SunDown Or Last Sun's Rays Out?
-
peace
well i say night starts when it's complete darkness.
2187 ...And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night...it doesn't say 'until sunrise', so if you say night starts at sunset and you eat between sunset and complete darkness then why not do the same in the morning, why not eat between dawn and sunrise... ah yes, because it says not to, apparently only full darkness is time to eat and drink.
but hey, that's just me
-
Peace,
Respectfully.New information has arrived to my attention
I found this
When do you break the ?fast??
?You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until Night?? (2187)
GOD tells His people that they are to fast until the ?Night??Yet the Muslims masses insist on blatantly disobeying His command by breaking their fast at ?Sunset?!.
On this link
http//free-minds.org/articles/politics/lose.htm
Now, pay very close and careful attention to what else i read on this link
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/quranic.htmI read this
A- The Shortest Way
2187, "Permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the night of fasting...You may eat and drink until the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread at dawn. Then, you shall fast until the night..."
God defines specifically here when daytime starts. The starting point of daytime is when the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread (of darkness) at dawn. Similarly, night starts when the black thread (of darkness) becomes distinguishable from the white thread at sunset. Using the same logic, daytime ends when with the last white thread (of lightness) at dusk. Similarly, night ends with the last black thread (of darkness) at sunrise.
That's how we shall fast from dawn to sunset as it is commanded in 2187 above, since night starts at sunset.
In conclusion, daytime starts at dawn and stops at dusk; while night starts at sunset and ends at sunrise.
Am i missing something here?
I appreciate your fast and speedy responses.
There's something here i don't get do we break the fast at sunset or complete night?Thank you.
Peace. -
Alexander the Great ?Which is older day or night??
Indian Brahmin "Day is older, by one day at least."
After which Alexander was not satisfied with the above answer...
Indian Brahmin "Strange questions get strange answers."
We can have a standard to determine dawn or beginning of the day...
http//farm3.static.flickr.com/2078/2173968911_146fb1e482.jpg
We can have a standard to determine sunset or beginning of the night...
http//www.solarviews.com/browse/earth/sunset.jpg
What people call dusk or "how dark is night" is a matter of degree which it gets darker every minute during that early part of the night after sunset.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bpowj_VPSs
Peace
-
Peace Alen,
God defines specifically here when daytime starts. The starting point of daytime is when the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread (of darkness) at dawn. Similarly, night starts when the black thread (of darkness) becomes distinguishable from the white thread at sunset. Using the same logic, daytime ends when with the last white thread (of lightness) at dusk. Similarly, night ends with the last black thread (of darkness) at sunrise.
That's how we shall fast from dawn to sunset as it is commanded in 2187 above, since night starts at sunset.
In conclusion, daytime starts at dawn and stops at dusk; while night starts at sunset and ends at sunrise.
Am i missing something here?
I appreciate your fast and speedy responses.
There's something here i don't get do we break the fast at sunset or complete night?Although the article that you quoted over complicates things, it is correct in that night starts at sunset.
To put it in simple terms, the god tells us that he merges night into daylight and daylight into night. It is impossible to merge night into daylight unless night starts at sunset.
Moreover, we are told in the great reading that the specific part of the night that is completely dark is called "ghasak al-layl" and not just "layl". If "layl" is by definition completely dark then the word "ghasak" would be redundant.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace,
Respectfully.Thank you, brother ayman.
Today is August, 19th and
the DAWN was at 0401,
the SUNRISE was at 0606,
the SUNSET will be, God willing, at 2004 and
the DUSK will be, God willing, 2155.Peace.
Peace everyone;
May God increase his blessing on all the believers who will witness the coming of Ramadan.Let me share with you how I concluded the timing of fasting and breakfasting, using "if-and-then" method.
If God ordered the believers to eat and drink at night time;
And if God defined the end of night by the Dawn time;
And if dawn time is two hours before sunrise;
and if such time (between dawn and sunrise) considered day and not night time;
And if the time between sunset and dusk is similar to the time between dawn and sunrise, in the length of time (2 hours) and the quantity of light.
Then the time between sunset and dusk is defined by God as daytime and NOT a NIGHT TIME;
And if God?s order is to fast to night time;
Then I should fast until day time is over, which is dusk time.
Please let me know where did I make a mistake in the above reasoning; as you all know, if we do not use our brain to reason and understand God's orders, we are like animals and even worse.
Peace -
Please let me know where did I make a mistake in the above reasoning;
The mistake comes from assuming that there are only 2 options - either it is 100% day, or it is 100% night. The way I understand it is that there are 3 options - it is 100% day, it is 100% night, or it is simultaneously both day and night.
I'll illustrate this with a simple day, beginning at dawn.
When the white thread of dawn becomes visible a few hours before sunrise, day has begun. At this point (during dawn), night has not yet ended, so it is simultaneously both day and night.
Once the sun rises, night ends and it is now 100% day.
In the evening, as soon as the sun sets, night begins. However, as the light is still visible, day has not yet ended (it is now dusk). It is simultaneously both day and night.
A few hours later, the white thread is no longer visible, and day ends. It is now 100% night.
Now, on to the subject of fasting. We are told we should fast from the beginning of day. This is at the start of dawn, when the first white thread of light is visible a few hours before sunrise. We then continue to fast until the night starts. As I described above, night starts as soon as the sun sets. Even though day has not yet ended, we can now end our fast because night has started.
So, we fast from dawn until sunset - from the start of day until the start of night.
-
The mistake comes from assuming that there are only 2 options - either it is 100% day, or it is 100% night. The way I understand it is that there are 3 options - it is 100% day, it is 100% night, or it is simultaneously both day and night.
I'll illustrate this with a simple day, beginning at dawn.
When the white thread of dawn becomes visible a few hours before sunrise, day has begun. At this point (during dawn), night has not yet ended, so it is simultaneously both day and night.
Once the sun rises, night ends and it is now 100% day.
In the evening, as soon as the sun sets, night begins. However, as the light is still visible, day has not yet ended (it is now dusk). It is simultaneously both day and night.
A few hours later, the white thread is no longer visible, and day ends. It is now 100% night.
Now, on to the subject of fasting. We are told we should fast from the beginning of day. This is at the start of dawn, when the first white thread of light is visible a few hours before sunrise. We then continue to fast until the night starts. As I described above, night starts as soon as the sun sets. Even though day has not yet ended, we can now end our fast because night has started.
So, we fast from dawn until sunset - from the start of day until the start of night.
Peace
Your reasoing is correct, which I used to follow untill last Ramadan; but I thought to reask the question in order to get other opinions.
So, God asked us to Fast untill the start of the night, and not when we are in night time? because if yes, then breakfasting at sunset is true.
Peace -
Peace;
Have questions;When the white thread of dawn becomes visible a few hours before sunrise, day has begun. At this point (during dawn), night has not yet ended, so it is simultaneously both day and night.
And that is when we start fasting, at the start of day.
Please pay a close attention
at the start is a translation for "HATA " (refer to verse 2-187); please note that God used the Word Hata. Now when you look at the word that is used when mentioning the time to breakfast is "ELA Elial". WE know HATA is the begining of the event, how about ELA?
Why God did not say "HATA Elial", which would mean the begining of Night?
Does Ela means the begining or when the event is complete?Please, when answering refer to Arabic Grammer.
PeaceOnce the sun rises, night ends and it is now 100% day.
In the evening, as soon as the sun sets, night begins. However, as the light is still visible, day has not yet ended (it is now dusk). It is simultaneously both day and night.
A few hours later, the white thread is no longer visible, and day ends. It is now 100% night.
Now, on to the subject of fasting. We are told we should fast from the beginning of day. This is at the start of dawn, when the first white thread of light is visible a few hours before sunrise. We then continue to fast until the night starts. As I described above, night starts as soon as the sun sets. Even though day has not yet ended, we can now end our fast because night has started.
So, we fast from dawn until sunset - from the start of day until the start of night.
-
Peace
That is what I intended to post; sorry for the extra part (it was a quote drivlhead)Peace;
Have questions;And that is when we start fasting, at the start of day.
Please pay a close attention
at the start is a translation for "HATA " (refer to verse 2-187); please note that God used the Word Hata. Now when you look at the word that is used when mentioning the time to breakfast is "ELA Elial". WE know HATA is the begining of the event, how about ELA?
Why God did not say "HATA Elial", which would mean the begining of Night?
Does Ela means the begining or when the event is complete?Please, when answering refer to Arabic Grammer.
Peace -
Peace all,
And if dawn time is two hours before sunrise;
Depends on location; in Mecca it?s about 22 minutes.
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.html
and if such time (between dawn and sunrise) considered day and not night time;
And if the time between sunset and dusk is similar to the time between dawn and sunrise, in the length of time (2 hours) and the quantity of light.
Then the time between sunset and dusk is defined by God as daytime and NOT a NIGHT TIME;
And if God?s order is to fast to night time;
Then I should fast until day time is over, which is dusk time.
Please let me know where did I make a mistake in the above reasoning;
These are not same;
Sunset (sun below horizon) to Dusk or after glow how dark is night
Dawn (white thread) to Sunrise (sun is fully visible above horizon)
http//blogs.trb.com/news/weather/weblog/wgnweather/111006_sunrise.jpg
Once the sun rises, night ends and it is now 100% day.
In the evening, as soon as the sun sets, night begins. However, as the light is still visible, day has not yet ended (it is now dusk). It is simultaneously both day and night.
A few hours later, the white thread is no longer visible, and day ends. It is now 100% night.
There is no white thread after sunset only at sunrise. You can easily verify this.
There is only day (white thread) and night after sunset; no in between or dusk which is our word for how dark is night.
So, we fast from dawn until sunset - from the start of day until the start of night.
That is correct.
Peace
-
Peace all,
Depends on location; in Mecca it?s about 22 minutes.
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.html
These are not same;
Sunset (sun below horizon) to Dusk or after glow how dark is night
Dawn (white thread) to Sunrise (sun is fully visible above horizon)
[
There is no white thread after sunset only at sunrise. You can easily verify this.
There is only day (white thread) and night after sunset; no in between or dusk which is our word for how dark is night.
That is correct.
Peace
Peace
Please, what is the different between the red arabic two words (part of 2-187)the first (Hata) is used to refer to the begining of Dawn
The Second (Ela) is used to refer to__?__ of Night.If you refer to Quran, you will know the different.
Peace -
Peace
Please, what is the different between the red arabic two words (part of 2-187)the first (Hata) is used to refer to the begining of Dawn
The Second (Ela) is used to refer to__?__ of Night.If you refer to Quran, you will know the different.
PeaceThe words appear 100s of times in Quran. This is like asking what's the difference between until and to.
eat until (hatta) start of DAY then fast to (ila) the NIGHT.
What exactly is your point?
If it's still about dusk or how dark is the night then which dusk...
Civil dusk sun is 6 degrees below the horizon.
Nautical dusk sun is 12 degrees below the horizon.
Astronomical dusk sun is 18 degrees below the horizon.
No such thing as dusk in Quran only DAY (exactly at white thread) and NIGHT exactly when the Sun falls below the horizon.
Peace
-
The words appear 100s of times in Quran. This is like asking what's the difference between until and to.
eat until (hatta) start of DAY then fast to (ila) the NIGHT.
Peace,
That is what I'm refering to.Does "TO Night time" means "the Start of Night Time", as if we would use "Until Night Time"?
Peace
-
Peace belalhammad,
Does "TO Night time" means "the Start of Night Time", as if we would use "Until Night Time"?
Yes, start of the night, as far as the night, until/till the night, up to the night.
Imagine a line (sunset) boundary reached. It?s the same as ila Allahi (to God) or ila alssalati (to the prayer) or ila almarafiqi (to the elbows) ? once there that?s it.
3346 WadaAAiyan ila Allahi bi-ithnihi wasirajan muneeran
And calling to God with His permission/pardon and a lamp luminous/giving light.Peace
-
Peace belalhammad,
Yes, start of the night, as far as the night, until/till the night, up to the night.
Imagine a line (sunset) boundary reached. It?s the same as ila Allahi (to God) or ila alssalati (to the prayer) or ila almarafiqi (to the elbows) ? once there that?s it.
3346 WadaAAiyan ila Allahi bi-ithnihi wasirajan muneeran
And calling to God with His permission/pardon and a lamp luminous/giving light.Peace
I will use your reasoning; unless I find more proofs, I will stick with it.
Happy Rammadan
-
Salaamun Aleikom Brothers and sisters in faith,
There seems to many enterpretations of the word night. If you ask one person when night is they might say; when it is dark outside. Then you may proceed to ask another person and they may say; night is at sunset, however in order for us to know what Allah means by night as we all know the answer is in his scripture.... lets take a look to see how he uses this word. There are two imoprtant verses concering this issue.
2187 - It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn then you shall complete the fast until night and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
Clearly it says to fast until night not sunset, eventhough some have translated it and used the word sunset for the arabic word LAYL.
The following verse gives us a clear visual description of the sky at the time of NIGHT/LAYL.
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear."
This indicates that night is when you can see planets this occurs about 30 - 40 minutes after sunset
"...30 - 40 after sunset the sky becomes dark enough that the planets and bright stars become visible. The planets can be recognized by their brightness and position in the sky. Venus is the brightest planet and will be easily seen in the west as the sky becomes dark. Jupiter is the second brightest planet and will become visible in the eastern sky" http//www.mcpstars.org/node/13
The sky is still too bright to see any planets with the bare eye at sunset.
My conclusion is as follows ; When we can see planets/stars in the sky, it is a sign that we can break fast.
