Gay and Muslim?

huruf

Peace all

And DO NOT marry polytheistic women until they believe <- comparison
And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist
even though she might please you

And DO NOT marry polytheistic men until they believe <- comparison
And a believing slave is better than a polytheist
even though he might please you

Those invite to the Fire
but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission
And He makes clear His verses to the people
that perhaps they may remember

And they ask you about menstruation <- cf. homosexuality
Say, "It is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation
And DO NOT approach them until they are pure
And when they have purified themselves
then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you
Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant
and loves those who purify themselves."
(2221-222)

Why "marriage" is unlawful to the believers?

Is it because of "non-commitments"?

Salam handshake

I do not understand your messag if it has anything to do with what I wrote. You say

"showing or proving sex is legal without marriage"

You have got it all wrong. You are separating sex from the law of God. Sex IS marriage. Sex is not wanting to marry or not wanting it, sex is consumating whatever marriage consists of. And on doing so, you are in fact giving sanction to gay marriage, because you make sex relationship between a man and a woman and if marriage is something different form that, any two persons could be entitled to it.

But what the Qur'an is enjoining is that

Believing Muhsanat are approved for you and muhsanat of the people who received previous revelations IF you pay them their dues and desire propriety and not debauchery. 5.5.

4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners...

?where do you see here a marriage as distinct from a sexual relationship? The sexual relationship by itself is sacred according to God in the Qur'an, it is men's lustful, bestial leanings, which devoid sex form its sacred character making out of it a pastime, and which makes of some women, prisoners of a "legal marriage, and makes of other women prostitutes, because the "users choose to make it secret and a pastime.

It is not the fact that it is extramatrimonial sex it is the fact that sex, a holy gift from our creator, the source of life and generations is desecrated and converted into shit. That is the crime, the sin, the monumental dirty that has taken over the minds of society. Minds that have shitted on God's command contained in 4.1 "Ittaqwu-llah... walarHam" (reverence God... and the wombs). Most male and female mentalities do not reverence the arHam. They are blind, they desecrate the favours and gists of God as if they were toys for spoilt kids.

YES MARRIAGE IS SEX AND SEX IS MARRIAGE. And anythign other than that is desecration. That is why divorce is allowed, so that we never have to lie in bed, wo that we never have to lie with our guts, with our wombs. So that we do not desecrate the source of life and people, the people we are.

YES, MARRIAGE IS SEX AND SEX IS MARRIAGE. Anything other than that is desecration.

Salaam

Well, it is clear that it is nto talking about any paper or formality

DrGm

YES, MARRIAGE IS SEX AND SEX IS MARRIAGE. Anything other than that is desecration.

Well, it is clear that it is nto talking about any paper or formality

peace,

straight path

muslims

I do not understand your messag if it has anything to do with what I wrote. You say

"showing or proving sex is legal without marriage"

You have got it all wrong. You are separating sex from the law of God. Sex IS marriage. Sex is not wanting to marry or not wanting it, sex is consumating whatever marriage consists of. And on doing so, you are in fact giving sanction to gay marriage, because you make sex relationship between a man and a woman and if marriage is something different form that, any two persons could be entitled to it.

But what the Qur'an is enjoining is that

Believing Muhsanat are approved for you and muhsanat of the people who received previous revelations IF you pay them their dues and desire propriety and not debauchery. 5.5.

4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners...

?where do you see here a marriage as distinct from a sexual relationship? The sexual relationship by itself is sacred according to God in the Qur'an, it is men's lustful, bestial leanings, which devoid sex form its sacred character making out of it a pastime, and which makes of some women, prisoners of a "legal marriage, and makes of other women prostitutes, because the "users choose to make it secret and a pastime.

It is not the fact that it is extramatrimonial sex it is the fact that sex, a holy gift from our creator, the source of life and generations is desecrated and converted into shit. That is the crime, the sin, the monumental dirty that has taken over the minds of society. Minds that have shitted on God's command contained in 4.1 "Ittaqwu-llah... walarHam" (reverence God... and the wombs). Most male and female mentalities do not reverence the arHam. They are blind, they desecrate the favours and gists of God as if they were toys for spoilt kids.

YES MARRIAGE IS SEX AND SEX IS MARRIAGE. And anythign other than that is desecration. That is why divorce is allowed, so that we never have to lie in bed, wo that we never have to lie with our guts, with our wombs. So that we do not desecrate the source of life and people, the people we are.

YES, MARRIAGE IS SEX AND SEX IS MARRIAGE. Anything other than that is desecration.

Salaam

Well, it is clear that it is nto talking about any paper or formality

Salam

Sex = Marriage
Marriage = Sex
Therefore, there is only "Marriage"

Therefore, "Sex" must be defined according to "Marriage" (God's Law).

Is this your point? Okay, I got it.

However my point sex is not marriage because there are other living creatures make sex and it is not marriages. People can make sex between same gender but it is not marriages. It is not marriages but it is sexual conducts (some say sexual misconducts). Sex is for all but marriage is for human beings. Sex is about conducts but marriage is about duties (contract - deen), even during the sexual conducts itself. In fact by defining "sex" is "marriage", we are lowering the standard of marriage to the standard of other living creatures. Marriage is not sex, marriage is higher than sex and are valid for human beings, not animals (*the Qur'an acknowledge some human beings are equal to animals, and animals will not be punished for having multiple couples for sex).

http//s23.postimg.org/6v0clr24r/marriage.png

I will not make gay 100% wrong because there are some valid arguments (not here), and they are also arguing "Sex" is "Marriage" and therefore it should be legalized. They have their own definition and concept of "Marriage" which I quite agree with them, even though sometimes sounds too perfect and not answering to realities. What I do not agree is the parties to their marriages, a small fraction of their arguments. It is without clear authority from the Qur'an (or any other religious books, religions, laws etc) and is inconsistent with the overall system of life. It is unjust. Therefore, they can make sex in any terms and manner they like, but it is not "Marriages". This is equally applied to prostitution or mut'ah etc, it is not marriages. It is sex, and there are lawful sexual conducts, and unlawful sexual conducts. For Muslim and if we have done our duty to hear and confirm their "reasons", we just say "Enjoy Yourselves!". There is no compulsion and they are free to choose their livings, as long it is private offence** and does not harm the society.

Peace

p/s Marriage is not sex and that's why people are referring marriages as the "INSTITUTION" of marriage. Can we say the "institution" of sex?

(**Is it a private offence? It involves two parties and can be considered as a public offence, an offering to the public to join the offeror committing an offence, harming the other party and exposing them to various infections or diseases to the other, their family and relatives (+humiliation) and the society at large; cf. abettors, non-payment of taxes or zakat, and punishment for adultery, ie. it is a public sentence. Private is related to one single entity, you alone and without contacts with two or more persons, eg. leaving prayers.)

huruf

No, no, no. We all know you can prostitute yourself and sex around with hundreds. I am not talking about that, about what people or animals can do, I am talking about ehat the Qur'an says. As ytou can see from the ayas I quoted in the Qur'an marriage is not distinct from sex between a woman and a man. That is precisely what it keeps saying that what you do with your flesh is marriage, but that you transgress when you out into your head that you can have sex that is not a real engagement and that besides that you can have sex merely as go go to the circus, for mere fun and no engagement, It is so clear. Because it doe snot say those you can marry but those that are allowed or are prohibited to you. The translators put in brackets (for marriage or something similar) but that is not in the original.

That is the Qur'an. If youa re talking about something else then there is no reason to discuss anything. You can have whatever you want, but not form the Qur'an. So gay marriage is out of the question since marriage, nikah for the Qur'an is between a man and a woman.

But as I pointed out, there is no reason for any society not to allow, I think it should be allowed, because not allowing it is tyrannical against people, for any two or more persons to contract sharing a home, sharing obligations, in whichever terms they agree, be they of the same sex or of different sex. Contract inssurances for the partners, etc. That would be sharing a good part of life, but would not be marriage.

Such as people are putting forth now the question of same sex marriage in fact they are hindering any two people of the same sex that do not want to inolve sex to declare themselves homosexuals, even if they are nto interested in sex, merely interested in sharing life or commitments with no sex involved. That is either discrimination because of sexual inclinations or privileging somebody with more rights to contract because of their sex life which in fact concerns only themselves.

So just let us keep to Qur'an, we all know that anybody can have sex with anybody and with animals and with isntruments and the lot. The Qur'an does not talk about that. The Qur'an clearly means that sex is marriage and if sex is anything else, then you are transgressing. I am talking about sex between a woman and a man. There is no injunction in the Qur'an about the behaviour to be followed for prople of the same sex to have sex realtions. At least I can't recall such.

Salaam

muslims

Salam

I am talking about ehat the Qur'an says. As ytou can see from the ayas I quoted in the Qur'an marriage is not distinct from sex between a woman and a man.

4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners...

?where do you see here a marriage as distinct from a sexual relationship?

RED is mine

Please explain how does the above ayat is the authority for making an assumption that "sex is marriage, and marriage is sex".

Secondly,

But as I pointed out, there is no reason for any society not to allow, I think it should be allowed, because not allowing it is tyrannical against people, for any two or more persons to contract sharing a home, sharing obligations, in whichever terms they agree, be they of the same sex or of different sex. Contract inssurances for the partners, etc. That would be sharing a good part of life, but would not be marriage.

RED Is mine

I believe this will involve different issues, ie. "Whether gay is a public offence or private offence?". Why it is an offence when it is private between two individuals? Why prostitution is an offence?

(**Is it a private offence? It involves two parties and can be considered as a public offence, an offering to the public to join the offeror committing an offence, harming the other party and exposing them to various infections or diseases to the other, their family and relatives (+humiliation) and the society at large; cf. abettors, non-payment of taxes or zakat, and punishment for adultery, ie. it is a public sentence. Private is related to one single entity, you alone and without contacts with two or more persons, eg. leaving prayers.)

Peace peace

huruf

Salam

RED is mine

Please explain how does the above ayat is the authority for making an assumption that "sex is marriage, and marriage is sex".

Secondly,

RED Is mine

I believe this will involve different issues, ie. "Whether gay is a public offence or private offence?". Why it is an offence when it is private between two individuals? Why prostitution is an offence?

Peace peace

Please explain how does the above ayat is the authority for making an assumption that " "sex is marriage, and marriage is sex".

What is it talking about according to you? What does show in the aya that sex could be a distinct thing for marriage and that you could have sex but not give ujur and have it secret? Precisely what it is doing is not stating that you are making a contract but hat the thingW, in itself, to God's law is the contract, when you take a woman it is always before God, it is not on His back or IN SECRET. You are taking an undertaking. God is nto saying you need so and so and formalise so and so, it is saying that those women are allowed BY HIM to you if you do so and so. Obviously it is talking about sex. Or if you take it that it is not talking about sex, about what is it talking, it does not say marriage at all. There is no escape form it. When you engage in sex with a women, you are engaging with a women, full stop. There is no "I did not mean to marry her". God does nto allow such tricks. The fact that mentally people are usually schizofrenic as towhat is a relationship between a man and a woman as sexes, they are trampling on God's law. What, do you think that because you do it hiding and not undetaking any obligation that God is turning a blind eye on what you do with that he calls a mithaq ghaliDhan? You have crank too much of male irresposibility and female too in latest years, but it is a human product, no a divine product. And even it has not been always so. In earlier centuries society did expect of men, even when they did not contract officially anything that thy did acknowledge publicly their relationships and their offspring. The male obliviousness to that is fairley recent in western thought, and it has permeated oriental thought making for orientals the worst of two worlds. In the XV-XVI centuries, at least in Spanish scope, it was nto a shame not to be officially married and still have relationships and have children. Men did acknowledge those relationships publicly and acknoledged their offspring publicly. Later that changed, but it was clear to them as it is clear to anybody that is not brainwashed, that people, naas, are not animals nor ignorant of humanness and God's given fitra, and the same as they are not animals for other things they are not so either for their flesh relationships ans their offspring.

It is the Satanic way to disintegrate and to separate, cody from mind, body from heart, and go on to say that they do not have anything to do.

So next thing we are going to say is that children do not exist because there is no contrac on them, and that if there is no official certificate of birth they do not exist? No, the birth is nto the paper or de official, clerical certification of the birth, that is what others do with respect to it, but they are not the fact of the birth. The same with the relationship, you may be oblivious to its engagement, but IT IS THERE AND REAL. We may forget it at our won risk and cheat ourselves as much as we want. God is nto cheated. God's sees through all the tricks and God will make us see the truth, billingly or unwillingly, and we will se hell through our blindness to think that what we name is what it is. God is telling us int he Qur'an what it is. He is not talking about a paper, papers are for our protection on this earth from being cheated or being confused, it is not for our hearts, our hearts know how we do. And mahy times we muflle them up and do not let them talk to us.

Any way, separate flesh from paper as much as we want. We do it against ourselves.

This divorce, between deed and paper, between flesh and ming, and heart, is a sign of disintegration. i think that the world in many things has come forward, even in moral things, fortunately, but on others we are mightily deluded. We are very clever with our tongues and mind tricks, but we are deluded in many other things. Some males tend to think that they can compartimentalize what is a real relationship and what is just nothing, why? because they are nothing when they engage in nothing. They become nothing in order for the things they do to mean nothing.

Same with the women who have followed their example. Too bad the women's liberation, well overdue an still overdue, was so arranged that the women became as bad as the males and no the other way round. But since we have that default setting that males are perfect and if anybody wants to be perfect they should become as a male, there we are.

So marriage and sex are to separate things. Does God say that, please quote HIM.

Salaam

unknownuser

Sex = Marriage
Marriage = Sex
Therefore, there is only "Marriage"

Therefore, "Sex" must be defined according to "Marriage" (God's Law)

I already get discusccion about gay in many times in this thread.
We cannot understand Islam by using human's definition.

I suggest you read ayat 780. In that ayat Luth said if Sodom do lewdness (faahisyah) which never be done by any humans before, but according to historical study the homosexual already happened before Luth's era.This is very exsplisit if what lewdness Luth means is not homosexual.

I already wrote many posts about this POST 1, POST 2.

I do not fully support homosexs, instead I saw that act is forbidden or not based on what the cause of the homosexual.

Cheers.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Homosexuality is against the design, but is not against nature. We are not designed for homosexual intercourse, but it still exists in nature.

God bless you

muslims

Salam huruf,

Let me highlight the issue so we are able to focus. The issue is...

ISSUE Whether sex is marriage, and marriage is sex.

Your conclusion (REFER HERE)
My conclusion (REFER HERE)

Firstly,

So marriage and sex are to separate things. Does God say that, please quote HIM.

This is a clear ayat proving "marriage is not sex, and sex is not marriage". There are differences between the two words.

And lawful to you are beyond these
you seek them
with your property
desiring chastity
NOT unlawful SEXual intercourse <- sex is not marriage, marriage is not sex
(424)

Secondly,

What is it talking about according to you? What does show in the aya that sex could be a distinct thing for marriage and that you could have sex but not give ujur and have it secret? Precisely what it is doing is not stating that you are making a contract but hat the thingW, in itself, to God's law is the contract, when you take a woman it is always before God, it is not on His back or IN SECRET. You are taking an undertaking. God is nto saying you need so and so and formalise so and so, it is saying that those women are allowed BY HIM to you if you do so and so. Obviously it is talking about sex. Or if you take it that it is not talking about sex, about what is it talking, it does not say marriage at all. There is no escape form it. When you engage in sex with a women, you are engaging with a women, full stop.

So based on this one ayat that are explaining "how and when to select slave girls for wife" or the punishment for a "slave girls committing adultery", you are making a conclusion that the whole ayats in the Qur'an are mentioning "sex is marriage, and marriage is sex"? Allah is only speaking about sex?

How can that be? nope

The following is the ayat you are referring to, which I still cannot understand how it is supporting your argument that the context of the ayat is explaining "marriage is sex, and sex is marriage". It is totally irrelevant to your conclusion.

Please refer to the ayat and explain.

Topic Permission to marry Slave Girls

And whoever among you
cannot the means to marry FREE (not slave), believing women <- FIRST CONDITION

then <- PERMISSION TO MARRY SLAVE GIRLS,

from those whom your right hands possess <- condition (1)

of believing SLAVE GIRLS

And Allah is most knowing about your faith

You are of one another

So marry them <- CONTINUANCE OF PERMISSION (from above)

with the permission of their people <- condition (2)

and give them their due compensation <- condition (3)

according to what is acceptable <- condition (4)

chaste <- condition (5) - cannot marry slave girls!!!

neither those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly <- sub-condition (5) - (a)

nor those who take lovers <- sub-condition (5) - (b)

But once they are sheltered in marriage <- SECOND SITUATION/ new condition

if they should commit adultery <- if the "slave girls" commit an offence

then for them is half the punishment for free women
This is for him among you who fears sin

but to be patient is better for you <- GENERAL RULE, the above is an exception.
And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful (don't marry slave girls, marry free girls)

Allah wants to make clear to you <- reason for the above rules.
and guide you to the practices of those before you Is explaining marriage is sex, sex is marriage?
and to accept your repentance
And Allah is Knowing and Wise

(425-26)

It is clear that Allah is explaining "the practice of marrying slave girls", when, who, what, how it is allowed and prohibited. Allah is explaining "how to select slave girls for wife". Allah has prohibited to marry "slave girl that commit unlawful intercourse randomly or who take lovers". Allah is not explaining about sex, or "marriage is sex, and sex is marriage".

Please explain how the above ayat is explaining your conclusion that "marriage is sex, and sex is marriage". hmm

Peace

huruf

You are trying to prove your conclusion basing it on your conlusion. Do you mean to say that according to God's law sex can be separated from marriage? That is, that according to his law a sexual relationship is not marriage? Precisely what the Qur'an is telling believing men and women is that if they want to seprate sex from marriage they SHOULD NOT. That is it, God is pointing to the trick of making sex independent of marriage and condemns it and forbids it. So you may make a difference and separate both but that is precisely what God is forbidding, absolutely forbidding.Of course, God knows that human disbelief does that, but that is precisely what He forbids.

You are wasting your time trying to show me that sex and marriage are two different things. For whom are they different? For evil doers. For believers they are not. That is what God is making clear in the Qur'an.

So yoy think that because you do nto take seriously a sexual relationship God does not take it seriously? No He is telling you that you cannot do that. What is so difficult to understand in it. That doisbelievers and znis want to keep up their conventions of sex for use and throw and sex for social standing? That is human law, not God's law. That is desecration of wombs and desecration of people's most intimate and creative relationship, a sacred relationship. If you desecrate, does it means that for Gods stops being sacred?

Do you think that if you have a sexual relationship with your mother but do not marry her you are not trespassing on God's law?

Salaam

muslims

Salam huruf,

Do you mean to say that according to God's law sex can be separated from marriage?

REFER HERE

http//s23.postimg.org/6v0clr24r/marriage.png

take note the status of father-in-law and mother-in-law is much like your own father and mother. There are not party to the contract of marriage but equally affected by marriages. Is the Qur'an or INSTITUTION of marriage is all about sex? (ie. as per your argument that sex is marriage and marriage is sex) (3349), (2236-237), (55), (243) and (2233).

and in conclusion, I'm quoting your statement..

REFER HERE

That is the Qur'an. If youa re talking about something else then there is no reason to discuss anything. You can have whatever you want, but not form the Qur'an.

Peace peace

learning_truth81

You are trying to prove your conclusion basing it on your conlusion. Do you mean to say that according to God's law sex can be separated from marriage? That is, that according to his law a sexual relationship is not marriage? Precisely what the Qur'an is telling believing men and women is that if they want to seprate sex from marriage they SHOULD NOT. That is it, God is pointing to the trick of making sex independent of marriage and condemns it and forbids it. So you may make a difference and separate both but that is precisely what God is forbidding, absolutely forbidding.Of course, God knows that human disbelief does that, but that is precisely what He forbids.

You are wasting your time trying to show me that sex and marriage are two different things. For whom are they different? For evil doers. For believers they are not. That is what God is making clear in the Qur'an.

So yoy think that because you do nto take seriously a sexual relationship God does not take it seriously? No He is telling you that you cannot do that. What is so difficult to understand in it. That doisbelievers and znis want to keep up their conventions of sex for use and throw and sex for social standing? That is human law, not God's law. That is desecration of wombs and desecration of people's most intimate and creative relationship, a sacred relationship. If you desecrate, does it means that for Gods stops being sacred?

Do you think that if you have a sexual relationship with your mother but do not marry her you are not trespassing on God's law?

Salaam

So are you saying that as long as a gay couple have had sex and are faithful and committed to each other then they are to be considered married since sex and marriage are the same?

huruf

All the time I have been talking about the Qur'an, not about anything else, and I have also made aboundantly clear that the Qur'an does not give any command or injunciton regarding sex-marriage except between a woman and a man. It contains no injunctions regarding sex-marriage except in that composition, not any other mixtures.

So no, sex is marriage between a woman and a man, between anything else the Qur'an as far as I recall does not say nor provides for nor do I see any reason why it should. Sex other than between woman and man does not respond to any overriding need of any society. Sex between man an woman is an overriding need for the perpetuation of the species and of any society, but sex between anything else is of no consequence for society, so it is not important nor conditions that society. It may be important for an individual but for society it is absolutely meaningless. However, sex betwen men and women is fundamental and and therefore merits that God establishes clearly what the stakes are and all the obligations that derive from that.

Salaam

learning_truth81

All the time I have been talking about the Qur'an, not about anything else, and I have also made aboundantly clear that the Qur'an does not give any command or injunciton regarding sex-marriage except between a woman and a man. It contains no injunctions regarding sex-marriage except in that composition, not any other mixtures.

So no, sex is marriage between a woman and a man, between anything else the Qur'an as far as I recall does not say nor provides for nor do I see any reason why it should. Sex other than between woman and man does not respond to any overriding need of any society. Sex between man an woman is an overriding need for the perpetuation of the species and of any society, but sex between anything else is of no consequence for society, so it is not important nor conditions that society. It may be important for an individual but for society it is absolutely meaningless. However, sex betwen men and women is fundamental and and therefore merits that God establishes clearly what the stakes are and all the obligations that derive from that.

Salaam

Ok well said. Thanks.

muslims

All the time I have been talking about the Qur'an, not about anything else, and I have also made aboundantly clear that the Qur'an does not give any command or injunciton regarding sex-marriage except between a woman and a man. It contains no injunctions regarding sex-marriage except in that composition, not any other mixtures.

So no, sex is marriage between a woman and a man, between anything else the Qur'an as far as I recall does not say nor provides for nor do I see any reason why it should. Sex other than between woman and man does not respond to any overriding need of any society. Sex between man an woman is an overriding need for the perpetuation of the species and of any society, but sex between anything else is of no consequence for society, so it is not important nor conditions that society. It may be important for an individual but for society it is absolutely meaningless. However, sex betwen men and women is fundamental and and therefore merits that God establishes clearly what the stakes are and all the obligations that derive from that.

4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners...

?where do you see here a marriage as distinct from a sexual relationship?

RED is mine, inserted as premises.

Salam

The following is your conclusion and premises

Premise The Qur'an give command or injunciton regarding sex-marriage between a woman and a man. (comments)

Premise 4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners... (comments - fallacy)

Therefore Sex is marriage between a woman and a man (comments)
Marriage between a woman and a man is sex.

The definition of sexual intercourse

sexual contact between individuals <- comments
involving penetration

esp. the insertion of a man's erect penis
into a woman's vagina
typically culminating in orgasm
and the ejaculation of semen

("sexual contact involving penetration", ie. conduct, sexual conducts and not duty (deen) or institution)

Issue

According to the Qur'an etc., Prostitution is equally between a woman and a man, but it is not a marriage despite there is an engagement of sexual relations; ie. there is "penetration", and it is sexual intercourse.

So how can your theory explain this situation?

Is prostitution an institution of marriage?

Yes? No?

Which Ayat? Law? Dictionary?

Peace. peace

Man_of_Faith

Fare thee well,

Quran talks about normal relationships between man and woman and does not by any means even touch the area of homosexuality except perhaps the story of Lut. From logical deduction you can see that it is heterosexual marriages that are the standard. From a practical point of view the design of the sexes makes homosexual intercourse completely unproductive.

It seems to be innate in some individuals to be gay and nature itself is a testimony to that even but it is against the design. It is politically incorrect as someone said to say it might be a mental disorder and it is also difficult to know what goes on in the minds of these people too. Some people who were gay and forced themselves to live heterosexually often feel unhappy and it seems even if they try to make themselves get turned on by women they cannot.

It seems we have to accept that some people are homosexual and that they cannot be helped. It is difficult to cure someone on that mental level when you need to know exactly what goes on in the mind. Forcing them to be heterosexual will not help them and killing them is like killing something naturally occurring and thus no valid argument for it.

This topic is always intensively discussed and shows that it disturbs people.

God bless you

huruf

RED is mine, inserted as premises.

Salam

The following is your conclusion and premises

Premise The Qur'an give command or injunciton regarding sex-marriage between a woman and a man. (comments)

Premise 4.25 ...and give them (women) their dues with equity with their virtue, without impropriety nor taking them as secret partners... (comments - fallacy)

Therefore Sex is marriage between a woman and a man (comments)
Marriage between a woman and a man is sex.

The definition of sexual intercourse

sexual contact between individuals <- comments
involving penetration

esp. the insertion of a man's erect penis
into a woman's vagina
typically culminating in orgasm
and the ejaculation of semen

("sexual contact involving penetration", ie. conduct, sexual conducts and not duty (deen) or institution)

Issue

According to the Qur'an etc., Prostitution is equally between a woman and a man, but it is not a marriage despite there is an engagement of sexual relations; ie. there is "penetration", and it is sexual intercourse.

So how can your theory explain this situation?

Is prostitution an institution of marriage?

Yes? No?

Which Ayat? Law? Dictionary?

Peace. peace

You do not get it. Too bad. God considers everything a marriage, it is men that refuse to acknowledge that they are acting outside the low God. Is that a reason for God to change the nature of the world He has created. If you marry a prostitute it is still marriage but YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, not God, do nto consider it so. What is it so sacred about brutish lust that makes it impossible for people to grasp that what they do is not what God meant and that they are associating, yes associating when they erect their own conept of marriage instead of God's.

Salaam

muslims

God considers everything a marriage

If you marry a prostitute it is still marriage but YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, not God, do nto consider it so.

Sex = Marriage
Marriage = Sex
Therefore, there is only "Marriage"

Therefore, "Sex" must be defined according to "Marriage" (God's Law). <- fallacy, refer comment

Is this your point? Okay, I got it.

Salam

So it is your own rules?

Can you show and prove with an ayat from the Qur'an that a sexual intercourse with a prostitute is the institution of marriage (any religion or laws)?

Secondly,

("sexual contact involving penetration", ie. conduct, sexual conducts and not duty (deen) or institution)

Can you prove from the Qur'an how a "sexual penetration" is in fact a contract of marriage?

Which one is referring to the pen, paper and the ink for signing the contract? yes

Peace.

p/s I wonder why people are easily offended when we are just asking questions for their conclusions. When we just asking for an explanation. Why making a conclusion if you cannot back up or supported it with valid facts and reasoning? Why need to feel insecure? hmm

Zulf

REFER HERE

take note the status of father-in-law and mother-in-law is much like your own father and mother. There are not party to the contract of marriage but equally affected by marriages. Is the Qur'an or INSTITUTION of marriage is all about sex? (ie. as per your argument that sex is marriage and marriage is sex) (3349), (2236-237), (55), (243) and (2233).

Like the text hints at. We should separate contractees of marriage on one hand, and those affected by marriage on the other hand. Sex is not included with those that are just affected by marriage, like children, siblings and in-laws. The graphic could be misleading. Marriage may affect all what the graphic highlights, but it is not marriage as such. Marriage is a contract between two spouses.
I believe huruf wants to say that sex is a distinguishing characteristic of marriage (practical part/result/premission of the contract).
Sex is intimately connected to the constellation of marriage. Marriage gives permission to have sex. Sex is found in side marriage, but not outside. Having sex, therefore, is engaging in something which is part of marriage. Sex without marriage could perhaps then be seen as someone ripping a piece of marriage out of the whole, using it for temporary pleasure, and then throwing it away.... perhaps a bit like playing with someones feelings, for fun, and then just ditching that person like trash. It's like using something out of context (in the wrong context, for the wrong reasons) and then dumping it.

drfazl

Therefore Sex is marriage between a woman and a man (comments)
Marriage between a woman and a man is sex.

Marriage is a man and a woman becoming husband and wife which is legal and public decency; lots of intercourses on various issues involving life goes between them before they decide to unite in their lives as partners to deal with their lives.

Sex is their private affair which they themselves engage in darkness and under cover; and to do it openly or talk of it plainly is not acceptable in a decent society.

The definition of sexual intercourse

sexual contact between individuals <- comments
involving penetration

esp. the insertion of a man's erect penis
into a woman's vagina
typically culminating in orgasm
and the ejaculation of semen

No. What you describe is sexual encounter!

Before becoming engaged in marriage as man and wife many an intercourse on matters of life and living as partners have got exchanged between them, heart to heart. Their relations is soulful intercourse; physical intercourse between them again has love and affection and care would be predominant and of paramount importance to them. As a result of this lust shall not play a lead role there. This is the reason why a married woman and man would avoid talk or explicit narration on sex between them. Any decent married couple of orthodox nature do not find as admissible to their hearts such private subject to be spoken out publicly.

Which Ayat? Law? Dictionary denies this!

Peace.