Salam,there is a physical salat

fatimah12

Salaam Fatimah12

It is nice to be supportive of someone, but it is an obligation to be fair. Neither you nor Al Khider answered to my explanation of the word "3abd" or "3ibaada". He mentioned "worship" and "serve". How are these two related as the two Arabic terms 3abd and 3ibaada? How do you "serve" God, in the same meaning as a slave serves you, e.g? You need the slave's service, does God need your service?

Have you read the link you provided? I doubt that, although you claim that it came up with Al Khidr explanation. I haven't even read in the article "worship"! How about that? In fact, it mentioned, first thing as meaning of 3abada to obey; to yield!! It goes on to say

Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master...
, you see? Not to serve his master. This's what I said

hence 3abd is a slave because he/she obeys

Compare with my post if you haven't read it.

Here is your whole article. Please point to me where it says to "worship" or to "serve"

Like the other two basic terms already dealt with, the term 'ibadah too has several different meanings, though all related to each other. The basic concept implied by the root word, 'abd, is that of acknowledging someone other than oneself as holding supremacy or enjoying overlordship and of abdicating one's freedom and independence in big favour, of relinquishing any resistance to or disobedience of him, and of surrendering oneself totally to his authority. Since slavery or bondage too are tantamount to similar status, the first sense the word conveys to the mind of any Arab is of this very factor, namely, slavery or bondage.

Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master and carry out his wishes, the word also carries the sense of submission and obedience. Next, a slave not only submits himself to the will of his master physically, but mentally too he accepts his supremacy, and if he at the same time has feelings of gratitude for his kindnesses and favours, he is inclined spontaneously to go out of his way in extolling the master and in showing respect and regard for him. He expresses and demonstrates his obligation in many ways to show his deep attachment, in a manner amounting almost to worship although, obviously, this comes into play only when, in addition to physical bondage, there is mental attachment too.

There are two other senses also in which the word or its derivatives are employed, but they are secondary, and hence it is not necessary to go into them at this stage.

I wonder what those two senses are!!

Peace Samia

Yes your right you have to be fair but I don?t think you really read Khidr?s post accurately. Number one you said

?It is nice to be supportive of someone, but it is an obligation to be fair. Neither you nor Al Khidr answered to my explanation of the word "3abd" or "3ibaada"

Brother Khidr said he did not disagree with your explaination. His statement is in his post and I really hope that you took time to read it. When I read his post he said that he ONLY disagrees with you when you said that it neither means worship, slave, serve and he provided more than enough information to you that shows it does mean worship, slave, serve and the sources that he used also provided more definitions. This is what I mean by when I think you need to drop your ego. Abd is the root and those Arabic words do mean worship, slave, serve and even much more including what you have explained.

The link that I have provided also uses the word worship to explain ibadah and more. Didn?t you read this part of the article where the author uses the word worship and even the Qur?anic verses in the article translated ibadah as worship. Honestly did you read it? You only quoted 1/3 of the article and left out the majority of the article. If you deny this I will be happy to quote the sections that uses the word worship for ibadah. You can?t even read a straight forward article, just let me know and I will quote it for you. The link to the article is here again

http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm

I notice that you said, ?You need the slave's service, does God need your service?? For one Khidr never said that the Creator needs our service and he never said that the Creator Allah need our salaat. I never made such claim either, this is what he meant by you introducing arguments/comments that has nothing to do with anything or what he was talking about. I do as brother Khidr have said you lack observation skills. You ego is flaring high. Pointless arguments go no where.

I notice that you never answered brother Khidr?s question here

Are you saying that Alaha in Aramiac is a verb?

Do you believe that Allah in the Qur'aan is also a verb?

Peace

noble

Peace all
idolfree1, will you be including in your article the purposes of sleep and dreams, particularly the re-programming that happens every-night when we experience what Allah calls in the Quran the "smaller death"?

Now Public (as Ahmed will say, I hope he is ok, not heard from him for a while)
It is unfortunate that the English language does not cater for the distinctions between du'a, dhikr and salat.
It is also unfortunate that the word Salat has different meanings in Arabic, such as
Paying tribute, following closely, performing a physical ritual...

My understanding is as follows
It is part of the Islamic farai'dh (obligations) that we perform a physical ritual that involves physical standing up while reading Quran, followed by ruku'u and sujuud, this ritual encapsulates the ayats where Allah says that those who read/listen to the Quran kneel and prostrate...

I for one, when I reach an ayat where Allah says prostrate, and I am at my place, I do physically prostrate. If it is not convenient, I will imagine myself in my mind's eye physically prostrating...

Not following Allah's commands, or worse still, advocating not following His commands, and misleading and confusing believers as to the meaning of His commands is just plain arrogance, and I do not want to have any part in it.

Salams to those who follow Allah's guidance, and may Allah make me one of them...

adley

Salaam Kyle,

OK. Good to hear that.
Just take all the time you need bro.

Speaking of dreaming, has anybody read the book Sleeping, Dreaming, and Dying which is converstations between Dalai Lama and western scientists? That's a good one.

=adley=

unknownuser

Qur?aan 5319
'Afara'aytumu Al-Lta Wa Al-`Uzz?
Have you considered Lat and Uzzah

Wrong. Both Allat and Aluzzah were known stone idols during and pre-dating Muhammad's reign and were proper names, along with Mannat and hundreds of other proper named idols.

?These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. Allah never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.? - (5323)

There is no "made up" as underlined above but rather "named". The sentence should read as "These are names that you named, you and your fathers." Which means that the names were already there and the idols were named as such, hence the fabrication. Also note that Muhammad's purpose was to destroy these idols and keep the Hubal for himself as The God, the one and only, hence the clever verse. Isn't this how Islam was enforced and became monotheist?

The name ?Lat? or as you want to pronounce it as ?Allat? does not predate the original name of the Creator ?Allah?, in other words Danish ?Allah?, the original name was here long long long long before the man-made concoction and manipulation of the Arabic word in your quote up above. The name Allah goes all the way back to the ancient Aramaic/Sytretic Arabic scriptures and this was long before the Qur?aan was revealed; this long before Muhammad was born. Danish how on earth can you take a Johnny-come-lately name to derive a feminine of Allah. It does not work that way.

Allah is not a proper name of any deity. There was no statue or deity named Allah. It is a contraction of the common word 'al-ilah' (the god) and emphasized to give weight to a supreme or chief of the deities to become The God. The word Allah was commonly attributed to many supreme gods of various cults and regions, such as the supreme god named Hubal of the meccan cults, which answers your concern of this word being used during and even long before Muhammad was born.

Every body knows that man has invented names, concocted names throughout history and example of this is ?GOD? & ?JEHOVAH?, just to name a few.

I believe the word "Jehovah" has linguistic and transcriptional problems and therefore much disputed, but nonetheless and once again, it was a proper name of a deity and the Hebrews called him The God. Just like Jesus is a proper name and many Christians believe that he was/is God himself. In other words, Jesus was/is Allah. Let me give you another simple example Assuming that the presidents of all the countries were referred to as gods of their respective countries but the president of the US (Bush) being most distinguished, powerful and supreme, he would be emphasized as The God of all other gods, hence Allah of all other alihatun. No wonder you have Allah as "most" merciful, "most" gracious, "all" powerful and so forth, distinguishing among other gods and goddesses.

You have failed in your attempted to derive a feminine of Allah and you have not produced any evidence from Al Qur?aan to derive a plural of Allah, a masculine of Allah and this is a CHALLENGE to you!! This is what Allah tells us Muslim to say to you Christians

The Arabic feminine gender of Allah is Allat. Allah is a masculine form addressed by He, Him and His. The Quran is not the one to provide you with gender explanations but the Arabic linguistics and grammatical exegesis.
The plural of Allah (The God) is Alihatun (The Gods) if and when emphasized to denote two or more Supreme Gods, in similar fashion as the common singular word allah (the god) to its plural alihatun (the gods).

Qur?aan 2111
They said, ?No one will enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian!? Such is their wishful thinking. Say, ?Show us your proof, if you are truthful

So Danish (the Christian) Produce your proof if you are truthful!!.?

Take this verse up with a Jew or a Christian. And if you ask me, the proof is in the pudding (see above and below).

In English ?GOD? can be made a feminine, example GODDESS

In Arabic "Allah" can be made a feminine, example Allat

In English ?GOD? can be made a plural, example GODS

In Arabic "Allah" can be made a plural, example Alihatun

In English you can change the letter ?g? into a capital or a small case

In Arabic you can change the letter "a" into a capital or small case.

In English the term ?GOD? itself can be used in a masculine sense, it can be used for human beings, mythical gods, idols, just to name a few.

In Arabic the term "Allah" itself can be used in a masculine sense, it can be used for human beings, mythical gods, idols, just to name a few. Thus Allah cannot be a name of any specific entity but an identity to denote supremacy, highest in rank, above all others, etc. It is not possible and out-of-question to give a proper name to a "cosmological god", if at all.

This cannot be done to the original name ALLAH, which all of the Prophets used.

Its a done deal and Allah simply means The God.

If you reverse the name you can spell ?DOG?. You need to research the history of this term ?GOD? to comprehend the greek pagan, atheistic origins and then you will see for yourself that such term could not be applied or used as a substitute for the original and proper name of the Creator ALLAH.

Reverse the word GOD to DOG and what you get is a faithful, loving, caring, beautiful, protective, supportive, playful, loyal and a highly intelligent creature.
Reverse the word ALLAH to HALLA and what you get is a slang term coined by people out of Racine, Wisconsin. Halla is a a word that is taken from the word holla, an informal greeting popular among those in the Hip Hop subculture. There's a bit of a lesson.

There is no scripture in existence that even uses the word ?GOD?, the Prophets that walked the earth never heard of that term.

How unfortunate for Allah's "bodyguards"? Why don't you call upon those "prophets" and give them a good English lesson. After all, people do believe and talk with the dead, don't they?

noble

rotfl
Danish, the corner shop atheist and PhD in Putrifaction thus spoke...

fatimah12

Salaam Danish

This verse is talking about the idol gods they created, fabricated, invented so to say ?made up? fits right into that context.

?There is no "made up" as underlined above but rather "named". The sentence should read as "These are names that you named?

I think you are missing a very crucial point by Brother Khidr. Khidr have said ?Lat? and those other idol gods that they created but was never authorized by Allah came much later after the original name Allah so you cannot create a feminine of Allah using those names that came into late or created by the hands of men much later after Allah. You cannot get around this. Don?t forget Allah is in Aramaic language as well and the name Allah was used before Muhammad was born.

noble

Salam Sis Fatimah
Do not waste your time with Danish, his purpose is to undermine your faith, and ridicule Islam...

thegod

martinbhagat wrote
brothers and sisters,i started this thread initially,but i see that we are drifting away from the main topic,but i would like to point out,whether you believe in praising God internally or both physically and internally or however...

i couldnt agree more (about the drifting away from topic part)...but then that's ok...sooner or later the topic will be returned to...here or elsewhere... (- ..as for myself...i would say sujood and ruku can be physical...whether or not they form a part of salaat i dunno if i know enuf to bet dollars to donuts yet!(-

idolfree1 wrote
Because thats what it means. If you compile all of the verses with that root, the result will speak for itself.

have u reached that conclusion after carrying out the needed? -)

samia wrote
How do you "serve" God, in the same meaning as a slave serves you, e.g? You need the slave's service, does God need your service?

maybe the word denotes a sense of "obeying and doing as told", rather than "serving" as in a slave serving its master (since as u point out god doesnt need anyone's service)! (-

Al_Khidr

Salaam Danish

You have said

?Wrong. Both Allat and Aluzzah were known stone idols during and pre-dating Muhammad's reign and were proper names, along with Mannat and hundreds of other proper named idols.?

This right here is totally incorrect and you know this. This sound like some more of your so-called Christian apologetic?s garbage. The original and proper name of the Creator ?ALLAH? predates those fabricated names as you say ?Allat and Aluzzah?. Again Allah goes all the way back to ancient Syretic Arabic or Aramaic, which predates those fabricated terms by far (5323). For all those who want to investigate further, check out this link and you will see Danish (the under cover Christian) argument further exposed and witness how Allah is the original name of the Creator found in the scriptures

http//www.aramaicnt.org/HTML/ARTICLES/DebunkAnswerChrist.html

I have quoted the following verse

?These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. Allah never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.? - (5323)

and you have said

?There is no "made up" as underlined above but rather "named". The sentence should read as "These are names that you named, you and your fathers."

Sister Fatimah has skillfully addressed this weak argument, which really amounted to your lack of understanding. Danish I hope that you have read her comments concerning your arguments here.

You have said

?Isn't this how Islam was enforced and became monotheist??

No Danish Islaam was spread by the sword of intellect, thus not the physical sword like that of Christianity. All you have to do is talk to Black folks in America and they will tell you how the christians in that religion raped them and enslaved them in the name of Christianity, in the name of GOD. The Christians under Christianity has committed the worse enslavement of history known to mankind. The native Indians were also victims of this treacherous holocaust that was committed by so-called Christians, and Danish your own unholy bible itself promotes slavery.

You have said

?Allah is not a proper name of any deity. There was no statue or deity named Allah. It is a contraction of the common word 'al-ilah' (the god) and emphasized to give weight to a supreme or chief of the deities to become The God.?

When you have said that Allah is not a proper name of any deity, again is your wishful thinking. Now you have said ?Al Ilah?, well Danish lets look at that. The Arabic word ?Al? is the definite article ?The? in English and it would be ?El? in Hebrew. This right here would separate Allah from All creations, visible and invisible. What you have failed to do is reduce our Creator. You still have not demonstrated inside the Qur?aan that Allah is an idol deity, you have failed to produce any evidence inside Al Qur?aan that reduces Allah to a woman, plural, masculine or anything on an earthly human level. Danish where is the evidence in the Qur?aan for this? The Qur?aan says

Praise be to Allah Rabb (The Cherisher, Sustainer, Lord, Master, Provider, Sovereign) of Aalamin (all the Boundless Universes) (12)

He is the One who created for you everything on the planet earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven boundless universes therein, and He has full knowledge of all things. (229)

Glorifying Him are the seven boundless universes, the planet earth, and everyone in them. There is nothing that does not glorify Him, but you do not comprehend their glorification. He is Clement, Forgiver. (1744)

You shall not worship besides Allah any other god. There is no other god besides Him. Everything perishes except His presence. To Him belongs all Kingship, and to Him you will be returned. (288

Below is another good link

http//www.freewebs.com/nuwr19/assamawaati.htm

Qur?aan 1121-4

SAY O HE ALLAH IS ALONE, NO EQUALS HAS HE.
ALLAH IS IN NEED OF NOTHING, FOR HE HAS NO DEFICIENCIES; BUT EVERYTHING IS IN NEED OF HIM HE IS THE PROVIDER AND SUSTAINER OF ALL THINGS BIG AND SMALL.
NEITHER MOTHER NOR FATHER HAS HE AND HE WAS NOT CONCEIVED BY THE UNION OF ANY TWO, NOR DID HE CONCEIEVE AN INDIVIDUAL SON.
AND NOTHING AND NO ONE CAN EQUAL HIM (FOR HE IS THE SUSTAINER OF MAJESTY WHO IS WITHOUT COMPANION OR COUNTERPART). HE IS ALONE (ON HIS MAGNIFICENT THRONE).

I would like to highlight verse 3, where it says, ?HE WAS NOT CONCEIVED BY THE UNION OF ANY TWO?. This means that Allah did not come into existence through sexual conception. All creatures are born, or have came into existence through a sexual conception. This description also sets Allah above all creation. This same verse continues by saying, ?NOR DID HE CONCEIVE AN INDIVIDUAL SON?. This means that Allah does not have sex. This description sets Allah above all creation, because all creation performs sex in one form or fashion, to reproduce. Allah is not a male nor a female, He (Allah) is not a human being. He (Allah) is a Spiritual Being, beyond the imagination of the mind of man. We (humans) can not conceive His (Allah?s) shape or form. The Creator (Allah) is beyond the scope of what mortal man perceives as infinity....

Qur?aan 6103
No vision can grasp Him. But His grasp is over all vision He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.

The whole chapter of Qur?aan 1121-4 destroys the following principles

Belief in plurality of gods of the plurality of persons in godhead.
Belief that other things possess the perfect attributes of the Divine Creator.
Belief that anyone may be specially related to Allah - as a blood son or daughter of the Creator.
Belief that others may do what is ascribable only to the Divine Creator.

Danish I have demonstrated inside the Qur?aan to prove that Huwa is He whom He is, which is The Creator of all that exists (visible and invisible), The Life Giver, The Majestic Creator and Sustainer of all whom we (Muslims) bow down and worship. Us Muslims Danish is still waiting for you to produce evidence inside the Qur?aan which reduces Allah to some idol diety, masculine, plural, feminine etc. etc. as you claim. Danish just sitting back inside your house on the computer alone and I?m sure along with your dirty socks and boxer making blanket statement inside the matrix (internet) but yet has failed to produce any evidence inside Al Qur?aan to back up your empty statements. I am not nor any clear thinking Muslim is moved by OPINIONS/STATEMENTS alone.

Danish more empty statements

?The word Allah was commonly attributed to many supreme gods of various cults and regions, such as the supreme god named Hubal of the meccan cults, which answers your concern of this word being used during and even long before Muhammad was born.?

No Danish that has not answered my concerns but it only exposes your attempted to mesmerize clear thinking Muslims. I would seriously advice you to read that link I left up above because again the existence Allah predates all those idols you attempted to associate Allah with.

You have said this

?I believe the word "Jehovah" has linguistic and transcriptional problems and therefore much disputed, but nonetheless and once again, it was a proper name of a deity and the Hebrews called him The God.?

Let me correct you real quick, the term ?Jehovah? is another man-made term that never existed in the original scriptures. In the Semitic language (Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew) the letter ?j?, ?o?, ?v? does not exist. This is another concocted name so you are incorrect when you have said ?it was a proper name of a deity? and you continued shuffling and said, ?and the Hebrews called him The God?. Remember English did not exist and no scripture ever was revealed in English so this term ?GOD? was never heard of nor used by the people you are identifying as Hebrew. The Prophets of Allah who walked this earth never heard of these terms ?God & Jehovah?. Below is Ahmed Deedat?s book ?What Is His Name? breaking this all down for you

http//www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/books/Books/wihn/index.html

Danish what you said below is blasphemy of the highest degree

?Just like Jesus is a proper name and many Christians believe that he was/is God himself. In other words, Jesus was/is Allah.?

This is what the Holy Qur?aan says

Qur?aan 351
Surely Allah is my (the Messiah) Lord and your Lord, so therefore serve and worship Him (Allah) alone. This is a straight path.

As we can see Isa (whom you call Jesus) denounce being Allah because he only worshiped Allah and he instructed us to worship Allah. It was your Christian people Danish who played a major role in tampering with the scriptures and changing the original name of the Creator to supplant their man-made greek pagan deity they called ?GOD? in the minds of the people. This is a trick the Jinn use to remove the roots of Islaam from the consciousness of the believers and misguide them under the name they fashion/fabricated with their own hands and wicket thoughts they call ?GOD?, thus it is not the same as Allah.

Below is another one of your fallacies

?Allah is a masculine form addressed by He, Him and His?

It amazes me Danish to see you use an English word ?He/Him? to derive a masculine of Allah. This form of logic will only work on Christians who are brain washed when it comes to Islaam. Danish let me ask you a question, was the Qur?aan revealed in Arabic or English? I ask you that because you are using English grammar/laws and applying that to the Arabic language, you cannot do that. Arabic has its own sets of laws that govern its own language, again which is definately not English. So when we Muslims read the English translation of Al Qur?aan and when we come across terms such as ?He/Him? we do not conjure up a masculine or any human being for that matter. Is this is all you can come with Danish. Are you that desperate for an argument to justify your position where you have to go into a separate language such as English and use their grammar/laws and apply that to a language which is foreign to that such as Arabic? Danish you also have said

?In Arabic you can change the letter "a" into a capital or small case.?

This does not apply in the Arabic language using the Creator's name ALLAH

No wonder Noble has said

?Danish, the corner shop atheist and PhD in Putrifaction thus spoke...?

I HAVE SAID

"Qur?aan 2111
They said, ?No one will enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian!? Such is their wishful thinking. Say, ?Show us your proof, if you are truthful

So Danish (the Christian) Produce your proof if you are truthful!!.?

AND YOU RESPONDED BY SAYING

?Take this verse up with a Jew or a Christian.?

Since you are a christian that verse was appropriate and we are still waiting for the evidence/proof because Danish all you have done was present empty statements/opinions but never produced any solid evidence INSIDE THE QUR?AAN.

Salaam

Al_Khidr

As Salaamu Alaykum Fatimah

This was a nice article that you gave us on the Arabic word Ibadah

http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm

I noticed how the article broke down the meaning of the word and I also noticed that the author of the article also used the word "worship" as part of its meaning. To bad that Samia couldn't read the article correctly. You know Fatimah some people's minds are blocked from understanding as written in Al Qur'aan.

Salaam

Al_Khidr

Salaam idolfree

Qur'aan 2197
Hajj shall be observed in the specified months. Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, Allah is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, remember that the best provision is piety and righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence.

I see that you translate Hajj in this verse 2197 to mean DEBATE. Man this is way out. Not only you see 2 Salaat in Al Qur'aan and you don't physically prostrate but you actually translate Hajj in that verse to mean DEBATE.

I have another question for you idolfree, do you even fast during the month of Ramadaan. You know what I mean right, I'm asking if you physically abstain from eating, drinking etc. during Ramadaan or do Ramadaan have some way out meaning like the word Hajj has to you in verse 2197?

You guys are some way out Muslims.

Salaam

Peace be upon you Al Khidr,

Why would you translate "Hajj" in 2197 as Debate instead of Pilgrimage?

Because thats what it means. If you compile all of the verses with that root, the result will speak for itself.

Further, why would the God force some people to travel halfway around the world while others can cartwheel to the location.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Al Khidr,

Yes, hajja is debate. I have not come to a conclusion of abstaining(sawm) yet. I see examples where people were told top abstain(sawm) from talking for three days. I am still have not made the connections here yet.

Yes, I know it seems way out coming from tradition, thats why most follow what there fathers follow blindly. But I chose to use my God Given faculties to observe and verify and follow the best opinion(that which is verified).

unknownuser

Al Khidr,

You've done nothing but circumvent. When one moves around in circles at Kaba, bows and prostrates toward a stone structure several times each and every day, runs back and forth amock a strip, gets into a devilish act of a stone throwing contest and calls upon Allah (emphasized to become The God in Arabic), one gets "dizzy". The remedy for this dizziness (going in circles and getting disoriented) is to take a doze of my earlier post, keeping in mind that your swirling claims has already been overthrown and debunked, hence there's no point of repeating myself. Better luck next time and take a course in Putrifaction, it may help you clense your system. ;D

Al_Khidr

Salaam Idolfree

You have said this in regards to fasting during the month of Ramadaan

"I have not come to a conclusion of abstaining(sawm) yet."

I kind of figured you would say something like that. I see that your shuffling during the Month of Ramadaan as we speak. Fasting is a command from Allah below are the verses

Qur?aan 2183
O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may be righteous.

Qur?aan 2187
Permitted for you during the nights of fasting is sexual intercourse with your wives. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. Allah knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Now, you may have intercourse with them, seeking what Allah has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until night time. Do not have sex with them if you decide to retreat to the masjid. These are Allah?s laws; you shall not transgress them. Allah thus clarifies His revelations for the people, so that they may be righteous.

You can not get any clearer than this.

idolfree I have another question for you

Do you believe that everything in the Qur'aan is metmporphical/allegorical and there are not decisive or literal verses in the Qur'aan?

Salaam

Al_Khidr

As Salaamu Alaykum Danish The Christian

Due to your Jinn nature you continue to make mistakes after mistakes and continue to fight Islaam, below is your statement

?prostrates toward a stone structure several times each and every day?

And similarly idolfree interprets a Muslim performing the act of prostration as worshiping stars, planets, etc. instead of Allah, below is his statement

?but realize that the seated posture is better to align your respiratory system and that you are not bowing before the God who is not an object, but instead bowing to the SUN or MOON (physical objects representing day and night).?

Both of you have a lot of things in common and also are ignorant to the simple Message of Al Qur?aan and lack Furqaan (all in the same process), which is the ability to differentiate from Truth and Falsehood. I fight with the words of Allah and this is what Our Master, Our Sovereign has said in regards to both of your alleged allegations that we (Muslims) prostrate to objects other than Allah

Qur?aan 4137
Among His signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not fall prostrate before the sun, nor the moon, and fall prostrate before Allah, who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.

When us Muslims prostrate in Salaat, we do not worship planets, stars, the Ka?aba, idols or any other object. Both of you two need a spanking & sent to your bed room for concealing what you know is TRUTH. The Jinn has his agents and puppets here to water down and erase Islaam but this will NEVER happen because Allah?s promise (of Islaam dominating all religions, the world) is being fulfilled at this very time we speak. Your god ?SHAYTAAN? that you serve and uphold will loose at the end and this is what he will tell both of you at the end

Qur?aan 1423
And the devil will say, after the judgment has been issued, ?ALLAH has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.?

Danish, below is another foolish mistake of yours when you said

?gets into a devilish act of a stone throwing?

Allah no where in the Holy Qur?aan instructs us Muslims to stone anything in Mecca. Sunni Muslims who have strayed from the straight path do that as a result of following hadiyth but Allah never instructs us to commit this form of idol worship of throwing stones at a pillar or statue and I CHALLENGE YOU Danish to produce a verse in the Qur?aan that says this, remember you cannot fool a Muslim now these days and we are not impressed with empty statements with no scriptures or proof to back up what you say. Read the verse below, this is what Muslim are suppose to do according to Al Qur?aan

Qur?aan 2125
And when We made the House (the Ka?aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary, and once this was done We took the station of Abraham as a place of worship for you. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail ?You shall purify My House for those who make the circuit and for those who remain therein to meditate and for those who bow down in prostration.

Where does it say to throw stones? Muslims do not worship planets, idols, the Ka?aba, we mediate and worship Allah.

One final thing, Danish you closed with this remark

?hence there's no point of repeating myself?

We all know this is your easy way out sinse you never, ever produced any verse in the Qur?aan to justify your foolish attacks on Allah by trying to reduce Him to anything within this physical universe, which is impossible.

Qur?aan 3967
They can never fathom the greatness of Allah. The whole planet earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection. In fact, all the boundless universes are folded within His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above needing any partners.

Learn about assamawaati
http//www.freewebs.com/nuwr19/assamawaati.htm

Salaam

Al Khidr,

You've done nothing but circumvent. When one moves around in circles at Kaba, bows and prostrates toward a stone structure several times each and every day, runs back and forth amock a strip, gets into a devilish act of a stone throwing contest and calls upon Allah (emphasized to become The God in Arabic), one gets "dizzy". The remedy for this dizziness (going in circles and getting disoriented) is to take a doze of my earlier post, keeping in mind that your swirling claims has already been overthrown and debunked, hence there's no point of repeating myself. Better luck next time and take a course in Putrifaction, it may help you clense your system. ;D

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Al Khidr,

You have said this in regards to fasting during the month of Ramadaan

"I have not come to a conclusion of abstaining(sawm) yet."

I kind of figured you would say something like that. I see that your shuffling during the Month of Ramadaan as we speak.

the word "ramadhan" refers to extreme heat, so why would I follow a teaching that has this time moving all over the seasons.

Fasting is a command from Allah below are the verses

Qur?aan 2183
O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may be righteous.

The word "sawm" means abstaining. You can abstain from food, drink, sex, talking, etc. We are shown that people abstained from talking. Yet I am being told that we are to abstain from food and drink. So I am still studying with the understanding that the interpretation that was forced on me is most likely incorrect.

Qur?aan 2187
Permitted for you during the nights of fasting is sexual intercourse with your wives. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. Allah knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Now, you may have intercourse with them, seeking what Allah has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until night time. Do not have sex with them if you decide to retreat to the masjid. These are Allah?s laws; you shall not transgress them. Allah thus clarifies His revelations for the people, so that they may be righteous.

You can not get any clearer than this.

It will have to get clearer than that.

idolfree I have another question for you

Do you believe that everything in the Qur'aan is metmporphical/allegorical and there are not decisive or literal verses in the Qur'aan?

Feeding the poor is literal as an example.

unknownuser

Al Khidr,

I read from your several posts and some of the stuff you promulgate from your "voodoo" link you keep providing (http//www.freewebs.com), is nothing but a 19'er modern junky.

?prostrates toward a stone structure several times each and every day?

All Muslims prostrate towards this stone structure called Kaba, including the 19'er junkies. Those who don't, are simply not Muslims, even though they think they are.

Both of you have a lot of things in common and also are ignorant to the simple Message of Al Qur?aan and lack Furqaan (all in the same process), which is the ability to differentiate from Truth and Falsehood. I fight with the words of Allah and this is what Our Master, Our Sovereign has said in regards to both of your alleged allegations that we (Muslims) prostrate to objects other than Allah

Qur?aan 4137
Among His signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not fall prostrate before the sun, nor the moon, and fall prostrate before Allah, who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.

The Sun, Moon and Allah (Hubal) were reminiscence (mental impressions) of pagan stone idols. Do your homework on The Sun God and The Moon God throughout history. You can start from studying Zoroastrinism and make your way up to Islam. Muhammad destroyed them by way of his bloody sword, not bloody intellect, and kept the term Allah, which simply means The God. "The God" is not a proper name of any entity but denotes and emphasizes the supremacy and highness of. You will find abundance of The GODS (Alihatun) throughout history in many pagan cultures.

When us Muslims prostrate in Salaat, we do not worship planets, stars, the Ka?aba, idols or any other object.

Today, you can deny or twist and lie about it, but yesterday you cannot. It is a checkmate and you can do nothing about it. Either you continue to bow and prostrate towards a stone structure, circumvent around it, slaughter animals for the sake of this Allah, run amock Safa and Marwah and beat the heck out of the stone devils or claim yourself a non-Muslim. a kafir, with or without the 19'er modern junky.

Qur?aan 1423
And the devil will say, after the judgment has been issued, ?ALLAH has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.?

Stone worshippers neither speak nor listen and have no brains.

Danish, below is another foolish mistake of yours when you said

?gets into a devilish act of a stone throwing?

Allah no where in the Holy Qur?aan instructs us Muslims to stone anything in Mecca. Sunni Muslims who have strayed from the straight path do that as a result of following hadiyth but Allah never instructs us to commit this form of idol worship of throwing stones at a pillar or statue and I CHALLENGE YOU Danish to produce a verse in the Qur?aan that says this, remember you cannot fool a Muslim now these days and we are not impressed with empty statements with no scriptures or proof to back up what you say. Read the verse below, this is what Muslim are suppose to do according to Al Qur?aan

Qur?aan 2125
And when We made the House (the Ka?aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary, and once this was done We took the station of Abraham as a place of worship for you. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail ?You shall purify My House for those who make the circuit and for those who remain therein to meditate and for those who bow down in prostration.

Where does it say to throw stones? Muslims do not worship planets, idols, the Ka?aba, we mediate and worship Allah.

This only comes from the mouth of a 19'er modern junky. You're challenging me to bring verses from the Quran to support the stone throwing ordeal, when you, yourself cannot support the step by step procedure of a 5 time ritualistic salaat towards your deity, a stone stucture that you face towards, day-in and day-out, at Kaba. Surely, there are no such verses, but then why do it and where did it come from? You also mentioned verse 2197 where Hajj is performed at specified months. I CHALLENGE you bring verses that mention the "specified months"? What are those specified months and where do you get that information from and how is exactly Hajj performed in its illustrous and dramatic pagan ways? I'm absolutely certain that there's much to talk about when it comes to what is and what is not mentioned in the Quran. I doubt you have the guts.

One final thing, Danish you closed with this remark

?hence there's no point of repeating myself?

We all know this is your easy way out sinse you never, ever produced any verse in the Qur?aan to justify your foolish attacks on Allah by trying to reduce Him to anything within this physical universe, which is impossible.

Whether there is a verse or not, it is YOU, who is attacking Allah, making a mockery and a fool out of your own faniciful man-made deity.

Qur?aan 3967
They can never fathom the greatness of Allah. The whole planet earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection. In fact, all the boundless universes are folded within His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above needing any partners.

HUBAL, The God (Allah) was kept atop the roof of Kaba, the Throne, to display HIS greatness and power among other gods and godsesses. This Allah (The God) was exemplified, glorified, exalted and preyed upon from every angle to bring about all sorts of rituals, rites, rules and commands Muhammad can think of by his very bloody sword, to bring about his version of monotheisism named Islam, which got infiltrated into Quran.

Learn about assamawaati
http//www.freewebs.com/nuwr19/assamawaati.htm

Lean history before, during and after Islam, together with the history of the compilation of Quran, you'll have all your answers at your fingertips. The freewebs.com is full of junk.

edit And btw, FYI, I was/am never a Christian nor an atheist. I was born and raised as a Muslim almost all my past life, performed all rituals including Umra and paid my respect to several Imans throughout Egypt and Arabia, can read, recite and write Arabic fluently and recently turned humanist (a naturalist). My life is not written in books and you will never know who I am.

Al_Khidr

Qur?aan 4137
Among His signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not fall prostrate before the sun, nor the moon, and fall prostrate before Allah, who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.

As Salaamu Alaykum Danish (the under cover christian)

You have made such claim

?I was born and raised as a Muslim almost all my past life?

and

?can read, recite and write Arabic fluently?

After all the rhetoric I have heard from you and Danish if this is true (which I?m skeptical of) but if it is true then it only augments my position of TRUTH and compounds the fact that you are indeed a kafir (disbelieve/one who conceals what he knows is truth). Two verses came to mind after reading your two claims up above

Qur?aan 2159
Those who conceal Our revelations and guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the scripture-these are they who are cursed by Allah and are cursed by those who curse-

Qur?aan 2161-162
161. Those who disbelieve and die as disbelievers, have incurred the curse of Allah, and the Angelic Beings, and all the people.
162. Eternally they abide therein. The pain will not be lightened for them, and no respite shall be given to them.

And you have concluded in your response again by saying

?and you will never know who I am?

Yea, we know who you are kafir?

You have made such declarations

?You're challenging me to bring verses from the Quran to support the stone throwing ordeal?

and

?Whether there is a verse or not?

Remember you christian, it was you who made such claims, I only came behind you and asked you to produce your evidence (2111) inside Al Qur?aan and all you do is continue on rambling and making EMPTY STATEMENTS and trying to mesmerize every one with your OPINIONS, but no substance inside Al Qur?aan to back anything up and that is because your lies and falsehood became exhausted?

You have said

?when you, yourself cannot support the step by step procedure of a 5 time ritualistic salaat towards your deity, a stone stucture that you face towards, day-in and day-out, at Kaba. Surely, there are no such verses, but then why do it and where did it come from??

Below is the physical/verifiable evidence in the Qur?aan for the prescribed 5 Salaat, take it or leave it alone!

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/findsalaatinquraan.htm

http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.0

Now its time to close exalting The Life Giver ALLAH from the Glorious Qur?aan

All the Prophets that were sent into this world by the Creator used the name ALLAH and the original scriptures was revealed in the Mother Language ARABIC. Allah is Waahid (One) and Allah is Ahad (Alone). Allah, has no partners (Qur?aan 5922-23 ; 573; 1651; 23116; 2255; 3964-66; 3427; 4014,84; 2870 ). Allah is the Creator of everything in existence. Allah is the Sustainer, Sovereign, Master of all creations and all creatures within all the Boundless Universes, visible and invisible. Allah possesses the following attributes that no man or female, or anything in existence can possess, visible or invisible Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. Allah is above all creation, none can equal Allah.

Qur?aan 2163-165
163. Your Creator is One Creator. There is no other god except He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
164. In the creation of the galactic heavens and the planet earth, the alternation of night and day, the ships that roam the ocean for the benefit of the people, the water that Allah sends down from the sky to revive dead land and to spread in it all kinds of creatures, the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the sky and the planet earth, these are signs for people who understand.
165. And yet there are some people who set up idols to rival Allah, and loving them as Allah should be loved. And those who securely believe are stronger in their love for Allah. If only the transgressors could see themselves when they see the punishment! They will realize then that all power belongs to Allah alone, and that Allah is severe at inflicting the punishment.

Danish (the christian) one thing we all know from this dialogue is that you have made attacks after attacks on Allah and issued out several claims in your position and have NOT produced any evidence in Al Qur?aan what-so-ever. Danish this is advice for you A clear thinking Muslim operates on mathematics and as such we are not moved by those who debate with only EMPTY STATEMENTS/OPINIONS, thus we are only moved by FACTS/MATHEMATICS/EVIDENCE, which was the weakness in your position and the foundation of your argument. A christian kafir such as yourself cannot defeat the TRUTH Of ALLAH, again take it or leave it alone.

Salaam to all believers of the Light Of Islaam