:: Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah? ::

good_logic

Peace jafar.
Please review your post

1- No evidence of who these 5-7th century people that came up with Qoran were? Things like names, places...etc
Your comments are guesswork, baseless and based on misconception and ignorance.

2"-If" in your statement tells me you have doubts. Like I said ,no answer yet! Just like when I say this
If you are sure about the author/s of Qoran you would not say "IF Mohammed ....etc" .
I know for sure, from your statement, that you have not researched and studied Qoran and you are unfairly commenting on its origin.

3- So your Apps and the copy from China have come up with the contents of Qoran? I did say you needed to review your post, this joke of yours ,if it was meant as a joke, renders your post a joke!

4- All those thousands of titles that do not claim "written by GOD" have humans as claimants. Or have you skipped the first pages?
Qoran claims it is a revelation from GOD Or come up with the author/s?

Try again.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

huruf

A spanish saying goes No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil that does not come to bring good.

I imagine in every language there is something similar.

So I do thank God for people having idolized Qur'an. Why? The Qur'an has been hidden under the interpretrations that purport to tell us what the Qur'an means. It is as if a blanket with a new Qur'an had been trown over the real Qur'an and impersonated it. Bu the real Qur'an underneath has not been touched, because it has een idolized. Had it not been so, the Qur'an itself would have been rewritten and what we would have today would be a twin to the Bible or the hadith. That idolization has prevented it becomin so.

So for us people, the choice remains possible, SEE the Qur'an the real one or accept the impersonations.

We do have the choice. Thsoe who accept the impersonations because that allows them demean the real Qur'an, will have what they want. They want garbage, they will have garbage. Those who want the real Qur'an, God, willing will be able to find peace and not suffer more than necessay because always they will have the assurance that even if the whole world disagrees, they agree with themselves and their hearts are contented.

Thank God, for evil and good, because in God's creation there is no evil that does not lead to good.

Salaam

good_logic

Peace huruf.
I do not really mind if jafar says to me that he does not know who came up with the contents of Qoran. I am not asking him to believe it is from GOD. Yet he insists it is from humans!!!!
So who then?
The truth is no one so far has come up with a different source that claimed the authorship nor have they shown evidence that GOD s claim is false.
Like you said ,they have their choices and opinions but no evidence to refute GOD s claim of authorship of Qoran.

As for idolising Qoran, this is a feeble excuse to deny that the book is unique. The contents speak for themselves. No human is capable of so much gem ,knowledge, wisdom, purpose of our creation, advice, information...etc.
The book itself gives them their choice and is very much aware of what they say. Amazing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Makaveli

so much gem

Example(s)?

knowledge

They ask you about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.

What a great knowledge right there. There is no need for heavenly bodies EXCEPT for hajj and counting female periods.

wisdom

Example(s)?

purpose of our creation

To worship God for no particular logical purpose so as to be allowed in "Heaven" for eternal hedonism, while your relatives and these you used to know suffer in enternal fire for disbelieving or for any other purpose i.e. God's will?

advise

Example(s)?

information

Hm...like talking ants? God swearing by different things? The cow, which cannot be slaughtered? Other examples? Why do we, the previous and future generations need this particular information (a lion's portion of the book is actually this inconsistent, out-of-context and full of phrases, which do not make any plausible sense)?

The book itself gives them their choice and is very much aware of what they say. Amazing.

This I agree with. It gives one a choice either to fall into fallacious dogma, which omits reason and common sense or use mind instead. That's the attribute of the book I won't question and totally agree with.

P.S. My stance of the Quran exceeds commonly accepted dogma, but since Quran is understood here traditionally it is a nice way to show a dogmatic what his/her reason (or lack thereof) is worth.

huruf

Peace huruf.
I do not really mind if jafar says to me that he does not know who came up with the contents of Qoran. I am not asking him to believe it is from GOD. Yet he insists it is from humans!!!!
So who then?
The truth is no one so far has come up with a different source that claimed the authorship nor have they shown evidence that GOD s claim is false.
Like you said ,they have their choices and opinions but no evidence to refute GOD s claim of authorship of Qoran.

As for idolising Qoran, this is a feeble excuse to deny that the book is unique. The contents speak for themselves. No human is capable of so much gem ,knowledge, wisdom, purpose of our creation, advice, information...etc.
The book itself gives them their choice and is very much aware of what they say. Amazing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Yes, that is so. I supose in self-punishing minds it must come as unreal tat somebody would give us something as good as the Qur'an just like that. Well, they choose in what destiny they believe for themselves or if they have any destiny at all or are just like fluff in the wind.

And indeed, who has claimed to have written the Qur'an? Weird or who is it claimed and shown minimally to have been written?

Salaam

good_logic

Peace Makaveli.
I will answer you from the stance of what you are questioning
It will be a waste of both our time to give you examples or even discuss any contents of Qoran why?
Because when the understanding differs , the outcome will remain the same
I know you do your own study and have your own understanding of Qoran. So once aware of Qoran, make of it what you want.
Either
1624
When they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Tales from the past."
Or
1630
As for the righteous, when they are asked, "What do you think of these revelations from your Lord," they say, "Good." For those who lead a righteous life, happiness, and the abode of the Hereafter is even better. What a blissful abode for the righteous.

The main question, if you wish to get involved here is
Which human authored Qoran? Evidence?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Makaveli

Which human authored Qoran? Evidence?

Pointless, since in the light of a lack of original manuscript we can clearly observe the practice of over-scribing the text over a period of time during the reign of different rulers and in different periods. We even lack a single old manuscript which would contain all of the 114 remaining chapters, which the tradition (not the book, by the way) claims to preserve. Both Birmingham and Saan'a copies are incomplete compared to the traditional version. So your question lacks any point, a wider question would be to ask who was the last to overwrite and alter it and to which extent. That's how you produce a bigger picture and expand your knowledge outside of a typical belief system.

good_logic

Peace Makaveli.
I am talking about the Qoran we have now. The contents that have reached us so far.
When one says the scribes of such and such of the past is irrelevant.
Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Makaveli

When one says the scribes of such and such of the past is irrelevant.
Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?

Yes it is relevant, claiming otherwise is a reliance on a system of faith instead of common sense. The question who authored a first Quran is irrelevant as long as the alteration problem is not solved, because that's another factor in the chain of other factors which prevent us from understanding its origin. Alteration of the text has been done for ages in any religion, Quran is no exception. Claiming otherwise is like claiming you will be caught by the angels instead of falling off the bridge. You will fall regardless of what your belief system tells you.

Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?

Umaric tradition.

reel

A spanish saying goes No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil that does not come to bring good.

I imagine in every language there is something similar.

I heard a similar line Maybe something good is hidden under the bad that happened.

So I do thank God for people having idolized Qur'an. Why? The Qur'an has been hidden under the interpretrations that purport to tell us what the Qur'an means. It is as if a blanket with a new Qur'an had been trown over the real Qur'an and impersonated it. Bu the real Qur'an underneath has not been touched, because it has een idolized. Had it not been so, the Qur'an itself would have been rewritten and what we would have today would be a twin to the Bible or the hadith. That idolization has prevented it becomin so.

Although I agree with you, his use of words "idolizing the Quran" is quite a poor attempt at dismissing other people's belief as absurd especially on this forum. It is dedicated mainly to Quran. So obviously, we focus more on that. This is no idol worship.

He is literally over simplifying the meaning of idolizing. You can just plug it into any other areas of life and get the same result. It is like if a student spends time studying medicine, goes to use it in his field and discusses its contents with his colleague then by using Jafar's logic, we find that the person is idolizing medicine.

So for us people, the choice remains possible, SEE the Qur'an the real one or accept the impersonations.

Criticism of the contents is more of a common sense approach. It doesn't make sense to be angry at a BOOK. Just reminds me of this

"I'm so angry at my, idiotic barber!
Think I'll stay in here 'till, it grows out a little!
Got a lousy Haircut! A really stupid haircut!
What a silly haircut! I can't believe this haircut!"https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNbx6iF-vQI

Now
"I'm so angry at this, idiotic God!
Think I'll stay in here 'till, this book grows out a little!
Got a lousy book! A really stupid book!
What a silly book! I can't believe this book!

We do have the choice. Thsoe who accept the impersonations because that allows them demean the real Qur'an, will have what they want. They want garbage, they will have garbage. Those who want the real Qur'an, God, willing will be able to find peace and not suffer more than necessay because always they will have the assurance that even if the whole world disagrees, they agree with themselves and their hearts are contented.

Those are some great words.

good_logic

Peace Makaveli.
So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?

As far as my checking goes ,I believe we have the original Qoran, with an interlock system of letters, words, verses and surahs. Impossible to imitate, alter ,add to or take away from.
But of course that is my checking of its numbering patterns and locks, no faith required anymore .
GOD bless you.
Peace.

mmkhan

So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?

As far as my checking goes ,I believe we have the original Qoran, with an interlock system of letters, words, verses and surahs. Impossible to imitate, alter ,add to or take away from.

Peace good logic,

Recently I came across almost about 22 different versions of alQuraan. Don't be emotional bro, just think about it.

good_logic

Peace mmkhan.
Nice to hear from you brother.
22 versions? There may be many ,but GOD Anzala only one.

And we do not even need to think, just count the letters/numbers of surahs, verses, words...etc
But thinking is required for understanding the message once we know for sure/are certain GOD has sent a message.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?

peace, you are asking to check something without telling how.
show how interlock or whatever works explain which is correct?

https//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/pharaohs_magicians_detailed.html

In the following, we present another example of parallel accounts containing major verbal variations

258 and when qul'n/said we of

ud'khul/enters ye of this the town
fakul/so eat ye of therein anyplace like you freely

7161 and when qla/stated to them

us'kun/settles ye of this the town
wakul/and eat ye of therein anyplace like you

There is more above although want to keep simple and verified old manuscripts.

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/58?handschrift=163
see translation link https//s15.postimg.cc/5ky2gd6sb/ch2v55-62.jpg

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/161/handschrift/163
see translation link https//s15.postimg.cc/7o8ho3jgr/ch7v157-163.jpg

good_logic

Peace Noon.
So you believe Qoran is not from GOD and has contradictions?
I do not get your post.
To me ,your post applies to you since you have no proof of what is original Qoran?
You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.
GOD bless you.
Peace

The_Sardar

Peace Noon.
So you believe Qoran is not from GOD and has contradictions?
I do not get your post.
To me ,your post applies to you since you have no proof of what is original Qoran?
You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.
GOD bless you.
Peace

I don't think he mentioned anything that Qur'an is not from God. Brother Noon made a topic on this "Hafs & Warsh" of The Qur'an

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610132.msg414793#msg414793

good_logic

Yes brother The Sardar.
That was a question not an assumption . It is related to the article he included..
Also which version of Qoran was sent down originally? Evidence?
This is the most important question.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.

peace, wording is consistent in old and new manuscripts?

258 and when qul'n/said we of

ud'khul/enters ye of this the town
fakul/so eat ye of therein anyplace like you freely

7161 and when qla/stated to them

us'kun/settles ye of this the town
wakul/and eat ye of therein anyplace like you

good_logic

Peace Noon.
How do you measure the consistency/inconsistency/difference?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

How do you measure the consistency/inconsistency/difference?

peace good logic, cannot resolve above by measuring/counting anything rather by careful study!

482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/divergences of (single occurrence) kathiran/much of (3+)