A personal view regarding salat
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Salam
I have been a reader of this forum for a few years now and recently decided to join.
One of the main topics on this forum seems to be the issue of salat and the number of times we should pray each day. I have even seen some people state that the word salat does not mean prayer and seen people look at the whole root of the word salat to define its meaning. This seems a bit odd to me. As an Arabic speaker when I hear the word salat or salah I immediately think of prayer.
Although I can speak Arabic my language ability is not enough for me to start looking into the root of the word to define the meaning. I also believe that this can lead us to all sorts of conclusions about the meaning of the word and for me goes against the Quran being made easy for us to understand.
I am a believer that the number of times allocated for us to pray during a day is 3.
I had initially intended to do a write up about why I believe the number of times to pray is 3 and not 2 or 4 or 5. However I decided against this for two reasons
- I don?t always pray three times a day, sometimes once sometimes twice.
- Some days I don?t pray at all.
So I felt it would be hypocritical for me to sit here and preach about having to pray 3 times a day when I fail to follow this rule myself.
So I just wanted to share a personal view about the salat times of day issue and look at it from an angle which I feel is probably more important. (Please bear in mind that this is only a personal view and I am not going to be using verses from the Quran to back up my claims, go in depth into the matter or try to persuade anyone that this view is the correct one. I just wanted to share my feelings on this and see other people?s personal views).
Having read through the Quran a few times I feel that the main theme for salat is not the number of times we should pray each day but that prayer is something we need to do regularly. Although the main times emphasised are Dawn, Dusk and during night time (some may argue we also have to pray during the day). I have not seen anywhere which it says this has to be everyday or that when we do pray you have to do all prayers for that day. I am sure if god wanted us to pray everyday and to do all prayers of that day he could have easily said so. I have not seen this anywhere. If I have missed it and someone wants to show me then please do so.
So for me the most important factor is not the number of times a day we need to pray but that we do have to pray and this should be done regularly..
Regular prayer can be weekly, monthly, every other day, every few days etc.
For something to be regular it needs to be happening frequently and often. Although you may think that for something to happen regularly the intervals between two points need to be exact, this is not necessarily the case.
You can for example be a regular customer at a store or restaurant. Does this mean you go everyday? No, you might go every few days to the store when you need something or visit your favourite restaurant once a month. Also it?s worth noting that the intervals between the first and second time you go to the store do not need to be exactly a certain time apart for it to be regular either for example going to the store every two days. And the third time you go does not need to happen the exact same time between the first and second time and so on and so forth.The message of the Quran regarding Salat to me is that we should be praying and there are main times that we should do this. But what is more important is not that it is done everyday and at all 3 (2, 4, 5) times mentioned but that it is done regularly. You can decide to pray everyday, every few days, even weekly. Even if you pray everyday, you do not necessarily have to pray at all times which are mentioned in a day. You can only pray at dawn for a particular day and only at night for another day. What is important however is that you are praying and that this is done for sincere reasons.
Peace
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Peace, and welcome to the forum.
You should read the following articles, which are about the concept of "salat"
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11539.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0As for the timing, the Quran asks the believers (mumineen) to perform the "salat" 2 times per day - at dawn and at sunset.
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Welcome brother!
I am all for trying to find the real meaning of words and verses. I do feel sometimes the search becomes more about finding something different than the original meaning, instead of the real meaning. With anything we research, if in the end the best conclusion is the original or most excepted meaning, that's fine.
Salam.
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salam to you!^^
well, i am also an arabic speaker, as well as some of those who claim that "salah" does not mean "prayer", but trying to understand the meaning of the word by looking at its root word..and in their view it is not odd at all^^
as well as not in mine..the arabic language in that aspect is very direct i think..for example, words of the same root word, like islam - aslim- muslim, you can expect that their meaning is very similar, their meaning would not spread out into different subjects!
i was just like you concerning that aspect..when i heard the words salah, hajj or zakah, i quickly connected them with the commly known islamic rituals prayer, pilgrimage and donation...but newly, i cannot understand anymore that the word "hajj" and its derivates mean to debate, to discuss in one verse, but in other parts of the quran, they mean a pilgrimage, something way different!
one should question if this unterstanding is right, or just an interpretation of our forefathers..
my thoughts concerning these points have changed newly, and especially the salah-thing is making me some headaches..^^
now i think that "salah" is semething way more than just praying to god, but i cannot say that to pray is a duty, or what praying is all about..
have to read all the quran and look up all the verses concerning the salah-issue in order to arrange my mind again^^and no, i do not think that you would be hypicritical if you would explain to us your view about how much one should pray at a day, even if you fail to follow it..as you would just express your thoughts concerning that topic and discuss it with us.
you would be hypocritical if you say that you would pray that much all days and do not do it, or if you start to preach it all the time to others..but just by discussing or explaining it won't make you an hypocrite imo, as long as you are honest to yourself..=)peace!
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and no, i do not think that you would be hypicritical if you would explain to us your view about how much one should pray at a day, even if you fail to follow it..as you would just express your thoughts concerning that topic and discuss it with us.
you would be hypocritical if you say that you would pray that much all days and do not do it, or if you start to preach it all the time to others..but just by discussing or explaining it won't make you an hypocrite imo, as long as you are honest to yourself..=)peace!
I agree with that Al-Sabr.
Personally I think the label ''hypocrite'' is thrown at people way too much. My experience in the real world is it's used as a general put down and I wonder sometimes if it is used specifically to shut people up from having healthy discussions (call me cynical if you like, I probably am now ).
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Salaam.
I've recently come to the conclusion based on reading Quran that there are 3 as well. I do not know any Arabic and I'm far from a scholarly type so this was difficult for me and I did a lot of reading and checking of things...but basically I am not that knowledgable so I'd settled on the 3...to me they seem to be mentioned.
But from following the links that progressive1993 posted above I see others have come to the conclusion of 2. Wow!! So I've gone from 5 to 3 and now I'm wondering if I am on the right path with those. I'm sure it's ok to do more, but at some stage I will have to take more time, as you seem to have, to really delve into it. I don't think I have the energy and certainly not the time today.
"I feel that the main theme for salat is not the number of times we should pray each day but that prayer is something we need to do regularly. Although the main times emphasised are Dawn, Dusk and during night time (some may argue we also have to pray during the day)."
I actually got the idea of 3 being dawn, noon and dusk, but that may be (as stated) due to my lack of Arabic and inclination to delve deep enough. -[
Quran certainly does seem to emphasise the ''regularity'' of salaat. Thanks for posting this as it's on my mind.
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rana,
don't drive yourself crazy
just be as honest to yourself as you can be, and think about all the information you can get (or are able to get) very patiently..then everything will be fine=)
have in mind that god does not except from us humans something to do what we are not able to.i also know most of the verses which are used to underline the 2/3-salahs-a-day theories, and i think the critical point here which decides between two or three salahs is the way how you understand the word "as-salatil-wusta", which is often translated as "the middle prayer"..some understand it as a third prayer in the middle of the day-> you get 3 prayers a day!
others understand it as the way one should pray, making it an explanation of the part of the verse before-> you get 2 prayers a day!personally, i would support the 2-salah theory, as there are (as far as i know) only two times to make salah mentioned in the quran, which are dawn and dusk, thus also would understand the term "salatil-wusta" as the way the salah has to be made, as the verse tells us first to take care/attend to the salawat (arabic hafidhu 'alas-salawati), and after that it reads "was-salatil-wusta", commonly understood as "the middle prayer", explaining for me that we should not make the prayer easygoing, nor should we exaggerate in it, but we should use a way in the middle.
my understanding could be wrong, as i am a human being just like the others, and that i can read and understand arabic does not make my interpretation better than those who cannot say even one word in arabic..
god does not teach us the quran/reading in arabic, but he teaches us the meaning of its message..and this message is not connected to any language
peace!
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peace!
after i send my last post here, i got in mind to ask you something..
i would like to ask all of you who do the prayer to explain me how you do it..?
do you pray like sunni/shia, or do you all have your individual way of praying?would really like to know that..=)
salam!
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The time that I begun to reading the Quran, I realized that there is something strange with word "salat" which translated as "namadh/prayer" in my readings. The situation that I've seen is very annoying and illogic in all aspects within translations. I was having strong sense that there is something wrong here. The portrayal of a God which commands to this kind of rituals was not acceptable concept for me anyway.
Then I begun to research and I saw that I was not only one in same question. I have realized that the problem was related with fabrication of new alternative religion named "Islam" and its pagan based rituals. Muslim scholars and follower translators were not able to realize or gave not sufficient effort to understanding what happened during revelation years.
What I see after some mind blowing efforts is salat was something kind of social duty with strong relationship within God's principles (deen/DYN). This duty was expanding whole day as not as like prayer/namadh. The base aspect of salat was straighting up (Iqaama) God's principles in nation with assigning ourselves/themselves by social duties/works. During communicating with people and spreading out Qur'an, Mohammad made his salat in his own way. This was exactly what should be expected from him. He succeeded in his way but a lot of things went astray of this way later.
And the messenger saith O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur?an of no account.
Peace.
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peace exodus,
I agree with you.
For my own view see here (already linked to in this thread)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htmpeace Wakas,
I have readen your article already. I could not find a chance for confirming that we are in similar view. Then, this is the time.
Peace.
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don't drive yourself crazy
Salaam Al-Sabr
It's too late yeah rotfl
I really appreciate your explanation regarding the middle prayer. I will of course continue to read and learn and ponder, but that gives me something to look out for. For the moment I am happy enough doing the 3. In fact I feel so relieved doing 3 - I feel much more like I'm heading in the right direction.
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Peace all
Seems like you have had a great debate today. )
@ Progressive1993 Thank you for those links. There are some interesting ideas there. I can understand why some people would argue for only two prayer times but I?m still not entirely convinced. hmm
Verse 11114 can be translated as follows. ?? keep up the prayer at both ends of the day, and during parts of the night. For me the two ends of day are dawn and dusk. Although some might argue that the two ends are dawn and when the Sun is at its highest point in the sky, leading to the midday prayer.
The two prayers mentioned in the Quran by name, Fajr and Isha. Traditionally Isha is namely the night time prayer however I would suggest that this would probably be the name for the dusk time prayer.
We also know that the prophet used to pray during the night.
Verse 7320 ?? Your Lord is well aware that you sometimes spend nearly two-thirds of the night at prayer??sometimes half, sometimes a third??as do some of your followers.?? The word for prayer in this verse is taqumu which means to stand. I basically believe the prophet would stand up to pray during the night.
My Arabic is not perfect and I?m sure there are those on here who have better Arabic skills then I do. But I can get the general gist of the verses with a bit of research and looking at different translations.
However I did not want to get into a debate at this time regarding how many prayers there are just wanted to say that I do not believe that this has to be a daily ritual but rather done regularly.
@ Rana
Quran certainly does seem to emphasise the ''regularity'' of salaat. Thanks for posting this as it's on my mind.You're welcome. The concept of salat is always something that?s been on my mind too. I have an issue with how its seen by Hadithists as the main definition of being a Muslim. If you don?t pray then you are a bad Muslim or not a Muslim at all in their minds. I also hate that many Muslims are taught or teach that if you miss prayers you will go to hell and none of your good deeds will count towards anything. I can?t believe that god would disregard all your good deeds simply because you missed a few prayers in your life. Sometimes it's not easy to do your prayers especially if you follow the 5 day version which I used to do. I found it hard keeping to the prayer timetable was usually late and was told by a number of people its then not counted towards some sort of quota or something.
@ Al sabr. I pray in a similar way to the traditional method. However I only say surat al fatiha when I am standing up. I have taken away all references to the prophet and praising him and his family as we should only be praising Allah. Also when I end my prayer I don?t praise the angels on my left and right instead I end (without turning my head left and right) by saying Al-Hamdu lilAllah Rab Al-Alameen.. Verse 1010 ??and the last part of their prayer is praise be to god lord of the universe.
Peace
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@ Rana
You're welcome. The concept of salat is always something that?s been on my mind too. I have an issue with how its seen by Hadithists as the main definition of being a Muslim. If you don?t pray then you are a bad Muslim or not a Muslim at all in their minds. I also hate that many Muslims are taught or teach that if you miss prayers you will go to hell and none of your good deeds will count towards anything. I can?t believe that god would disregard all your good deeds simply because you missed a few prayers in your life. Sometimes it's not easy to do your prayers especially if you follow the 5 day version which I used to do. I found it hard keeping to the prayer timetable was usually late and was told by a number of people its then not counted towards some sort of quota or something.Salaam yesuri2000.
I have also considered that same thing about prayers and how good deeds could be so easily disregarded etc. It is hard to manage 5 prayers daily along with everything else. I tried my best and I didn't complain because I ''believed'' at that time that Allah had asked us to do it. I can't argue with that (though if you've seen my recent post on parents you might argue that I wouldn't argue... P). So I just did my best, but it did always seem strange that it was sooo black and white.
Interestingly last night I talked with a friends about my concerns re hadith. It was the first time I had really expressed these concerns with a Muslim, as in further than just trying to discuss, actually saying I have no faith in hadith (& other than with my husband). It went down quite well - she is a smart lady and he is not entirely conventional herself so it was a good place to begin.
The interesting part for me was that she took everything really well as she realises we must question (perhaps she assumes I will return to hadith once I find the proof lol)...but when she asked me if I was still praying and I said "yes....3 x day". Then I could tell she was shocked. Still, I can't help that. I can only explain to her why I am doing it, which I did in my own way.
So, in short (which I'm not very good at -[) - yes, for most Muslims the prayers are such a base for everything that this kind of thing can bring a strong reaction. For that particular friend I think she will be understanding and may even open herself to question herself. I can't say that for my other friends necessarily. But then I already may not be considered Muslim due to the way I did shahada so I'm not going to let the prayer thing hold me back. muscle )
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Reading through the forum now and looking back to when I joined, I find it interesting/funny how caught up people, especially new members get with the issue of salat - it seems to be the biggest debate among those who follow "quran alone". It's not necessarily a bad thing since you should investigate and find out concepts of The Quran, but it seems like a lot of people mainly like to philosophize about it. I remember me trying to get hold of the salat issue - took a while, prob. still haven't gotten it all (salat isn't just about praying or the like).
Most people, when coming into this forum assume that "salat" = prayer, which is not the case.
I would like you to look at these verses3343 He (God) is the One who yusallee unto you, along with His forces/"angels" ("malaikatahu", to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is ever Compassionate towards those who trust/believe/acknowledge.
Especially chapter 107 is interesting
1071 Do you notice who rejects the system/obligation?
1072 It is the one who mistreats the orphan
1073 And does not encourage the feeding of the poor.
1074 So woe to the musalleena (those who "slw"
1075 Who are totally heedless of their "salat"
1076 They only want to be seen,
1077 They hinder sustenanceAlso look at these
2155 We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and fruits. Give good news to those who are patient.
2156 The ones who, when afflicted with adversity, say, "We are to God and to Him we will return."
2157 To these will be "salawat" from their Lord and compassion/embrace. They are the guided/enlightened ones.This is related to the following
9103 , take from their money a charity to purify them and improve them with it, and "salli" unto them. Your "salat" is tranquility for them, and God is Hearer, Knower.
It becomes clear that "slw" does not mean "prayer" in these verses. "Slw" is compared to embracing, bonding, etc.
It is also compared to helping and supporting people, charity, sustenance, etc.
Notice that God does not "pray" to us (see 2157 and 3343), so it would be silly to translate "slw" in those verses as something prayer-related, which even traditionalist translators admit, looking at their translations.I suggest to study the topics in The Quran with an open mind without ANY preconceptions, which is hard, but you need to try.
Peace
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I believe salah has many meanings, in the arabic language one word has many meanings and sometimes one thing has many names, So there"s many differnt meanigs to salat also, so how can we see them bowing and prostrating? or maybe bowing and prostrating is something else? than how do we see someone bowing and prostrating if it's not physically ? i believe see them means looking with our eyes or does it have another meaning?
the 3 salats are the salats that the sunnis do with moderate voice, 2 in fadjr 2 in maghrib and 2 in isha , if u eliminate all their false rakaas wich they do silently, u end up taking out dhohr, asr, 1 rakaa from maghrib and 2 rakaa from isha, u end up with 3 correct salat, this is what i think, i might be wrong but use
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Hi Loxbox
I totally agree with you. Words can have different meanings. Even the English language words can have different meanings. These are known as homographs. For example you have the word Desert. This can mean to abandon somewhere or a dry barren area like the deserts of Arabia.
Progressive1993 you be right with the verses you used that the slw does not mean prayer but other verses in the quran which use slw do mean prayer.
The quran shows examples of when people prayed, either prostrating, standing up or bowing down and even how loud you should be and that we should be clean before we pray.
17 110 Say, ?Call on God, or on the Lord of Mercy- whatever names you call Him, the best names belong to Him. Do not be too loud (in prayers) ''Bisalitika'' , or too quiet, but seek a middle way.
2277 Believers, bow down, prostrate yourselves, worship your Lord, and do good so that you may succeed (yes the slw is not used in this verse but the actions of how we should worship god are shown here).
56 You who believe, when you are about to pray ''al-alati''..... (this verse is talking about doing wudu before praying)
443 You who believe, do not come anywhere near the prayer (al-salata) if you are intoxicated, not until you know what you are saying.....
I can understand the arguments that the ''slw'' in the Quran does not necessarily mean prayer in some verses. However my feelings are that as a Muslim we do need to pray and remember our lord.
