adhan or azaan how to do it properly?

siki

Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this; and if I repeat that none of present day human beings will go to Paradise who believes in Allah but does not believe in Muhammad s.a.s.; do you think it makes them partners; or do you think I have made the last Messenger distinct from others?

Brother , can you prove your above statement from Quran?

siki

Philosopher

Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this; and if I repeat that none of present day human beings will go to Paradise who believes in Allah but does not believe in Muhammad s.a.s.; do you think it makes them partners; or do you think I have made the last Messenger distinct from others?

yes okay this opens up a problem

that not mentioning mohamed (pbuh) beside allah is the same as "not believing" in him. the prophet was a historical person and i do see him as a prophet of islam. but it says nowhere that i must mention him beside god when praying to god.
all of the prophets of islam are equal. from adam, to abraham, to jesus, to mohamed (blessed be all of them). the prophets that came first or last are not any special than any other

Ayisha

Ayisha
Yes each Human, was best in his time, but he was Human, not a Donkey, as Allah tells Us in Quran, that Humans are his best creations.

Just give some respect to the best Chosen ones.

Regarding you ignoring me is a sentimental decision, who will teach me english then?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sssqBjaTzOU

Yes he was HUMAN and I didn't say he was a Donkey.
I have full respect for ALL God's chosen prophets and messengers as I keep telling you, but I will not add any to my worship of GOD

Ayisha

Ayesha,

The problem with you seems to me is that since some feel of negativity has made inroads into the heart against the Last Messenger . You keep saying "tells you to make no distinction among the prophets and messengers" without having bothered once to see the Arabic words, and then see at other places the use of the word which you think is "distinction". If this means distinction, then at another place you will have to translate it as "no distinction between Allah and His Messengers".

Now see it, and you translate it for me;

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136r.gif

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.150a.gif

For your convenience, and see here what these translators are saying

004.150
YUSUFALI Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying "We believe in some but reject others" And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-
PICKTHAL Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and seek to choose a way in between;

Ok lets use 'differentiate' or 'separate' instead as all the verses with this word are regarding a seperation or differentiation 'between' things. One believes in Allah then one must believe in His messengers who were the deliverers of His message, one cannot recieve a letter through the post without believing a postman brought it. There is still nothing that means 'we' are to raise one messenger above another and if the post office stopped business they wouldn't praise 'the last postman' any more than the first postman, he would just go down in history as being the last postman just as the first one would go down in history as being the first postman.

Allah + message + messenger. which do we worship as per Quran? Allah. how do we worship Allah? it's in the message. who deliverd that message? the messengers.

Leyna

Peace, Philosopher

i feel a little uncomfortable with the "mohamed" part because it feels as if i'm unneccessarily attributing the prophet to the call for prayer...

I feel the same way, and I wouldn't mention Muhammad in the Azan or during prayer.

Mazhar

yes okay this opens up a problem

that not mentioning mohamed (pbuh) beside allah is the same as "not believing" in him. the prophet was a historical person and i do see him as a prophet of islam. but it says nowhere that i must mention him beside god when praying to god.
all of the prophets of islam are equal. from adam, to abraham, to jesus, to mohamed (blessed be all of them). the prophets that came first or last are not any special than any other

Why and what makes to draw this inference, when one does not declare this to be wrong
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 123529 PM

Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this; and if I repeat that none of present day human beings will go to Paradise who believes in Allah but does not believe in Muhammad s.a.s.; do you think it makes them partners; or do you think I have made the last Messenger distinct from others?

When you say to me that "I believe in Allah" it does not in iteself mean that you do not believei in all of His Messengers. But neither can I infer from this statement that you really believe in all the Messengers. But when I say to you that I believe in Alllah and Muhammad s.a.s, you will know that I believe in Allah and all his Messengers since mentioning the Last Messenger you will infer that I believe in all the Messengers earlier than him which includes those whose names are not known to anybody.

san

Peace,

i feel a little uncomfortable with the "mohamed" part because it feels as if i'm unneccessarily attributing the prophet to the call for prayer...i have been doing this quite often now with my family especially now with ramadan. but i dont want to say that part if its from a hadith or secondary text...

Peace, Philosopher

I feel the same way, and I wouldn't mention Muhammad in the Azan or during prayer.

I feel differently )

This "adzan" is not the problem for me. I see that it becomes a problem for one only when one is still attached to the traditional methods.

If by "prayer" you mean the Salat, in which you need to read the Quran, then what are you going to do when the Quran you are reading, "points" you to a verse containing a name of a Prophet--be it Muhammad, `Isa, Ibrahim or any other name?

What is the purpose of your Salat? How do you do your Salat if you choose not to follow the examples of the Prophets? Or maybe the more accurate question is how then would you be able to think/ponder/take lesson from the examples of those mentioned in AQ, if you don't even want to mention, or even think about their names in your Salat?

Just because your Salat is only for Allah, doesn't mean that you are not allowed to think of any other entity/word than "Allah" itself. On the contrary, Allah told you to learn from the examples in AQ, which consequently means that you have to read and think about them.

re traditional adzan, it's your decision really, whether to hold it or to leave it.

If you have any doubts, you can read AQ 631-3, which i think sums it up perfectly, look at what they did and more importantly, what they did not. (Hint did they mention anything besides "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah"?) That should give you some reflections of what was in their mind.

Peace

Leyna

This "adzan" is not the problem for me. I see that it becomes a problem for one only when one is still attached to the traditional methods.

I have never been attached to traditional methods at all.

If by "prayer" you mean the Salat, in which you need to read the Quran, then what are you going to do when the Quran you are reading, "points" you to a verse containing a name of a Prophet--be it Muhammad, `Isa, Ibrahim or any other name?

I don't have a general problem with names being mentioned. I do have a problem with hearing "Muhammad is the messenger of God" five times a day blaring from various loudspeakers. And I have a problem with repeatedly mentioning a particular messenger (or particular messengers) on a regular basis because, imho, that means making a distinction.

Or maybe the more accurate question is how then would you be able to think/ponder/take lesson from the examples of those mentioned in AQ, if you don't even want to mention, or even think about their names in your Salat?

I do think about people mentioned in the Qur'an and their example etc. I just feel that prophets in general are not that important for my personal practice or understanding of faith.

Just because your Salat is only for Allah, doesn't mean that you are not allowed to think of any other entity/word than "Allah" itself.

I didn't say that I'm not allowed to.

san

@Leyna, (i wasn't pointing my every word specifically to you actually)

if you've never been attached to the "traditions", then why bother at all? let them have it. personally, i barely noticed it since i wasn't paying attention to it anymore...

I just feel that prophets in general are not that important for my personal practice or understanding of faith.

are you sure? their stories are there in AQ for us to understand islam better. though i agree that we don't come into their situation every single day.

Prince

Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this;

If you are going to quote Allah please do back this statement up with a quranic verse otherwise you are misleading the general public reading this.

From my research one can attain paradise without belief in messengers.

PEACE

siki

Brother Mazhar salam,

How are you?

37-104 And We called him "O Abraham,"

20-12 "I am your Lord, so take off your slippers, you are in the holy valley Tawa."

Brother , can you appreciate the difference?

siki

when "we" is used in speech, it is not allah who is speeking directly, it is other entities who are communicating on HIS behalf.
However in 20-12, you can see yourself that first person is being used with "I" Which is Allah speeking directly to Mosses.
peace
siki

Ayisha

Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this;

Just wondering if the verse to back this up has been found yet?

and if I repeat that none of present day human beings will go to Paradise who believes in Allah but does not believe in Muhammad s.a.s.;

Also this one, with reference to the one that gives you the right to act in the place of God and decide this

do you think it makes them partners; or do you think I have made the last Messenger distinct from others?

I will refrain from comment on this just incase you answer this and miss the others.

Mazhar

If you are going to quote Allah please do back this statement up with a quranic verse otherwise you are misleading the general public reading this.

From my research one can attain paradise without belief in messengers.

PEACE

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this Paradise has been made for the abode of those who believed in Allah and His Messengers.

Surat Al Hadid-57

Mazhar

when "we" is used in speech, it is not allah who is speeking directly, it is other entities who are communicating on HIS behalf.
However in 20-12, you can see yourself that first person is being used with "I" Which is Allah speeking directly to Mosses.
peace
siki

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and/while We loudly called him that hold on O Iebra'heim

Surat As-Safaat-37

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And We called him by the right side of mount At-Tur and We had brought him nearer reclusively.

In 2012, that is the quote what was said after having called him.

The individuality/distinction of Musa alahissalm with regard to speaking directly is qualified by a word descriing the manner of talk/verb . It was in the manner of a conversation.

Raaajah

Mazhar

this Paradise has been made for the abode of those who believed in Allah and His Messengers.

Surat Al Hadid-57

Oh! Mazhar don't you have any sympathy with those who are irritated by listening Muhammad Peace is upon him's name five times a day.

I want to hear the this name "Muhammad" All day long, as this is the name chosen by Allah for his beloved.

Ayisha

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/057.%20Al%20Hadid/Temp%2001%2057.21.gif
this Paradise has been made for the abode of those who believed in Allah and His Messengers.

Surat Al Hadid-57

so those that do good deeds and praise a creator but know nothing about any messengers are all going to hell?

The people of Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc who didnt know Muhammed are all going to hell?

Only a portion of 'Muslims' born in the last 1400 years are granted paradise?

There is a bit more to it than this part of a verse Mazhar. This is very much like the Christians saying just belief in Jesus grants you a free pass, no matter what 'deeds' you do.

Verse 5718 names people who will have a great reward, doesnt that mean a plot in this paradise? verse 19 says the baddies are those that deny 'our verses', not those who have never heard them.

Mazhar

so those that do good deeds and praise a creator but know nothing about any messengers are all going to hell?

The people of Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc who didnt know Muhammed are all going to hell?

Only a portion of 'Muslims' born in the last 1400 years are granted paradise?

There is a bit more to it than this part of a verse Mazhar. This is very much like the Christians saying just belief in Jesus grants you a free pass, no matter what 'deeds' you do.

Verse 5718 names people who will have a great reward, doesnt that mean a plot in this paradise? verse 19 says the baddies are those that deny 'our verses', not those who have never heard them.

The problem is that when we read Qur'aan we naively forget the concept of time and space, and particularly when there is a talk about the Last Messenger . The word used in the quoted Ayat is plural, the Messengers. When Easa alahissalm came, it was mandatory to believe in him, those of Bani Israel who believed in him were Muslims afresh and those of the same nation who refused to accept him the Messenger alahissalam, they were declared Kaafir and you perhaps know hell is prepared for Kaafir, and remember Kafir is an active participle, who deliberately and knowingly does the act of this word.

He told orally as well in writing in the Book of Allah about the Messenger to arrive after him. Now if they do not believe in him knowingly and defiantly what makes you to think such one could go to paradise in the presence of the fact that Paradise is prepared/raised/developed/made only for those who believe in Allah and all His Messengers?
Believing in Allah and all the Messengers is the basic/prequalification/prerequisite to become entitled to take part in the race for Paradise, everything else/deeds comes after this. Acceptance with inclination of mind and heart is at any given point in time, and rest are subject to the availability of time/life duration to the person who accepted this belief. That is why acceptance/believing at the last moment of one's life is not accepted and considered acceptance since no time is left for him to prove and demonstrate to people that he had consciously and willfully accepted/believed.

Raaajah

The people of Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc who didnt know Muhammed are all going to hell?

Only a portion of 'Muslims' born in the last 1400 years are granted paradise?

Only if the translation would have been read, of the above verse by Mazhar, Did he said so?

this Paradise has been made for the abode of those who believed in Allah and His Messengers.

afridi220

The problem is that when we read Qur'aan we naively forget the concept of time and space, and particularly when there is a talk about the Last Messenger . The word used in the quoted Ayat is plural, the Messengers. When Easa alahissalm came, it was mandatory to believe in him, those of Bani Israel who believed in him were Muslims afresh and those of the same nation who refused to accept him the Messenger alahissalam, they were declared Kaafir and you perhaps know hell is prepared for Kaafir, and remember Kafir is an active participle, who deliberately and knowingly does the act of this word.

He told orally as well in writing in the Book of Allah about the Messenger to arrive after him. Now if they do not believe in him knowingly and defiantly what makes you to think such one could go to paradise in the presence of the fact that Paradise is prepared/raised/developed/made only for those who believe in Allah and all His Messengers?
Believing in Allah and all the Messengers is the basic/prequalification/prerequisite to become entitled to take part in the race for Paradise, everything else/deeds comes after this. Acceptance with inclination of mind and heart is at any given point in time, and rest are subject to the availability of time/life duration to the person who accepted this belief. That is why acceptance/believing at the last moment of one's life is not accepted and considered acceptance since no time is left for him to prove and demonstrate to people that he had consciously and willfully accepted/believed.

http//il.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRB-ptc81U

Mazhar

http//il.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRB-ptc81U

Some people add while doing a good thing such things which also pleases Satan. These singers have also conveniently forgot the element of time and space and sequence.

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O you who orally declare to have accepted!
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Incline yourselves to believe and trust in Allah and His Messenger
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and in the Book, the one which He has since gradually sent to His Messenger
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and in the one Book, which He had sent before this
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and whoever refuses to accept Allah, and the Angels, and His BOOKS and His Messengers and the Last Day

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then for this reason indeed he perished/lost himself to the far destructive end of neglectfulness.

An-Nis