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  4. A Quran related question to Quranists

A Quran related question to Quranists

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    Leoxyz
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    A Quran related question
    Who was the person to whome "the Holy Quran " was revealed ?
    When was the Holy Quran revealed ?
    1100 yr back
    2400 yr back
    31000 yr back
    41400 yr back
    Any input from "Great minds" will be appreciated
    I hope you will not "run away " from this question as usual.

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      Ghulam_Rasool
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      They will probably say its not important.

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        Leoxyz
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        They will probably say its not important.

        rotfl rotflrotfl
        you are right.This is what I am expecting.
        Second methodolyg =shifting of the thread to some other section.

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I don't know about the "Holy Quran", but I have a quran here, which is thus

          A => To Muhammad

          B => Earliest (as in verified physically, not based on hearsay and conjecture) = 650AD.

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            Leoxyz
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I don't know about the "Holy Quran", but I have a quran here, which is thus

            A => To Muhammad

            B => Earliest (as in verified physically, not based on hearsay and conjecture) = 650AD.

            Would you provide the evidence for both of your statements?
            Thanks in advance

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              Roshan
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace

              Presumably you can accept that the Quran numerous times states that it was sent down to the messenger. As for the timing issue, is this leading to the how can you verify the Quran's collection without 'hadith' argument?

              Peace

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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Would you provide the evidence for both of your statements?
                Thanks in advance

                A

                As for the Muhammad business. There are two places that you have to remember

                Muhammadun rasoolullah= Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
                Wama muhammadun illa rasoolun qad khlat min qablihi arrusulu, afain mata aw qutila inqalbtum ala AAqabikum= And Muhammad is but a messenger, the messengers left before him. So, if he died or was killed, you turn away on the back of your feet.

                When you put those two together, then you will get that he was the only messenger of that time and that the people who were addressed knew who their messenger was.

                More to follow.

                B=> http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

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                  Ghulam_Rasool
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Isn't Islamic Awareness a Sunni Muslim resource?

                  Still the earliest complete manuscript, or even the earliest fragments can only point to a general time era that the Holy Quran was revealed and compiled. You need to refer to the ahadeeth to get the juicy details, such as in what context the verses were revealed and in what order they were revealed.

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Isn't Islamic Awareness a Sunni Muslim resource?

                    Still the earliest complete manuscript, or even the earliest fragments can only point to a general time era that the Holy Quran was revealed and compiled. You need to refer to the ahadeeth to get the juicy details, such as in what context the verses were revealed and in what order they were revealed.

                    If it has verified physical evidence, it is perfectly valid, even if it's the antichrist's website. Reality does not lie.

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                      Leoxyz
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      If it has verified physical evidence, it is perfectly valid, even if it's the antichrist's website. Reality does not lie.

                      Is the Sunni source a reliable one ??
                      What is the criteria of its reliability ? Is the Sunni source not a hearsay source??
                      If I rely only on Quran which is fully explained and clear ,cann't it tell me to whome and when it was revealed ?

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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Is the Sunni source a reliable one ??
                        What is the criteria of its reliability ? Is the Sunni source not a hearsay source??
                        If I rely only on Quran which is fully explained and clear ,cann't it tell me to whome and when it was revealed ?

                        It's a source, not a "Sunni source". The people there refer to themselves as muslims, indirectly, please do not label them.

                        Criteria of its reliability? Are you joking? They presented physical, tanglible evidence, and dated accordingly.

                        If I rely only on Quran which is fully explained and clear ,cann't it tell me to whome and when it was revealed ?

                        Yes, and I wish to know how Muhammad cooked pizza, I wish God would bring a Quran other than this one )

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                          Navid
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Still the earliest complete manuscript, or even the earliest fragments can only point to a general time era that the Holy Quran was revealed and compiled. You need to refer to the ahadeeth to get the juicy details, such as in what context the verses were revealed and in what order they were revealed.

                          And why does this mean we must follow ahadith as divine guidance/law, brother?

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                            afridi220
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Yes, and I wish to know how Muhammad cooked pizza, I wish God would bring a Quran other than this one

                            eat There was no pizza at that time -[

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                              Leoxyz
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              It's a source, not a "Sunni source". The people there refer to themselves as muslims, indirectly, please do not label them.

                              Criteria of its reliability? Are you joking? They presented physical, tanglible evidence, and dated accordingly.

                              Yes, and I wish to know how Muhammad cooked pizza, I wish God would bring a Quran other than this one

                              So we what I deduce from your posts (Please do tell me if I am wrong),that Quran can tell us nothing about itself that
                              1To whome it was revealed
                              2When it was revealed
                              3In Which area it was revealed (Arabic is poken in many areas ,so it was not specific in Mecca or Madina)

                              To get the answer to these question we have to rely on "extra-quranic " sources.
                              Is my perception correct or not ??

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                                Navid
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                So we what I deduce from your posts (Please do tell me if I am wrong),that Quran can tell us nothing about itself that
                                1To whome it was revealed
                                2When it was revealed
                                3In Which area it was revealed (Arabic is poken in many areas ,so it was not specific in Mecca or Madina)

                                To get the answer to these question we have to rely on "extra-quranic " sources.
                                Is my perception correct or not ??

                                Sure if you want to know that information. Why does that mean we must follow ahadith as RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE/LAW?

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  So we what I deduce from your posts (Please do tell me if I am wrong),that Quran can tell us nothing about itself that
                                  1To whome it was revealed
                                  2When it was revealed
                                  3In Which area it was revealed (Arabic is poken in many areas ,so it was not specific in Mecca or Madina)

                                  To get the answer to these question we have to rely on "extra-quranic " sources.
                                  Is my perception correct or not ??

                                  It tells us the details relevant to our own guidance. Because, this is the purpose of Quran, to guide humanity to the straight path, not to open a doorway for the idolisation of prophets and messengers.

                                  The quran states to whom it was revealed, simple as that. Please explain the relevance of the next two questions. As for the location, it states it was revealed in Arabic, meaning it can be pinned within the general region of Arabia in 500-600AD.

                                  And yes, to find out details that are completely irrelevant to our guidance, we have to rely on extra-quranic sources.

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                                    Leoxyz
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Sure if you want to know that information. Why does that mean we must follow ahadith as RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE/LAW?

                                    Please do not distract the thread and be precise to answer. I will be grateful.
                                    So you accept that Quran does not tell at all
                                    1To whome it was revealed
                                    2When it was revealed
                                    3In which area of the middle East it was revealed.
                                    Is this perception about Quran correct ?

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                                      Navid
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Please do not distract the thread and be precise to answer. I will be grateful.
                                      So you accept that Quran does not tell at all
                                      1To whome it was revealed
                                      2When it was revealed
                                      3In which area of the middle East it was revealed.
                                      Is this perception about Quran correct ?

                                      No, the quran does not tell 2 and 3 because in from the quran's view, we do not need that information for guidance.

                                      Now that I have answered, don't dodge. Tell me why this means we must follow ahadith as religious guidance/law and not just take it for what it is (or less than that) a history book

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                                        Roshan
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Please do not distract the thread and be precise to answer. I will be grateful.
                                        So you accept that Quran does not tell at all
                                        1To whome it was revealed
                                        2When it was revealed
                                        3In which area of the middle East it was revealed.
                                        Is this perception about Quran correct ?

                                        Peace

                                        In order for a discussion to work it has to be two ways. With regards to this, I would ask, what are the point of your questions? Of course at some point, you will come to a level that the Quran does not answer. However, I would argue

                                        1 Multiple references to the messenger.
                                        2. There are references to events in history going on at the time of the Quran's revelation that are mentioned in the Quran (eg the 'you will soon defeat the Romans' verses)
                                        3. The Quran describes Muhammad as living in an area commutable by day to the town destroyed by God when the people did not heed Lut's message.

                                        So I would disagree with you on all three points, but do not forget what I mentioned in my first paragraph.

                                        Roshan

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                                          Leoxyz
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          No, the quran does not tell 2 and 3 because in from the quran's view, we do not need that information for guidance.

                                          Now that I have answered, don't dodge. Tell me why this means we must follow ahadith as religious guidance/law and not just take it for what it is (or less than that) a history book

                                          You accepted question number 2,3 but what about Question No 1
                                          We are not discussing other source of religious guidance for the time being.It is too premature.Sorry to say.
                                          Muslims believe in Muhammad PBUH as the last prophet.If Quran does not support this view that Holy Quran was revealed to Muhammad PBUH ,then any Non - muslim may ask me the Person to whome this was revealed .
                                          Please now tell me who was the person to whome this Quran was revealed ???
                                          Or accept that Quran is not capable to reply to these simple primliminary questions even.

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