Define Your Definition For Clarification Without Confusion: Qur'aan Alone = = ?
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@diamantinehoneybunc,
I have destroyed the argument of your "teacher", come over to our school, the school of Ahlul Bayt. We follow the Quran and Ahlul Bayt.
The two weighty things known as thaqalyn in Arabic. Our Infallible Imams are appointed to safeguard the message of the Quran.
If it requires a mortal to convey the message then it also requires a mortal to safeguard His last message to mankind.
We are not rigid and we are the most dynamic school of thought, our scholars can do ijtihad.
Tashayyu' is the future....come and join us..open invitation!
Your argument is invalid!
You just simply told what your cult is about.
It is like saying "Zoroastrianism is the worship of fire. So Islam is wrong because muslims don't worship fire." <---- of course this argument is invalid.
Your SCHOLARS can do ijtihad whereas regular cult members are forbidden from doing ijtihad right? So it is your school which is DOGMATIC.
You didn't destroy anything.
You just invite people to the path of IDOL-WORSHIP. -
Salaam,
Like when in horror movies Zombies would say "Join us! Join us!".
God bless you
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You are a freaking racist! and yet you guys barely understand Arabic, what an irony!
Persians did tremendous service to Islamic civilisation. Arabs were indeed barbarians before the advent of Islam, there is no doubt about it and the Persian civilisation was a dominant force in the world.
You seem to hint the Persian conspiracy theory, we have the likes of Salman Al-Farisi, a great noble companion of the Holy Messenger (sawa).
There's nothing racist with the statement you quoted.
I don't thing saying "Nazism is from Germany" is making racist remarks against all Germans.
"Arabs were Barbarians before the advent of Islam". So who's racist here? YOU. Because you generalized all the Arabs before Islam. Don't you know that there were also poor Arab and poor Arab slaves at that time?
You are a complete joke.Anyway please join the thread "the insanity of the clergy". This thread talks about teachings of Shia.
Have a nice day.
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B
Dont act like a kid, being a Slave of Prophet (sawa) does not mean i am not the slave of Allah, your sect is worse than the wahabis.Every single thing taken out of context and blinded by the key words tawheed and shirk. When someone question why the words in Quran is mentioned in this manner?
you reply it is metaphoric, so i cant be methaphoric. I have faith in Allah that He is Almighty and knows what is in my heart and i have not taken Rasul (sallahu alaihi wa aaleh) as my "Rab"
You are the one who acts like a kid and irrationally.
Actually it is your fellow Shia cult members that love taking verses out of context.
We are only obliged to submit to GOD, not humans or things.
We are not like Wahhabis because we don't killing each other, we don't insult, belittle women, we don't idol-worship Muhammad, we don't believe in superstitions such as Mahdi.
Whereas your Shia condones hurting oneself.
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Salam.
Anyway the first question that you quoted into your post was actually directed to me.
Yes, I know. I was only speaking on behalf of all those who are accused as being racists for pointing out the Persian origins of sectarian Islam.
Thanks and regards.
The two weighty things known as thaqalyn in Arabic. Our Infallible Imams are appointed to safeguard the message of the Quran.
The message of the Quran was safeguarded by Allah Himself. It is our duty to REFLECT on its signs.
I regret to say that your "Infallible Imams", descendants of the princess "Shahar Baneh", are a Persian invention.
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The message of the Quran was safeguarded by Allah Himself. It is our duty to REFLECT on its signs.
You seem stuck to a point mate. It seems like you are heading to the path of a clear check-mate!
How did Allah safeguard his message? did He come and compile the Quran and hand it over to your hands?
Allah All-Mighty's revelation was done through Imam Al-Mursaleen wa Anbiya Muhammad Al-Mustafa (sallahu allaihi wa aaleh) while duty to compile and check the Quran for consistency was done by whom?
Are you aware that the 2nd Caliph Umar (The father of the rejecters of tradition) compiled the Quran on his own wimps and fancies, removed verses like Mut'ah, blurred the verses in the Quran and arranged it in such a manner to disable the functionality of the Quran.
You are only perfecting what was left by your master Umar, please return to the right path shown by our Prophet (sawa) through the guidance of his successor Ameer ul Mumineen Ali bin Abi Talib Imam Al Mutaqqi, Sahib Al Liwa Fi Yaum ul Qiyammah Alaihisalam.
I regret to say that your "Infallible Imams", descendants of the princess "Shahar Baneh", are a Persian invention.
Firstly, there is nothing regretful for having royal blood? it is a source of pride. The story of Shahr Bano' is not confirmed to be authentic and there are many doubts on this narration. This is not the avenue for us to discuss the lineage of the Ahlul Bayt Mutahireen.
Secondly, descendants generally paternal and the paternal side is strengthen by Master of the Arabs and Ajam, Imam Syed Al Shuhada Hussayn alaihisalam.
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Your SCHOLARS can do ijtihad whereas regular cult members are forbidden from doing ijtihad right? So it is your school which is DOGMATIC.
Yo kido! you were brainwashed to the max!
This is like saying only DOCTORS can diagnose and prescribe medication for you! off course, if you are "good enough" to find a cure for cancer then why the heck you need a doctor?
similarly our maraje' have spent many years in the Hawza dedicated their lives towards learning and understanding religion.
There is a Quranic verse which states that there will be group amongst you that will do Jihad and another group will learn the laws of Islam...
Thet are the doctors of the deen and it is better to consult a qualified doctor than to consult an unqualified one or a self-made one like yourself and your teacher here.
Kid listen you seem to be obsessed with Tawhid similar to your Wahabbi comrades and you are abusing this term.
I can assure you by Allah that I have never worshipped anyone besides Allah and isnt intention that counts?
I have shown you that verses were dropped from the current Quran on the instruction of the Taghyun oppressors to suit their understandings.
There are over 100+ over narrations on the permissibility of Mut'ah and there was huge resistance in Macca against banning mut'ah as done by Umar and his followers.
I am surprised how you not only rejected "traditions" but also history and you cast doubts on all other sources beside the Quran.
Is this how you see the world? The Quran is not meant to be an all in comprehensive encyclopaedia as you wish it should be but rather a book of guidance.
You have not only rejected history but also stripped the Quran of commentaries, what justice have you done?
The verse that your whole system hinges upon is not clear, Allah did not specify how he will safeguard the Quran through what means is it by the compilation of the Quran by Umar and Co or is through the Purified Household of the Prophet (sawa)?
So, come to your senses and join our school!
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Anyway please join the thread "the insanity of the clergy". This thread talks about teachings of Shia.
The issues highlighted are far too many to debate in one thread. The problem with people here is that you seem to measure us on the same arm's length as the sunnis which is a terrible mistake and you have seen the consequences.
What consequences?
The statement made by your Pozozo teacher that Mut'ah is prostitution!
You also mentioned that Thiqat ul Islam Sheikh Al Kulayni made up the narrations regarding Mut'ah.
I have proven to you through authentic Sahih narrations that Mut'ah was permissible and it was part of the revelation of the Quran.
told you, you are breakfast to me eat
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Are you aware that the 2nd Caliph Umar (The father of the rejecters of tradition) compiled the Quran on his own wimps and fancies, removed verses like Mut'ah, blurred the verses in the Quran and arranged it in such a manner to disable the functionality of the Quran.
You are only perfecting what was left by your master Umar, please return to the right path shown by our Prophet (sawa) through the guidance of his successor Ameer
+salaam sword of tashayyu
I am forced to react to this arrogant ignorance mixed with a false pride. What is this paper sword that you are brandishing here? Have you forgotten how your kind have always melted in the presence of my kind. Betrayal and deceit are your known history.
Now I am the sword of ALLAAH through Al-Amiyr/Imaam Zayd ibn Ali ibn Al-Husayn ibn Ali ibn Abi Taalib.Have you forgotten how you betrayed Imaam Ali
Have you forgotten how you betrayed Imaam Husayn
Have you forgotten how you betrayed Imaam Zayd ibn Ali Zaynu-l-Aabidiyn ibn Al-Husayn
Have you forgotten how you betrayed Imaam Yahyaa ibn ZaydHave you forgotten how through your cowardice and deceit you handed these servants of ALLAAH over to the worst forms of death and degradation.
Your people must be ranking among the lowest in human history.Have you read the Sahifa of my 41st ancestor Imaam Ali Zaynu-l-Aabidiyn. Have you read the discussion between al-mutawakkil and Imaam Yahyaa ibn Zayd. If not go read it so that your delusions can be dispelled.
You invite these forum members to Shiachat where they can learn. Are you crazy? Have you gone nuts? From one confusion to one worse. These people here are better than you. At least they do not deny the purity of ALLAAH's Qur'aan.
Are you a foot soldier of Macisaac (tashayyu.org)- Administrator of Shiachat. Were you there when I gave them a good hiding so that they did not know where to hide their heads. The fears that struck them, The fears that I was destroying the place and causing confusion in the minds of the forums Twelver Shia citizens. Where you there when they had no alternative to issue me with a ban? What a bunch of hypocritical losers and cowards.
I am waiting for your challenge here or anywhere else in the world. I will meet you anywhere anytime.
May ALLAAH be pleased with "Umar ibn al-khaTTaab.
The Sword of Truth through Al-Amiyr Zayd ibn Ali
+salaam
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May ALLAAH be pleased with "Umar ibn al-khaTTaab.
This was the first thing that caught my eye, lol.
O Umari, isnt this forum for Quranists and i have virtually demolished their school and uprooted it, now comes an Umari.
When Ubay' bin Ka'ab (ra) was narrating ahadith, he was reprimanded by the Idol of Quraish aka Umar and the great companion asked the Idol of Quraish, have I attributed any lies to the Prophet (sawa)?, the Idol of Quraish replied No, but "I dislike the narration of the Hadith of the Prophet"
Maybe it is OK for you accept the Idols of Quraish who also usurped the Wilayah of Ameer ul Mumineen (as) and Fadak, No betrayal?
Imam al-Ghazali states
The People and Scholars agree upon the context of the narration of the sermon on the day of Ghadir Khum in which the Prophet (pbuh) said; "Whoever I am the master then Ali is the master."
Then Umar said 'Congratulations! Congratulations! O Abul Hasan (Title of Imam Ali), you have become my master and the master of every master.'
(al-Ghazali continues) This speech shows complete acceptance, submission and confirmation (of Ali's leadership) by Umar. However after that, he (i.e. Umar) was defeated by his desire and love of power in becoming Caliph, and he was dominated by desire, and the desire to hold the flag of leadership, and the joy to open and conquer states, and by that they (i.e. Umar, Abu Bakr and their cohorts in Saqifa) reverted to the early phase, they dispensed with the agreement (of Ghadir Khum) and sold it at a low price.
And also the Prophet (pbuh) in his last illness before his death said ?Bring me a tablet and ink-pot, so that I may write for whom is the successor after me and solve all the problems and mention to you, "Who is worthy of successorship after me." Whereupon Umar said "Don?t bring it, the man is talking nonsense."
Source Sirr al-Alamayn by Imam al-Ghazali, page 23,I can go on and on breaking your idol down to pieces.
Dont mention the names of the Imams of Ahlul Bayt when you also love their enemies who destroyed Islam.
Do not drag the names of others, be professional and debate here and provide rebuttal if you can, if not move aside and do not stand on my path!
Wsalam
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Have you forgotten how your kind have always melted in the presence of my kind. Betrayal and deceit are your known history.
I have not forgotten this! if by this sentence you take pride in being a Nasibi you have invoked the wrath of Allah.
We have certainly not forgotten how your leaders sold our women in the market.
May Allah gather you amongst Abu Bakr Umar, Uthman, Muawiya, Yazid and the Jews!
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This was the first thing that caught my eye, lol.
O Umari, isnt this forum for Quranists and i have virtually demolished their school and uprooted it, now comes an Umari.
When Ubay' bin Ka'ab (ra) was narrating ahadith, he was reprimanded by the Idol of Quraish aka Umar and the great companion asked the Idol of Quraish, have I attributed any lies to the Prophet (sawa)?, the Idol of Quraish replied No, but "I dislike the narration of the Hadith of the Prophet"
Maybe it is OK for you accept the Idols of Quraish who also usurped the Wilayah of Ameer ul Mumineen (as) and Fadak, No betrayal?
I can go on and on breaking your idol down to pieces.
Dont mention the names of the Imams of Ahlul Bayt when you also love their enemies who destroyed Islam.
Do not drag the names of others, be professional and debate here and provide rebuttal if you can, if not move aside and do not stand on my path!
Wsalam
Listen you are a fake with nothing to stand on. Do not use my family for your stupidities. Why are you afraid to challenge me? Are you afraid because you know that I will make mincemeat out of your deviant sects fabrications and imaginations. You and your people are a highly misguided and ill mannered conglomeration of wild imaginations. The members of this forum are princess and princesses compared to where you come from.
I will prove that you are a knowledgeless unmannered liar with nothing to stand on. I was the first to welcome you here with full respect and then you turned out to be a ruffian. So let me see how strong your sword is.
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I have not forgotten this! if by this sentence you take pride in being a Nasibi you have invoked the wrath of Allah.
We have certainly not forgotten how your leaders sold our women in the market.
May Allah gather you amongst Abu Bakr Umar, Uthman, Muawiya, Yazid and the Jews!
Listen I am the documented 40th direct descendant of Zayd ibn Ali ibn Al-Husayn ibn Abi Taalib. We are the true living Imaams and Amiyrs. Have you forgotten how you betrayed my great ancestor Imaam and Amiyr Zayd. Don't play stupid! Go look into your raafiDiy history and see how our cousins (your imams) have been the sitters at home among the woman when we were the fighters against the kuffaar Ummayad Rulers. It was our line of the family of the prophet (S+) whom the Umayyads and Abbasids hunted down with your help and killed as you guys clapped hands as you jumped up and down rejoicing. The blood of the family of the messenger of ALLAAH will never be cleaned from your people. Don't now come and act innocent!
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O Umari, isnt this forum for Quranists and i have virtually demolished their school and uprooted it, now comes an Umari.
told you, you are breakfast to me eat
I am new here, but my deen is Tashayyu', shia of Ameer ul Mumineen (as)
I realised people here are Quranist. I follow what my Master Abul Qasim (sawa) told us I leave behind two weighty things Quran and my 'Itrah Ahlul Bayti.
Don't lie! Nowhere does it say this! Can you present your proofs? Do you even know what the actual statement means? Let's see if you're a delusional liar or not? Let's see how you respond to your own medicine.
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Go look into your raafiDiy history and see how our cousins (your imams) have been the sitters at home among the woman when we were the fighters against the kuffaar Ummayad Rulers.
We are proud of our rafidha history, you have insulted a distinctive and outstanding member of Ahlul Bayt Imam Ja'afar Al-Sadiq (alaihisalam) despite the fact i have not touched your Imam. You have the nerve to associate yourself to the Ahlul Bayt, how dare you!
You and your disillusion of the Sahaba wonder-land. Many brave Rawafidh faught in the armies of your Imam, the companion of Imam Sadiq (as) ie Abu Hamza Al Thumayli sacrificed all his sons for Imam Zayd and Abul Jarud also fought and were martyred, are they not true-blooded rafidha?
The propaganda was propped up by Ummaya and the Batriya like you who associate yourself with the enemies of Allah!
Sudayer said that he went together with Salamah bin Kuhail and others to meet Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (peace be upon him).Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (peace be upon him) was with his brother Zaid bin Ali, some of those who were in the council said to Zaid 'we are loyal to Ali and Hassan and Hussain and renounce their enemies', Zaid said 'good!'
Then they said but we also are loyal to Abi Bakr and Omar and renounce their enemies, Zaid then turned towards them and said 'so you also renounce Fatima, you have cut off/ stranded/isolated/ discontinued/ or cut short our case, may Allah Al Might cut you out'. From that moment they became known as the Batryah because the verb cut off or cut short in Arabic means (batara)You praise those who reject the ahadith also and you take pride in your lineage to the Ahlul Bayt at the same time you call Imam Al-Sadiq (as) a coward (na'azubillah) and to the extent of likening him to a woman. When I attack the Idols of Quraish, you infuriate!
All these are signs of nasb in you, you have earned the wrath of Allah by belittling his Walis (friends) and defending his enemies who seek to destroy Islam.
Arrogance? whom? you or me, reflect.
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Don't lie! Nowhere does it say this! Can you present your proofs? Do you even know what the actual statement means? Let's see if you're a delusional liar or not? Let's see how you respond to your own medicine.
The hadith of thaqalyn is famous and it is Sahih as per the conditions of Amma. I dont have to debate linguistics with you.
You are a liar, i have met real zaidis and they were far better than you.
you are one of those fake Zaidi Umaris abusing the Zaidi Mathab to hit us Rawafidh.
On the issue of cowardice, i got bad news for you, your Umar fled from the battlefield like a "mountain goat" in his own words in Uhud and again who ran away during the uprising of your Imam Nafs Zakiyya in Madeena? who committed the treachery isnt not the Sunnis? you are a hypocrite if you deny this
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Listen you are a fake with nothing to stand on. Do not use my family for your stupidities. Why are you afraid to challenge me? Are you afraid because you know that I will make mincemeat out of your deviant sects fabrications and imaginations. You and your people are a highly misguided and ill mannered conglomeration of wild imaginations. The members of this forum are princess and princesses compared to where you come from.
Bring it on!
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Salaam,
The imams may have been good people, but no one but God is infallible. And you should not idolize and take them as masters. You should listen to them of they have something righteous to say, otherwise they are a hoax.
If they tell you to respect them excessively then it is a lie and they never told anyone to praise them in chorus with "allahumma saly ala Muhammad wa ahle Muhammad". That is a polytheistic expression invented by the clergy and it is not just about sending peace upon Muhammad and his family, the intention here is idolatry.
I respect those Shia muslims around me who wish to follow the alleged guidance from imams, the twelvers, to believers, but I denounce their excessive idolatry. I believe humans can be mediators between God and believers in form of kind of correspondents as God Himself does not get directly involved in the affairs of this temporary illusive world. The blessed people are simply pieces of a grand chess table who are "mouths of God", but that does not make these people infallible or better than others just due to their religions chores.
There are many fake mouths of God and it takes some good relationship to God to be guided enough not to follow the ones who only utter conjecture.
Best for you is to firsthandedly study and follow the Quran to the best of your ability despite its interpretation is severely hampered by corruption and after that use your logic and reason. Much can also be done through simple intuition and since you know the only important aspect apart from belief in God and eternal existence is being a good and pure person it is not much to dispute.
You can even be a good Believer without the Quran, even if it is a bonus indeed, a guide sent down as a mercy from God.
God bless you
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Yo kido! you were brainwashed to the max!
This is like saying only DOCTORS can diagnose and prescribe medication for you! off course, if you are "good enough" to find a cure for cancer then why the heck you need a doctor?Your SCHOLARS can do ijtihad whereas regular cult members are forbidden from doing ijtihad right? So it is your school which is DOGMATIC.
First of all this is a SARCASM to your quote
We are not rigid and we are the most dynamic school of thought, our scholars can do ijtihad.
Don't put words into my mouth, idolater! I did not say that I believe that only scholars can think for us. I was talking about YOUR sect. In fact most sola-scritura / sectarian-free muslims like me don't think that it is only scholars can do ijtihad and think for us. We use our GOD-gifted brains to think! We reject taqlid. Unlike your sect, which is full of idol-worship, and only Shia scholars can do ijtihad for their Shia cultmembers.
similarly our maraje' have spent many years in the Hawza dedicated their lives towards learning and understanding religion.
Enid Blyton also had spent years making and writing fictional stories and fairytales. Does that mean that we also have to believe in his stories? nope
Ancient Greeks had also spent years concocting mythology. Does that mean that we have to believe in their myths? NO. nopeThet are the doctors of the deen and it is better to consult a qualified doctor than to consult an unqualified one or a self-made one like yourself and your teacher here.
Of course we listen to MANY knowledgeable people. Listening/learning from and blind-following are two different things.
Kid listen you seem to be obsessed with Tawhid similar to your Wahabbi comrades and you are abusing this term.
You keep making false allegations. I have already told you that we reject the idolization of Muhammad, intercessions, Mahdi, Dajjal. So what kind of tawhid that you are talking about? We reject the killing of apostates, 72 virgins in heaven, demeaning women. Whereas Wahhabis believe in all these garbage.
I can assure you by Allah that I have never worshipped anyone besides Allah and isnt intention that counts?
You said that you have Shia masters.
Your fellow Shia members say "Ya Ali" etc.
"Never worshipped" you said?I have shown you that verses were dropped from the current Quran on the instruction of the Taghyun oppressors to suit their understandings.
No, it is just the corrution done by your Shia scholars.
There are over 100+ over narrations on the permissibility of Mut'ah and there was huge resistance in Macca against banning mut'ah as done by Umar and his followers.
No, you are just falsifying stories. Nowhere does it say in the Qur'an that "Enjoy marriage as long as you can and divorce whenever you want when you have been satisfied by your spouses"
So far, how many times have you done mutaa? What is the longest time taken your mutaa has been and what is the shortest time taken your mutaa has been? 1 hour? 2 weeks?I am surprised how you not only rejected "traditions" but also history and you cast doubts on all other sources beside the Quran.
What kind of traditions?
Hurting oneself with knife? &
I don't reject the history but I don't blindly accept the hadiths (both Sunnis and Shia} as true.Is this how you see the world? The Quran is not meant to be an all in comprehensive encyclopaedia as you wish it should be but rather a book of guidance.
Correct. It is a book of guidance.
You have not only rejected history but also stripped the Quran of commentaries, what justice have you done?
Commentaries of Qur'an? There is no "until an appointed time" in the verse of the Qur'an that you posted. "until an appointed time" is just an addition from the corruptor to the verse.
I don't reject history. Shia doctrine came into existence centuries later, much later than 1200CE.The verse that your whole system hinges upon is not clear, Allah did not specify how he will safeguard the Quran through what means is it by the compilation of the Quran by Umar and Co or is through the Purified Household of the Prophet (sawa)?
Your question and statement show that you don't believe in the limitlessness of God Almighty.
So, come to your senses and join our school!
No, I don't want to idolize Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain etc. It is a shirk.
Click Here The Insanity of the Clergy
We want to see your inputs on the Sunni-Shia clergy thread.Oh GOD please forbid this thing
http//ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4947567227373420&pid=15.1 -
The hadith of thaqalyn is famous and it is Sahih as per the conditions of Amma. I dont have to debate linguistics with you.
You are a liar, i have met real zaidis and they were far better than you.
you are one of those fake Zaidi Umaris abusing the Zaidi Mathab to hit us Rawafidh.
On the issue of cowardice, i got bad news for you, your Umar fled from the battlefield like a "mountain goat" in his own words in Uhud and again who ran away during the uprising of your Imam Nafs Zakiyya in Madeena? who committed the treachery isnt not the Sunnis? you are a hypocrite if you deny this
Oh! I have been waiting for one of you for a long time. If you will not run away soon with your head between your legs all will see the rottenness of the foundation of lies upon which your imaginations limps.
Let me make this clear. I am not a Zaydiy. I am the 28th descendant of abuw naSr al-amiyr sulaymaan al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy who was the 12th descendant of al-amiyr zayd ibn ali. We are the line of the imaams who went into hiding as recorded in the historical books of those years. With us is the hidden book (al-kitaab) which our cousin (your sixth imaam) imaam ja"far aS-Saadiq so much bragged about that he physically possessed. Do you even know what I am talking about. Read this post so that you can be enlightened.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605709.msg334950#msg334950