:: Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah? ::
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Bro burhan is likely referring to 2152-67, however perhaps he can tell us where in Quran it praises this action or calls it right or says we should do this.
All his actions are praised, except that he prayed for his father. He is considered a role model.
Perhaps you can tell me where this religious intolerance is condemned.
I respect that a few of you have a different view out of billions of Muslims. But a book that guides one and misguides billions does need to be questioned.
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Salam/Peace brother Imran good to see you again. I had that thought in my head as well.
salam and peace on u brother sardar,
i m good thanks and whats about you i hope you are doing wellsorry i just edited my post with some questions in the end u can have a look in them too
God bless you
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All his actions are praised, except that he prayed for his father. He is considered a role model.
Perhaps you can tell me where this religious intolerance is condemned.
I respect that a few of you have a different view out of billions of Muslims. But a book that guides one and misguides billions does need to be questioned.
Bold Religious intolerance? I am not sure but if you have seen the verses i have provided, Ibrahim questioned his family and community and as for your last sentence, misguides billions? You might wan't to look at this verses
6110
Wanuqallibu af-idatahum waabsarahumkama lam yu/minoo bihi awwala marratin wanatharuhumfee tughyanihim yaAAmahoona
We divert their hearts and eyesight, as they did not acknowledge it the first time; and We leave them wandering in their transgression.6148
Sayaqoolu allatheena ashrakoo law shaaAllahu ma ashrakna wala abaonawala harramna min shay-in kathalikakaththaba allatheena min qablihim hattathaqoo ba/sana qul hal AAindakum min AAilminfatukhrijoohu lana in tattabiAAoona illa alththannawa-in antum illa takhrusoona
Those who are polytheists will say "If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have made anything unlawful." Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say "Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess."7146
Saasrifu AAan ayatiyaallatheena yatakabbaroona fee al-ardi bighayri alhaqqiwa-in yaraw kulla ayatin la yu/minoo bihawa-in yaraw sabeela alrrushdi la yattakhithoohusabeelan wa-in yaraw sabeela alghayyi yattakhithoohusabeelan thalika bi-annahum kaththaboo bi-ayatinawakanoo AAanha ghafileena
I will turn away from My revelations those who are arrogant on the earth without right, and if they see every sign they do not believe in it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of mischief, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our revelations and were heedless of them. -
peace,
burhan, since I saw no Quran reference in your post I will assume you concede that this action of his is not praised, called right etc.
And I am happy to concede there is no explicit reference condemning it. I have little problem with that since we have 16125, 5045 etc to go on.
And as I'm sure you are aware Quran already acknowledges people can read one thing and it can guide one and misguide another. And to check what it's saying etc. You are not stating anything new here.
mmkhan, similarly, your reference doesn't praise the action we are discussing, call it right etc.
I assume you are both aware Quran states the messenger of Quran is a good example but also lists instances where he may have been wrong or misjudged etc. By saying someone is a good/excellent example doesn't mean perfect.
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1942
Ith qala li-abeehi yaabati lima taAAbudu ma la yasmaAAu wala yubsiruwala yughnee AAanka shay-an
When he said to his father "O father, why do you serve what does not hear or see, nor help you in anything?"O Allah if you can hear me or see this or can help me please reply to this post by answering the following questions.
1)Which sect is following the straight /right path or who is the guided one in this forum?
2)Did you really sent us alQuraan?
3)Which translation of the Quran is valid?
4) is this justice? X was born to the guided family so X followed what her family was following and got success ( in hereafter) and Y was born to misguided Family Y followed his family and got failed (in hereafter) and punished. (Y and X never questioned there faith and both were very good human beings).After replying send me a message with my Gmail account password .
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Salaamun brothers and sisters,
I came across a question recently by a new friend of mine that 'is alQuraan from Allah?'
I said yes. He asked me to prove it and I failed.
May Allah protect us from all evil and guide us on His only path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan, I know the Quran is from Allah because of its ayats!
As far as proof to non-believers, convincing them that AL Quran is
from Allah is not my job. Allah guides whom he wills.peace
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I came across a question recently by a new friend of mine that 'is alQuraan from Allah?'
I said yes. He asked me to prove it and I failed.
Then many questions arise in my mind.It will help me to understand how many of you think that alQuraan is not from Allah.
Please vote, you don't need to mention your name.Ask him to define what does he mean by "From Allah".
If Allah = The Absolute Supreme Originator Of Everything
Then everything IS from Allah..
Quran, Bible, Hammurabi Codex, Art Of War, Mahabharata, Harry Potter, 7 Habits of highly effective people, Star, Galaxy, Moon, Earth, Human, Gorilla, Alien etc..Yet who actually wrote, publish and distribute Quran, Bible, Hammurabi Codex, Art Of War, Mahabharata, Harry Potter and millions of other literary materials? Definitely human.
But just because human wrote, publish and distribute those doesn't mean that those items were not "From Allah", given Allah = The Absolute Supreme Originator Of Everything.
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peace,
burhan, since I saw no Quran reference in your post I will assume you concede that this action of his is not praised, called right etc.
His entire story is praised and called an excellent example. 604. Whenever Abraham did something wrong in the story narrated, it is made clear to us what that is.
By your logic we can reject anything that isn't condemned in a check-list style manner.
If I write 5 sentences about you and then end with "Wakas, what a cool dude, we should all be like him". Any sane person will understand that I condone the actions of those 5 sentences.
By your logic Abraham being thrown into the fire is ok, since it's not explicitly condemned.
And I am happy to concede there is no explicit reference condemning it. I have little problem with that since we have 16125, 5045 etc to go on.
We are told to despise the disbeliever countless times ... oh but talk to them nicely ...
https//skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html
And as I'm sure you are aware Quran already acknowledges people can read one thing and it can guide one and misguide another. And to check what it's saying etc. You are not stating anything new here.
This is an extraordinary cop-out by the author of the Quran, sounds like Trump. Words matter, and the author must be held accountable for them.
I am happy that we seek to have a Disneyland interpretation of the Quran, but that fact is 99% of the readers of the Quran have not bought into our apologetics.
If you were living a thousand years ago you'd be perfectly happy with misogyny and intolerance of the Quran.
It's is only your 21st century sensibilities that have forced you to reinterpret the book. You are guiding the Quran.
Is there a bit of ego stroking by Quranists because only they know the "true" interpretation of the Quran??
I assume you are both aware Quran states the messenger of Quran is a good example but also lists instances where he may have been wrong or misjudged etc. By saying someone is a good/excellent example doesn't mean perfect.
Exactly, because the stories of the Prophets are eulogies the author knows to explicitly condemn unapproved actions of Prophets.
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Peace All.
I believe Qoran is sent down because I am finding the book giving me instructions and information that is helping me find out who I am and why I exist here on earth. This is my opinion for me only, it is independent and does not require others to follow it or believe the same!!!!Qoran is here and it is the subject of all these conversations/debates/views. Do with it what you wish. Study it ,ignore it...etc
Qoran itself gives you your choice" Believe in it or do not believe in it"
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None of us are its guardians, none of us are its authors, none of us are its defenders.Why should we provide anyone with evidence about a book that they can ponder/check for themselves?
By all means we can give them our take on it and they give us theirs. Free will dictates that all are entitled to their views.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
His entire story is praised and called an excellent example. 604. Whenever Abraham did something wrong in the story narrated, it is made clear to us what that is.
Again, I didn't see you provide any explicit evidence. If 604 is your evidence, then you will note the use of "wa-alladhna maahu" and there is no part about smashing idols in the context.
By your logic we can reject anything that isn't condemned in a check-list style manner.
If I write 5 sentences about you and then end with "Wakas, what a cool dude, we should all be like him". Any sane person will understand that I condone the actions of those 5 sentences.
By your logic Abraham being thrown into the fire is ok, since it's not explicitly condemned.
We are told to despise the disbeliever countless times ... oh but talk to them nicely ...
https//skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html
My method involves taking Quran as a whole, not drawing conclusions based on isolated verses.
This is an extraordinary cop-out by the author of the Quran, sounds like Trump. Words matter, and the author must be held accountable for them.
It's not a "cop-out" at all, it is simply stating a fact. Perhaps you'd like it to say "everyone who reads this will come to the same interpretation on every law etc." That's illogical.
Of course words matter, feel free to reject them.
I am happy that we seek to have a Disneyland interpretation of the Quran, but that fact is 99% of the readers of the Quran have not bought into our apologetics.
If you were living a thousand years ago you'd be perfectly happy with misogyny and intolerance of the Quran.
It's is only your 21st century sensibilities that have forced you to reinterpret the book. You are guiding the Quran.
Is there a bit of ego stroking by Quranists because only they know the "true" interpretation of the Quran??
Exactly, because the stories of the Prophets are eulogies the author knows to explicitly condemn unapproved actions of Prophets.
I see a lot claims and bluster but no evidence. Some "Quranists" may claim their interpretation is the correct one, but it's no more than a claim. Variance is expected, see 3918 etc. Seems much of what you're saying is using the reasoning that people who follow X are wrong therefore X is wrong.
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5101 "O believers! Do not ask about any matter which, if made clear to you, may disturb you. But if you inquire about what is being revealed in the Quran, it will be made clear to you. Allah has forgiven what was done in the past. And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Forbearing."
God says the book is from him, you must read it to understand this concept, as reel pointed out. Being guided and becoming more knowledgeable as a result of studying the book, is the only way to prove God's indisputable authorship of the revelation.
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Again, I didn't see you provide any explicit evidence. If 604 is your evidence, then you will note the use of "wa-alladhna maahu" and there is no part about smashing idols in the context.
I have given you the evidence but you don't want to acknowledge it. This is understandable as in your mind your opening premise is that the Quran is perfect and everybody else is wrong.
There is no evidence that will convince you until you are ready to accept that such evidence can exist.My method involves taking Quran as a whole, not drawing conclusions based on isolated verses.
Yet you ask for a single explicit verse as counter evidence, even though you know that all the Prophet stories are eulogies.
One rule for you and another for me.It's not a "cop-out" at all, it is simply stating a fact. Perhaps you'd like it to say "everyone who reads this will come to the same interpretation on every law etc." That's illogical.
No I expect better use of language. If a certain verse is open to abuse, then surely God is capable of producing a better one. He had 25 years or so history tells us.
Seems much of what you're saying is using the reasoning that people who follow X are wrong therefore X is wrong.
Right. If smoking cigarettes causes cancer then surely the cigarettes are to blame and not the smokers.
According to your logic, they are just smoking them wrong. You are not supposed inhale.
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No I expect better use of language. If a certain verse is open to abuse, then surely God is capable of producing a better one. He had 25 years or so history tells us.
Right. If smoking cigarettes causes cancer then surely the cigarettes are to blame and not the smokers.
According to your logic, they are just smoking them wrong. You are not supposed inhale.
Salam/Peace dear brother Burhan.
Bold God did tell us in 37 there are people who have diseases in the hearts seeks to confuse
37
Huwa allathee anzala AAalayka alkitabaminhu ayatun muhkamatun hunna ommualkitabi waokharu mutashabihatun faammaallatheena fee quloobihim zayghun fayattabiAAoona matashabaha minhu ibtighaa alfitnati waibtighaata/weelihi wama yaAAlamu ta/weelahu illa Allahuwaalrrasikhoona fee alAAilmi yaqooloona amannabihi kullun min AAindi rabbina wama yaththakkaruilla oloo al-albabi
He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are lawgiving revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are of a similatude. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow that which is of a similatude, seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God. And those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.Blue But it was people who made the cigarettes with arsenic and other cancer ingredients and they are people who make cigarettes and know it's very bad for their health but still do it anyway because various reasons.
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Bold God did tell us in 37 there are people who have diseases in the hearts seeks to confuse
Verily those who have diseases in their hearts are those who
- Spread hatred
- Feel superior compared to others
- Selfish / Self Centered lacking of empathy.
Those who think that "My Book" was the only one "From God" while others are NOT, thus inferior, fell into category number 2.
Those who think that his / her religion, race, ethnicity, language, nationality is superior to others also fell into category number 2.
Those who hate others who do not have the same opinion / belief as themselves and justify the act of humiliation, oppression, torture, murder (including war) to those who are different fell into category number 1 and 3.The servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say peace.
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Jafar, Sadar
You are not doing yourselves any favors by quoting the Quran. These are all ad-hominem attacks. Why kind of God needs to resort to ad-hominem attacks?
I haven't killed, robbed or hurt anybody but I have a disease in my heart, selfish and arrogant just because I disagree with you.
These are the same verses Muslims quote each other before they kill each other.
Verily those who have diseases in their hearts are those who
- Spread hatred
- Feel superior compared to others
- Selfish / Self Centered lacking of empathy.
Those who think that "My Book" was the only one "From God" while others are NOT, thus inferior, fell into category number 2.
Those who think that his / her religion, race, ethnicity, language, nationality is superior to others also fell into category number 2.
Those who hate others who do not have the same opinion / belief as themselves and justify the act of humiliation, oppression, torture, murder (including war) to those who are different fell into category number 1 and 3.The servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say peace.
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Salaamun Wakas,
604
There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination.
This sounds even worse than I remember.
"We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone"
So much for accepting difference of opinion.
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Jafar, Sadar
You are not doing yourselves any favors by quoting the Quran.
I quoted Quran? Where?
These are all ad-hominem attacks.
Show me where I attacked you personally?
Why kind of God needs to resort to ad-hominem attacks?
Of course it doesn't make sense.. God attack or warring against his own creation.
Since all creation are abiding to His will.I haven't killed, robbed or hurt anybody but I have a disease in my heart, selfish and arrogant just because I disagree with you.
That's good, keep up the good works.
So far I haven't seen and/or aware of a disease in your heart.. -
Jafar, Sadar
You are not doing yourselves any favors by quoting the Quran. These are all ad-hominem attacks. Why kind of God needs to resort to ad-hominem attacks?
I haven't killed, robbed or hurt anybody but I have a disease in my heart, selfish and arrogant just because I disagree with you.
These are the same verses Muslims quote each other before they kill each other.
Hold on when did i say that you have a disease in your heart? I never said that, i just said that there are people who have diseases in the hearts seeks to confuse, not you. Also how exactly does Allah/God (SWTAY) need to resort to ad-hominem attacks? As for these so called "Muslims" quote the verses out of context on purpose.
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I have given you the evidence but you don't want to acknowledge it.
No. At best, what you provided was indirect evidence.
This is understandable as in your mind your opening premise is that the Quran is perfect and everybody else is wrong.
There is no evidence that will convince you until you are ready to accept that such evidence can exist.To my knowledge, I have never said Quran is perfect.
Yet you ask for a single explicit verse as counter evidence, even though you know that all the Prophet stories are eulogies.
One rule for you and another for me.I asked you for evidence (and yes, that means citing verses if you had any).
No I expect better use of language. If a certain verse is open to abuse, then surely God is capable of producing a better one. He had 25 years or so history tells us.
better use of language = only one interpretation is possible ? Let us know when you find such a book in the world.
Right. If smoking cigarettes causes cancer then surely the cigarettes are to blame and not the smokers.
According to your logic, they are just smoking them wrong. You are not supposed inhale.
False analogy. The fact that you said "right" tells us everything we need to know about the reasoning you're using. Please see http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
burhan many people are reading this Quran and doing bad stuff, I conclude Quran is at fault
wakas there can be no other reason?
burhan no, Quran is at fault
wakas have most Muslims read Quran (in a language they understand)?
burhan probably not, but Quran is at fault though
wakas but aren't most interpreting Quran using external sources?
burhan maybe but Quran is still at fault
wakas are they following the methodology endorsed by Quran to arrive at an interpretation?
burhan I dunno about that, but Quran is still at fault
wakas what about those who read/follow Quran and do many good things and are good human beings?
burhan erm, well, exceptions to the rule, most who follow Quran do bad so its still at fault
wakas but didn't we establish most have not read Quran?
burhan maybe but those who do are majority bad, so Quran at fault
wakas evidence for that statement?
burhan just my observation/experience
wakas subjective?
burhan well, fact in my view
wakas how can you be sure you're not committing a confusing cause effect logical fallacy and/or hasty generalisation logical fallacy?
burhan you ask too many questions, Quran is at fault, it's simpler that way
wakas each to their own i guess, peace out
