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Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

Peace Man of Faith these are not my opinions but yours!

What you wrote earlier speaks against this.

a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word
or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

Yes and qatal is not a synonym because it does not imply that a person dies but only that the person is defeated, subdued. It is not even remotely synonymous because one word implies that the person dies while the other one does not. And qatal does not imply whether the defeat is peaceful or violent.

So how would you translate, or how do you understand 49/14?
One can submit, accept, resign to, acknowledge, conform to the tenets of Islam (Muslim)
which are indeed sound but why such grandiosity, nitpicking your own personal meaning?

It is your opinion that I have grandiosity. And it is your opinion that I am "nitpicking" my personal meanings. Salam the root does not mean submit or whatever you are fed. It means that something is sound/pristine/healthy.

Just reflect upon why in tradition you greet someone with "salaam". Do you tell them "submit!" when you greet them or do you wish them health? You wish them health obviously. And Muslim means "a Sound one" which refers to that you are mentally and physically well, but its meaning does probably more imply that you have a sound judgment rather than kafar, i.e. deluded.

4914 is quite easy to explain because allah is not a word for some god but the only word as a title used to refer to your Sustainer is 'Rabb' in the Arabic language here. Yet many translators add the word allah where 'aslamana' is mentioned in the sentence so it looks the way you believe. Try to find some better argument and please stop the derogatory remarks that I am filled with grandiosity just because I am propagating a truth that has been shoveled dirt on for over thousand years.

It is not a matter of grandeur. When someone struggles to proclaim a truth it is not arrogance, and I have the right to propel my words just like anyone else as long as I follow the forum rules. And I told you that I am basing these arguments on DEFINITIONS AVAILABLE IN ANCIENT LEXICONS and they are NOT MY MEANINGS. What is difficult to understand?

Do not blame others for understanding your points of view.

I blame people for "nitpicking" my words in order to find some way against me while they did not even care to study them first. You entirely took my words, rendered me in bad weather, and said I contradicted myself while I did not. A synonym must have almost the same meaning as the word referred to or else it can only be a somewhat similar word with some connotation. Perhaps I should not say similar because I have to be perfectly clear. They have some remote connection with each other, instead.

We were talking about Arabic words and I said there are no synonyms in the Arabic language, but there are words with a similar meaning. But that does not mean they are synonymous. You just based an opinion without reflecting upon what I wrote first and saying I contradict myself while I did not in the first place.

My understanding

synonym

NOUN

a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word
or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

synonyms alternate ? substitute ? alternative ? equivalent ? euphemism

And where can you disqualify my argument with this? It is clear what a synonym is.

Be well

JavaLatte

I agree with you in principle but cautious about making statements about Allah.

Yeah... that's right. Thank you for the advice, brother hawk.

May Allah forgive me.

InshaAllah, I will be more careful if I speak about something like that next time.

FreedomStands

In my opinion, every truth (all truth) is static/steady/unchanged/stable,

because I think God is not "wishy washy".

I don't think God is wishy washy, but has shown examples of changing things, like the snake and staff. God is free to change anything, and if God changes anything, it is part of what God wants to do. There isn't really time for God, time is just something in our experiences as a concept.

So, for example, there once was no Earth. That state did not remain, and then there was Earth, etc. Constantly changing things, changing the seasons, and changing the humans, and they grow old and die and new ones appear, etc.

If God was "static", then the Earth would never have appeared nor would there be any creation or change from that original state, but God creates freely and new things and adds to things and transforms people and creations, and says even of the angels that God adds to their creation as he pleases. There is no time really, God is presently operating and doing whatever, and it is by "change" that we perceive anything at all.

Change is evident, or else God wouldn't have created in the first place and there would have been no change, nor would there have been progress which is all transformation. If everything was static, there would be no end to the Universe or Earth either.

JavaLatte

I'm not saying everything was static, I think it could be that you misunderstood my point.

In short, I tend to believe that my Creator is consistent regarding His decisions for matters.

That's my personal understanding.

FreedomStands

I'm not saying everything was static, I think it could be that you misunderstood my point.

In short, I tend to believe that my Creator is consistent regarding His decisions for matters.

That's my personal understanding.

I think that is totally true. In my view, there are only Allah's decisions, and there is nothing in the heavens, or the earth or anywhere that can change the decision of Allah, Allah decides a matter and says "Be" and it is, but Allah's decisions are such that Allah can also change any of it, not because something convinced Allah to change it, or that Allah is wishy washy, but that Allah is now doing something else or wills there to be some change or transformation, and Allah is totally free to do that, is not bound by anything, etc, so freely can create and freely can destroy, and freely can make any sort of decision however weird it may seem.

hawk99

Yeah... that's right. Thank you for the advice, brother hawk.

May Allah forgive me.

InshaAllah, I will be more careful if I speak about something like that next time.

Peace, when referring to my lord I try to stick to his attributes,
thereby not risking offense to our sustainer.

Yes and qatal is not a synonym because it does not imply that a person dies but only that the person is defeated,

Makes sense if you invent your own definitions

God bless

Man_of_Faith

Hawk99,

I have not done it. These are definitions in ancient lexicons. Defeat, subdue and master. It is NOT my inventions.

The word means to defeat someone, and whether the person dies or not does not come forth.

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.
You say
The word means to defeat someone, and whether the person dies or not does not come forth.

Here we go again, lexicans,dictionaries....are no use. Qoran comes back at you from where you do not perceive and tries you

Defeat does not even come close here
1874
So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent person, who did not kill another person? You have committed something horrendous."

Are you going to argue the first means defeat even if he dies? What about the second "Katalahu"?

Defeat will not make sense here!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

FreedomStands

Peace Man Of Faith.
You say
The word means to defeat someone, and whether the person dies or not does not come forth.

Here we go again, lexicans,dictionaries....are no use. Qoran comes back at you from where you do not perceive and tries you

Defeat does not even come close here
1874
So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent person, who did not kill another person? You have committed something horrendous."

Are you going to argue the first means defeat even if he dies? What about the second "Katalahu"?

Defeat will not make sense here!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Can you make lexican food?

good_logic

Peace.
You might as well say it means "lexican food" ,it is no worse than saying it means "defeat"?

Both will not make sense.

However ,if you say it means "lexican food", at least we know you have a sense of humour!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

FreedomStands

Peace.
You might as well say it means "lexican food" ,it is no worse than saying it means "defeat"?

Both will not make sense.

However ,if you say it means "lexican food", at least we know you have a sense of humour!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I've eaten defeat all my life! I'd say it tastes like $#!^, but I pray God spares me from a sure knowledge of that!

Lexican food on the other hand has a flavor almost similar to the posts of Bahman, except with a little more flavor in the linguisti.

Man_of_Faith

good logic,

He did lecture the young boy. Giving him a round. He did not kill him. Moses reacts on this because there was no apparent motive for it from his point of view, but the stranger could see in the future.

Besides your translation here has mention of "kill" three times whereas in the original Arabic is only says qatal twice.

I doubt that Moses would continue travel with him if he killed the boy. It is completely unrighteous and the Sustainer would not use such a story as a narrative. No. The stranger does give the boy a round.

Lexicons are used to gather information on how words have been used in a language traditionally. You speak like they are of no use. You forget that Arabic words mean only one thing and this language has several thousand years of history through Aramaic. They commonly share roots.

Also the morphological meaning of Qaf-Ta-Lam reveals it quite well because it literally means to "manage getting a message across". It is actually very similar to .

Be well

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.

Well ,what can I say. you keep insisting on your "translation" even though it has problems?

I keep giving you many examples,but you keep "ducking and diving"!!!
Look again at this other example
3144
Muhammad was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt God in the least. God rewards those who are appreciative.

Here defeat is out of the question brother.

If you come back ,insisting on your "translation", then you have that choice, but ,Qoran has many other examples where it will be shown up.

Having said that ,you are entitled to your say/translation...even if it is wrong/misleading...

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

No my friend good logic,

It does even better prove my point because it mentions die twice in the same context in a context which you refer to warfare so then it refers to "be defeated OR killed".

It is you who have problems not I.

I continue to propagate this because it is the true interpretation of Qatal.

You do not even have to mention about Goliath too. Qatal is used, but it says David defeated Goliath in that context.

I am not "ducking and diving". I seek to proclaim the true account of Quran and not some violent lie.

Be well

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.

Fine, I will however remind you about the context of both " Maata" and "Koutila",the next verse makes it clear that they both mean the same thing "Yamutu"
3145
No one dies except by God's leave, at a predetermined time. Whoever seeks the vanities of this world, we give him therefrom, and whoever seeks the rewards of the Hereafter, we bless him therein. We reward those who are appreciative.

No, "defeat" is out of the question here..

Brother, this is my last say on it.
I will now leave it at that.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Good logic,

You just fight to defend your traditional interpretation without giving much reflection.

That it mentions no one dies except by God's leave is in conjunction with "would you turn back on your heels" in the previous passage.

Qatal = defeat. There are all sort of signs; contextual, morphological and lexical.

But it is the same with that salawa word you keep arguing with me about. Most historical examples in lexicons refer to such as horse races and to follow something. Yet you argue according to the interpretation you know a lot of sectarian fools have been tampering with.

That I call to succumbing to tradition.

The story about Moses does not add up either. He does never kill a man in Egypt, but he is exposed to a conspiracy against him and has to flee. He tried to defeat them in turmoil but did not get people to listen to him.

Be well

JavaLatte

Peace, when referring to my lord I try to stick to his attributes,
thereby not risking offense to our sustainer.

Hmm, yes, that's better, I agree with that.

Thank you for the reminder, brother. I appreciate it.

Peace.

FreedomStands

Peace Man Of Faith.

Fine, I will however remind you about the context of both " Maata" and "Koutila",the next verse makes it clear that they both mean the same thing "Yamutu"
3145
No one dies except by God's leave, at a predetermined time. Whoever seeks the vanities of this world, we give him therefrom, and whoever seeks the rewards of the Hereafter, we bless him therein. We reward those who are appreciative.

No, "defeat" is out of the question here..

Brother, this is my last say on it.
I will now leave it at that.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

How about no one is defeated except at the pre-determined time! Also true actually! lol.

good_logic

Peace.

Actually there is a difference.
Qoran is straightforward. There is only one truth.

One can go around and assign all sorts of meanings to GOD s words ,but "believing" is a serious matter,which includes taking HIS words seriously and reverencing HIM ( Being careful not to compromise the truth and choosing the wrong meanings without checking properly!).

O you who believe, reverence God and utter only the correct utterances.
He will then fix your works, and forgive your sins. Those who obey God and His messenger have triumphed a great triumph.

God augments the guidance of those who choose to be guided. For the good deeds are eternally rewarded by your Lord, and bring far better returns.

One can go around saying all sorts about GOD s words,but if they do not fit in with all the context of Qoran and "contradict" it ,then they are falsehood,not the truth!!!

The selective obedience of God to compromise and please our ego and others besides Him is lying and it leads to nothing but a hypocritical path.
The Day will come when God resurrects them all. They will swear to Him then, just as they swear to you now, thinking that they really are right! Indeed, they are the real liars.

Bottom lines GOD s words are a serious matter.
If we needed amusement, we could have initiated it without any of this, if that is what we wanted to do.
Instead, it is our plan to support the truth against falsehood, in order to defeat it. Woe to you for the utterances you utter.

If you pick and choose ,here and there,and ignore other verses.we are kidding ourselves and misleading people
Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."

Let us value GOD as He should be valued. Value HIS words every singe one of them in all Qoran.

This is not mix and match. This is not finding what you desire. This is not any book,any meaning any which way you like.

This is GOD s instruction,guidance,deen,way of life,all of it ,every single verse,every single word,every single letter.

Do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor shall you conceal the truth, knowingly.

Finally
"Our Lord, let not our hearts waver, now that You have guided us. Shower us with Your mercy; You are the Grantor.

... "Our Lord, do not condemn us if we forget or make mistakes. Our Lord, and protect us from blaspheming against You, like those before us have done. Our Lord, protect us from sinning until it becomes too late for us to repent. Pardon us, forgive us, and have mercy on us. You are our Lord and Master. Grant us victory over the disbelieving people."

GOD bless.
Peace.

FreedomStands