Salam,there is a physical salat
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Peace be upon you idolfree1,
Peace be upon you Andy,
Agreed. That is what we must do. But in the process of listening to all views, we must bounce them off each other to weed out the truth from falsehood. Thats what hajj(debate) is all about.
There is a verse in this reading(quran) that says "there shall be no arguing(jidala) in the debate(hajja)".
So dont confuse the two concepts, arguing and debating We are here to debate so that we can rule out the different views and be able to follow the BEST of it, how wil we know which is BEST without putting it to the test? But when it goes too far and we argue, then we must back away and restore peace. Do you agree with that?
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating but I think I have nothing to disagree with you at this point.
Do you mean verse 2197?
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the months which have been appointed. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage (jidaala fee alhajji). And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.
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Peace andy
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating
My 2 cents to debate would be to explain your viewpoint while staying open to its eventual reevaluation. to argue would be to engage in a discussion without the intention or possibility of changing your mind when substantial arguments against your points are presented. To argue would be just to defend your point of view for the sake of your own ego, not for a better understanding.
Sometimes the two are hard to tell apart though
lk
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Peace Elke,
Peace andy
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating
My 2 cents to debate would be to explain your viewpoint while staying open to its eventual reevaluation. to argue would be to engage in a discussion without the intention or possibility of changing your mind when substantial arguments against your points are presented. To argue would be just to defend your point of view for the sake of your own ego, not for a better understanding.
Sometimes the two are hard to tell apart though
lk
Thanks for your 2 cents Elke
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Peace be upon you Andy,
Yes that is the verse. And I agree with Elke's two cents as well
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From me, 2nd time
It is not Allah; it is allaha verb.
Reply, 2nd time
Alaha goes all the way back to Aramaic or Syretic Arabic and it is Allah, thus it?s the same word. Repeat Alaha is the same word as Allah. Remember the original Qur?aan that was revealed does not have vowel points and when you remove the vowel point like in the original Qur?aan Allah is spelled either Alaha or Alah, again it?s the same word. It does not matter if you use a capital ?G? for that Greek pagan term ?God?, its still not nor can be equal in no sense to ALLAH. Remember even if you use the capital ?G? that does not remove the pagan origins of the word and the word still can be altered and made into a feminimm, plural, etc. etc. regardless if you use the capital or not, unlike the original name Allah
brickwall
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Salaam
On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Correction Allat is not derived from Allah, and thus it is not the feminine form, nor is it the feminine of anything. "ilaah" is god; "ilaaha" is goddess.
Why? The letter "haa" is original in ilaah or Allah, but does not show in Allat. Secondly, the "taa" at the end of Allat is not the feminine marker "taa marbuta" because this one is silent unless followed by a vowel (as in Samia ), which is not the case when Allat is pronounced, with the taa always pronounced as well.First of all that word there is pronounced in Arabic as ?Lat? not ?Allat?, the ?alif? in front of ?Lat? is silent when you recite it in Arabic-Tajwiyd beginners course 101.
In fact you do not need any Tajweed course to drop the alif from "al" in any Arabic word. This is an Arabic rule. If you want to say "and the university" you should say "wal-jaami3a" not "wa al-jaami3a". And it is Allat not Lat, in writing, and is pronounced Allat when not preceeded by any other word or preposition.
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Easy danish. The plural of ilah is alihatun...This word is used in the quran,as is ilahayn which means two gods...
Thanks enquirer. This will help me out in many ways discussing relevant "godly" issues. )
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Hello Samia,
On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Correction Allat is not derived from Allah, and thus it is not the feminine form, nor is it the feminine of anything. "ilaah" is god; "ilaaha" is goddess.
Why? The letter "haa" is original in ilaah or Allah, but does not show in Allat. Secondly, the "taa" at the end of Allat is not the feminine marker "taa marbuta" because this one is silent unless followed by a vowel (as in Samia ), which is not the case when Allat is pronounced, with the taa always pronounced as well.If Allat is not a feminine form, then what form is it? How did Allat become a "daughter" of Allah and a "proper name" of a deity (a goddess)?
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Salaam Danish
Sorry if my sentence was not clear to you. I did not say it is not a feminine noun, but I said it is not the feminine form of Allah nor of ilaah. Not all feminine, or masculine nouns have a mirror form in the opposite gender. For example, "7ayaa(t) life" is not the feminine form of "7ay alive, masculine"; it does not have a masculine opposite. The feminine form for "7ay" is "7ayyia".
Allat, I suppose, is a proper noun, and I think it is known by other names in other regions.
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Salaam Samia
"In fact you do not need any Tajweed course to drop the alif from "al" in any Arabic word. This is an Arabic rule. If you want to say "and the university" you should say "wal-jaami3a" not "wa al-jaami3a". And it is Allat not Lat, in writing, and is pronounced Allat when not preceeded by any other word or preposition."
You have convinced beyond reason that you lack common sense because when I expressed Tawjwiyd to Danish I was being funny towards him so I do not know why you come along and said
"This is an Arabic rule" and also "and the university" you should say "wal-jaami3a" not "wa al-jaami3a"
Samia there are a lot of things I see go right over your head just like our last discussion in this thread. Like I have told you before you need to go and try to impress someone who does not know Arabic. I guess for what ever reason you need to make some head way but you picked the wrong one for that.
Samia will you say that "Alaha" in Aramaic is a verb?
Salaam
Easy danish. The plural of ilah is alihatun...This word is used in the quran,as is ilahayn which means two gods...
Thanks enquirer. This will help me out in many ways discussing relevant "godly" issues. )
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Salaam Al Khidr
You have convinced beyond reason that you lack common sense because when I expressed Tawjwiyd to Danish I was being funny towards him
You were being funny? No, from what you wrote "below", you weren't, but you are now.
This is what you said "emphasis mine"I would love to have the honor to correct your misguided Christian self. When you mention the word ?allat? I believe you were referring to Qur?aan 5319. First of all that word there is pronounced in Arabic as ?Lat? not ?Allat?, the ?alif? in front of ?Lat? is silent when you recite it in Arabic-Tajwiyd beginners course 101. This right here sounds like your typical, misguided Christian argument. It is sad to say that your so-called pagan Christian authorities have lied and also brain washed you over the years. The name ?Lat? or as you want to pronounce it as ?Allat?
And this was my comment
In fact you do not need any Tajweed course to drop the alif from "al" in any Arabic word. This is an Arabic rule.
What say you?
Samia there are a lot of things I see go right over your head just like our last discussion in this thread. Like I have told you before you need to go and try to impress someone who does not know Arabic. I guess for what ever reason you need to make some head way but you picked the wrong one for that.
Al Khidr why don't you just reply to my comments instead of protesting because I corrected you?
Samia will you say that "Alaha" in Aramaic is a verb?
Al Khidr brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
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Salam,
brothers and sisters,i started this thread initially,but i see that we are drifting away from the main topic,but i would like to point out,whether you believe in praising God internally or both physically and internally or however...the main aim is to live according to his guidance and establish his divine system to the best of our abilities...it is thus the only way we can unite as the very principle of islam is not to squabble about minor differences but strive for the greater common agreeable good of establishing a society conducive for doing right and avoiding wrong so that we may succeed in both worlds.Peace
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Salaam Samia
The more and more you open your mouth the more and more you bring validation to my comment when I said you lack common sense and everything goes over your head. Let me repeat this one part of my statement just one more time
"Tajwiyd beginners course 101"
when I said that I was being funny to Danish or in other words I was being sarcastic, now I hope you understand.
You have said respond to your comments what comments, I already refuted your claim when you said abd means neither "worship" , "slave", "servant"
Are you saying that Alaha in Aramiac is a verb?
Do you believe that Allah in the Qur'aan is also a verb?
You said
"Al Khidr why don't you just reply to my comments instead of protesting because I corrected you?"
You have made an attempted but failed. Go back and read our dialogue on in this thread, its not necessary for me to copy and past it here.
Salaam
Salaam Al Khidr
You have convinced beyond reason that you lack common sense because when I expressed Tawjwiyd to Danish I was being funny towards him
You were being funny? No, from what you wrote "below", you weren't, but you are now.
This is what you said "emphasis mine"I would love to have the honor to correct your misguided Christian self. When you mention the word ?allat? I believe you were referring to Qur?aan 5319. First of all that word there is pronounced in Arabic as ?Lat? not ?Allat?, the ?alif? in front of ?Lat? is silent when you recite it in Arabic-Tajwiyd beginners course 101. This right here sounds like your typical, misguided Christian argument. It is sad to say that your so-called pagan Christian authorities have lied and also brain washed you over the years. The name ?Lat? or as you want to pronounce it as ?Allat?
And this was my comment
In fact you do not need any Tajweed course to drop the alif from "al" in any Arabic word. This is an Arabic rule.
What say you?
Samia there are a lot of things I see go right over your head just like our last discussion in this thread. Like I have told you before you need to go and try to impress someone who does not know Arabic. I guess for what ever reason you need to make some head way but you picked the wrong one for that.
Al Khidr why don't you just reply to my comments instead of protesting because I corrected you?
Samia will you say that "Alaha" in Aramaic is a verb?
Al Khidr brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
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Hello Al-Khidr,
I shall respond to your post addressed to me earlier and especially towards the Supreme Voodoo link you provided. In the meantime, please dig out a verse from the Quran which proclaims and authenticates Allah as the real and actual supreme name of a deity.
FYI, Allah was never a real name but a contraction of al-ilah to become The God and is capitalized for its supreme stance over all other gods and goddesses. The real name of your god worshipped by Muhammad, the meccans and pre-Islamic cults was actually named Hubal, the Moon God, a male pagan deity. Hubal was venerated as the Most Supreme and All-Powerful and presided atop the roof of Kaba as its throne where he was venerated and worshipped. Hubal was Allah, meaning Hubal was The Supreme God over all other gods. Muhammad destroyed almost all other gods and made Hubal the One and Only. The pagans called upon this deity not by his real name Hubal but addressed him by Allah (The Supreme God). In analogy, if there were several houses and only one was distinguished, it is attributed as The House. Obviously there was not just one god (al-ilah) being worshipped but several gods (alihatun) and one had to be distinguished as The God (Allah), all with their respective names. Do some real study and research before you start banging your head (brickwall ).
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Peace Samia
I have viewed this thread and your dialogue with Khidr and I think you should put down your ego. Just admit you made a mistake by saying that abd neither means worship, slave, serve. I do not know why you would say that Khidr only said it means worship when he also demonstrated that it means more than worship. Its in black and white, its there everybody can clearly read it. You are the only person I know who claims to have Arabic knowledge and say that abd does not mean worship, slave, servant which is false and you keep on dragging this on by making pointless arguments and comments.
You again continue to make pointless arguments and comments such as Khidr trying to be funny. When I read it I can tell he was being sarcastic to that athiest Danish.
It would be nice to get back to the original topic
This right here is an interesting link that address ibadah in the Qur'aan and its various meanings and some of those meanings brother Khidr indicated
http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm
Peace
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
Why would you translate "Hajj" in 2197 as Debate instead of Pilgrimage?
Because thats what it means. If you compile all of the verses with that root, the result will speak for itself.
Further, why would the God force some people to travel halfway around the world while others can cartwheel to the location.
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Peace be upon you,
Still need more time. I havent had much free time after work this past week, and thats the only time I can work on it. This weekend will be busy also, but I will try to put in a few hours. Sorry for the delay, I t really wont be that much longer though.
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Salaam Fatimah12
It is nice to be supportive of someone, but it is an obligation to be fair. Neither you nor Al Khider answered to my explanation of the word "3abd" or "3ibaada". He mentioned "worship" and "serve". How are these two related as the two Arabic terms 3abd and 3ibaada? How do you "serve" God, in the same meaning as a slave serves you, e.g? You need the slave's service, does God need your service?
Have you read the link you provided? I doubt that, although you claim that it came up with Al Khidr explanation. I haven't even read in the article "worship"! How about that? In fact, it mentioned, first thing as meaning of 3abada to obey; to yield!! It goes on to say
Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master...
, you see? Not to serve his master. This's what I saidhence 3abd is a slave because he/she obeys
Compare with my post if you haven't read it.
Here is your whole article. Please point to me where it says to "worship" or to "serve"
Like the other two basic terms already dealt with, the term 'ibadah too has several different meanings, though all related to each other. The basic concept implied by the root word, 'abd, is that of acknowledging someone other than oneself as holding supremacy or enjoying overlordship and of abdicating one's freedom and independence in big favour, of relinquishing any resistance to or disobedience of him, and of surrendering oneself totally to his authority. Since slavery or bondage too are tantamount to similar status, the first sense the word conveys to the mind of any Arab is of this very factor, namely, slavery or bondage.
Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master and carry out his wishes, the word also carries the sense of submission and obedience. Next, a slave not only submits himself to the will of his master physically, but mentally too he accepts his supremacy, and if he at the same time has feelings of gratitude for his kindnesses and favours, he is inclined spontaneously to go out of his way in extolling the master and in showing respect and regard for him. He expresses and demonstrates his obligation in many ways to show his deep attachment, in a manner amounting almost to worship although, obviously, this comes into play only when, in addition to physical bondage, there is mental attachment too.
There are two other senses also in which the word or its derivatives are employed, but they are secondary, and hence it is not necessary to go into them at this stage.
I wonder what those two senses are!!