A Quran related question to Quranists
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We cannot determine
1The name of the person to whome it was revealed
2How much time has elapsed that it was revealed
3Where was revealed
4What immediate effect did the quran had on the its follower
5id the Quran enable the people to establish some examplary state or not ?
6What was the character of the "receiver " of this book ?Honest/dishonest ,Liar /truthful, Kind/cruel
7Why did this book produce "stupids only" so that none of its followers could understand the meanings of salat/Hajj/Masjidul-Haraam for 1400yrs.Only in 20th/21st century could see a few "intellectuals" who could understand these meanings.(Subhanallah)Dear Leo; The quranist have answer for each and every of your question and that is
"THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT"
Quranist Mike, Iwould like to invite you to the ultimate truth, the reality of the life My religon Islam.
Mike Ok! what are your beliefs? whom do you believe in? what do you believe in?
Quranist Just read this book this is detailed and you will get answer to every thing!
MikeRealy? Who wrote this book??
Quranist Well,ahhhh,ahmmm,.... I don't know, but that is not important!
Mike What? that is not important? are you in your senses? the book you are giving me to read you think is detailed book has no author?
Quranist No, no, you did not understand, God is the author!
Mike Oh! so the book was sent down as it is, written by God?
Quranist hmmmm..... ah....It was actually revealed (wahi) to the prophet of God?
MikeOh! I see, the Prophet? who was he?
Quranist Well it is not important, just read the book it is detailed!
Mike But who was the prophet? I shold know about him, was he trustworthy? was he reliable? should i believe in him? Did he realy got the wahi?
Quranist It is not important, because Quran says he was trustworthy and reliable so if Quran says it, it is.
Mike What kind of argument is that? prophet is reliable because Quran says he is reliable? how can i verify that?
Quranist That is not important.
Mike I have just glanced through, what is this Abu-lahab?
Quranist See that is not important, you have to read the articles of brother Ayman and Layth to understand what is Abu lahab.
Mike But you said the book is detailed it contains every example and event; also who is this Hakeem Luqman?
Quranist It is not important, read brother Ayman and Layth for details....
Mike But you said.....
Quranist That is not important! -
Dear Leo; The quranist have answer for each and every of your question and that is
"THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT"
Quranist Mike, Iwould like to invite you to the ultimate truth, the reality of the life My religon Islam.
Mike Ok! what are your beliefs? whom do you believe in? what do you believe in?
Quranist Just read this book this is detailed and you will get answer to every thing!
MikeRealy? Who wrote this book??
Quranist Well,ahhhh,ahmmm,.... I don't know, but that is not important!
Mike What? that is not important? are you in your senses? the book you are giving me to read you think is detailed book has no author?This reaction of Mike shows he is not really interested in who did the writing in as much as who authored the book. Does which pulishing house published any book matter more than the author? Moreover, this is not the reply of many qur'aanists.
MikeOh! I see, the Prophet? who was he?
Quranist Well it is not important, just read the book it is detailed!
Mike But who was the prophet? I shold know about him, was he trustworthy? was he reliable? should i believe in him? Did he realy got the wahi?Again, Mike is not interested in a "name"...If he does not yet know who the prophet of Islam is, it would mean nothing to tell him his name is Zaid or Ubaid. What he wants to know is to find out if this Zaid or 3amr is trustworthy (This shows he hasn't yet read the hadiths about Muhammad, thanks God; otherwise he wouldn't even be having this conversation).
Again, this is not how a quranist ould reply.Quranist It is not important, because Quran says he was trustworthy and reliable so if Quran says it, it is.
Mike What kind of argument is that? prophet is reliable because Quran says he is reliable? how can i verify that?Why would the quranist say it was not important if it is there in the quran?
How would you advise Mike to verify the quran? The hadith now is an authenticator of the quran? Are you out of your mind?Mike I have just glanced through, what is this Abu-lahab?
Quranist See that is not important, you have to read the articles of brother Ayman and Layth to understand what is Abu lahab.
Mike But you said the book is detailed it contains every example and event; also who is this Hakeem Luqman?
Quranist It is not important, read brother Ayman and Layth for details....
Mike But you said.....You and the likes (and Mike) say quranists say the book is detailed. The quranist don't say that God does. If you (or Mike) have an issue with this, raise it with God. That's what Ayman and Layth (just to mention your examples) would tell him, too.
Part II
Quranist If that's all that bothers you, Mike, then you do not understand what the "ultimate truth" is. You want some fairy tales and society gossips. The best thing for you will be "Arabian Nights".
(The quranist wont give him any sahih, because Mike is younger than 18 )
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SAmia
This reaction of Mike shows he is not really interested in who did the writing in as much as who authored the book. Does which pulishing house published any book matter more than the author? Moreover, this is not the reply of many qur'aanists.
Oh! dear Samia that is what I and many would like to know and are trying to know? how would the Quranist answer? is this not the title of this THREAD.
Samia
Again, Mike is not interested in a "name"...If he does not yet know who the prophet of Islam is, it would mean nothing to tell him his name is Zaid or Ubaid. What he wants to know is to find out if this Zaid or 3amr is trustworthy (This shows he hasn't yet read the hadiths about Muhammad, thanks God; otherwise he wouldn't even be having this conversation).
Again, this is not how a quranist ould replyMay be not. But he is intrested as every normal human being would be inetrested in the behaviour of the preacher, was this FIRST preacher of the book trustworthy? Why should he believe in that Preacher?
Again that is what we want to know? How would the Quranist answer?Samia
Why would the quranist say it was not important if it is there in the quran?
How would you advise Mike to verify the quran? The hadith now is an authenticator of the quran? Are you out of your mind?Even if there is a "Katrina" typhoon in USA, all the agencies there try to find hand of OSAMA in it, like wise even if there is no one mentionining or talking about Hadith with Quranists, they never forget to mention Hadith.
Samia
You and the likes (and Mike) say quranists say the book is detailed. The quranist don't say that God does. If you (or Mike) have an issue with this, raise it with God. That's what Ayman and Layth (just to mention your examples) would tell him, too.
"The book is detailed", should be understood within context, Samia do you know what "Mubahala" is? and do you know that in Quran
Allah says
"If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after knowledge Hath come to thee, say "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say "Let us call our children and your children, our women and your women, our selves and yourselves, then, let us call out, and we shall make God's curse upon the liars."
and before this ayat Allah says
The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
Samia; stage is all yours
- Was Adam created from dust?
- "Be" and he was?
- What is the similarity between Jesus and Adam?
Part II
Quranist If that's all that bothers you, Mike, then you do not understand what the "ultimate truth" is. You want some fairy tales and society gossips. The best thing for you will be "Arabian Nights".
(The quranist wont give him any sahih, because Mike is younger than 18 )
Well; the Quranist will give Mike "Arabian Nights" and not "Sahih" because he is under 18 LOL Samia.
That is why I call you a Quranist. hail hailThat is similar to say I will not let you watch movies of "Pamela Anderson"
but "Baby face" or "Taboo" is Ok. prPart III
Next!
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Greetings Raj-ah
But he is intrested as every normal human being would be inetrested in the behaviour of the preacher, was this FIRST preacher of the book trustworthy? Why should he believe in that Preacher?
Are we not told to look to creation for all of our signs and verifications?
Thereby you will be able to figure out whether the message of the messenger (of any 'messanger' or book) is true or false.
God gives all generations the same chance to see, understand, and verify. Not just those of a certain era.
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Actually, the book could have come out of a toilet. Regarding the author/preacher, he is completely irrelevant. It must dishearten you to hear that, but to people with a faint grasp of objectiveness, the messenger never matters, the message does. Arguing against the messenger is a logical fallacy, and it does absolutely nothing towards the message - unless it can be proven physically that the messenger did not follow his message, and in the message, he is described as doing that (which has never happened, except through hearsay).
and before this ayat Allah says
The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
Samia; stage is all yours
- Was Adam created from dust?
- "Be" and he was?
- What is the similarity between Jesus and Adam?
For people with a grasp of reality, asexual humans are rare. This leaves a magical entity fornicating with a women, or b - Jesus being magically created - or c - the similitude is exactly that as described in the Quran, Jesus originated in exactly the same way as the first man, with a mother, with a father.
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Salaam
Does anyone here seriously think that Muhammad when he went to announce to people that he is the messenger of Allah and that he is receiving revelation from Allah started by rolling out his resume. For instance, Salaam , I am Muhammad I am truthful , honest my fathers and grand fathers name , my mothers name , my foster mother, Uncles, wives and the name of my camel. I was at cave and Jibril came and held me. I was born in this year in such and such a place and when I was small I told some guys how to lift a stone. Blah blah blah. Muhammads recorded history in hadeeth etc will be many times bigger than the Quran and I do not know how all of this information is going to be part of Allahs message.
The Messengers of Allah be it Muhammad or others did not go and discuss about their childhood , life history and ancestry; they laid out a simple but a powerful message to people and this is repeated again and again in the Quran in relation to many prophets and messengers.
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Dear Leo; The quranist have answer for each and every of your question and that is
"THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT"
Quranist Mike, Iwould like to invite you to the ultimate truth, the reality of the life My religon Islam.
Mike Ok! what are your beliefs? whom do you believe in? what do you believe in?
Quranist Just read this book this is detailed and you will get answer to every thing!
MikeRealy? Who wrote this book??
Quranist Well,ahhhh,ahmmm,.... I don't know, but that is not important!
Mike What? that is not important? are you in your senses? the book you are giving me to read you think is detailed book has no author?
Quranist No, no, you did not understand, God is the author!
Mike Oh! so the book was sent down as it is, written by God?
Quranist hmmmm..... ah....It was actually revealed (wahi) to the prophet of God?
MikeOh! I see, the Prophet? who was he?
Quranist Well it is not important, just read the book it is detailed!
Mike But who was the prophet? I shold know about him, was he trustworthy? was he reliable? should i believe in him? Did he realy got the wahi?
Quranist It is not important, because Quran says he was trustworthy and reliable so if Quran says it, it is.
Mike What kind of argument is that? prophet is reliable because Quran says he is reliable? how can i verify that?
Quranist That is not important.
Mike I have just glanced through, what is this Abu-lahab?
Quranist See that is not important, you have to read the articles of brother Ayman and Layth to understand what is Abu lahab.
Mike But you said the book is detailed it contains every example and event; also who is this Hakeem Luqman?
Quranist It is not important, read brother Ayman and Layth for details....
Mike But you said.....
Quranist That is not important!I have been advised to read Quran.But here I see that Quranist looks very ignorant.
What should I do to study Islam?
Who are these Aynan and Layth?? -
Peace to all,
Keep looking eagle, you will see that it is the God alone /Quranists that are the more objective and truthful, it is the others that are the ignorant ones.
Kurt
Peace
How about this conversation?Do the muslims answer in this way?
Best of luck -
Peace to all,
what way eagle, i was merely responding to your comment that everywhere you look muslims are ignorant, i said that we arent all ignorant, some are, others arent, none of us have the absolute truth, we try to look at things objectively, we try to put things in their proper places, we try to verify things for ourselves, others follow blindly the dogmas of the day.
What do you follow?
Kurt
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Peace to all,
what way eagle, i was merely responding to your comment that everywhere you look muslims are ignorant, i said that we arent all ignorant, some are, others arent, none of us have the absolute truth, we try to look at things objectively, we try to put things in their proper places, we try to verify things for ourselves, others follow blindly the dogmas of the day.
What do you follow?
Kurt
Peace
Thanks for reply.I am also interested in questions raised by Mike.
Can you please answer them for me?
Best of luck -
Peace
Probably I have done something wrong.
What do you mean by ;Luck?
and -
I have been advised to read Quran.But here I see that Quranist looks very ignorant.
What should I do to study Islam?
Who are these Aynan and Layth??That Quranist is hypothetical. Now, look at it in terms of real life.
If you ask a left winger (politically) to describe a hypothetical conversation with a right winger, what will be the response?
If you ask a right winger to describe as above with a left winger, what will be the response?
Will it be a balanced view?
Please be objective, and never pay attention to "brailless" people.
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That Quranist is hypothetical. Now, look at it in terms of real life.
If you ask a left winger (politically) to describe a hypothetical conversation with a right winger, what will be the response?
If you ask a right winger to describe as above with a left winger, what will be the response?
Will it be a balanced view?
Please be objective, and never pay attention to "brailless" people.
Peace
That may be hypothetical conversation.But questions are valid.
Would you please answer those questions for me? I will be thankful. -
rotfl
I can recognise most people through their writing
You are glass, child.
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Peace
If muslims do not answer these questions ,please guide me to some other website where I can get the answers. -
What are your questions Eagle?
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What are your questions Eagle?
peace
These are not my questions.
Did you see Mike's questions in Raja's post?
I want to know their answers from quranists.I do not know why all of you are reluctant to answer them ?
Everyone is trying to avoid them.Now I am more curious about this reluctance.
Best of luck