Criticism of Mecca and Kaaba
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Peace bro "simple",
I strongly diagree with you saying the quran doesnt have anything to do with animals but merely humans since the environemnt and ultimaely OUR HELTH AN WELBEING is dependant on those creatures as well. They all have a purpose. This is the main reason greenpeace is out saving species who are in danger of extinction. This is not just done out of emotion and love for the animals you know. GOD Bless!Of course from your point of view,i totally agree . bravo
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Hajj is clearly to the "physical" almasjidi alharami
- Waatimmoo alhajja waalAAumrata lillahi fa-in ohsirtum fama istaysara mina alhadyi wala tahliqoo ruoosakum hatta yablugha alhadyu mahillahu faman kana minkum mareedan aw bihi athan min ra/sihi fafidyatun min siyamin aw sadaqatin aw nusukin fa-itha amintum faman tamattaAAa bialAAumrati ila alhajji fama istaysara mina alhadyi faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin fee alhajji wasabAAatin itha rajaAAtum tilka AAasharatun kamilatun thalika liman lam yakun ahluhu hadiree almasjidi alharami waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha shadeedu alAAiqabi
2196 And complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination; but whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a sacrifice. But if you are able, then whoever continues the visit until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what is affordable of donation; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not present at the Restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
2197 The Pilgrimage is towards the months which have been appointed. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.
2158 The Safa and Marwah are amongst God's symbols. So whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error that he should traverse within them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.
2189 They ask you regarding the crescent moons, Say "They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the Pilgrimage." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whomever is righteous and come to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed
2217 They ask you about the restricted month "Is there fighting in it?" Say "Much fighting is in it, and to repel from the path of God and to disbelieve in Him, and at the Restricted Temple, to drive its inhabitants out is far greater with God, and persecution is worse than being killed." And they still will fight you until they turn you back from your system if they are able. And whoever of you turns back from his system, and he dies while disbelieving, then these have nullified their work in this life and the next; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally!
52 O you who believe, do not violate God's symbols, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted Sanctuary; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And bond together in piety and righteousness, and do not bind together in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for God's retribution is severe.
595 O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whosoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make such as a donation to reach the Kaaba. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whosoever returns, then God will seek vengeance from him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.
596 Lawful for you is the catch of the sea, to eat it as enjoyment for you and for those who travel; and forbidden for you is the catch of the land as long as you are under restriction; and be aware of God to whom you will be gathered.
597 God has made the Kaaba to be the Restricted Sanctuary, to enforce for the people, and for the restricted month, and for the donations, and for regulation; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in Earth, and that God is aware of all things.
2226 And We have appointed to Abraham the location of the Sanctuary "Do not set up anyone with Me, and purify My Sanctuary for those who will partake, and those who will enforce, and those who kneel and prostrate."
2227 And call out to the people with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
2228 So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God's name in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.
2229 Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them traverse at the ancient Sanctuary.
Peace
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Did you read "the arab conspiracies" by "Aidid Safar"?
No jonny_k only read it in Qur'an...
009.101
YUSUFALI Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk they are obstinate in hypocrisy thou knowest them not We know them twice shall We punish them and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.Peace
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Maxq,
How do you know that iliehi does not refer to the God. Iliehim is the plural. Iliehi is just a singular and very specific pointing to a single entity. is the plural and refers to group of things/people.
I am quoting verses which clarify the diffrence.
Chapter 70
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From God, Possessor of the ascending portals.
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The Angels and the Spirit ascent to Him in a day whose measurement is a fifty thousand years.
Chapter 7
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We will ask those to whom We have sent, and We will ask the messengers.
Chapter 10
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To Him is your return, all of you, for God?s promise is true. He initiates the creation then He returns it to recompense with justice those who believed and did good work. As for those who rejected, they will have a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Jonny_k
Arab conspiracy by Aidad Safar is a very overexagerrated claim. Famous chritoph Luxumburg a western scholar (actually arab christian) attacked the Quran most aggressively by making exagerrated claims about arabic root word meanings of the Quran. Aidad Safar had a prejudice to prove that Arabs are wrong by any means so he naturally arrived at meanings he has written in his article. A million dollar Question is Has the Quranic Arabic changed completely at the hands of the Arabs ? Then the present day Quran is a mistranslation and we would have to find a newly translated Quran by archaeological research. The Quranic language we are using are obtained from present day arab sources and we are in no position to find a purely hidden Quran somehere simply by believeing that the present day Arabs are all hypocrites. Should we start inventing meanings according to the logical feelings we have ? everyone has diffrent feelings so we are going to have thousands of mistranslated Qurans for the sake of logic. Get realistic and not imaginary!
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jonny_k wrote
Did you read "the arab conspiracies" by "Aidid Safar"? Btw guys wheres the link to tht page gone? GOD Bless!if u want to believe by what he says...cool! -)
...some believe by what the quran says! -)
by the way...i am still waiting for some info on the becca which u said exists in jerusalem! -)
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if u want to believe by what he says...cool! -)
...some believe by what the quran says! -)
peace thegod,
can we avoid these types of comments on this thread?
you are assuming that what Jonny believes is not what the quran says. Your interpretation is not necessarily the right one, so show a bit of humbleness here, alright. I know we're all arrogant jerks and controlling ourselves is hard, but we must try our best. Thank you! -
Peace
Since the Quraan instructs the Messenger to change the direction/Qiblah from what he is used to and to a Qibla which he will be pleased with (and also if we assume it is the prayer direction which is referred to here) How did the Messenger decide the earlier prayer direction without any instructions regarding that in the Quraan?
Did he follow the Jews and the Torah and adhere to the earlier prayer direction which is possibly the Holy of the holies where the Dome of the rock now stands in Jerusalem until the verse came to change it.
Since the Qiblah is not directly linked to salat in the Quraan other than the reference in 1087 , can we assume that the word Qiblah was associated with prayer direction so commonly with Jews and their scripture that it would have been basic common sense to select it as the direction for prayer.
In that sense can we use the Quraan to compare with Torah and other scriptures and verify matters which we can agree on Gods words since the Bible has Gods words plus man?s inclusions. What I mean is a comparison to find out what is in line with the Quraan and what is not.
10 87
Yusuf Ali We inspired Moses and his brother with this message "Provide dwellings for your People in Egypt make your dwellings into places of worship and establish regular prayers and give Glad Tidings to those who believe!"
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Transliteration Wa auhaina_ ila_ mu_sa_ wa akhihi an tabawwa'a li qaumikuma_ bi misra buyu_taw waj'alu_ buyu_takum qiblataw wa aqimus sala_h(ta), wa basysyiril mu'minin(a).Or the Messengers did things based on thier insticts or based on the earlier scriptures until God sent a message to confirm it or change it.
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Peace and greetings,
The greatest problem faced by Quran only muslims is that they are trying to translate the Quran according to their individual inclinations towards logic and personal tendencies. There is a growing habit of mixing up metaphorical and literal meanings according to personal preferences. They have stereotyped the arabic sources as a hypocricy of shia, sunni arabs. There is little agreement on appropriate meanings of Quranic words between them. So the reliability, credibility and trustworthiness of the classical Arabic language is reduced to personal preference. Where do we go from here? To a multilingual classical arabic with so many different directions that an outsider would interprete us as people playing games with the classical arabic language. My advise to all people interested in Classical Arabic root words and derivations is that find out the most authentic translations of the Quran and keep a good collection of both modern arabic and classical arabic dictionaries. Do not stereotype arabs as hypocrites, but keep within the limits of diffrent synonyms defined by reliable arabic sources. Aquire a great deal of knowledge in science, philosophy, sociology, psychology, history, linguistics both arabic and english before forming criteria for literal and metaphorical meanings which require a great deal of knowledge than passion of logic. Do not impatiently form meanings according to your passion for logic, discuss with knowlegable people to get reliable ideas before reaching a conclusion.
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Peace and greetings,
I agree with warner about the first Qibla which was appointed by the God as the God did not raise objection towards Muhammad's Qibla which was according to his instinct.
warner said
"the Messengers did things based on thier insticts or based on the earlier scriptures until God sent a message to confirm it or change it."
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phoenix1 wrote
can we avoid these types of comments on this thread?you are assuming that what Jonny believes is not what the quran says.
read again...he seems to be convinced by what a particular bloke says...and if he is convinced then he does believe by what the bloke says! -)
Your interpretation is not necessarily the right one, so show a bit of humbleness here, alright. I know we're all arrogant jerks and controlling ourselves is hard, but we must try our best. Thank you!
u can only know urself...not others...so i ll believe u when u speak for urself! -)
talking of what the quran says...arent u the person who goes around saying if the quran doesnt make sense to ur sensibility, it is wrong...talk about double standards! grin
peace phoneix1! -)
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If that's the case then I can say that you are 100% wrong... where do we go from there?
Agree to disagree
c u
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if u want to believe by what he says...cool! -)
...some believe by what the quran says! -)
by the way...i am still waiting for some info on the becca which u said exists in jerusalem! -)
Very good point mate
Cheers
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Peace and greetings,
The greatest problem faced by Quran only muslims is that they are trying to translate the Quran according to their individual inclinations towards logic and personal tendencies. There is a growing habit of mixing up metaphorical and literal meanings according to personal preferences.
Salam
What you said above is written in the Quran
Cheers
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Peace "abrar",
Peace and greetings,
Dear Jonny_k
Arab conspiracy by Aidad Safar is a very overexagerrated claim. Famous chritoph Luxumburg a western scholar (actually arab christian) attacked the Quran most aggressively by making exagerrated claims about arabic root word meanings of the Quran. Aidad Safar had a prejudice to prove that Arabs are wrong by any means so he naturally arrived at meanings he has written in his article. A million dollar Question is Has the Quranic Arabic changed completely at the hands of the Arabs ? Then the present day Quran is a mistranslation and we would have to find a newly translated Quran by archaeological research. The Quranic language we are using are obtained from present day arab sources and we are in no position to find a purely hidden Quran somehere simply by believeing that the present day Arabs are all hypocrites. Should we start inventing meanings according to the logical feelings we have ? everyone has diffrent feelings so we are going to have thousands of mistranslated Qurans for the sake of logic. Get realistic and not imaginary!
JK- I believe such an archeolgical reasearch is absolutely necessary to understand the complete truth of the Quran. i have a lot of probs with accepting hajj as pilgrimage actually. If Aidid's claims are correct then it would make perfect sense and the words of the Quran indeed do allow for such a meaning amongst others. Btw the Quran itself says that the Arabs/desert Arabs(Sheikhs/Mulahs) are the worst hypocrites so it all adds up doesnt it? And yes i believe if we come together ultimately we all humans will arrive at a siilar meaning of the Quranic verses but that has just started and is exactly what wer trying to do here. GOD Bless!
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Peace "abrar",
Peace and greetings,
The greatest problem faced by Quran only muslims is that they are trying to translate the Quran according to their individual inclinations towards logic and personal tendencies. There is a growing habit of mixing up metaphorical and literal meanings according to personal preferences.
JK- Abrar lemme remind u tht sunnis/shias themselves use fanatasy on Quranic verses if it suits them. You have to accept the fact of "ambiguity in language" and that a verse can have more than one meaning. It is up to the society and i say scientific society to study which menaing makes more sense and i believe such a society with rational thought will be supported by GOD. Thats the only way. On the other hands we have the Mullahs interpreting Quran with non authentic sources with no sense of rationality, no scientific approch and zero archeological evidence. Its just a belief passed on from the forefathers and the irony is that the Quran is against this as well. GOD Bless!
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u can only know urself...not others...so i ll believe u when u speak for urself! -)
talking of what the quran says...arent u the person who goes around saying if the quran doesnt make sense to ur sensibility, it is wrong...talk about double standards!
my sensibilities?? what is that?
All I am looking for is proof. If I don't get it, and instead I get proof of the contrary, why wouldn't the quran be wrong?How has evidence and proof and reasoning turned into "my sensibilities?"