"Laa lilaha illallah"
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This is what is hampering you to understand a straight forward simple thing. Which word of the verse makes you think that there are munafiqeen amongst the People of Book who do not claim or pronounce that they have believed in Qur'aan and the Messemger? They are called Kaafir not Munifiqeen.
People of the Book that do not claim or pronounce they believe in Quran and the Messenger are kafr?????? Please tell me where you get that from.
Also still waiting for an English word that you think best describes Munafiq other than hypocrite, thank you.
There is no word in the Arabic text which makes me think this, it is the meaning of the word Hypocrite/Munafiq which makes me think this and to me its obvious.
if I say I believe something then turn round and tell someone else I dont or I dont comply with what that belief asks of me then I am a hypocrite. Nothing to do with religion or Allah but to do with the meaning of the word.
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People of the Book that do not claim or pronounce they believe in Quran and the Messenger are kafr??? Please tell me where you get that from.
Thanks you confirmed my understanding that you did not give thought to what I said. It is even mentioned in the verse quoted earlier, Kafir are those who did the act of Kafaroo.
Have you not seen/given a thought towards those who have transformed themselves as deceivers and nurturers of malice
they say to their brothers from amongst the People of Book who have publicly refused to accept/believe ,
Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity from the People of Book who do not accept/believe.
Chapter 59 Verse 11
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Thanks you confirmed my understanding that you did not give thought to what I said. It is even mentioned in the verse quoted earlier, Kafir are those who did the act of Kafaroo.
Have you not seen/given a thought towards those who have transformed themselves as deceivers and nurturers of malice
they say to their brothers from amongst the People of Book who have publicly refused to accept/believe ,
Munafiqeen have distinct and specific identity from the People of Book who do not accept/believe.
Chapter 59 Verse 11
decerebrated? they have removed thier own brain? ???
You didnt find another English word rather than hypocrite for Munafiq?
Mazhar I have to leave this conversation as there is no point arguing with someone about a language he doesnt understand enough to translate another language he doesnt understand enough into the first one. If you insist that Munafiq are ONLY these people
"The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah. And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir. "
As you are arguing with your own biased and very odd translation/tafsir of the Words of God, which I do not believe are a true translation, then we are not going to get any further in this. -
I wasnt refering to court regarding the signature, I thought at first that using that would make it easier to understand, obviously it didnt. ;D I suppose it was using the word 'evidence' that make you think court again.
The question asked by AK85 was "First of all, when they say "We bear witness" can it not be said (I'm seriously asking for some feedback and perhaps constructive criticism on the following) they are hypocrites because they are not actually bearing witness? Are they in the prophet pbuh's head and witnessing the revelation? They are only witnessing it through him uttering the revelation, not through directly witnessing the message being delivered"
So on that basis anyone here that has said la illaha illallah is also a hypocrite as we have not seen God, we have not 'Witnessed' God in person. the testimony of I bear witness that there is No God But God is based on what we see as evidence in His Words but not with everyone. I fully believe and testify that there is no God but God the Creator of the Universe and everything in it because of the proof I see of it every day. I have not seen God but I will testify there is one and that testimony does not have to be related to a court of law.
Now back to my dads signature. If someone came to me with a paper and said 'is this your dad's signature' and I said 'yes it is' then I am witnessing/testifying that as far as I believe that is my dad's signature. I do not have to have seen him sign that particular document.
Yes, because you know what your dad's signature is. It doesn't matter if someone else signed it and copied your dad's signature, it is your dad's unique signature which was copied and which you recognize.
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that is an eye witness, they witnessed with an 'object' of thier witnessing. ie the murder.
yes they can bear witness without even seeing the person, just by reading the symptoms written by someone else.
They bear witness that they BELIEVE him to be based on the evidence they have been given, as the shrink in the murder trial above.As I said, you can bear witness to someones signature even if you were not there to witness the signature but based on evidence given, like if someone gave me a document with my dad's signature on it even though I didnt see him sign it I can testify that is his signature.
I bear witness/I testify/ I BELIEVE
It doesn't matter if they witnessed it with their eyes, or they overheard the murderer admitting it, they witnessed it in a manner (by either seeing it, or by hearing him say he did it, or by watching him dispose of the murder weapon, bring any example you like,) that proved to them beyond doubt that he committed the murder.
Do you know of anyone who witnessed beyond doubt with personal presence and perception that the Prophet pbuh was the Messenger of The God?
Based on the evidence they were given they believed that he was The Messenger of The God? What evidence? I am not talking about evidence in regards to the enlightening contents of the Qu'ran, I am talking about direct evidence that the Prophet received revelations from The God.
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The basic "qualification" of Muna'fi'qoon is that
(1)they are the claimaints of belief/faith in Allah and the Last Day
(2) and that Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is the Messenger of Allah.
(3)And they make a public declaration about it before/in the society of Believers. Hence they are considered, treated and identified distintly from the idolators and Kaafir.
Now read this carefully, to know how Qur'aan defines and describes the Muna'fi'qeen
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08a.gif
And amongst the particular (in those days, Jew) people, there are those who say, claiming
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08b.gif
"We have accepted the belief in Allah and the Last Day".
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08c.gif
And the fact is that they are certainly not the believers.http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1p.gif
When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad they orally said,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1q.gif
"We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.09a.gif
They perceive as if they deceive Allah
And when they confront the ones who have believed, they say to them, "We have accepted/believed";
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.14c.gif
but when they were in privacy with their evil ones, they said to them clarifying;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.14d.gif
"We are certainly with you people; with them we only jest".Chapter 2 Verses 8-20
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It doesn't matter if they witnessed it with their eyes, or they overheard the murderer admitting it, they witnessed it in a manner (by either seeing it, or by hearing him say he did it, or by watching him dispose of the murder weapon, bring any example you like,) that proved to them beyond doubt that he committed the murder.
Do you know of anyone who witnessed beyond doubt with personal presence and perception that the Prophet pbuh was the Messenger of The God?
I may be old, but im not that old. ;DBased on the evidence they were given they believed that he was The Messenger of The God? What evidence? I am not talking about evidence in regards to the enlightening contents of the Qu'ran, I am talking about direct evidence that the Prophet received revelations from The God.
What evidence? A mortal man with little to no education suddenly starts reciting words like Quran, that is evidence enough for me and evidence enough for those that believe. Where do you think it came from if not from God?
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I am talking about direct evidence that the Prophet received revelations from The God.
The nature of asking this sort of evidence is explained
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.118d.gif
And those who do not have the knowledge said; "Why Allah does not talk to us or why any Ayah does not come to us".Chapter 2 Verse 118
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/038.%20Suad/038.%20S2.gif
What is this! has the Reminder/Admonition sent to him from amongst us all?"Chapter 38 verse 8
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Now read this carefully, to know how Qur'aan defines and describes the Muna'fi'qeen
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08a.gif
And amongst the particular (in those days, Jew) people, there are those who say, claiming
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08b.gif
"We have accepted the belief in Allah and the Last Day".
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.08c.gif
And the fact is that they are certainly not the believers.Firstly you have added words to Gods. The verse you wrote first says 'amongst the people', it does not say particular or Jews. These people have said they believe in Allah and the Last Day, they have NOT said they believe that Muhammed is the messenger and you have said they are Munafiq, which is what I have been saying all along, then you have said they are not. You have used the word hypocrite and the word munafiq, which are the same and you still have not found another English word to tell me what is Munafiq according to your translations or what the difference between Munafiq and hypocrite is according to your translations.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1p.gif
When the Muna'fi'qoon had come to you, the Messenger Muhammad they orally said,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/063.%20Al%20Munafiqoon/63.1q.gif
"We bear witness that indeed you are certainly the Messenger of Allah"it means to say, they said, he said, will say. did say. These people came TO Muhammed and said TO him.
verse 631 does NOT contain "the Messenger Muhammad " It says 'came to YOU'.So you are saying that those who said they believe in Allah and the last day but Allah knows they are liars are NOT hypocrite/munafiq but those that say they believe in the messenger of Allah but Allah says they are liars ARE hypocrites/munafiq? ???
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.09a.gif
They perceive as if they deceive Allah
And when they confront the ones who have believed, they say to them, "We have accepted/believed";
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.14c.gif
but when they were in privacy with their evil ones, they said to them clarifying;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.14d.gif
"We are certainly with you people; with them we only jest".Chapter 2 Verses 8-20
the bright orange is from me. The Jews were hypocrites/munafiq long before Muhammed was born.
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Peace Mazhar, the Quran is given in such a way that one has to use ones own brain to think about what it says to each individual person, thats why it often says 'for men of understanding', do you think it is only for men or can women also understand it?
Allah instructed Muhammed to recite it word for word as it was given, He did not tell him the words then tell him to go and give it to the people in his own words from his own mind and understanding of it. By adding Muhammed where Allah did not add Muhammed is wrong in my opinion, because that is not what Allah said. By adding Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam you make it look to the reader that does not know Quran that this is what Allah said, He did not and never anywhere did He add those words in Quran. Praise it due for Allah alone.
When you add your own understanding to a verse you make the reader take on your understanding, which may or may not be the right understanding for them. You are doing exactly what M. Muhsin Khan translation does and what Tafsir ibn Kathir does in manipulating the mind of the reader.
For a none Arabic speaker their first introduction to Quran in thier own language is the one which will stick and form their opinions of Islam and Allah and Muhammed. This will be the grounding as to whether they go on and learn or dump the whole idea there and then. To have a translation that adds Muhammeds name and praises where Allah did not will not give the clear picture of the book that Allah intended. Any translation should be as absolutely as close to the word for word Arabic as possible so that inshaAllah the new reader will grasp the meaning enough to want to search the Arabic for themselves. I know well enough that 'to you' in this verse means to Muhammed because I have read other translations and the Arabic, thats how I know that 'Muhammed Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam' is not there, a new reader would not.
I applaud your efforts and your time spent on translating Quran, but you have added to it your own understanding. We all have our own and very different understanding of the words depending on our own views, education, reading, life, etc. We all put a different view on how we see the meaning of the words of Allah as is clear from this forum and also based on how long we have been looking and how we have been educated in Islam and Quran. In a forum and in discussion thats fine to bounce our own ideas around between each other, but to actually add that understanding to the words of Allah is not and in looking through your site i have found many times you have done this. For instance, how did the blind man from chapter 80 suddenly get to chapter 74? The one that looked around and scowled in 74 is not Muhammed but you have made that Muhammed by adding the blind man and giving reference to 801. Another is hell, the word may be of feminine gender but it is not a female. You have hell as 'her with 19 males upon her', that is not what it says.
I am sorry if this offends you and I am sorry that the topic has gone off course, but its something that has kept me awake so i have to say it!
I will stop now, I could go on.
peace
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Allah instructed Muhammed to recite it word for word as it was given, He did not tell him the words then tell him to go and give it to the people in his own words from his own mind and understanding of it. By adding Muhammed where Allah did not add Muhammed is wrong in my opinion, because that is not what Allah said. By adding Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam you make it look to the reader that does not know Quran that this is what Allah said, He did not and never anywhere did He add those words in Quran. Praise it due for Allah alone.
.A person who begins reading Grand Qur'aan is not aware of all the contents of Qur'aan. And the scheme of the text of Qur'aan is such that it is self explanatory of its words and concepts which can be perceived if the whole Book is read with full concentration of mind. For the information of the Reader only such matter can be placed in the Parentheses, for quick grasp, which is mentioned somewhere in the Qur'aan. Anything in the Parentheses which is not mentioned somewhere else would be the personal thought of the person putting it there.
A common Muslim who has no bias but respect and reverence for the Messengers of Allah will understand what Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam and Alahissalam mean. It is NOT added by me but is stated in Qur'aan
Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is said and mentioned in the Parentheses in compliance to this Command
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It is certain that Allah and His Angels send blessings upon the Distinctly Elevated and Chosen Onehttp//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.104a.gif
O you who declare to have accepted listen this imperative,
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you people incline upon him with love and praising praying Allah for sending blessings, and you people submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner. who refused to show obeisance to Adam whom Allah granted distinction and honour].http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/33.57.gif
It is certain that for them is the curse and condemnation in this worldly life and the Hereafter who talk unpleasant vain things about Allah and His MessengerChapter 33
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recite it word for word as it was given
You will NOT find this in any translation, except mine, since the Arabic word has exact this meaning and connotation.
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And you, the Messenger convey them word by word from the Book/Grand Qur'aan of your Sustainer which has since been communicated to you.Chapter 18 Verse 27
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By adding Muhammed where Allah did not add Muhammed is wrong in my opinion, because that is not what Allah said.
"Ka" is a Pronoun, referring to a particular Man who is being directly addressed. While translating one has to mention who this man is to convey the true translation of the Arabic sentence. When one translates it as "you" without referring to who this "you" is, the sentence will become vague. In English a feminine is also "you", but not in Arabic.
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I am sorry if this offends you and I am sorry that the topic has gone off course, but its something that has kept me awake so i have to say it!
I will stop now, I could go on.
Don't worry, it does not offend me. I will be obliged if you go on like you have pointed out some above. It will help me to review where something wrong has been inserted either straight or in parentheses which is not mentioned in Quraan or is not in that context. I will also explain where I find that I have not conveyed in a manner that the receipient gets the same perception that I have in mind. Pl go on.
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For instance, how did the blind man from chapter 80 suddenly get to chapter 74? The one that looked around and scowled in 74 is not Muhammed but you have made that Muhammed by adding the blind man and giving reference to 801.
There seems to be some confusion. What I have said at both the two points is that the doer/subject of the verb "Abasa" is that rich notable who was in the presence of the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam. Other translators take the hidden pronoun of third person, masculine, singular in the verb "Abasa" of 8001 as the Messenger Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam, under the influence of oft repeated tradition that the blind man made shouts for seeking attention while the Messenger was in the company of leading elite . But they all erred by ignoring the fact that the verb "Abasa" can happen only on seeing and not listening. Grand Qur'aan narrates an episode and keep giving its updates later.
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Another is hell, the word may be of feminine gender but it is not a female. You have hell as 'her with 19 males upon her', that is not what it says.
We recognize gender of a thing by seeing certain signs. We also assign gender to non living things. "Male pin"; female pin/socket etc. The creator of a thing is the best judge to inform about the gender of a thing. At some place we find the gender of a particular cloud as masculine, and today we know it is masculine since it is positively charged. The Creator of Hell is also the Author of the Book. When He calls it feminine, who am I to change its gender?
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I may be old, but im not that old. ;D
What evidence? A mortal man with little to no education suddenly starts reciting words like Quran, that is evidence enough for me and evidence enough for those that believe. Where do you think it came from if not from God?He came into contact with Christians and Jews did he not? He was a trader, who lived in a city which came into contact with many peoples from different places. This is why people say oh he just plagiarized from the other two religions, after learning about them from people he encountered.
Are you implying that I don't believe now?
The evidence for me is not the fact that he recited the Qu'ran, the evidence for me is in the enlightening Message in the Qu'ran.
If you really want to get into those who believe and those who don't believe though, please go and answer the other replies of mine to you in other threads, like the one about 53 and why you rely on the old testament for what food is and isn't forbidden, when the Qu'ran is a clear explanation for everything and why you believe relying on alcohol is ok for social occasions because some people are not self destructive alcoholics.
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He came into contact with Christians and Jews did he not? He was a trader, who lived in a city which came into contact with many peoples from different situations. This is why people say oh he just plagiarized from the other two religions.
Are you implying that I don't believe now?
The evidence for me is not the fact that he recited the Qu'ran, the evidence for me is in the enlightening Message in the Qu'ran.
If you really want to get into those who believe and those who don't believe though, please go and answer the other replies of mine to you in other threads, like the one about 53 and why you rely on the old testament for what food is and isn't forbidden, when the Qu'ran is a clear explanation for everything and why you believe relying on alcohol is ok for social occasions because some people are not self destructive alcoholics.
your own definitions that you bolded for emphasis drew clear links between witnessing and testifying. A person is not a credible witness if their testimony is not backed up by clear evidence. You are asked to testify to the depiction of your dad's signature because you have witnessed his signature. This is why NO ONE INCLUDING THOSE WHO TESTIFY HE IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD OR THOSE WHO DO NOT ADD THIS BASELESS TESTIMONY ARE CLEAR WITNESSES TO THE PROPHET BEING THE MESSENGER OF GOD. YOU WERE NOT IN HIS BRAIN TO WITNESS THE MESSAGE BEING DELIVERED AND NEITHER WAS I. WE WITNESS THAT HE IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD BY FOLLOWING THE QU'RAN HE WAS GIVEN TO RECITE FOR US.
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Peace Mazhar, the Quran is given in such a way that one has to use ones own brain to think about what it says to each individual person, thats why it often says 'for men of understanding', do you think it is only for men or can women also understand it?
Allah instructed Muhammed to recite it word for word as it was given, He did not tell him the words then tell him to go and give it to the people in his own words from his own mind and understanding of it. By adding Muhammed where Allah did not add Muhammed is wrong in my opinion, because that is not what Allah said. By adding Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam you make it look to the reader that does not know Quran that this is what Allah said, He did not and never anywhere did He add those words in Quran. Praise it due for Allah alone.
When you add your own understanding to a verse you make the reader take on your understanding, which may or may not be the right understanding for them. You are doing exactly what M. Muhsin Khan translation does and what Tafsir ibn Kathir does in manipulating the mind of the reader.
For a none Arabic speaker their first introduction to Quran in thier own language is the one which will stick and form their opinions of Islam and Allah and Muhammed. This will be the grounding as to whether they go on and learn or dump the whole idea there and then. To have a translation that adds Muhammeds name and praises where Allah did not will not give the clear picture of the book that Allah intended. Any translation should be as absolutely as close to the word for word Arabic as possible so that inshaAllah the new reader will grasp the meaning enough to want to search the Arabic for themselves. I know well enough that 'to you' in this verse means to Muhammed because I have read other translations and the Arabic, thats how I know that 'Muhammed Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam' is not there, a new reader would not.
I applaud your efforts and your time spent on translating Quran, but you have added to it your own understanding. We all have our own and very different understanding of the words depending on our own views, education, reading, life, etc. We all put a different view on how we see the meaning of the words of Allah as is clear from this forum and also based on how long we have been looking and how we have been educated in Islam and Quran. In a forum and in discussion thats fine to bounce our own ideas around between each other, but to actually add that understanding to the words of Allah is not and in looking through your site i have found many times you have done this. For instance, how did the blind man from chapter 80 suddenly get to chapter 74? The one that looked around and scowled in 74 is not Muhammed but you have made that Muhammed by adding the blind man and giving reference to 801. Another is hell, the word may be of feminine gender but it is not a female. You have hell as 'her with 19 males upon her', that is not what it says.
I am sorry if this offends you and I am sorry that the topic has gone off course, but its something that has kept me awake so i have to say it!
I will stop now, I could go on.
peace
You have added your own understanding as well by relying on the old testament for advice. You are not Jewish to my knowledge, you do not need the old testament.