"Laa lilaha illallah"
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"It is a statement", you said. Yes, but is a very wrong one. Below you'll find the last part of the following link in which I've tried to explain why Muslims have problem with the "STATEMENTS" like the above.
Peace,
Khalilhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598886.msg249923#msg249923
The point is that Muslims have no quarrels with the sectarians other than saying that the religion MUST be about the worship of GOD Alone. All we are saying to them is to stop idolizing the prophets and worship GOD only. We are saying that the Shahaadah must be all about GOD Alone. We are saying to them not to mention any other name in their prayers except GOD. We are saying to them not to call upon anyone else in their call to prayer/ADZAN, but GOD. We are saying not to implore anyone in your DU?AA?, but GOD. We are saying to them The Qur?aan is the ONLY source of religious guidance; do not use any other source like hadith, sunnah, rawaaya, and? alongside with The Qur?aan. We are telling them that there is only one SACRED mosque and that is the one in the city of Mecca with the KA?BAH right in the middle of its courtyard. We are saying to them that the months of performing HAJJ pilgrimage are the four consecutive sacred/HARAAM months. We are asking them to restore those FOUR months back; to minimize the hardship on the people trying to perform their GOD prescribed HAJJ pilgrimage. And finally, we are telling them not to make unlawful what GOD has not made unlawful and vice versa. We are not declaring anything new. We are just propagating the practice of the faith according to The Qur?aan Alone. We are telling them to reform and repent and come back to The Qur?aan. That?s all. No reinvention at all.
Apparently it sounds quite reasonabe and sound, and adding of this sentence is to give srength to other things stated therein. But in depth reflects the mind of all those elite members and so called pseudo intellectuals and modernists of the society whose main satand was against the person of Messenger. It is correct that it is "No reinvention", it is same old story of elite pagans.
is a statement as true and visible as the presence of Sun on the sky. Acceptance of either part of the statement and denying other part of the statement will lead straight to the Hell-Fire. Paradise is NOT prepared for those who do not accept and their abode is Hell-Prison. This is not my verdict, this is the Verdict of Allah written in plain and simple words in Grand Qur'aan.
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Apparently it sounds quite reasonabe and sound, and adding of this sentence is to give srength to other things stated therein. But in depth reflects the mind of all those elite members and so called pseudo intellectuals and modernists of the society whose main satand was against the person of Messenger. It is correct that it is "No reinvention", it is same old story of elite pagans.
is a statement as true and visible as the presence of Sun on the sky. Acceptance of either part of the statement and denying other part of the statement will lead straight to the Hell-Fire. Paradise is NOT prepared for those who do not accept and their abode is Hell-Prison. This is not my verdict, this is the Verdict of Allah written in plain and simple words in Grand Qur'aan.
using this as shahada, which sunni muslims insist on, is NOT the shahada of Allah. Allah asks we believe in Him and ALL messengers and make no distinction among any of them, so why does this statement about 1 messenger become so important and not making it lead to hell fire?
NOT saying it is not denying it, it is not adding to a statement/declaration of faith where saying it ALONGSIDE a declaration of Allah is the ONE GOD adds 1 messenger to the same height as that One God.
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is a statement as true and visible as the presence of Sun on the sky. Acceptance of either part of the statement and denying other part of the statement will lead straight to the Hell-Fire. Paradise is NOT prepared for those who do not accept and their abode is Hell-Prison. This is not my verdict, this is the Verdict of Allah written in plain and simple words in Grand Qur'aan.
Please show the verse where it says you have to say both parts of this statement or end in hell fire.
If NOT saying it means you dont accept it, then saying it about 1 messenger only means you do not accept the rest, according to that logic.
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Please show the verse where it says you have to say both parts of this statement or end in hell fire.
If NOT saying it means you dont accept it, then saying it about 1 messenger only means you do not accept the rest, according to that logic.
There is something called angle distortion. When we see things from only one angle, we do not know about the thing except its one angle, and if we start perceiving as if we have seen the whole thing, there we are lost.
We live in time and space. Till the arrival of the Last Messenger and Qur'aan, the people were placed under a Bond/Pledge to accept and believe in the Messengers who were to come in future. It kept continuing till Easa alahissalam who made it public that after him, there shall be one Messenger. The Last Messenger came and affirmed/certified that Books and Messengers were sent earlier also and asked to believe in all the Messengers of Allah who were sent before him in time and space. So we believe in the word conveyed by the Last Messenger. Now Order and sequence is this
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And Mutta'qeena are those, who accept/believe in that which has since been sent to you, the Messenger Muhammad and they also accept/believe that which was sent/revealed by Allah in the times before you .http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136m.gif
You people say "We believe in Allah, and in that/Grand Qur'aan which has since sent to us,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136n.gif
and what was sent to Iebra'heim, and Iesma'eile, and Ies'hauq; and Ya'qoob and upon his progeny;...............Chapter 2
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There is something called angle distortion. When we see things from only one angle, we do not know about the thing except its one angle, and if we start perceiving as if we have seen the whole thing, there we are lost.
Yes, but I dont see how this applies here.We live in time and space. Till the arrival of the Last Messenger and Qur'aan, the people were placed under a Bond/Pledge to accept and believe in the Messengers who were to come in future.
The Prophets were placed under a covenant to do this.
It kept continuing till Easa alahissalam who made it public that after him, there shall be one Messenger. The Last Messenger came and affirmed/certified that Books and Messengers were sent earlier also and asked to believe in all the Messengers of Allah who were sent before him in time and space. So we believe in the word conveyed by the Last Messenger. Now Order and sequence is this
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And Mutta'qeena are those, who accept/believe in that which has since been sent to you, the Messenger Muhammad and they also accept/believe that which was sent/revealed by Allah in the times before you .http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136m.gif
You people say "We believe in Allah, and in that/Grand Qur'aan which has since sent to us,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136n.gif
and what was sent to Iebra'heim, and Iesma'eile, and Ies'hauq; and Ya'qoob and upon his progeny;...............Chapter 2
These verses say nothing about making the statement adding Muhammed ALONE to it at all, they say that we believe in Allah and the messages he sent to those prophets. So again Allah is making no distinction among the messages or the prophets.
I do wish you would say the verse numbers you are quoting as the first verse leads one to assume its 548 but it isnt.
We are to believe in Allah as the ONE and ONLY God, ALL the messengers and ALL the messages. there is nothing in those verses that answers my question
"Please show the verse where it says you have to say both parts of this statement or end in hell fire."
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Mazhar, from what I can gather of your post you are assuming anyone coming into Islam, or declaring the statement there is No God but God, automatically comes from the people you think was given some bond to stick to in belief in all the prophets and messengers before Muhammed, that is not so.
You also seem to assume that a muslim has to declare his belief in Muhammed and no other prophet, that is not so either as Allah is very clear very much that we make no distinction among any of the prophets, like not raising one of them to a higher level than others because that one brought the final message.
It goes without saying that anyone who believes in the One God and believes in ALL His books sent with previous messages AND believes in Quran too, that they also believe Muhammed to also be a messenger of that One God. No statement is needed for that.
The MUSTS outlined in Quran are to believe there is no God but God, to believe in ALL His messengers and ALL His Books and the angels, nothing to say elevate THIS prophet above all others and add his name to Gods in any declaration of faith. and nothing to say if you dont add this one prophets name to Allahs then you go to hell.
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The crucial point involved you are missing, , this is what I said earlier "Now Order and sequence is this....". We in our statement go from present moment/revelation of Qur'aan back into the past time and space and not vice versa. When somebody makes this statement he confirms and states his belief in all that what is said only in Qur'aan which includes all Messengers, whether their names and episodes are mentioned therein or not mentioned therein, who were sent as Messengers of Allah in time and space, before Qur'aan.
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It goes without saying that anyone who believes in the One God and believes in ALL His books sent with previous messages AND believes in Quran too, that they also believe Muhammed to also be a messenger of that One God. No statement is needed for that.
Belief is not something to be kept in heart. It has to be in normal circumstances pronounced and demonstrated.
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The MUSTS outlined in Quran are to believe there is no God but God, to believe in ALL His messengers and ALL His Books and the angels, nothing to say elevate THIS prophet above all others and add his name to Gods in any declaration of faith. and nothing to say if you dont add this one prophets name to Allahs then you go to hell.
This is what seeing things from a particular and fixed angle distorts the concept. I had said this and not how you angled it.
Paradise is NOT prepared for those who do not accept and their abode is Hell-Prison. This is not my verdict, this is the Verdict of Allah written in plain and simple words in Grand Qur'aan
This is from the point in time onwards when it was pronounced by the revelation of Qur'aan. I reiterate it on authority of Qur'aan.
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When somebody makes this statement he confirms and states his belief in all that what is said only in Qur'aan which includes all Messengers, whether their names and episodes are mentioned therein or not mentioned therein, who were sent as Messengers of Allah in time and space, before Qur'aan.
Mazhar, this is your personal interpretation. I can see how it makes sense to you, but I have to agree with Ayisha.
Personally, I don't want to say the second part of the "shahada". To me it would mean putting Muhammad into a particular status and distinguishing between messengers. The mere fact of mentioning him all the time alongside with God is a distinction in my eyes. It just doesn't feel right to me.
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The crucial point involved you are missing, , this is what I said earlier "Now Order and sequence is this....".
You still didnt tell me which verse that is Mazhar. And order and sequence is your interpretation and understanding, which is not necessarily right or the same as mine or anyone elses. I am going from the Book, the Quran, and nothing in there tells me to make a statement regarding Muhammed ONLY and nothing in there says only take whats in Quran. Quran CONFIRMS those previous books are from AllahWe in our statement go from present moment/revelation of Qur'aan back into the past time and space and not vice versa.
And where does Quran say thats how you do it? Quran is clear that it is the final PART of the WHOLE message that was given over time by many prophets, it is ALL Al Quran, the message from Allah, not just the last Book. Quran also makes clear that we make no distinction among any prophets or messengers, so mentioning the name of 1 only DOES make a distinction. Quran is also clear the FATHER of Islam is Abraham, not Muhammed, so why not mention him?
When somebody makes this statement he confirms and states his belief in all that what is said only in Qur'aan which includes all Messengers, whether their names and episodes are mentioned therein or not mentioned therein, who were sent as Messengers of Allah in time and space, before Qur'aan.
Well I follow Quran so therefore I cant make a statement saying I believe ONLY in Quran as Quran is quite clear I am to believe in ALL the Books and ALL the messengers. Also, how does naming 1 messenger only declare belief in all? Why not say ALL, why elevate just one which is what you are doing.
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Perhaps I have not been able to convey the point which is otherwise very simple and apparent, or may be you have not exerted effort to get to the point.
We live in time and space. And hence have to see and understand everything with reference to time and space, otherwise everything will be just vague and abstract perception.
There is a point in time when a human being named Muhammad pronounced that he is the Messenger of Allah and would have recited to them a couple of verses, and not the whole Qur'aan since it was to be revealed gradually.
And in that space, as is evident from the Qur'aan, there were three type of people who were told this announcement.
Firstly his own clan, majority of who were Polytheists who considered some other hypothetically named deities as ileha in addition and apart from Allah. They did not recognize or believe in Musa and Easa alahimssalam as Messengers of Allah, though they had the company of such people who believed in them as Messengers of Allah and the Books of Allah before Toraat..Secondly Jews, who believed in Musa alahissalam and Messengers before him but did not recognize/believe in Easa alahissalam as Messenger of Allah and in the Book Injeel.
Thirdly, the Christians, who believed in Easa alahissalam and all the Messengers of Allah backwards, and believed in Injeel and all the Books of Allah before it.
What was imperatively demanded/commanded from/to people
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif
O you the Mankind,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170c.gif
Indeed The Messenger has come to you people, the whole humanity, with the Statement of Fact from your Sustainer Lord.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170d.gif
Therefore you people accept/believe, this is better course for you people.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.131b.gif
And if you people refuse to accept Refer 4170http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif
"Listen O you the Mankind;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158b.gif
I am the Messenger of Allah towards you people all collectively;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158c.gif
Messenger of the One for Him is the Dominion and Sovereignty of the Skies and the Earth;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158g.gif
There is no such reality as lord/deity/iela'aha except Him alone.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158h.gif
He gives life and causes to die".
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158e.gif
For reason therefore you people believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Elevated and Chosen Servant of Allah from the people whom book was not given earlier, who believes in Allah and His words ,http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158f.gif
and you people physically follow him, there being no third party in between, so that you people get guided . 7158Now anybody who makes a statement in public to this extent alone it does not become apparent to the listener whether or not he believes in all the Messengers. And the moment he declares and makes this statement also he makes it evident that he believes in all the Messengers.
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Perhaps I have not been able to convey the point which is otherwise very simple and apparent, or may be you have not exerted effort to get to the point.
We live in time and space. And hence have to see and understand everything with reference to time and space, otherwise everything will be just vague and abstract perception.
There is a point in time when a human being named Muhammad pronounced that he is the Messenger of Allah and would have recited to them a couple of verses, and not the whole Qur'aan since it was to be revealed gradually.
And in that space, as is evident from the Qur'aan, there were three type of people who were told this announcement.
Firstly his own clan, majority of who were Polytheists who considered some other hypothetically named deities as ileha in addition and apart from Allah. They did not recognize or believe in Musa and Easa alahimssalam as Messengers of Allah, though they had the company of such people who believed in them as Messengers of Allah and the Books of Allah before Toraat..Secondly Jews, who believed in Musa alahissalam and Messengers before him but did not recognize/believe in Easa alahissalam as Messenger of Allah and in the Book Injeel.
Thirdly, the Christians, who believed in Easa alahissalam and all the Messengers of Allah backwards, and believed in Injeel and all the Books of Allah before it.
What was imperatively demanded/commanded from/to people
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif
O you the Mankind,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170c.gif
Indeed The Messenger has come to you people, the whole humanity, with the Statement of Fact from your Sustainer Lord.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170d.gif
Therefore you people accept/believe, this is better course for you people.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.131b.gif
And if you people refuse to accept Refer 4170http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158.gif
You, the Messenger pronounce;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif
"Listen O you the Mankind;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158b.gif
I am the Messenger of Allah towards you people all collectively;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158c.gif
Messenger of the One for Him is the Dominion and Sovereignty of the Skies and the Earth;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158g.gif
There is no such reality as lord/deity/iela'aha except Him alone.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158h.gif
He gives life and causes to die".
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158e.gif
For reason therefore you people believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Elevated and Chosen Servant of Allah from the people whom book was not given earlier, who believes in Allah and His words ,http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.158f.gif
and you people physically follow him, there being no third party in between, so that you people get guided . 7158Now anybody who makes a statement in public to this extent alone it does not become apparent to the listener whether or not he believes in all the Messengers. And the moment he declares and makes this statement also he makes it evident that he believes in all the Messengers.
Where do the words I made bold come from?
It does not say 'physically follow' in there and it doesnt mean follow the messenger. I says believe in Allah and His words and follow, meaning the Words of Allah, not the messenger.
God also says that those who follow the Jewish books and the Gospel will have nothing to fear, so again your elevating 1 messenger above the rest is wrong.
Anyone who is the listener to any statement saying there is no God but God can think what they like as to weather you're a sunni or not and shouldnt really be bothering with whether you utter the sunni shahada, if you say there is no God but God that is enough, or should be! Its enough for Allah.
The FOLLOWING most people get confused about is because they are trying to follow a messenger and not taking into account what it was he was following. We are told to follow ALLAHS WORDS which is what ALL prophets and messengers followed. Follow the messengers IN WHAT THEY FOLLOWED which was the Words of Allah. It has nothing to do with physically following or we should all be dead, because thats where the last messenger is!
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It does not say 'physically follow' in there and it doesnt mean follow the messenger. I says believe in Allah and His words and follow, meaning the Words of Allah, not the messenger.
Here lies the problem when one does not care to see the gender of the pronouns used in Qur'aan. "Hu" is used only for one masculine and not for Kalemaat which is feminine plural. One has to follow the Messenger mentioned therein which does not mean following sunni or hadith literature. It means following what he stated, i.e Qur'aan which is also referred as "his qaul".
Anyone who is the listener to any statement saying there is no God but God can think what they like as to weather you're a sunni or not and shouldnt really be bothering with whether you utter the sunni shahada, if you say there is no God but God that is enough, or should be! Its enough for Allah.
It is a matter of common sense that no judge can adjudge on the basis of his personal knowledge. A judge has to to adjudge and convict on the basis of evidence and testimony. Allah will also not judge people and convict them on the basis of His Personal Knowledge. Merely saying "there is no God but God" will not suffice to take someone to Paradise. This is a misconceived notion and understanding. Minimum requirement to become entitled to join the race for Paradise is to Believe in Allah and His Messengers.
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Here lies the problem when one does not care to see the gender of the pronouns used in Qur'aan. "Hu" is used only for one masculine and not for Kalemaat which is feminine plural. One has to follow the Messenger mentioned therein which does not mean following sunni or hadith literature. It means following what he stated, i.e Qur'aan which is also referred as "his qaul".
Thats what I have been saying!
It is a matter of common sense that no judge can adjudge on the basis of his personal knowledge. A judge has to to adjudge and convict on the basis of evidence and testimony. Allah will also not judge people and convict them on the basis of His Personal Knowledge.
The discussion wasnt about judges or judging. You said 'the listener' to the statement made in public of 'there is no God but God' without adding Muhammed is the messenger of God, it wouldnt be apparent 'to the listener' that the one making the statement believes in all the messengers, I am saying its not his business! Allah doesnt need to hear it, he KNOWS whats in the hearts of all of us, anyone else doesn't concern me. And yes Allah WILL Judge on his knowledge of us, not on what someone who heard us say something tells Him!Merely saying "there is no God but God" will not suffice to take someone to Paradise. This is a misconceived notion and understanding. Minimum requirement to become entitled to join the race for Paradise is to Believe in Allah and His Messengers.
And as I said, who on this earth is going to give surety ANY of us are going to heaven whether we say it a thousand times a day? No one. Its up to Allah, and Allah KNOWS this without it being said, anyone else I am not concerned with whether they believe I believe in all messengers or not, Allah KNOWS and thats all that counts to me. I dont do and say things for humans to decide whether I believe or not.
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Ayesha, what you said is mere presumption and is for reason of not caring as to what means the system of justice. None can and is rewarded or punished on the basis of that which is in his chest. It has to be reflected by statement and acts to become eligible and liable for reward and punishment.
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Here lies the problem when one does not care to see the gender of the pronouns used in Qur'aan. "Hu" is used only for one masculine and not for Kalemaat which is feminine plural. One has to follow the Messenger mentioned therein which does not mean following sunni or hadith literature. It means following what he stated, i.e Qur'aan which is also referred as "his qaul".
if kalemaat was referring to HIS then it would still have hu.
wa-alladhna - And those who
man - believe
waamil - and do
l-liti - righteous deeds,
waman - and believe
bim - in what
nuzzila - is revealed
al - to
muammadin - Muhammad,
wahuwa - and it
l-aqu - (is) the truth
min - from
rabbihim - their Lord,
kaffara - He will remove
anhum - from them
sayyitihim - their misdeeds,
wa-alaa - and improve
blahum - their condition.This is saying to believe in His revelation that was revealed to Muhammed and to follow IT, not him.
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Ayesha, what you said is mere presumption and is for reason of not caring as to what means the system of justice. None can and is rewarded or punished on the basis of that which is in his chest. It has to be reflected by statement and acts to become eligible and liable for reward and punishment.
Mazhar, what you are saying is based on presumtion, what I am saying is based on what Quran says and the system of Justice of Allah.
There is nothing in these verses that says one has to declare publicly any belief in Muhammed. In fact it is saying those who follow thier own books given from Allah will have their reward and not grieve.
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YUSUFALI Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.005.069
YUSUFALI Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.The whole Quran is telling you to follow the Message IN IT.
What about those who claim publicly that they believe but secretly turn away, Allah KNOWS who they are, do you think because they publicly declared they believe they are ok?