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  4. :: Bani or Walad - What does they mean? ::

:: Bani or Walad - What does they mean? ::

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    mmkhan
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    It seems you have confused two different words.

    And

    Both are completely different words and roots with completely different meanings.

    I think you did not read opening post of this thread.
    Anyways, how would you understand in 546 and 6611.

    May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
    mmKhan

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      noshirk
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Salaam mmkhan

      ( &#1577

      Again, thank you for your post and your remark
      it is, i think, much more important than you think.

      OM (and derivates OMMI, OMMA,OMMATON, AMATON) is to compare to WALIDA
      AB, ABOU is to compare to WALID.
      IBN is to compare to WALAD and ADYIA (&#1614

      we have to look again here
      3340 Mohammed is not ABA of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

      the opposition of ABA of any and Messenger of god is strange.

      We have also to look again to Zayd case.
      i ask allah to forgive me to have looked in hearsays. But there it is said that Zayd was only 10 years younger than Muhammad. It is also said that it was Khadija who gave "Zayd" as gift as slave the day of marriage. That mean, Zyad began to be slave of Muhammad when Zayd was 15 and Muhammad 25 (15 years before revelation according to hearsays).
      Zayd was known as "zayd Ibn Muhammad".
      What mean then Adya ? is that mean adopted son or simply someone who take the name of ?

      335 Name them (adya) by their Aba. That is more just with God.....
      Problem how to name boys from unknown father ?

      and how to understand this
      3337 ...... to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives ADYA if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

      of course we have to understand also why bani is used with Bani Israel and Bani Adam and not to BANI Ibrahim or Bani Ismail...

      Dear mmkhan, do you mind in what huge problem you put islam in ?

      Thank you again.

      Peace

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      • U Offline
        U Offline
        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        It seems you have confused two different words.

        And

        Both are completely different words and roots with completely different meanings.

        Both of two words is same, just difference in writing style

        Actually the red is not ya' but alif maqshurah.

        Peace

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        • T Offline
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          The_Chimp
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Both of two words is same, just difference in writing style

          Actually the red is not ya' but alif maqshurah.

          Peace

          Both words are not same - one has root Ba Na Na and the other Ba Na Ya - check dictionary Hans Wehr.

          If you do not know something then please do not bother replying with incorrect answers.

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          • T Offline
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            The_Chimp
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            I think you did not read opening post of this thread.
            Anyways, how would you understand in 546 and 6611.

            May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
            mmKhan

            As long as you know that both are different words . . .

            In verse 546 Ibn = son. It is a noun.

            In verse 6611 the word is "Bin" Imperative form of the verb Ba Na Na - Build.

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            • U Offline
              U Offline
              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Both words are not same - one has root Ba Na Na and the other Ba Na Ya - check dictionary Hans Wehr.

              As I know Sunni didn't used Hans Wehr, since it's modern Arabic dictionary.

              Build/ came from ba' and nun and the red is ya' withouth two dots called alif maqsuurat ( &#1577.

              there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
              The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

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              • T Offline
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                The_Chimp
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                As I know Sunni didn't used Hans Wehr, since it's modern Arabic dictionary.

                Build/ came from ba' and nun and the red is ya' withouth two dots called alif maqsuurat ( ).

                there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
                The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

                Hans Wher contains Classical Arabic - its a mid level concise dictionary.

                there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
                The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

                Incorrect. There are plent of such root. Ha Qa Qa Haqq.

                Qa Sa Sa Qass - to cut.

                Ka Na Na To hide.

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  mmkhan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Salaam mmkhan

                  ( &#1577

                  Again, thank you for your post and your remark
                  it is, i think, much more important than you think.

                  OM (and derivates OMMI, OMMA,OMMATON, AMATON) is to compare to WALIDA
                  AB, ABOU is to compare to WALID.
                  IBN is to compare to WALAD and ADYIA (&#1614

                  we have to look again here
                  3340 Mohammed is not ABA of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

                  the opposition of ABA of any and Messenger of god is strange.

                  We have also to look again to Zayd case.
                  i ask allah to forgive me to have looked in hearsays. But there it is said that Zayd was only 10 years younger than Muhammad. It is also said that it was Khadija who gave "Zayd" as gift as slave the day of marriage. That mean, Zyad began to be slave of Muhammad when Zayd was 15 and Muhammad 25 (15 years before revelation according to hearsays).
                  Zayd was known as "zayd Ibn Muhammad".
                  What mean then Adya ? is that mean adopted son or simply someone who take the name of ?

                  335 Name them (adya) by their Aba. That is more just with God.....
                  Problem how to name boys from unknown father ?

                  and how to understand this
                  3337 ...... to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives ADYA if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

                  of course we have to understand also why bani is used with Bani Israel and Bani Adam and not to BANI Ibrahim or Bani Ismail...

                  Dear mmkhan, do you mind in what huge problem you put islam in ?

                  Thank you again.

                  Peace

                  Salaam brother noshirk,

                  I am sorry to say that you did not understand your post et all.
                  And the references you quoted which I don't believe in, disturbs me when I tried to understand your post.
                  Can you please rephrase your sentences and try to be specific to the word of Allah please? Thanks.

                  May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                  mmKhan

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    mmkhan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    As long as you know that both are different words . . .

                    In verse 546 Ibn = son. It is a noun.

                    In verse 6611 the word is "Bin" Imperative form of the verb Ba Na Na - Build.

                    I have a problem with red and blue highlighted parts above.
                    Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?
                    Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

                    May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                    mmKhan

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                    • T Offline
                      T Offline
                      The_Chimp
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      I have a problem with red and blue highlighted parts above.
                      Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?
                      Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

                      May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                      mmKhan

                      Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?

                      Pronunciation - that is why. Hamza Wasli and Qataee. But in writing they are always written.

                      Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

                      Yes that is correct. However - Arabic does not have roots that are composed of two letters . The minimum is three.

                      There many verbs in this category - There are known as Mudaaf - Doubled Verbs

                      http//arabic.desert-sky.net/g_conj.html

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Pronunciation - that is why. Hamza Wasli and Qataee. But in writing they are always written.

                        Pronunciation? We are talking about the TEXT not about its recitation.
                        Every letter and dialectic mark is written on purpose by Allah to guide us to the correct path.

                        Yes that is correct. However - Arabic does not have roots that are composed of two letters . The minimum is three.

                        There many verbs in this category - There are known as Mudaaf - Doubled Verbs

                        http//arabic.desert-sky.net/g_conj.html

                        But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
                        As it claims to have all examples 1789.

                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                        mmKhan

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                        • T Offline
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                          The_Chimp
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Pronunciation? We are talking about the TEXT not about its recitation.
                          Every letter and dialectic mark is written on purpose by Allah to guide us to the correct path.
                          But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
                          As it claims to have all examples 1789.

                          May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                          mmKhan

                          Dialectic marks were added for the benefit of the reading and they are not really part of the original conveyed text as such.

                          Further than this it depends on your knowledge of Arabic - but I will hint at it.

                          Quran itself writes the word "Ism" with and without alif.

                          But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
                          As it claims to have all examples 1789.

                          It is not clear what you are referring to here. We don;t have example of what from the Quran?

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            mmkhan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Dialectic marks were added for the benefit of the reading and they are not really part of the original conveyed text as such.

                            Further than this it depends on your knowledge of Arabic - but I will hint at it.

                            Quran itself writes the word "Ism" with and without alif.

                            Wow! I am surprised.
                            Please let me know, do you believe that alQuraan is the word of Allah and it is sent by Allah?
                            If yes, then please answer me how Allah allows humans to insert something in His Book of guidance for the mankind?

                            It is not clear what you are referring to here. We don;t have example of what from the Quran?

                            You wrote something about mudhaaf , I need an example from alQuraan for the same.

                            May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                            mmKhan

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                            • T Offline
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                              The_Chimp
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Wow! I am surprised.

                              Surprised over what?

                              Please let me know, do you believe that alQuraan is the word of Allah and it is sent by Allah?

                              I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

                              If yes, then please answer me how Allah allows humans to insert something in His Book of guidance for the mankind?

                              What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.


                              You wrote something about mudhaaf , I need an example from alQuraan for the same.

                              The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                mmkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Surprised over what?

                                I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

                                Sorry, but this is not the answer for my question.

                                What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.

                                I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.


                                The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

                                Thanks for the aayat. Yes, I agree about the root.

                                May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                mmKhan

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                                • T Offline
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                                  The_Chimp
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.

                                  So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    mmkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

                                    As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

                                    If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

                                    May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                    mmKhan

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Man_of_Faith
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace Mr Chimp,

                                      We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

                                      I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

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                                      • T Offline
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                                        The_Chimp
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

                                        If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

                                        May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                                        mmKhan

                                        Sorry - but not quite buying it. Almighty does not go around handing out personal interpretations by inspiration. Yes, that does happen - but people tend to keep that quiet.

                                        The only valid interpretations are achieved by linguistic perspective and reasoning.

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                                          The_Chimp
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          Peace Mr Chimp,

                                          We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

                                          I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

                                          We've bee through this - several times. And you came out wanting. Here

                                          "...we call Qur'an in Arabic..."

                                          Concentrate that for a minute . . . who between us two do you reckon is stronger? Or at least makes the stronger claims?


                                          As to messages

                                          There is that thread about Alcohol . . . a guy "Abdul-Hadi" desperately tried to justify alcohol to an extent . . . in the end he left it by making unwarranted personal attack - he got personal.

                                          Repeatedly on this forum - the "message" people try to find is aligning Quran and derived morality with Western Enlightenment values.

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