Salam,there is a physical salat
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Salam,
I do acknowledge that in some verses of the quran salat does not always refer to a physical prayer,but there is a definite existence of physical prayer in quran,and it is a flawed understanding that there is absolutely no physical salat(prayer).Let me explain.
1st set of verses
2238 Maintain the oaths of allegiance, and especially the middle oath of allegiance; and stand devoutly for God.
2239 But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.Firstly,free minds translates salat as oaths of allegiance.If you notice the next verse,BUT if you are in a state of worry,you may do so while walking or riding.Now the question is,let us take the 2 options of oaths of allegiance or following closely(another famous thoeretical meaning for the word salat),you can easily make oath of allegiance walking or riding and you can obviously follow the quran closely regardless of your physical position.Now,this appears that walking and riding is not a preferred and usual state for salat,unless you are in a state of worry.As oaths of allegiance is a non physical thing and more mental/verbal,a state of worry has no effect on you,for example if you are under attack you can make your oath of allegiance in your heart or say it as you are on the move, in peace and war.However,if it involves physical aspects a literal understanding of verse 4102,which has to be literal as the issue is war and standing guard,there is nothing metaphorical about both, then it makes sense to say for those who cant observe salat even in a state where ppl stand guard because of constant attack for example,and there is a necessity to be on the move,then the salat can be done in those positions without the need to go through the process of standing,bowing and prostrating.I hope this clears it up as the ideas of following closely or oaths of allegiance does not hold water when it comes to these verses especially.Salam.
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, I also hold the understanding that there is a specific action to be done regarding "salaat". I do not agree with the traditional bowing down on the ground, but I understand salaat as meditating in order to reprogram your spirit(nafs), the part of your being that carries out automatically your thoughts. Therefore one must be STILL, not moving. Interestingly enough, the goal of life is to be at PEACE in the face of any situation. The Hindus call this NIRVANA , meaning not-moving.
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salam,
interesting perspective...i do believe salat is meditation,but the difference is i believe in a physical movement with mental focusing.The physical movements help me keep my concentration and is part of me humbling myself before almighty God,but its refreshing to know you do acknowledge it is an activity that contributes to remembrance of God...though we differ in that you believe in sitting and i, standing,bowing/kneeling and prostrating....yeap...salam
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Peace be upon you Matinbhagat,
I respect the differences we have, but would like to ask a question that might draw us closer in understanding. We are told that under certain circumstances where we can "salaat" while walking or riding, which implies that the ordinary method is being still. One can still meditate while walking or riding (as long as someone else is there to guard, just like the verse where one is leading half the group while the other half stands guard). However I cannot see how one can do the bowing and prostrating while walking and riding.
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salam,
well precisely one cannot be walking and bowing and prostrating at the same time,hence one is allowed to do the mental aspect of the meditation minus the physical aspect in times of worry....
and to sister samia,
243
Khalifa
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and bow down with those who bow downthats the answer...
salam
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salam sister samia,
"wairkaAAoo maAAa alrrakiAAeena" appears to be translated by some as bow down with those who bow/kneel down with those who kneel.However,i noticed in the usual physical movements,we are doing both, and hence God could have well meant both,hence the multiple meaning word.Let me explain,we stand first,then we bow,then we prostrate.Even if we dunt follow the traditional way by standing up again after bowing,before prostrating,and we prostrate immediately after bowing according to the quranic sequence,the only way this can be achieved as far as my body is concerned without hurting myself is,by getting my knees onto the floor,knees on the floor(=kneeling) and then prostrating,there is no safer way to get into prostration mode from bowing.yeap,just my observations and ideas.Salam,hope this helps and pls do share more of your thoughts and comments,brothers and sisters in islam.
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Let me explain,we stand first,then we bow,then we prostrate.
No. We bow, then we stand up agin, then we prostrate. So, we return to the first position before prostrating. Bowing is not essential to being able to prostrate.
Even if we dunt follow the traditional way by standing up again after bowing,before prostrating,and we prostrate immediately after bowing according to the quranic sequence
As I mentioned in my first message, there is no bowing in the Qur'aan. "Yarka3" is NOT to bow. It means to kneel.
Bow yan7ani.there is no safer way to get into prostration mode from bowing.
Exactly. So, what does bowing serve? besides, it is not in the qur'aan.
If in English bow does not mean kneel, why shouldn't it be the case in Arabic?"wairkaAAoo maAAa alrrakiAAeena" appears to be translated by some as bow down with those who bow/kneel down with those who kneel
This is just an attempt to incorporate this "bowing" into the salaat, or they are translating with their prior text of how to pray in mind.
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salam Samia,
from one of the concordance of the quran,frm the root words ra and kaf...appears to have meanings of bow mainly.How come kneeling is not even mentioned? is yan7ani the only word for bow??Or does ruka? also mean bowing?Can others who are well versed with arabic pls post your ideas too.Thanks.kneeling or bowing?or both?Is not sura al jaatheya translated as kneeling?Jatha appears to be kneeling from the concordance i have.
salam
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According to lisanul 3arab
- raka3a mainly means to be humble; yield, submit; any action to show this whether be it bowing (from nodding the head) or bowing (untill the head almost touches the ground).
I would say As long as you are in a salaat, you do not need to translate your submission in further actions, which will just interrupt this state of submission and being humble. To prostrate, you do not need to bow, but you need to have your knees touching the ground.
- Jatha (jeem tha waw) to "sit" on the knees (without supporting your body on the back of the legs) as if in a fight or dispute. More suitable for worry or anxiety.
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Salaam all,
As for Ra-Kaf-'Ayn to mean "kneeling" I take it from this verse
He said "He has wronged you by asking to combine your lambs with his lambs. And many who mix their properties take advantage of one another, except those who believe and do good works, and these are very few." And David guessed that We had tested him, so he sought forgiveness from his Lord, and fell down raaki'an, and repented.
I just can't understand how I suppose to fall down bowing. I can fall down kneeling though.
=adley=
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Salam,
bro adley,you can also fall down prostrating,as sis samia pointed out rukoo can involve prostration also,not sujood alone.
Salam
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Salaam MatinBhagat,
Oh yes of course, we can also fall down prostrating. But the word for that is, as I see it now, sujud.
In other words, I can fall raaki'an (as described in 3824) and I can fall sujjadan (as described in 17107) if both of these words are to be understood as physical activities.=adley=
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peace brother adley, all,
thanks for the reference. I would not call it solid evidence as rkE's other meanings could fit, but your suggestion is a possibility. It is interesting that to say "fell down" is perhaps an unecessary addition of info if "rakiAAan" does indeed mean "kneel".
I know from personal experience I have fell down "rakiAAan" at times, whether it be on my knees or in humility. I can relate to both meanings/methods.
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Salaam Wakas,
Well, I personally do not take ruku as something physical, even though if someone wants me to interpret it as such then my opinion is that of "kneeling" instead of "bowing". I agree that "down" is redundant to "kneeling" and that's why I think it should only state fall raaki'an and fall sujjadan.
=adley=
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Peace be upon you,
Ruku and sujood only mean to humbly submit(ruku) and to hear and obey(sujood).
(4154) And We raised above them the Mountain with their promise/covenant, and We said to them "Enter the door/entrance prostrating".....
How can one enter a place on the ground, dragging thier face on the ground? The verse did NOT say enter the gate crawling, as I am sure there is another word for "crawl". Instead, if we understand the similitude, we see that it means to enter the gate humble and submissively.
(17107) Say "Believe with it or do not believe, surely those who were given/brought to the knowledge, from before it, if (it) is being read/recited on them, they fall down to the chins/beards prostrating."
This verse says that those with knowledge, when they hear the recitation of God's words, they will fall prostrate. Is that what everyone here does when they hear the God's message recited? What happens if you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the recitation of God's message? What if you are driving listening to a tape of recitation?
Instead, if we understand the similitude, when those with knowledge hear the announcement of TRUTH, they "hear and obey"(prostrate). The phrase "to thier chins" just adds to the degree of humbleness with which we submit to verifyable truth (knowledge).
So wether we are still or walking and riding, there is no need for physical prostration in respect to putting your face on the ground. If one chooses to do so as a way to help reprogram thier spirit, then that is fine, as long as they know it is a personal choice and not an instruction from the God.
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Well it is an instruction if viewed literally.There is no necessity to fix the rukoo and sujood to mean the same in all verses,it can mean differently in different verses.Salam
