adhan or azaan how to do it properly?
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Eversince the society has come into being, there are two groups; traditionalists and modernists. In fact they are two sides of the same coin. When the Messenger of Allah used to be physically present in a society, these two used to join hands to keep away, the public respectively under their influence, from the Messenger and the Book brought by him. After his physical departure leaving behind the Book, these two groups, apparently became opposite groups.
One group keep playing orchestra of remaining tied to the tradition of forefathers, whether or not, they knew about something or did not apply their intellect; while the other group, strikes on the person of the Messenger. Traditionalist in fact do the same thing but under the garb of sugar coated words, mostly by attributing it to the Messenger himself, to keep people away from the true words he had uttered and left in writing in the form of Book of Allah.
In fact in entire human history it is the person of the Messenger which is not acceptable to a certain class of people.
Just like a traditionalist you assume that people who do not follow made-up hadith leading to worship of Muhammed have to be the opposite and do not accept him. This is not so. Those who do not follow the traditional hadithist view DO wholely accept Muhammed as a messenger of Allah but pay more attention to the written word of Allah, The Message, that he left behind than the traditional worship of the Allah/Muhammed duet. The important part is the message isnt it?
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Peace Bro. Mazhar (sorry for the confusion earlier),
Based on some other threads that I saw you posting in, you believe in Quran-alone or do you also take Hadiths and Sunnah as authoritative texts? Just a personal question because I wasn't sure. The reason I asked you for a website is because I take the Quran itself (not that there aren't good hadiths that I think are valuable) and figured that your arguments was pro-Hadith (ie traditionalist). Now I'm not sure? Sorry ehehe.
Peace
Is it not clear
One group keep playing orchestra of remaining tied to the tradition of forefathers, whether or not, they knew about something or did not apply their intellect; while the other group, strikes on the person of the Messenger. Traditionalist in fact do the same thing but under the garb of sugar coated words, mostly by attributing it to the Messenger himself, to keep people away from the true words he had uttered and left in writing in the form of Book of Allah.I, AlhamdoLillahi, write only by quoting from Grand Qur'aan. Some hadithists object it does not quote hadith. Simple answer is that do you find any thing lacking to understand the message for which you need to quote a conjectural, hypothetical or non authentic and non verifable matter. And I offer him, okay you quote an hadith which will elaborate the point further, and I will insert it in the article, that is the time he never returns the e.mail.
Have you found anywhere in my posts, mention or taking support from hadith?
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In fact in entire human history it is the person of the Messenger which is not acceptable to a certain class of people.
MazharJust like a traditionalist you assume that people who do not follow made-up hadith leading to worship of Muhammed have to be the opposite and do not accept him. This is not so. Those who do not follow the traditional hadithist view DO wholely accept Muhammed as a messenger of Allah but pay more attention to the written word of Allah, The Message, that he left behind than the traditional worship of the Allah/Muhammed duet. The important part is the message isnt it?
The problem is that I quote through the words of Qur'aan and you keep roaming among people and noticing their attitudes and taking precautions. My sentence is based on this verdict of Allah
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94.gif
And nothing prevented people that they believe/accept when the Guidance/Book of Allah came to them
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94a.gif
except that they said to people, "Has Allah appointed a human being as Messenger?" -
Peace Mazhar,
Is it not clear
One group keep playing orchestra of remaining tied to the tradition of forefathers, whether or not, they knew about something or did not apply their intellect; while the other group, strikes on the person of the Messenger. Traditionalist in fact do the same thing but under the garb of sugar coated words, mostly by attributing it to the Messenger himself, to keep people away from the true words he had uttered and left in writing in the form of Book of Allah.I have not been around for years and I remember you and the rest of the forum never agreeing on many thing, and still I see this going on. Therefore I was confused as to whether you supported Hadiths as authoritative (since you guys are not seeing eye to eye on things) or not (based on several posts Ive read from you).
Peace
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Mazhar
Just like a traditionalist you assume that people who do not follow made-up hadith leading to worship of Muhammed have to be the opposite and do not accept him. This is not so. Those who do not follow the traditional hadithist view DO wholely accept Muhammed as a messenger of Allah but pay more attention to the written word of Allah, The Message, that he left behind than the traditional worship of the Allah/Muhammed duet. The important part is the message isnt it?
The problem is that I quote through the words of Qur'aan and you keep roaming among people and noticing their attitudes and taking precautions. My sentence is based on this verdict of Allah
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94.gif
And nothing prevented people that they believe/accept when the Guidance/Book of Allah came to them
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94a.gif
except that they said to people, "Has Allah appointed a human being as Messenger?"roaming among people? ???
I have quoted Quran that says make no distinction among His prophets, messengers and the messages, you say 'yes, BUT'
The verses you have just quoted is regarding those that are prevented from believing the message because they cant believe a human came with the message, I DO believe many humans came with the message including Muhammed and I have repeatedly stated this, how many more times do i need to state this? so why this verse comes now i have no idea as it has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Quran says we make no distinction and you say yes but.... and you elevate one above the rest.
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roaming among people? ???
I have quoted Quran that says make no distinction among His prophets, messengers and the messages, you say 'yes, BUT'
The verses you have just quoted is regarding those that are prevented from believing the message because they cant believe a human came with the message, I DO believe many humans came with the message including Muhammed and I have repeatedly stated this, how many more times do i need to state this? so why this verse comes now i have no idea as it has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Quran says we make no distinction and you say yes but.... and you elevate one above the rest.
You believe partially in Qur'aan minus the Qur'aan which states the elevated position of the Messenger; and you believe not in the plain words but making your desired words and perception without giving any respect to the Arabic words which I keep putting in front. This red part is a perception totally opposite to what Quran has said.
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You believe partially in Qur'aan minus the Qur'aan which states the elevated position of the Messenger; and you believe not in the plain words but making your desired words and perception without giving any respect to the Arabic words which I keep putting in front. This red part is a perception totally opposite to what Quran has said.
You believe partially in Quran minus the part that tells you to make no distinction among the prophets and messengers and would rather say' we make no distinction among any of them - except Muhammed' as your desire is to raise him to the status of God to idolize to the point you are trying to say Quran is the word of Muhammed in the other thread.
And nothing prevented people that they believe/accept when the Guidance/Book of Allah came to them
except that they said to people, "Has Allah appointed a human being as Messenger?"The verses you have just quoted is regarding those that are prevented from believing the message because they cant believe a human came with the message.
tell me how my perception is the total opposite of what the verses said.
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Quote
And nothing prevented people that they believe/accept when the Guidance/Book of Allah came to them
except that they said to people, "Has Allah appointed a human being as Messenger?"Quote
The verses you have just quoted is regarding those that are prevented from believing the message because they cant believe a human came with the message.tell me how my perception is the total opposite of what the verses said.
They are as "innocent" as modernists are innocently saying that by accepting the elevated position it is worshipping Messenger. The fraud is only not to reconcile with the honour and dignity granted by Allah to the Messengers. Read the verses before and after the above verse, and find how incorrect is your perception of giving them innocent benefit of doubt "because they cant believe a human came with the message".
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They are as "innocent" as modernists are innocently saying that by accepting the elevated position it is worshipping Messenger. The fraud is only not to reconcile with the honour and dignity granted by Allah to the Messengers. Read the verses before and after the above verse, and find how incorrect is your perception of giving them innocent benefit of doubt "because they cant believe a human came with the message".
.This is a language problem as I have not said anything different to those verses and certainly not the opposite of them.
Nor am I saying that I do not accept the elevated position of the messengers ALL of them but in agreement with Quran I am saying one is not to elevate one higher than others. You say you agree with Quran but when it comes to this bit you say 'but'
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Ayisha
The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
You are commiting a an intellectual crime...Mazhar can be sorry for that, but not me, It is very clear and evident from your previous posts, that you give a damn to the respect of Prophet Muhammad,
Are people blind in here, who cannot understand that if it would have been possible Why Allah would have not sent
Dogs, Donkeys and Monkeys with His message, it is obvious and it is answered in Quran why Humans are chosen to convey the message and why amongst the Humans the Best one's were chosen to deliver the Message.
I feel sorry for you Mazhar, even knowing that these people deliberately insult the Prophet, you keep a closed eye, and even said sorry.Ayisha you remind of another forum member Samia, who when cornered started to pin point Spelling mistakes, and grammatical errors in others english. Can you speak or write Urdu? just give it a try? O0
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You believe partially in Quran minus the part that tells you to make no distinction among the prophets and messengers and would rather say' we make no distinction among any of them - except Muhammed' as your desire is to raise him to the status of God to idolize to the point you are trying to say Quran is the word of Muhammed in the other thread
Ayesha,
The problem with you seems to me is that since some feel of negativity has made inroads into the heart against the Last Messenger . You keep saying "tells you to make no distinction among the prophets and messengers" without having bothered once to see the Arabic words, and then see at other places the use of the word which you think is "distinction". If this means distinction, then at another place you will have to translate it as "no distinction between Allah and His Messengers".
Now see it, and you translate it for me;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136r.gif
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.150a.gif
For your convenience, and see here what these translators are saying
004.150
YUSUFALI Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying "We believe in some but reject others" And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-
PICKTHAL Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and seek to choose a way in between; -
Ayisha
You are commiting a an intellectual crime...Mazhar can be sorry for that, but not me, It is very clear and evident from your previous posts, that you give a damn to the respect of Prophet Muhammad,
Are people blind in here, who cannot understand that if it would have been possible Why Allah would have not sent
Dogs, Donkeys and Monkeys with His message, it is obvious and it is answered in Quran why Humans are chosen to convey the message and why amongst the Humans the Best one's were chosen to deliver the Message.Raj you commit a crime each time you post. Do you think Allah is not able to make animals talk of he so wished? You have said it here now yourself, the best ones plural, not one but many, each one was the best human of choice in his own time.
I feel sorry for you Mazhar, even knowing that these people deliberately insult the Prophet, you keep a closed eye, and even said sorry.
I have not insulted any prophet deliberatley or otherwise.Ayisha you remind of another forum member Samia, who when cornered started to pin point Spelling mistakes, and grammatical errors in others english. Can you speak or write Urdu? just give it a try? O0
Are you referencing this to me correcting you on your spelling when you called me names? No I dont speak or write urdu but if I did as a second language then I would welcome corrections to my errors, naturally. And please don't assume you have cornered me in any way although you are leaning heavily on my ignore button as i prefer to discuss this subject with an intellectual.
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For any declaration one needs to quote authority. And for human beings the authority is the Messenger of Allah, since Allah does not communicate with general public, except through the Messenger.
42-51And it is not for a man that Allah should speak to him except by direct revelation, or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger to reveal by HIS command what HE pleases. Surely, HE is High, Wise.
Allah does convey to Bashars by inspiration, or from behind a barrier , And he always does the same for messengers too, the only exception being one occasion with prophet Musa phuh when he spoke to him directly.
siki -
Allah does convey to Bashars by inspiration, or from behind a barrier , And he always does the same for messengers too, the only exception being one occasion with prophet Musa phuh when he spoke to him directly.
sikihttp//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/037.%20As%20Safaat/37.104.gif
and/while We loudly called him that hold on O Iebra'heimSurat As-Safaat-37
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Ayisha
The message itself is clear and if it was sent through a donkey I would still believe and follow it, not the donkey.
Yes each Human, was best in his time, but he was Human, not a Donkey, as Allah tells Us in Quran, that Humans are his best creations.
Just give some respect to the best Chosen ones.
Regarding you ignoring me is a sentimental decision, who will teach me english then?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sssqBjaTzOU -
it looks as if i have generated quite the topic.... i did not wish to create so much hostility but obviously some people transgressed and call me a munafiq. that what i'm asking is part of a virus.
its not. the question has been split to who honors, respects and revered and who doesn't. I DO respect, honor and revere the prophet Mohamed as I do all other prophets of Allah.
what i have learned from the quran is that worship should be stressed that it be for Allah alone. so why must I mention a man's name beside him and create partners with god. as special and blessed of a man as the prophet was, he was still just a man.
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what i have learned from the quran is that worship should be stressed that it be for Allah alone. so why must I mention a man's name beside him and create partners with god. as special and blessed of a man as the prophet was, he was still just a man.
But why one should think that mention of two facts together means worshipping two about whom the fact has been narrated?
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http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/037.%20As%20Safaat/37.104.gif
and/while We loudly called him that hold on O Iebra'heimSurat As-Safaat-37
Brother Mazhar salam,
How are you?
37-104 And We called him "O Abraham,"
20-12 "I am your Lord, so take off your slippers, you are in the holy valley Tawa."
Brother , can you appreciate the difference?
siki
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But why one should think that mention of two facts together means worshipping two about whom the fact has been narrated?
its setting up partners with god. if i don't mention mohamed (pbuh), then is my prayer/azaan invalid? if my call is to prayer and to pray to god alone, why must Mohamed (pbuh) be mentioned.
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ts setting up partners with god.
Paradise is only for those who believe in Allah and His Messengers? Allah says this; and if I repeat that none of present day human beings will go to Paradise who believes in Allah but does not believe in Muhammad s.a.s.; do you think it makes them partners; or do you think I have made the last Messenger distinct from others?