Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
-
Salaam Arnold
Alhamdulillah, I am totally intune with you right here
?Yes, like i said, i have scriptures from ancient Nubians that talk about God. And like the Quran clearly says, that messengers keep being send to restore what was distorted. So i agree with the concept of tawheed being present and that Aknathon came to restore. I have a lot of books about him, and it irritates me also, that they don't want to acknowledge he was worshipping the real God, they always represent it as he just picked one god out of the pantheon of egyptian gods, and made that one god the only one. It is time the real muslims are writing and examining these people from history.?
And you know what Arnold a lot of people who are doing the research and writing the books, history, science or what ever are atheist or half-steppen atheist and when they come across evidence of Tawhiyd, the worship of the One and True Creator they will cover it up and how can we place our confidence in them interpreting nature, the laws of nature, history, etc. because they will always interpret that with the concept that the Creator does not exist. There is one scientist that I do like a lot who have challenged these scientist and his name is Huran Yahya.
You have said this;
?there is no historical proof for 5 in the Muslim literature.?
I do not know if I misunderstood you or not but there are a lot a Muslim literature that says Muhammad observed 5 Salaat and not 3. but perhaps I may have misunderstood your points.
But you know what Arnold remember when I said that the Nubians which predates hadiyth was observing Salaat very much like the Muslims of today, remember that was not my premise it was only a piece of the puzzle to help complete the premise. However that puzzle was strong weight. But if one examines my rebuttal to A. Muhammad, they will see that I primarily focused on Qur?aan ALONE. There are a lot of people for a lot of different reasons who really thanked me for bringing forth the information etc. etc. but however my prime arguments was based on Qur?aan ALONE because if I did not at least make that my prime argument then by default Arnold I would have lost the debate and lost credibility with A. Muhammad whom I challenged as well as the people who are examinig this debate.
You have said
?And i'm already checking the links. Very interresting. I knew already that they ignored large parts of history. The Tolteks with the African statue heads and so on. The Pyramid buildings in souther America.?
No they do not ignore what you have mentioned, just take time out and look the materials most of the materials you have to take time out to invest in so that you can obtain it. For example Ashra Kwesi have produced DVD productions that last 3 or 4 hours saturated with evidence after evidence and also you have to keep in mind that African History has been swept under the rug and there is an inserted effort to concentrate in that area because the oppressor or dominant group has done what they have done and wrote ?his-story?, so we need to tell it ourselves and that is the only way it can be done because time has proven that they do not have the intentions and we cannot way until they do, I hope you understand what I mean.
Arnold thanks for your insight and sharing with me some resources and especially your article, I am one who always love to obtain information. And in regards to the stone age, they always placed Africans as ape like men crawling out of the caves and when humans became more advance and more erect then all of a sudden the human started to take the shape and form of a European man and started to move out of Africa. These are the fairytales we all have to correct. TRUTH is good for everybody.
Salaam
-
peace
There are those who agree on 2, those that agree on 3 and those that agree on 5. Our job should be information, not trying to convince others of these points of views. If you are trying to convince others of your point of view then you are not searching for the truth, you are searching for what you WANT to search for. And if you are doing that you are in a hole already.
There's a difference between expressing one's point of view and convincing others of it. It's important to be careful and not confuse the two.
-
I don't know why, but every time I open this thread, i feel like posting crap like this. feel free to delete this post.
Only "this thread .." ?? Has there ever been any thread where you've posted anything besides loads of horse sh*t ???
-
Peace,
Quote
There is one scientist that I do like a lot who have challenged these scientist and his name is Huran Yahya.Yes, i use his work too, but sometimes he mixes wrong philosophy and presents it as science. Also does he believes in creationism which i highly disagree with. I believe in intelligent design. But the major thing is that he doesn't write those books himself. He has a whole team in his organisation, and they put his name on it, he is not a scientist himself. That is the sad part of the story. Also he used to be Quran alone follower, and this still can be seen in the books where never hadith are used. But he is still promoting the sunna. But that doesn't matter as i like his work for 70%. That is more then by most.
And yes, or it are christians that don't accept any other people in history believing in God, or it are atheist who don't want to see it, or hide it. That is one of the reasons i study theology to investigate the tawheed in history and i want to write books about it.
Quote
?there is no historical proof for 5 in the Muslim literature.?I do not know if I misunderstood you or not but there are a lot a Muslim literature that says Muhammad observed 5 Salaat and not 3. but perhaps I may have misunderstood your points.
I used the wrong words. In most early documents, they all mention that in the first years Muhammed and his followers prayed 3 times a day. And only in the last stage, it suddenly shifts to 5. Ibn Ishaq says it was because of an angel, Ibn Kathir also if i'm correct and Tabari. So they all agree on it being 3 times in the beginning, and that it changed to 5 in the last years of Muhammed's mission. But they all disagree on why or how it was changed from 3 to 5. So that is what i meant. The 3 has as much support from the historical records as the 5. That is why only the arabic Quran can show what is true or not.
Quote
?And i'm already checking the links. Very interresting. I knew already that they ignored large parts of history. The Tolteks with the African statue heads and so on. The Pyramid buildings in souther America.?No they do not ignore what you have mentioned,
No, you misunderstood my sentence. I didn't mean that the authors of the links ignores those. I meant that the common historian and archeologist ignores the African heads in South America, and that the pyramids in South-America resembles the Egyptian shaped pyramids. Only a few mention this, but no one of the Europian or American scholars worked out a theory of how it got there. They only say; look it resembles an african head. They don't investigate why and how it could resemble an african head.
Peace
-
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.I wanna know your opinion on this.
Everybody is invited.-4-
SALAT WORDS
.
With regards to the words spoken during the Salat, we find guidance in the Quran with respect to the following matters
FIRST All the words of the Salat should be from the Quran.
SECOND Specific Quranic phrases are to be spoken during the Salat.
FIRST All the words of the Salat should be from the Quran.
1- "You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's Scripture (the Quran). Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it." 1827
Since this verse does not specify any one activity, it is understood to cover the Salat as well as normal recitation.
2- "You shall recite what is revealed to you of the Scripture (the Quran), and observe the Salat (Contact Prayers)." 2945
This verse specifically links reading from the Quran with the Salat. Consequently, nothing should be read in the Salat that is derived from other than the Quran.
3- "They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture there are those who are righteous. They recite God's revelations through the night while prostrating." 3113
This verse speaks of the righteous, they recite the scripture while prostrating. Since prostrating is one of the acts of Salat, the point is made again about reciting the scripture (in our case the Quran) in our Salat.
SECOND Specific words to be recited during the Salat.
1- Opening words of the Salat Whenever we read the Quran we are to seek refuge in God from the devil
"When you read the Quran, you shall seek refuge in God from Satan the rejected." 1698
The Arabic words are "A'uzu b'Allah min Al-Shaytan Al-Rajeem". And since all the Salat is comprised of Quranic words, thus we must utter these words to start our Salat.
2- Although there is no specific command to read the Key (Fatihah) in particular in the salat, yet since it is the opening of the book and it comprises a call to Allah in all its words, then it is appropriate to read it in the opening of our Salat.
Bearing in mind that God informs us that He does not wish us any hardship in practicing our religion, thus it is sensible to read the relatively longer passages (such as the Key) in the standing position rather than the bowing or prostrating so that the ill and old would not over-burden their frail bodies. Consequently, the recitation of the Key (Al-Fatiha) in the standing position is what all Muslims do.
3- The phrase 'Allahu Akbar' is uttered frequently during Salat in compliance with God's command to magnify Him as in 2185 and 17111.
4- 'Sobhan Rabi Al-Azeem' (Praise my Lord the Great). This is in compliance with "You shall glorify the name of your Lord, the Great" 5674. These words of praise are usually spoken in the bowing position as many times as desired.
5- 'Sobhan Rabi Al-Aala' (Praise my Lord the Most High). This is in compliance with "Glorify the name of your Lord, the Most High" 871. These words of praise are usually spoken in the prostrating position as many times as desired.
Praising God is encouraged at all times and specifically after prostration
"During the night you shall glorify Him, and after prostrating" 5040
6- The Shahada (Testimony of Faith) is the first pillar of Islam and is a declaration of our monotheistic faith. The Shahada may be uttered at any stage in the Salat and any number of times
The words of the Shahada are Ash'hadu ana la illaha ila Allah' (I bear witness that there is no God other than God).
"God bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge" 318
7- In 17111 we read the following words
"Al-Hamdu l'Allah alazee lam yatakhez waladan, wa lam yakun lahu shareek fee al mulk, wa lam yakun lahu waleyon min al zol."
These words translate to
"Praise be to God who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need an ally out of weakness" 17111
In 17110 God commands us to use a moderate voice in our Salat, immediately after which God commands us
"AND SAY, 'Praise be to God, who has never begotten a son??."
The words "AND SAY"at the beginning of verse 111 indicate that the subject is STILL Salat (the subject of 110). This means that God is commanding us to utter these specific words during our salat.
It is interesting to note that these 3 phrases have significant meanings
1- "Praise be to God who has never begotten a son,"
These words purify us from the claim of the Christians who gave God a son.
2- "nor does He have a partner in His kingship,"
These words purify us from the corrupt Muslims who made Muhammad a partner with God in everything they say or do ........
3- "nor does He need an ally out of weakness"
These words purify us from the Jewish scholars who claim that God is not able to do certain things ... etc
In effect, by uttering these words, and constantly being aware of the danger and corruption of these groups, we purify our souls and maintain the purity of our religion.
These words must be uttered during our salat.
To follow these words we should then magnify God frequently (Allah Akbar) ....
8- The 'ending' of the Salat
Since the ending of the Salat conducted by almost all Muslims today does not conform to Quranic teachings, thus this issue will be given special analysis here.
The traditional ending spoken by most Muslims today is
'Al-Salamu alaykum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatu'. (Peace be upon you as well as God's mercy and His blessings). This phrase is uttered twice at the conclusion of the Salat, once with the head turned to the right and once with the head turned to the left.
However, if we were to pause and consider the validity of this phrase we would immediately be faced with the following questions
A- Who are we addressing when we utter these words? Surely we cannot be addressing God because we cannot be saying to God, 'may God's mercy and blessings be upon you'!
Some will say that these words are addressed to other fellow believers who are praying alongside us. But this excuse is false, simply because these words are spoken by believers even when they are praying all on their own!
Some others will say that these words are addressed to the two angels who are recording all our deeds, one of whom is on our right shoulder and one is on our left.
Here we must inquire why should we address the angels? After all, our Salat is not directed to them! The Quran makes the point very clear that every word in our Salat should be to God and nobody else
"Say, 'My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone" 6162 (also see 3911 and 2014)
To direct any words in our Salat to any other than God is indeed against the teachings of the Quran and must be totally rejected.
B- If these words are not directed to God and must thus be rejected, then what are the correct words to be uttered to end our Salat? As usual, God has once again shown us that the Quran offers explanations to all things (1689). Indeed, God has given us in the Quran the exact words that should be uttered to end the Salat. These are found in the following verse
"As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, their Lord guides them by virtue of their belief. Rivers will flow beneath them in the garden of bliss. Their prayer therein is, 'Be you glorified our God' their greeting therein is, 'Peace' and the ending to their prayer is, 'Al-Hamdu l'Allah Rab Al-Alameen (Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe)" 109-10
This verse speaks of the model believers who will be rewarded in the gardens of heaven. We are told about the last words in their prayers 'Al-Hamdu l'Allah Rab Al-Alameen' (Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe). It makes perfect sense that we should follow their example (if we would like to end up in heaven too) and end our prayers in praise of Almighty God and not bidding farewell to the angels!Summary of the Quranic words to be uttered in the Salat
1- First words "A'uzu b'Allah min Al-Shaytan Al-Rajeem" (I seek refuge in God from Satan the rejected." 1698
2- Al-Fatiha (The Key)
3- 'Allahu Akbar' (God is Greatest) to be spoken frequently, 2185 and 17111.
4- 'Sobhan Rabi Al-Azeem' (Praise my Lord the Great). 5674
5- 'Sobhan Rabi Al-Aala' (Praise my Lord the Most High). 871
6- The Shahada (Testimony) "Ash'hadu ana la illaha ila Allah" (I bear witness that there is no God other than God). 318
7- "Al-Hamdu l'Allah alazee lam yatakhez waladan, wa lam yakun lahu shareek fee al mulk, wa lam yakun lahu waleyon min al zol". (Praise be to God who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need an ally out of weakness). 17111
8- The Salat ends with the words
"Al-Hamdu l'Allah Rab Al-Alameen (Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe)" 1010
No offence.
As salamu alaykum. -
Salaam Arnold
I have to leave but to be breif about this comment
"You cannot proof these external seen rituals were their pillars. You don't know what their pillars were. I know also that the Day of Judgement is found in a lot of inscriptions. So why didn't you mention this one? Most hieroglyphs can be seen on tombs that show the king's deeds being measured on a scale on the Day of Judgement."
I see the blind still wants to be blind and you have mentioned why I have not mentioned what I have underlined from your statement up above? I think its obvious my rebuttal to A. Muhammad is based primarily on his works. My rebuttal was not designed to talk about the Nubians of antiquity in explicit detail. There is a lot I can talk about in addition to what you have mentioned up above. The sad thing is, I still see a bunch of people who are addressing everything under the moon and using a 'scape goating' tactic to avoird the real issue at hand. The heavy weights here are dumfounded so they are attempting to take this subject matter and drift and drift away to create the illusion that they are addressing the subject matter.
The 5 Salaat stands and it will continue to stand because its based on Qur'aan ALONE.
Salaam
-
Salaam Arnold
I have to leave but to be breif about this comment
"You cannot proof these external seen rituals were their pillars. You don't know what their pillars were. I know also that the Day of Judgement is found in a lot of inscriptions. So why didn't you mention this one? Most hieroglyphs can be seen on tombs that show the king's deeds being measured on a scale on the Day of Judgement."
I see the blind still wants to be blind and you have mentioned why I have not mentioned what I have underlined from your statement up above? I think its obvious my rebuttal to A. Muhammad is based primarily on his works. My rebuttal was not designed to talk about the Nubians of antiquity in explicit detail. There is a lot I can talk about in addition to what you have mentioned up above. The sad thing is, I still see a bunch of people who are addressing everything under the moon and using a 'scape goating' tactic to avoird the real issue at hand. The heavy weights here are dumfounded so they are attempting to take this subject matter and drift and drift away to create the illusion that they are addressing the subject matter.
The 5 Salaat stands and it will continue to stand because its based on Qur'aan ALONE.
Salaam
Peace,
This was part of the 5 pillar discussion. Has nothing to do with the 5 or 3 timings. You said the Nubians also have the 5 pillars. When i go through the Quran, there are several 'pillars' mentioned as important, not just the 5. You claimed the Nubians knew about the 5 pillars based on them doing prayer,fasting, pilgrimage and tawheed. Those are 4, i'm missing the 5th one. Plus i see one extra one already which is not part of the sunni-pillars. Judgement Day also was clearly known, shown by their inscriptions. So your claim that the 5-pillars are correct is baseless, as you only have 4, and ignore one that is also important in the Quran, which shows the sunni 5-pillars is wrong summary of the Quran, because it is to limited. It only focusses on the rituals which are a small part of what the Deen really is, which is fighting for human rights, like i showed in previous posts. There is no bases what so ever, that there are 5 important subjects in the Quran. There are at least 10 to 20, and next to tawheed the most important one is righteous conduct. So to keep professing the 5 pillars(the most important subjects of Islam) as Quranic is wrong, and comes from the sunni theology. A truly Quranic list of pillars would be a bit longer, and would have a different order of what is important.
So all the extra evidence you have in the article are a bit useless, and some are wrong claims. The Nubians performed 7 time salaat, not 5. And also in the hadith history, it is known that they used to pray 3, and that it was turned into 5 times only later on. So IF, the Quran says 5 times, then not only the tawheed was restored but also the timing, as the used to perform 3 in the first 10-15 years.
That they suddenly peformed 5 instead of 3, can be explained that or this is lied about in the hadith, or there came a revelation of a verse that showed them it should be 5.
So now the debate on the arabic can only show the truth. All the history you mention in your article cannot be used to prove the 5 times.
Peace
-
Salaam Arnold
The majority of Khidr's arguments was based on Qur'aan. There are many people here who want to focus on the Qur'aan and u keep bringing up the same stuff about history.
And about the 5 Pillars I think you over looked when Khidr said that it can be used to explain Islam in a nutshell. He was not using the 5 Pillars to break Islam down the very core.
I am convinced with the arguments that exist that the Qur'aan speaks of 5 Salaat and you nor anybody here has done any justice to the 3 Salaat position. Lets avoid off topic stuff and get into the heart of the subject is it 5 or 3 salaat?
-
Salaam Arnold
Also to every Muslim knows that the Islaamic history speaks of 5 Salaat. Everybody in the entire Muslim world do 5 Salaat not 3. Off topic as usual fftopic and you are trying to sneak in inaccurate Islaamic history.
-
Peace,
Half of his article is talking about the history, not just one little part. Now i showed that part is useless and even wrong. So now only the arabic is left. Al-khidr and me were discussing this, as he brought it up every time as being important. This off-topic comment is not correct. The history is a smuch important to his comments as the arabic. We are discussing his article. That you only want to discuss the arabic is your opinion. I want to discuss ALL of his 'proofs'.
Also, the so-called 5 pillars are not Islam in a nutshell. This is an ignorant, non-quranic theory. Read my previous posts about it. If you would have followed the discussion, it was also part of his 'proofs'. That is why i adressed it.
But i'm done as i have proven my points that half of his article is not usable and even wrong for his proof of 5 times. Like you, now i want to see the arabic discussed. I will not comment anymore on his historical proofs of the 5 times, as i have broken done them already to null......
As for arabic history, i recommend you to read more before you claim 'inaccurate' information. Read Ibn Ishaaq and other early historians as Tabari, they all say that in the first years, they prayed 3 times, only in a later stage the prayed 5. Every muslim knows squat. They mostly only know the fairy tales...
So your offtopic is offtopic
-
Salam Adley,
What about the one before that? The question about the day of gathering? I think your idea was something like this the Salat at the time of gathering must happen after dawn and before dusk. So my enquiry was that doesn't it mean this Salat can happen at noon? (In other words, in support of 5-time Salat) Thanks.
=adley=
It is plausible that it would occur around noon (when people are still trading), and hence they are told to leave the trading and carry-out the Salat. It would not support the 5 Salat time primarily because you would be hard pressed to find the verses that speak of the timings and then relate it to the Salat names/descriptiuons (i.e. the names and the timings should work together, not be independant of one another).
-
Salaam Arnold
your comment here "This is an ignorant, non-quranic theory"
you have not broken down anything what you have done was give us your views but Khidr asked you to provide a verse from Qur'aan to prove that its wrong to use the 5 Pillars of faith to expain Islaam in a nutshell. You have not done that.
And as for the history, you may have mentioned one or two books but the majority of history books speaks of 5 Salaat not 3. 5 Salaat has always been here and it dominates the history books. as brother Khidr mentioned this is your means of drifting and not directly dealing with the subject of 3 or 5 Salaat in Qur'aan.
and you did not prove your arguments about the 5 Pillars and the Nubians. In so many times Khidr said that was part of the puzzle but not the main premise and you are trying to make it his premise. He also said that he could of spoke more in that area but his rebuttal was not designed to do that. Everybody here who has read his rebuttal can see that.
the 5 Salaat is here to stay. open up ur eyes there in the Qur'aan
-
Peace,
-
Who 1believe in the Unknown and 2fulfil their devotional obligations(salaat), and 3spend in charity of what We have given them;
-
4Who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed to those before you, and are 5certain of the Hereafter.
-
They have found the guidance of their Lord and will be successful.
-
Surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareans and the Sabians, 6whoever believes in God and the 7Last Day, and 8whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret.
Ok, now you give me the verses that show the sunni pillars are Islam in a nutshell, show me that those 5 are the bases of Islam, that those 5 things are a summary of 80% of the Quranic message......
Secondly, i only discussed the part of the article which i could discuss for now. I showed Islamic history, the EARLIEST sources, although unreliable as any historical source, talk about 3 times being before 5. And that the author he quoted on the Nubians only shows 4 things that are part of the sunni pillars, not 5. Also Khidr's comment on the Nubian salaat timing was wrong as they prayed 7 times. So all of these claims he can remove from his article. Only the arabic remains. All his 'side-proof' is wrong.
That was my only comment. You think i wanna disprove 5 times, which is wrong. I only commented on that the historical proofs he showed were wrong, nothing more. It was not my purpose to prove 3 at all. This is what you think, but if you read carefully, you see i only show his extra proof is wrong.
I'm not for or against 5 times, as i still need to see that discussion between Khidr and others. So you open your eyes. You filled it in yourself of what my purpose was. I'm awaiting the debate on the verses...
Peace
-
-
I think Layth already exposed the 5 pillar theory.
but let me give it a shot-
testify there is one God and Muhammad is his messenger.
The problem with that is that to be a "muslim," one does not need to say anything (it is what is in the heart that counts). also, there is more to being a muslim than saying a few meaningless words. We are supposed to constantly follow God's restricted system. Then there is the fact Muhammad isn't the only messenger of God, if you are mentioning one, you have to mention all. which is obviously impossible. -
Pray 5 times facing Mecca
I guess that is a "valid" pillar, but 5 times salat is still being debated and nowhere in the quran are we supposed to face Mecca while doing anything. -
Fasting in Ramadhan
again, it is not clear what exactly ramadhan is and how and when we are supposed to fast because of all the curroption that the hadith have caused. But again, this can be considered a pillar if the doubts are cleared up. -
Charity
There is nothing wrong with charity, but there is no given amount in the quran. but charity is included in the good works -
Pilgrimage to Mecca
the town Mecca is not mentioned in the Quran.
Finally, these 5 pillars don't = Islam. Islam is belief in 1 God and doing good works. That is Islam in a nutshell.
Islam is not a religion, it is what one must do to achieve the state of mind we call jannah.
the 2 or 3 pillars (at least 2 of them don't make sense) should not be called pillars, because they aren't pillars holding up the system, but part of the system. And there are more than a few parts to the system if you want to get into the specifics. -
-
Salaam Arnold
I think you are obsessed or overly identiflying with brother Khidr because Arnold lets say that he made an human error and said 5 or 100 Salaat the point is there is no such thing of a 3 Salaat. The Nubians did not practice 3 Salaat. Like brother Khidr said 5, 7 Salaat is not 3. We see numbers higher than 3 and that history of the Nubians is before hadith history. Zainab said the 3 Salaat was floored and what I see is people like you still trying to keep the door cracked for 3. we all know the history of Islaam here and that history points to 5 Salaat not 3. you are taking this subject matter in circles we want the facts here 3 or 5 that is what a lot of people is looking for. I do not know what more you need to see becuase khidr rebuttal was thorough in covering 5 Salaat in Qur'aan
Peace,
-
Who 1believe in the Unknown and 2fulfil their devotional obligations(salaat), and 3spend in charity of what We have given them;
-
4Who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed to those before you, and are 5certain of the Hereafter.
-
They have found the guidance of their Lord and will be successful.
-
Surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareans and the Sabians, 6whoever believes in God and the 7Last Day, and 8whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret.
Ok, now you give me the verses that show the sunni pillars are Islam in a nutshell, show me that those 5 are the bases of Islam, that those 5 things are a summary of 80% of the Quranic message......
Secondly, i only discussed the part of the article which i could discuss for now. I showed Islamic history, the EARLIEST sources, although unreliable as any historical source, talk about 3 times being before 5. And that the author he quoted on the Nubians only shows 4 things that are part of the sunni pillars, not 5. Also Khidr's comment on the Nubian salaat timing was wrong as they prayed 7 times. So all of these claims he can remove from his article. Only the arabic remains. All his 'side-proof' is wrong.
That was my only comment. You think i wanna disprove 5 times, which is wrong. I only commented on that the historical proofs he showed were wrong, nothing more. It was not my purpose to prove 3 at all. This is what you think, but if you read carefully, you see i only show his extra proof is wrong.
I'm not for or against 5 times, as i still need to see that discussion between Khidr and others. So you open your eyes. You filled it in yourself of what my purpose was. I'm awaiting the debate on the verses...
Peace
-
-
I think you are obsessed or overly identiflying with brother Khidr because Arnold lets say that he made an human error and said 5 or 100 Salaat the point is there is no such thing of a 3 Salaat. The Nubians did not practice 3 Salaat. Like brother Khidr said 5, 7 Salaat is not 3. We see numbers higher than 3 and that history of the Nubians is before hadith history. Zainab said the 3 Salaat was floored and what I see is people like you still trying to keep the door cracked for 3. we all know the history of Islaam here and that history points to 5 Salaat not 3. you are taking this subject matter in circles we want the facts here 3 or 5 that is what a lot of people is looking for. I do not know what more you need to see becuase khidr rebuttal was thorough in covering 5 Salaat in Qur'aan
peace no shirk
i think you misunderstood Arnold again, so let me make his points clear to you using the 5 pillars of Arnold's posts
-
History of Nubians points to 7 salats and 4 pillars, not 5. If there is no 3, there is no 5 either.
-
Arnold is not defending the 3 salat interpretation
-
Arnold does not hate the 5 salat interpretation
-
he has proven the history to be unreliable
-
because the history is unreliable, let's discuss the ARABIC. the text of the Quran to see how many times are given
And these are my 3 cents
-
Just because Zainab said that 3 salat theory is floored doesn't mean anything. If I say horse dung smells good doesn't make it so.
-
Why don't you actually read people's posts and comment on them instead of saying things that show a clear lack of understanding of other's views.
-
3 salat, 2 salat, 5 salat, no salat, any number of salat has not been proven yet. What Al-Khidr needs to do is address Layth's (did he already?) and Tanveermd's arguments.
We should stop looking at history and focus first on the text of the quran.
-
