SunDown Or Last Sun's Rays Out?
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Salaam,
The following verse gives us a clear visual description of the sky at the time of NIGHT/LAYL.
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear."
This indicates that night is when you can see planets this occurs about 30 - 40 minutes after sunset
That only indicates we can see planets as the night darkens.
Falamma janna AAalayhi allaylu raa kawkaban qala hatha rabbee falamma afala qala la ohibbu al-afileena
676 So when the night darkened on him, he saw a star/planet, he said "That (is) my lord." So when it set/darkened, he said "I do not like the setting/disappearing."
327 You make the night enter/penetrate in the daytime, and You make the daytime enter/penetrate in the night...
Clear as "night and day" of crossing a threshold at sunset and dawn.
Also read prior post by Ayman...
To put it in simple terms, the god tells us that he merges night into daylight and daylight into night. It is impossible to merge night into daylight unless night starts at sunset.
Moreover, we are told in the great reading that the specific part of the night that is completely dark is called "ghasak al-layl" and not just "layl". If "layl" is by definition completely dark then the word "ghasak" would be redundant.
Peace,
Ayman
Aqimi alssalata lidulooki alshshamsi ila ghasaqi allayli waqur-ana alfajri inna qur-ana alfajri kana mashhoodan
1778 Start/keep up the prayers to the sun's nearing setting to the night's darkness, and the dawn's Quran, that the dawn's Quran was/is being witnessed.Peace
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Salaamun Aleikom Brothers and sisters in faith,
There seems to many enterpretations of the word night. If you ask one person when night is they might say; when it is dark outside. Then you may proceed to ask another person and they may say; night is at sunset, however in order for us to know what Allah means by night as we all know the answer is in his scripture.... lets take a look to see how he uses this word. There are two imoprtant verses concering this issue.
2187 - It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn then you shall complete the fast until night and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God's boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
Clearly it says to fast until night not sunset, eventhough some have translated it and used the word sunset for the arabic word LAYL.
The following verse gives us a clear visual description of the sky at the time of NIGHT/LAYL.
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear."
This indicates that night is when you can see planets this occurs about 30 - 40 minutes after sunset
"...30 - 40 after sunset the sky becomes dark enough that the planets and bright stars become visible. The planets can be recognized by their brightness and position in the sky. Venus is the brightest planet and will be easily seen in the west as the sky becomes dark. Jupiter is the second brightest planet and will become visible in the eastern sky" http//www.mcpstars.org/node/13
The sky is still too bright to see any planets with the bare eye at sunset.
My conclusion is as follows ; When we can see planets/stars in the sky, it is a sign that we can break fast.
perfect! bravo
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2-187,,,,, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, ,,
In my quest for finding exact meanings of God's night (layal) , i found the following
36-37 And a sign for them is the night, We remove the daylight from it, whereupon they are in darkness
79-29 He made its night dark, and brightened its morn.
God's night is DARK and does not contain day light.
I could find sun set described in following ayahs by the words, GHOROUB- UL -SHAMS and or daluk-ul- shams
17-78 You shall hold the assembly at the sun's setting until the darkness of the night.(Isha prayer), and the Quran at dawn; the Quran at dawn has been witnessed
18-86 When he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast ocean, and found people there. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them."
50-39 Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset
When God wanted to use sunset, he used a clear unimbigous word to describe it in Quran,and had he wanted us to break fast at sunset, he would have definitely used the term Ghorub ul shams.
Rest is up to you to perceive and decide,,,?
peace
siki . -
Peace,
We know day starts exactly at dawn (white thread);
what time should we set the standard for when the night begins and whose eyesight do we use?1778 Perform AsSalat from mid-day till the darkness of the night...
Why till the "darkness of the night" and not till the night? Is the night becoming darker?
20130 So bear patiently what they say, and glorify the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during some of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day, that you may become pleased with the reward which Allah shall give you.
327 You make the night enter in the daytime, and You make the daytime enter in the night.
When does this happen if not exactly at dawn and sunset?
911-3
And by the sun and its brightness;
And by the moon as it follows it (the sun);
And by the night as it conceals it (the sun);The clearest definition of sunset....
http//i34.tinypic.com/2qun98y.jpg
Peace
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I think, so far,
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear."
is the best argument that night does not begin at sun set.
nonetheless,
911-3
And by the sun and its brightness;
And by the moon as it follows it (the sun);
And by the night as it conceals it (the sun);is not bad as an argument that night begins at sun set....
??? ??? ???
so when we have to break fast? eat Other opinions?
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A night could be dark, or be relatively less dark, depends upon the phase of moon, but it does not contain the daylight in it(sunlight) , either direct or through refraction due to atmosphere even when the sun is a few degrees below the horizon . A night without moon will probably be called a dark night ,
In my opinion,the best argument against breaking fast at sun set is ,
"Had he wanted us to break fast at sun set, he would have definitely used the precise words depicting a very precise parameter, which is Ghoroub ul shams".
peace
siki
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Peace,
Respectfully.Is it possible thatw e have been missing this the night begins at sunset but it is FULLY NIGHT at the dusk?
After all, the night, just like a day, must have a start, right?
I've been fasting from dawn untill sunset but i always had this in my mind if the day begins at dawn and it is fully day at sunrise, then, by that logic, night will also begin at sunset but be fully night at the dusk, am i correct?Beginning of the night is not night, correct?
Night is when night is, right?Your responses have given me plenty of proofs, thanks and keep 'em coming.
God bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
Today I was outside at dawn (exactly 604 am in my area) it was getting light.
A few minutes later at 610 am I was looking at stars that were clearly visible in the sky.
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Peace everyone,
I think, so far,
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said "I do not like those that disappear."
is the best argument that night does not begin at sun set.
nonetheless,
911-3
And by the sun and its brightness;
And by the moon as it follows it (the sun);
And by the night as it conceals it (the sun);is not bad as an argument that night begins at sun set....
??? ??? ???
so when we have to break fast? eat Other opinions?
My early dawn star gazing excursion this morning led me to investigate this further.
Civil twilight begins in the morning when the center of the Sun is less than 6? below the horizon, and ends at sunrise.
Evening civil twilight begins at sunset and ends when the center of the Sun is more than 6? below the horizon.
The brightest stars appear during civil twilight, as well as planets, such as Venus which has long been known as the 'morning star' or 'evening star'.
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Peace everyone,
My early dawn star gazing excursion this morning led me to investigate this further.
Civil twilight begins in the morning when the center of the Sun is less than 6? below the horizon, and ends at sunrise.
Evening civil twilight begins at sunset and ends when the center of the Sun is more than 6? below the horizon.
The brightest stars appear during civil twilight, as well as planets, such as Venus which has long been known as the 'morning star' or 'evening star'.
3190 Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of UNDERSTANDING,-
God bless you.
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Salaamun all,
IMHO, sun has nothing to do with fasting as Allah has not used "Shams" in any ways in regards to fasting.
The word used is "Layl" that clearly means "Night". If we have to break our fast at sunset, other words might has used like "Ishaan" means "Evening" or "Ghuroob AlShams" means "Sunset".
But Allah used night which means darkness. Day, Night are opposite to each other. It can be seen or understand very easily by light and dark. But the parts between them while changing from day to night (Ishaan) are something else...
Regards,
mmKhan -
There is no contradiction between this aayah and the fact that the fast is broken after the sun sets, because night begins when the sun sets. The beginning of the night is sunset, and the end of the night is when dawn comes
1- What are the hours decreed for fasting?
The Quran outlines the fasting hours in the following verse
"You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until the 'layl' (night)." 2187
From these words, abstaining from food and drink should start at the first thread of light at dawn (between an hour and 2 hours before sunrise, depending on the time of year), and maintained till night.
FIRST
Some have disputed regarding the exact time as to when 'night' actually starts? Does it start at sunset? or does the night start when all light has dissappeared from the sky?
As usual, and in accordance with God's promise (1889), the Quran offers explanations to all matters that concern our religion.
As we shall see, the definition of "LAYL" (night) in the Quran is from sunset to sunrise, hence the time after sunset and when there is still light in the sky is part of the night. Also the definition of "NAHAR" (day) is from sunrise to sunset.
This is made clear in the following verse
"He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the LAYL (night) over the NAHAR (day) and He rolls the NAHAR over the LAYL." 395
From this glorious verse we are told that the night and day are rolled into one another. This statement has very important significance on the definition of night and day (Layl and Nahar). This ayat tells us that part of the night (when the day is rolled into it) is actually lit (just after sunset) and that part of the day is still dark (just after sunrise). Consequently to say that night only starts when it is totally dark is not in agreement with Quranic truth.
The relevance of this with regards to the hours of fasting, and since the night starts at sunset, is that we should break our fasting at sunset.
SECOND
But the issue of when does the night start is not the only point of dispute here. Some have argued that we should break fasting when it is totally dark and not when the night starts (sunset). However once again, this is not in agreement with the Quranic command.
To demonstrate the correct meaning, consider the following sentence
A father tells his son "Drive on the left right on your journey through UK but when you get to France drive on the right."
What does this mean? does it mean that the son should start driving on the right AS SOON as he gets to France? or, when he has been in France for a while?
Obviously it means as soon as, it does NOT mean "after a while".
It is also like saying , "I started swimming when I got to the sea" .... this does not mean that I walked on the water for while then started swimming later inside the sea !!!
Thus when God says "maintain your fasting till night" then God means to the beginning of night and not a quarter or half way through.
If God wanted to say break your fasting when it is totally dark he would have said just that, God is never short of words
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Brother Afridi Salaaman,
FIRST
Some have disputed regarding the exact time as to when 'night' actually starts? Does it start at sunset? or does the night start when all light has dissappeared from the sky?
As usual, and in accordance with God's promise (1889), the Quran offers explanations to all matters that concern our religion.
As we shall see, the definition of "LAYL" (night) in the Quran is from sunset to sunrise, hence the time after sunset and when there is still light in the sky is part of the night. Also the definition of "NAHAR" (day) is from sunrise to sunset.
This is made clear in the following verse
"He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the LAYL (night) over the NAHAR (day) and He rolls the NAHAR over the LAYL." 395
From this glorious verse we are told that the night and day are rolled into one another. This statement has very important significance on the definition of night and day (Layl and Nahar). This ayat tells us that part of the night (when the day is rolled into it) is actually lit (just after sunset) and that part of the day is still dark (just after sunrise). Consequently to say that night only starts when it is totally dark is not in agreement with Quranic truth.
The relevance of this with regards to the hours of fasting, and since the night starts at sunset, is that we should break our fasting at sunset.
I don't understand your point here. Its simply your own interpretation brother. It has nothing to do the aayat quoted by you. Please try to understand what you wrote.
SECOND
But the issue of when does the night start is not the only point of dispute here. Some have argued that we should break fasting when it is totally dark and not when the night starts (sunset). However once again, this is not in agreement with the Quranic command.
Yes, my stand is also the same. Night does mean totally dark. And yes, it is 100% Quranic.
11114 And be constant in praying at the beginning and the end of the day, as well as during the early watches of the night for, verily, good deeds drive away evil deeds this is a reminder to all who bear in mind.
Waaqimi alssalata tarafayi alnnahari wazulafan mina allayli inna alhasanati yuthhibna alssayyiati thalika thikra lilththakireena
(11114)
What means "Zulafam minal Layl" in this verse. And what is it refering to?
It is refering to Salaat alIshaan that we perform at sunset which is not Layl but Zulafam minal Layl.
To demonstrate the correct meaning, consider the following sentence
A father tells his son "Drive on the left right on your journey through UK but when you get to France drive on the right."
What does this mean? does it mean that the son should start driving on the right AS SOON as he gets to France? or, when he has been in France for a while?
Obviously it means as soon as, it does NOT mean "after a while".
It is also like saying , "I started swimming when I got to the sea" .... this does not mean that I walked on the water for while then started swimming later inside the sea !!!
Examples? I was suppose to look for the Truth, the aayaats. If you heard examples of idol worshipers (Mushrikeen), you will be shocked brother. They got lot more better examples than these, which may shake your stand.
Thus when God says "maintain your fasting till night" then God means to the beginning of night and not a quarter or half way through.
This is not Quraanic brother. You are deriving out that meaning from your own examples.
If God wanted to say break your fasting when it is totally dark he would have said just that, God is never short of words
True, please refer the verse 11114 and also a clear meaning of Layl in 3637
3637 And they have a sign in the night We withdraw from it the day - and lo! they are in darkness.
Waayatun lahumu allaylu naslakhu minhu alnnahara faitha hum muthlimoona
Please read carefully
Day is out - Night starts
Until Day is available - It is not nightMay Allah guide us all towards His path.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Peace,
Respectfully.I thought fasting should be broken at the sunset but now i'm convinced, unless proofs emerge to show otherwise, that fasting is stopped at NIGHT. Night begins when it is fully night outside. God willing.
Check this out
8416 So I do swear by the redness of dusk.
8417 And the night and what it is driven on.These two verses have put some more light into my investigation.
Thank God for guiding me.
God bless you.
Peace. -
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peace all,
From my studies so far
Quranic day is daytime. Quranic night is both morning and evening twilights and pitch black night.wakas
salamGhoroub ul shams is a marker, God's book is very precise, If the night starts at sun set , why didnt He use it ? Moreover , he precisely explains the start parameter leaving no confusion ,because had he said it "during the day/or daybreak" , people would be going through the debates that weather the day starts at dawn or sunrise.
For me it is no confusion, he says from dawnand then the Quran properly explains THE DAWN. And then it is till night, which has to be the Dusk , not sun set, because sun set is Ghorobul shams, absolutely no confusion.
peace
siki
