adhan or azaan how to do it properly?
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o Now you are saying bow down to him?
Mazhar let me explain where I am coming from just so you understand better.
ALL my life I have believed in 'a higher source' a 'higher power' based on nature and the things around us, it has always awed me from a very early age. When I first saw things from the hubble space thingy I was truely gobsmacked, these are the things that show me every day that there IS a creator and he is way more clever than we can ever possibly comprehend. That is who I bow down to and give my self to wholely.
I learnt about Jesus and Moses etc, and God in school and at home and I assumed we were Christians because I believed in a MAN called Jesus, I was young then. My mum knew the Bible back to front and she is the one that told me that he was not the son as in begotten son but as in the way we are all children of God, His creation, but that people had changed the message, or left the message, that was given by God as they 'upgraded' Jesus to a son of god or some sects 'upgraded' him to God in the flesh and the church split.
I have read extensively and certainly in the past 8 years of being a Muslim, as Islam I believe is the natural 'evolution' of the other 2 Abrahamic religions, I have read more on all Abrahamic religions and for me it is clear as crystal how people have changed and upgraded messengers and/or prophets in line with their own agendas as was done in 325ad council of nicea where the 'trinity' was born and Jesus became 'god' and how the Jews also added to God's words to include the rabbanical laws and hadith. The words ARE there but the people's 'concept' of them is distorted.
Now because i have been there before and seen how people change things and add things so they have a person, an idol, to worship because they cannot grasp the concept of God and I will fight tooth and nail for it not to happen again with Islam as this is the last warning and it shows clearly what was done, who did it and how they did it and those that revere the prophet yet again after all the warnings are only going down the very same road as those before.
Having said all that I LOVE and respect prophet Muhammed and I LOVE and respect all other prophets of God equally, I will not distinguish between any of them and I will not bow down to them, I will not worship them and I will keep looking at the message itself and not be thrown off course because I need a person to direct my worship towards.My worship is for Allah Alone, no one else, and if any of the prophets were here now I would be the first in line to wash their feet because of who they are, not because I will worship them!
I do not get itchy or have any problems with Muhammed being a prophet of God but I do cringe when I hear that people are doing exactly the same with him as they did with Jesus. The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
Well said. I guess some people are still stuck idolizing messengers. But they aren't alone you have many forms of idolization i.e. money being the biggest, ego, children. So it is easy to fall prey to it but thats why we have the reminder from The God peace
PEACE
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I know doomed are they, unless repent and become respectful and pay him salutations with heads down.
Now you are saying bow down to him?
This is how you look at things? When you enter into the Superior Court, you pay respects by moving your head downwards, and the men in Uniform salute irrespective of the rank he is putting on his shoulders? Are they worshiping the Judge or Jury by doing this? And same is done whenever people call on the dignitory. The problem is that instead of looking at the command of Allah through Arabic words, people wish to gain lessons from the negative conduct of other people. The command is . The second word is telling you how to do the act of the first word/verb. Grand Qur'aan is precise and specific in its commands, leaving no room for anyone to adopt his own course of conduct.
The clergy of christians, for their self interests, to become the lords of people, deceptively elevated the Messenger of Allah by saying he is but Allah, and others said he is one of three, and others called him son of Allah. Remain on the middle path, neither elevate the Messenger to the level or partner of Allah and nor degrade him to the level of ordinary men. Both will make one doomed for ever.
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This is how you look at things? When you enter into the Superior Court, you pay respects by moving your head downwards, and the men in Uniform salute irrespective of the rank he is putting on his shoulders? Are they worshiping the Judge or Jury by doing this? And same is done whenever people call on the dignitory. The problem is that instead of looking at the command of Allah through Arabic words, people wish to gain lessons from the negative conduct of other people. The command is . The second word is telling you how to do the act of the first word/verb. Grand Qur'aan is precise and specific in its commands, leaving no room for anyone to adopt his own course of conduct.
Mazhar, the superior court is of people alive and in front of you at the time. The Uniformed men of 'higher rank' are there in front of you at the time. The Quran is telling those who are there at the time how to be in front of the messenger who is there at the time. If Muhammed was here now then yes my eyes would be lowered in RESPECT to who he was.The clergy of christians, for their self interests, to become the lords of people, deceptively elevated the Messenger of Allah by saying he is but Allah, and others said he is one of three, and others called him son of Allah. Remain on the middle path, neither elevate the Messenger to the level or partner of Allah and nor degrade him to the level of ordinary men. Both will make one doomed for ever.
He was a man, a human being like you and me, he was a messenger of God and yes that deserves respect and I do respect him for that along with all the other messengers of God, his job is done and he is gone leaving the message that he was given to deliver to us. According to Quran I cannot distinguish between any prophets, in fact they are now irrelevant as they are all gone leaving us with only the message they were given by God. The ONLY one still with us for all eternity is God and he is the ONLY one I will worship and adore. IF I was there at the time of the prophet then I would be taking notice of those verses as they would then apply to me being in his company. I am not and never will be in his company unless i am of the lucky ones when I die and then I will be in the company of ALL the prophets who I will respect all equally for their contribution in getting God's message to us.
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He was a man, a human being like you and me,
I will never equate like this, by reversing his statement. People read only first part of his words when he introduces himself, and people forget, as Iblees failed to notice or take care or pay respect to later part of the words of Allah, the later part of the statement of the Messenger . Allah never said pay obeisance to Bashr, but had said bow for Adam. Bashr was his earlier part, physical structure, and he bacame Adam when Allah had done another two acts. But Iblees kept arguing why should he bow before Bashr.
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I will never equate like this, by reversing his statement. People read only first part of his words when he introduces himself, and people forget, as Iblees failed to notice or take care or pay respect to later part of the words of Allah, the later part of the statement of the Messenger . Allah never said pay obeisance to Bashr, but had said bow for Adam. Bashr was his earlier part, physical structure, and he bacame Adam when Allah had done another two acts. But Iblees kept arguing why should he bow before Bashr.
sorry Mazhar I dont understand this. reversing whose statement? Whose words? Never heard of Bashr and if Allah told me to prostrate to Muhammed I would be prostrating, but prostration and worship is for Allah alone. Allah told all Angels to prostrate to His creation of man, (Adam) Iblis refused. At this time Adam was not on this earth and was cast here later after disobeying Allah.
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....At this time Adam was not on this earth and was cast here later after disobeying Allah.
Peace Ayisha,
Are you meaning that Adam just popped on this earth at some point in time from another univers? hypno Or that Adam somehow came down from the sky, using some device to defy gravity, in order to avoid crashing on the ground? confused
Sorry, I am just joking. These questions are only meant to make you think logically about this story of Adam and Iblis. You can use the search function on this forum for previous discussions on this subject for more views/opinions.
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You have to study history bro, it was not the same only few decades back, WORLD war 2 when did it ended? so it takes time, people learn.
But you did not answered why Allah expects peace and how can it be achieved? I mean to say can you give me an example how to follow rituals with reason?Yes, the western world worshipped money and looted the world at will and they paid the price for it, they learnt their lesson, I am sure the current Islamic world will also learn from their problems if God wills.
Following rituals with reason is easy if one seek God's guidance,the rituals Quran authorizes is because they benefit the society as a whole, the Salat, the Hajj the Fast etc. About Qibla Quran says east or west God is in all direction? but people hijacked those rituals saying they are done to please God and get his favour which is where the superstition starts. false hadeeths are the primary reasons for these kind of idol worshipping thoughts, i can give hundreds of examples of them. There are good examples of how Prophet lived but people do not think why he practiced those and simply want to copy him and think God favours them when doing such idol worshipping.
Allah expect peace?, otherwise theres no need for messengers, every messenger comes with the message of peace, read Quran you will get it. even read Hadeeths with reason you can find some of the true ones and there you can see Prophet's ways are indeed peacefull and he always choose the easiest and peacefull ways.
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Ayisha
The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
Princess
'nuff said. bravo
Prince
Well said
This again exposes the real agenda of "three stoogies".
Comparing the Messengers of Allah with Donkeys.Oh! you misguided lady, Allah has chosen Messengers out of Millions, and surely they were much much better people than we are, and Allah Praises them in his Message. SHAME ON YOU TO COMPARE HIS CHOSEN ONE'S WITH DONKEY"S AND SHAME ON THOSE WHO CLAP FOR THIS NON SENSE.
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amin
Yes, the western world worshipped money and looted the world at will and they paid the price for it, they learnt their lesson, I am sure the current Islamic world will also learn from their problems if God wills.
That is what I was saying.
Following rituals with reason is easy if one seek God's guidance,the rituals Quran authorizes is because they benefit the society as a whole, the Salat, the Hajj the Fast etc..
Therefore we have to follow Quran, and Quran does not change, but yoou said this
you want a medieval common law/rituals claiming that its authorized by God to be imposed on people, and go backwards thousands of years? without change theres no room for adaptation or there wont be peace
Quite a contradictory statements both? will you explain them?
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Peace Sis. Mazhar
Sorry to hijack this thread but Mazhar, do you have a website of your own where you rebuttal Quran-aloners? To be honest, even though I may have different views from you, I am intrigued on your knowledge on the matter and especially Arabic. Thanks.
Wa Salaam
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Ayisha The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
Princess 'nuff said. bravo
Prince Well said
This again exposes the real agenda of "three stoogies".
Comparing the Messengers of Allah with Donkeys.
And this again shows your inability to think or understand the English language which both Princess and Prince can. oh and its "stooges" no 'i'Oh! you misguided lady, Allah has chosen Messengers out of Millions, and surely they were much much better people than we are, and Allah Praises them in his Message. SHAME ON YOU TO COMPARE HIS CHOSEN ONE'S WITH DONKEY"S AND SHAME ON THOSE WHO CLAP FOR THIS NON SENSE.
If you read what I said, and had the capacity to understand what I said, you will see I was not comparing the prophet with a donkey, that is your twisted mind jumping on words and not looking at the whole thing in your blinded attempt to have just something else to add to your already full pocket of name calling directed at me. Of course this is nothing I didn't expect from you as this is your script in life.
If the message was sent through a Tree I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Cloud I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Mountain I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Martian I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Camel I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Woman I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a Baby I would still follow the message
If the message was sent through a River I would still follow the message
There you go Raj, you still wont get it but there is lots more for you to add and fester over, have fun.
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http//The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
A donkey seems to have got the capability of talking and writing.
Mazhar I am surprised at you, raj I expected his blindness to stop his understanding but not yours. I have not given the donkey any capabilities and the meaning of what i said is clear for a man of your intelligence to understand, so i thought. But
A woman was with child without the intervention of man
A man was formed from clay/mud - have you ever thought about how complex the human body is?
A baby in the cradle speak speaks to those around him and preaches God's words, that baby grows and performs miracles, cures the sick etc
The entire universe is formed and runs to a precise mathematical calculation, really check out the hubble website see whats up there
Everything in creation is formed and running to a precise mathematical calculation
yet you dont think He can make a donkey talk and write if He so willed the donkey to pass His message?
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Mazhar I am surprised at you, raj I expected his blindness to stop his understanding but not yours. I have not given the donkey any capabilities and the meaning of what i said is clear for a man of your intelligence to understand, so i thought. But
This was your quote? I thought Raaajah is saying this and hurriedly I put that without noticing that instead of insert quote I clicked the image button. Since I thought it was Raaajah quote, there was nothing except donkey in it. Offcourse, you would use it in a sentence to convey something else.
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This was your quote? I thought Raaajah is saying this and hurriedly I put that without noticing that instead of insert quote I clicked the image button. Since I thought it was Raaajah quote, there was nothing except donkey in it. Offcourse, you would use it in a sentence to convey something else.
Clears that up, thought it was odd ;D
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Peace Sis. Mazhar
Sorry to hijack this thread but Mazhar, do you have a website of your own where you rebuttal Quran-aloners? To be honest, even though I may have different views from you, I am intrigued on your knowledge on the matter and especially Arabic. Thanks.
Wa Salaam
Eversince the society has come into being, there are two groups; traditionalists and modernists. In fact they are two sides of the same coin. When the Messenger of Allah used to be physically present in a society, these two used to join hands to keep away, the public respectively under their influence, from the Messenger and the Book brought by him. After his physical departure leaving behind the Book, these two groups, apparently became opposite groups.
One group keep playing orchestra of remaining tied to the tradition of forefathers, whether or not, they knew about something or did not apply their intellect; while the other group, strikes on the person of the Messenger. Traditionalist in fact do the same thing but under the garb of sugar coated words, mostly by attributing it to the Messenger himself, to keep people away from the true words he had uttered and left in writing in the form of Book of Allah.
In fact in entire human history it is the person of the Messenger which is not acceptable to a certain class of people.
Web site is in Urdu, with an English segment containing English translation and some articles.
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Peace Bro. Mazhar (sorry for the confusion earlier),
Based on some other threads that I saw you posting in, you believe in Quran-alone or do you also take Hadiths and Sunnah as authoritative texts? Just a personal question because I wasn't sure. The reason I asked you for a website is because I take the Quran itself (not that there aren't good hadiths that I think are valuable) and figured that your arguments was pro-Hadith (ie traditionalist). Now I'm not sure? Sorry ehehe.
Peace