A Quran related question to Quranists
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rotfl
I can recognise most people through their writing
You are glass, child.
Eagle himself is a hypothetical atheist.
Got banned already? s/he/it's already a guest by the time I read this thread.
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Peace to all,
Eagle 303, I dont think anyone here is reluctant to answer any questions, the questions you want answers from MIke post are a bit biased and silly, and yes, in a way they are unimportant, and we dont have a Quranist platform or talking points memo that we can rattle off in order to answer sincere questions, the point we try to make is that you will only find the answers your looking for if your sincere, to each there own, we can only share our experiences and opinions with each other in order to maybe help each other in areas we may be stuck in. However, since you asked, I will answer Mike as I would answer them, not as some homogenous cult of the Quran some try to make us out to be.
I will call myself Submitter to God instead of Quranist if thats ok with you, and by the way, I pray that God may guide me, but luck has nothing to do with it.
STG - I would like to invite you to the truth, the system of submission to God.
Mike- Ok, what are your beliefs, whom do you believe in, what do you believe in?
STG- We believe there is only one God, the same God that Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, and Mohammad all worshipped and submitted to. God has sent us his message to mankind through his messengers and he has also given us the Quran via inspiration to Mohamad.
Mike- Really, who wrote the book?
STG- It was revealed to Mohammad, the seal of the prophets, through inspiration from God, it was Mohamads close and trusted friends that wrote it down for him, but I have no proof of this, either way, it is not important who wrote it down, its the message thats important.
Mike- So is the book fully detailed?
STG- Yes, if you believe in God would you not also believe that God would send us guidance, if we are to be held accountable by God, and you believe that God will only judge us but with justice, then would it not also be just for God to send us all guidance so that we may attain to his mercy? If you believe this then it wont be hard for you to believe that the Quran is from GOd, and if you believe this then you would believe it is fully detailed as this is exactly what what God tells us in the Quran. It is fully detailed for us to achieve salvation and eternal peace, it is not a blueprint for world domination.
Mike- But who was the prophet, I should know about him, was he trustworthy and reliable, should I believe in him?
STG- Apparently God thought Mohammad was trustworthy and reliable, just as he thought his other messengers before him were, wouldnt God know his servants better than we do? It is not important that you believe in the messengers, it is important that you believe in and obey the message they delivered to us from God, there have been many messengers in the past and Mohammad is the sealof the prophets chosen by God to deliver us his message of mercy.
Mike- What kind of argument is that? The prophet is reliable because the Quran says he is reliable, how can I verify that?
STG- The Quran doesnt say anything, its God that speaks to us through the Quran and also in many other ways, his signs are everywhere. It is Gods message that is reliable, all the prophets of the past were merely humans, they were born and they died, only God is eternal, only God is the truth, after the truth what is left but error.
Mike- I have just glanced through, what is this Abu Lahab?
STG- I dont know, i dont speak arabic, but if you read the articles here and elsewhere you may find the answers your looking for, just try to be open hearted and sincere in your inquiries, dont be blinded with bias for or against the truth, but brothers Lobster,Layth, Arnold Yasin, Tay, sister Samia and many others here are very intelligent people, maybe them or one of us can help you with any questions you may have.
Peace be with you brother.
Kurt
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I'm not going to name any names, but EAGLE303 is a duplicate user name of a member here. The member in question has been warned for breaking other rules in the past.
I just thought I'd let you all know what's going on.
Peace
Peace Zenje, you might want to check out if this other guy, who claims to be Hindu, might be another incarnation of this hypothetical atheist. Check the 'discriminated' thread in this forum.
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Andya Primanda, are you the Muslim Indonesian biologist and evolutionist? Just curious.
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Andya Primanda, are you the Muslim Indonesian biologist and evolutionist? Just curious.
Um... The Muslim, Indonesian, and evolutionist part is correct. I'm not so sure about the biologist part, because I'm not directly involved in biological research at the moment (currently working in a different but related industry)
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Greetings Raj-ah
Quote from Raj-ah on Yesterday at 061646 AM
But he is intrested as every normal human being would be inetrested in the behaviour of the preacher, was this FIRST preacher of the book trustworthy? Why should he believe in that Preacher?Are we not told to look to creation for all of our signs and verifications?
Thereby you will be able to figure out whether the message of the messenger (of any 'messanger' or book) is true or false.
God gives all generations the same chance to see, understand, and verify. Not just those of a certain era.
Salaams Iliza,
Iliza; you are not getting the point or you donot want to get the point.
There are lots of theories about creation and None of them has been scientifically proven including the Quranic theory. So how can we verify through our creation that the message is true? we just can't say because Quran says this therefore it is!
Yes! God gives all the generations equal chance to see! but how? that is the question? -
Who was the person to whome "the Holy Quran " was revealed ?
When was the Holy Quran revealed ?For all you people that sent greetings to prophet Ibrahim everytime you pray.
Please give me the exact dates he was born, where did he live (street address), the hour of his death, who was beside his bed. Same for Moses.
Please if its not much difficult for you tell us the exact number of years from Ibrahim to Muhammad. And since you believe they are related name all the people inbetween, their birthdates, where did they live, whom did they marry, which places where their wifes from etc etc...
If you do this I will answer you about your questions.
And, since all this is about hadiths, please be kind and bring hadiths that explains 28 suras in the quran becouse so far we havent seen them.
You are allowed to invent them (thats what you're good at), and thats the beauty of hadiths. rotfl -
Peace to all,
Eagle 303, I dont think anyone here is reluctant to answer any questions, the questions you want answers from MIke post are a bit biased and silly, and yes, in a way they are unimportant, and we dont have a Quranist platform or talking points memo that we can rattle off in order to answer sincere questions, the point we try to make is that you will only find the answers your looking for if your sincere, to each there own, we can only share our experiences and opinions with each other in order to maybe help each other in areas we may be stuck in. However, since you asked, I will answer Mike as I would answer them, not as some homogenous cult of the Quran some try to make us out to be.
I will call myself Submitter to God instead of Quranist if thats ok with you, and by the way, I pray that God may guide me, but luck has nothing to do with it.
STG - I would like to invite you to the truth, the system of submission to God.
Ok! I am interested to hear.
Mike- Ok, what are your beliefs, whom do you believe in, what do you believe in?
STG- We believe there is only one God, the same God that Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, and Mohammad all worshipped and submitted to. God has sent us his message to mankind through his messengers and he has also given us the Quran via inspiration to Mohamad.
Who said so? that there is ONe GOD? Quran? We again are at ground zero, Why should I believe something which is in Quran? What makes you so sure that words of some person, who is telling you that these are God's words which he is uttering from his mouth are realy God's words. Did God talk to you or brother Ayman or Layth directly? So the person he talked to or revealed to his words, is it not important to know about him?
Was the person realy trust worthy of what he was telling us? That is very basic.Mike- Really, who wrote the book?
STG- It was revealed to Mohammad, the seal of the prophets, through inspiration from God, it was Mohamads close and trusted friends that wrote it down for him, but I have no proof of this, either way, it is not important who wrote it down, its the message thats important.
How can be you so sure about a message of which you have no proof? Message only becomes important if we know who is delivering it, that is very important; No matter whatever you or any other Quranist say.
Again giving us the answer which has become trade mark of Quranists "THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT".Mike- So is the book fully detailed?
STG- Yes, if you believe in God would you not also believe that God would send us guidance, if we are to be held accountable by God, and you believe that God will only judge us but with justice, then would it not also be just for God to send us all guidance so that we may attain to his mercy? If you believe this then it wont be hard for you to believe that the Quran is from GOd, and if you believe this then you would believe it is fully detailed as this is exactly what what God tells us in the Quran. It is fully detailed for us to achieve salvation and eternal peace, it is not a blueprint for world domination.
Quran is book of signs.
Mike- But who was the prophet, I should know about him, was he trustworthy and reliable, should I believe in him?
STG- Apparently God thought Mohammad was trustworthy and reliable, just as he thought his other messengers before him were, wouldnt God know his servants better than we do? It is not important that you believe in the messengers, it is important that you believe in and obey the message they delivered to us from God, there have been many messengers in the past and Mohammad is the sealof the prophets chosen by God to deliver us his message of mercy.
See, Ironsky this is circular argument; because God say's Prophet is trustworthy, therefore he is. That is just pathetic in the case specially with MIKE, he is a non-muslim,
Mike- What kind of argument is that? The prophet is reliable because the Quran says he is reliable, how can I verify that?
STG- The Quran doesnt say anything, its God that speaks to us through the Quran and also in many other ways, his signs are everywhere. It is Gods message that is reliable, all the prophets of the past were merely humans, they were born and they died, only God is eternal, only God is the truth, after the truth what is left but error.
The Quran doesnt say anything
Dear Quranist, where is the answer? GOD speaks to us through Quran? Who says so? How do you know that it is God speaking to us via Quran? who told you? Yes God's message is reliable but how are you sure that Quran is God's message? Is it because Quran says so? what kind of argument is that.Mike- I have just glanced through, what is this Abu Lahab?
STG- I dont know, i dont speak arabic, but if you read the articles here and elsewhere you may find the answers your looking for, just try to be open hearted and sincere in your inquiries, dont be blinded with bias for or against the truth, but brothers Lobster,Layth, Arnold Yasin, Tay, sister Samia and many others here are very intelligent people, maybe them or one of us can help you with any questions you may have.
Peace be with you brother.
Kurt
Please donot mix ARNOLD YASIN with the rest, Arnold talks about Islamic system and not of the indiviual, he talks about unity of Muslims, though I have lot of disagreements with him but looking at his European background that is acceptable.
So the Quranists tells MIKE to read the articles from here and there D D D
Extra Quranic stuff rotflBut you said it fully detailed?
Oh! THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT -
Greetings Raj-ah,
Iliza; you are not getting the point or you donot want to get the point.
Ah, through distorted glasses you are seeing nothing more than a true reflection of yourself...
So how can we verify through our creation that the message is true? we just can't say because Quran says this therefore it is!
Yes! God gives all the generations equal chance to see! but how? that is the question?I've told you how, God's told you how through creation. The laws that God has laid down govern all of creation. Once you are able to see this through recognition of the relationship between the microcosm and the macrocosm, and the inner and the outer, your glasses are clean! Then look again, what do you see?
NB Please note that my name is spelled 'I-L-i-s-a', as opposed to your distorted view and propogation of 'I-l-i-z-a'.
peace
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Salaams Iliza,
Iliza; you are not getting the point or you donot want to get the point.
There are lots of theories about creation and None of them has been scientifically proven including the Quranic theory. So how can we verify through our creation that the message is true? we just can't say because Quran says this therefore it is!
Yes! God gives all the generations equal chance to see! but how? that is the question?Bro Rajah,
Are you HONESTLY saying we need outside religious sources to prove the quran? Ilisa gets the point perfectly. YOU don't get the point or do not want to get the point, and the point is that historical information that you personally want (that is not in the quran) is not important for our guidance. Why do you mix history and the deen? My history book is a very good source of Islamic history; does that mean I should take it as an extra source of religious guidance/law? No. This is what we mean by "extra-quranic sources" So honestly, stop mocking, because you are ignorantly mocking and only making a fool of yourself.
Secondly, it is not me or anyone else that is saying the quran is clearly explained/an explanation for all things/cites every example/asks to not follow anything as religious guidance after it. It's THE QURAN that is saying clearly explained/an explanation for all things/cites every example/asks to not follow anything as religious guidance after it. Answer to the quran.
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Greetings Raj-ah,
Quote from Raj-ah on Today at 031245 AM
Iliza; you are not getting the point or you donot want to get the point.Ah, through distorted glasses you are seeing nothing more than a true reflection of yourself...
Quote
So how can we verify through our creation that the message is true? we just can't say because Quran says this therefore it is!
Yes! God gives all the generations equal chance to see! but how? that is the question?I've told you how, God's told you how through creation. The laws that God has laid down govern all of creation. Once you are able to see this through recognition of the relationship between the microcosm and the macrocosm, and the inner and the outer, your glasses are clean! Then look again, what do you see?
NB Please note that my name is spelled 'I-L-i-s-a', as opposed to your distorted view and propogation of 'I-l-i-z-a'.
ILiesa You are only endorsing the point of view of "Lobster", then what is the need of Quran at the first place? these laws were there before Quran, and people studied them, and pondered upon creation. You are no where near to what is meant to be said.
It may have begun with Democritus in the 5th century B.C. or with Pythagoras and is a philosophical conception that runs through Socrates, and Plato all the way to the Renaissance. So ILiesa next time please take care and think twice before you post.NBplease note i don't wear glasses. as opposed to your distorted view and propogation.
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ILiesa You are only endorsing the point of view of "Lobster
I am perfectly capable of having my own view, thank you.
You are no where near to what is meant to be said.
I don't understand what you're saying here. Please explain.
ILiesa...
NBplease note i don't wear glasses. as opposed to your distorted view and propogation.
The point about glasses was a metaphor. I was not using the word in a literal sense. However, you may needing some. I'd suggest setting up an appointment with your neighborhood optometrist.
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Navid
Bro Rajah,
Are you HONESTLY saying we need outside religious sources to prove the quran? Ilisa gets the point perfectly. YOU don't get the point or do not want to get the point, and the point is that historical information that you personally want (that is not in the quran) is not important for our guidance. Why do you mix history and the deen?
dear, Navid, Just answer me one question and I am all yours
Do you understand what is Deen?? I mean to say a person who talks about DEEN and then tells me don't mix history with it is Quite amazing?
I think you should refer to articles of ARNOLD YASEEN for that purpose, since he is a member of this site
Or better to Books of GHulam AHMED PERVAIZ (Pakistani) who explain in detail what a DEEN is?
For example in my discussion with Arnold he agreed that it is very important to know HOW DID THE PROPHET IMPLEMENTED DEEN IN THE FIRST ISLAMIC STATE.
Offcourse for that you have to first accept that Deen is a System that is to be implemented in our lives.
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ILisa
The point about glasses was a metaphor. I was not using the word in a literal sense. However, you may needing some. I'd suggest setting up an appointment with your neighborhood optometrist.
This Ayat is Metaphor that is Literal another Quranist Classic asides from "THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT"
Metaphor / Literal D DWhat about having a meeting with YOU instead, I hope we will enjoy our sitting