The Search for Muhammad has Ended
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I apologize if I missed the reference, I couldnt find it in the OP. I thought it was important to illustrate how this idea has been heaviliy abused politically, if it did not came into life because of political motivations. Just pay attention to the OP author's use of anti-zionist statements. In my opinion the whole theory is pseudo-scientifical. I'm not even bothered to go into a debate. It would be a lot more honest if at least the nationalist background of Salibi and his support for fatah was mentioned.
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I dislike very much you inuendo indicating that if somebody is a member (was he a member) of Fatah or of anything elswe whatsoever one has to automatically dismiss what he or she says, on that ground everything in this world should be dismissed. Why do you pick precisely the cause of the most maligned and ill treated people in the world at this time, is beyond me. You should know why you do that and we do not need a mentor to caution us against Pazuzu or against anybody else. We are grown up enough. And in thisparticular case Pazuzu is far more on the mark than you as far as I am concerned. Palestinians have the right to fight, have the right to have wheatever organizations they deem or can set up. And to distrust anybody because somebody is sympathetic or participant in something like that is ignoble.
On the other hand,do you have any counter to Pazuzu's documents where he quotes precisely Israeli universities which, of all else, are writing more and more consistently supporting precisely those views of Pazuzu which you criticese on the grounds thaat you do.
You not only seem to be out of line, but also out of touch with "prestige" sources.
Salaam
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I apologize if I missed the reference, I couldnt find it in the OP. I thought it was important to illustrate how this idea has been heaviliy abused politically, if it did not came into life because of political motivations. Just pay attention to the OP author's use of anti-zionist statements. In my opinion the whole theory is pseudo-scientifical. I'm not even bothered to go into a debate. It would be a lot more honest if at least the nationalist background of Salibi and his support for fatah was mentioned.
You do need to Apologise brother. Trust me, as I have said in this thread also, it's wasting time nothing, but garbage. The problems is here, for some, pazuzu work considered as truth its liberating and enlightening. His follower will attack you whenever pazuzu work criticized. Only pazuzu can point other work's as garbage's, propaganda and so on.
Just like some criticized Bukhari, whoever it was will have to face bukhary faithfull follower whom believe bukhary work is liberating, enlightning etc, all because of the amount of work his done, one should be thankful.
As I said, thre's might be propaganda in play here hehehe.
Peace
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Oh, well, we are also here full of redeemers who will keep us from falling into sin at the hands of devil Pazuzu, whom we worship ever so much.
Whenever somebody is confronted with something for which they do not have arguments they resort to branding of this or that, beause we are fools and children that a fall for anything.
Only they, the chosen know truth from temptation.
You are so ridiculous pretending that those who see worth in Pazuzus work what they are is brainwashed. You, may be would like us to b3e brainwashed by you and "not by Pazuzu".
The point is that you have absolutely nothing to offer but the usual crap, and do not even have the honesty to confront any of Pazuzus with the text of the Qur'an, which is, in case you forgot, why we are here.
Bring up the Qur'an and prove whatever you want to prove, which you do not say. _All you care is that Pazuzu thism Pazuzu that. You are the ones that are crazy ofver Pazuzu, up to here everybody who appreciates his work has been quite able to put up whatever problems they ahve seen with it.
The Qur'an tells us not to covet other people's gifts.
Bring up books like Pazuzu has written and put up research like he has put and then come back and try to get us much attention.
Pointing fingers an inuendos are not something that attracts the loyalty of loyal people. An picking in Palestine only attracts the loyalte of cowards.
If all your scientifical back up consist of throwing stones on the roof of Palestine, and you have not shown any other, what kind of respect do you expect.
Salaam
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Interesting you're assuming the one whom criticized pazuzu considered him as devil and such, such imagination. nope
I'm not even going to debate you brother huruf. I'ts only going to be mudharat for me to debate anyone over someone like pazuzu.. )
A reactions whenever pazuzu is criticized on general terms ( this is general issues board as I recall again), in sha Allah everyone can read and judge it by themselves. And lastly, Alhamdulillah, it seems only bit portion members on this forum believe in pazuzu garbages.
Salam
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Interesting you're assuming the one whom criticized pazuzu considered him as devil and such, such imagination. nope
I'm not even going to debate you brother huruf. I'ts only going to be mudharat for me to debate anyone over someone like pazuzu.. )
A reactions whenever pazuzu is criticized on general terms ( this is general issues board as I recall again), in sha Allah everyone can read and judge it by themselves. And lastly, Alhamdulillah, it seems only bit portion members on this forum believe in pazuzu garbages.
Salam
Your qualifying Pazuzu's contribution as garbage describes you not Pazuzu. Nobody worthy wastes energy puylling down somebody's work or contribution. Rather would keep mum or would contribute something themselves to make light of whatever. Calling somethin garbage is no merit, and seems to clear you, it seems of the need to come up with good analysis or goot research stuff to counter what you qualify as garbage. What you say is of no value and gives a pretty clear idea of the mental state of whoever comes up with that kind of thing.
If Pazuzu was half as mean as his name callers, he would be laughing out loud at these word wastage without any value or help for anybody , because really it is laughable.
Salaam
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Your qualifying Pazuzu's contribution as garbage describes you not Pazuzu. Nobody worthy wastes energy puylling down somebody's work or contribution. Rather would keep mum or would contribute something themselves to make light of whatever. Calling somethin garbage is no merit, and seems to clear you, it seems of the need to come up with good analysis or goot research stuff to counter what you qualify as garbage. What you say is of no value and gives a pretty clear idea of the mental state of whoever comes up with that kind of thing.
If Pazuzu was half as mean as his name callers, he would be laughing out loud at these word wastage without any value or help for anybody , because really it is laughable.
So when pazuzu calling other works (real research not google based) are garbage's propaganda, he is worthy right?
Typical..... hmm
Salam
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I dislike very much you inuendo indicating that if somebody is a member (was he a member) of Fatah or of anything elswe whatsoever one has to automatically dismiss what he or she says, on that ground everything in this world should be dismissed. Why do you pick precisely the cause of the most maligned and ill treated people in the world at this time, is beyond me. You should know why you do that and we do not need a mentor to caution us against Pazuzu or against anybody else. We are grown up enough. And in thisparticular case Pazuzu is far more on the mark than you as far as I am concerned. Palestinians have the right to fight, have the right to have wheatever organizations they deem or can set up. And to distrust anybody because somebody is sympathetic or participant in something like that is ignoble.
On the other hand,do you have any counter to Pazuzu's documents where he quotes precisely Israeli universities which, of all else, are writing more and more consistently supporting precisely those views of Pazuzu which you criticese on the grounds thaat you do.
You not only seem to be out of line, but also out of touch with "prestige" sources.
Salaam
What you like and dislike is irrelevant to me huruf. Let me point out some things to you
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I'm not even attacking Pazuzu. I will do so now. This research as he presents it consists of plagiarising old theories and copying other peoples works that have been around for decades, presenting them as his own research and presenting them as new discoveries. In reality, nothing in this work is his intellectual property. Him asking to publish his 'book' on someones webserver should tell you he's well aware he's violating a lot of copyrights. If this weren't the case, he would go to a publisher. But it will cost a lot of money clearing those copyrights.
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Someone being part of fatah does not render the work irrelevant. Of course not. But this theory has been 30 years old now. It has not been accepted by the academic world since then and it never will be because it is pseudo-scientifical crap that is on the same level of the nazi's doing their research in Tibet to trace the roots of their aryan race. Equal to the level of the Israeli archeology claiming they discovered the city of David. I'm not applying double standards, huruf. You are because you sympathize with the palestinian cause you turn into a gullible reader of the work. I mean, this Salibi's 'scientific' methods involve using sundials - archeological evidence is just not required in his methods.
Peace
PS It's saddening to me a community that preaches Quran only is still susceptible to letting Quran being highjacked for politcal motives. @huruf, you are wrong to think to know my opinion about the Israeli-Palestine conflict. I'm not looking through political lenses when I'm looking at history, science or Quran. Me sympathizing with the Palestinian cause does not imply I will switch my mind of when I see falsehood. I'm not even saying it's impossible Yemen is the right location for certain events as described in Quran. But Salibi's theory, as regurgitated by pazuzu in this thread will not be the one proving it to the rational thinking mind that isn't muslim or a militant supporter of the palestinian cause to begin with.
*edited
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This research as he presents it consists of plagiarising old theories and copying other peoples works that have been around for decades, presenting them as his own research and presenting them as new discoveries.
Is it so?
Before you arrogantly accuse others with your usual venom and biggotry, and spew your legal vomit and political correctness in here, you should know that most of the "garbage" you read on these threads has been updated and put into a series of e-books. At the beginning of these e-books is a disclaimer page which clearly states that the books are simply compilations of what other researchers and academics have said regarding the issue, quoting articles, statements they made in seminars, passages from books (showing the reference at the end of each book), and that the compilers have not sought any material gain, nor do they hold any rights to the materials therein. In fact 90% of what is written can be downloaded for free off the net, albeit in Arabic, not in English. Therefore it is not the theory of Pazuzu, nor did Pazuzu ever, in any way shape and form, claim it as his own.
That's from a legal perspective. As for what you actually think of the research itself, and the credibility of the subject, this is something each individual reader will have to decide for himself. And in the end, your opinion and the soles of my shoes are about equal.
Have a nice day.
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@Pazuzu You are doing nothing wrong posting someone else's intellectual property on this forum. I'm free to state this is not your intellectual property which some of the active members in this thread seem to think. I'm free to state this theory is 30 years old and has been academically laughed at as a nationalist form of revisionism ever since. If you really want to prove Salibi was onto some objective truth, I suggest you take a shovel and start digging in Yemen. I would be most interested in those findings. So far, this post contains nothing new. It's the same PLO/fatah rewriting of history we know they used to discredit the Israeli claims to the territory.
One would think seeing the errors of shia and sunni sectarianism from the perspective of Quran alone, one would be so wise as to refrain from conflating political ambitions with Quranic interpretation. It has never led to any good.
Peace
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Here is a suggestion since you seem so concerned about the number of "BELIEVE(RS) in Pazuzus garbages", why don't you do a real statistic of that, not simply a wholesale appreciation which divests it of scientific value. A real scientific statistic founded also in an accurate definition of what is intended in the word "believe". Otherwise you sound like mere humbug, which is not really worthy of you.
If you are saying somebody believes in Pazuzus garbage might sound ofensive or insulting. If you give a proper technical definition of a "believer in Pazuzus garbage" would make more like your exigences when it comes to scientific stuff and bla, bla, bla...
Be up to your own level so you can admire you and ?who knows? "believe" in your garbage which you seem to think is way above Pazuzus garbage.
Salaam
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?No! ?Political ambitions? ?Oh no! My God, politcal ambitions. ?Oh, my God! Political ambitions.
?I am ever so shocked!
I have the impresion another two have joined Hadithete comic club in the forum. Everybosy here pushing politics and suddenly a culpprit has been found to brand as the great devil of political fraud in the forum.
I find your attitude disgusting, but nevertheless, comical. Keep the fun going.
And you keep silent on the Qur'an. Pazuzu has brought proofs from the Qur'an to bear his research, YOU pretentiously keep off it, because you have nothing to support your claims except bad, readings of the very work you judge, your ignorance and your own political bias, which of course you do no call bias, because you seemingly by divine decree are like the pope, infallible and giver of titles of good history and bad history and this and that.
You really impress me but not for good.
Salaam
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Well he believes in the official lame history, and invisible beings of superstition for jinn.
People also ought to take a look in old classical Arabic dictionaries regarding jinn. They may make interesting discoveries.
Salaam
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Here is a suggestion since you seem so concerned about the number of "BELIEVE(RS) in Pazuzus garbages", why don't you do a real statistic of that, not simply a wholesale appreciation which divests it of scientific value. A real scientific statistic founded also in an accurate definition of what is intended in the word "believe". Otherwise you sound like mere humbug, which is not really worthy of you.
To me history is not about belief. It's about archeological evidence. The truth is there have been zero archeological findings supporting this whole theory of Salibi. You keep referring to it as pazuzu's theory even though even he himself admits he has been doing nothing but regurgitating existing theory in a suspense style thriller format that clearly works for some. What's different from the original theory is that pazuzu's reiteration of it is not ashamed to try to hide the anti-zionist rethoric it belongs to. If you dislike people reacting to political tainted revisionism please do more effort in hiding or even better removing your political ambitions. Throughout the whole thread you will find him blaming the zionists for a conspiracy that stole muslims of their supposedly authentic history. If people don't care about scientific standards when researching history there is little I can change about that. They probably enjoy fairytales as well. Nothing wrong with that just dont be a poser and present it as hard science.
Peace
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Well he believes in the official lame history, and invisible beings of superstition for jinn.
People also ought to take a look in old classical Arabic dictionaries regarding jinn. They may make interesting discoveries.
Salaam
This made me laugh, reading this from the most famous linguistic revisionist on this forum.
Peace bro
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For those interested in some academic criticism on Salibi's work, here's a pointer from Corrie Block
http//i.imgur.com/94kN9f9.png
Peace
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Some more archeological evidence that is totally ignored by Salibi
http//i.imgur.com/kiSBcCd.png
Peace
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Armana letters
http//i.imgur.com/a1E1V0p.png
Peace
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@Pazuzu If you really want to prove Salibi was onto some objective truth, I suggest you take a shovel and start digging in Yemen. I would be most interested in those findings.
I suggest the same bravo
I sincerely hope, you can acquire the funding. Whenever you acquire one, you can bring leeman along, as he always 'whining' about the funding. You may also bring brother huruf or any of your supporter, as an journalist, to make documents on whatever your find by your own shovel in maqams kamal kalibi !
Peace.
here's pointer maybe you can find good quality one instead
https//preachrr.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/pick-shovel-cross.jpg