Peaceful dear brothers and sisters... 4719 >> WTF?! http//assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/mac-pro-io-ports.jpg http//www.apogeedigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/mac-pro.jpg How does this apply to our understanding of the holy quran-al-kareem? Any thoughts or reflections? Lets have some of this! eat

peace, From memory, I cannot recall any mods/admin deleting or discussing deletion of any of Natu's posts. I do recall posts being lost (including my own) a few times though. There is a simple fix. If they were indeed deleted due to content, simply re-post and we can all see if there is a big bad board conspiracy against Natu. Secondly, baseless accusations are just that, baseless.

Peace be upon your heart FJ, Remember my friend, Devotion on the path is the first condition. THE END IS ALWAYS PRESENT IN THE BEGINNING. Persist in your devotion and it will be GIVEN. The real audio files are all downloadable. I used a free software called Switch to change them to mp3 format. The text documents are also very rich. HOWAL AZZIZ OL HADI peace,

Peace Phoenix, Let,s see if we can make some sense of this .as i understand i will touch on different notes that we can elaborate on them later! True love is achieved through surrender! True love belongs to the Higher SELF. Higher self is ALIVE, PASSIONATE and in LOVE! Higher SELF is the breath of GOD blown into this creature called human. Each human consists of two parts which generate his/ her consciousness. The higher self is the source of this awareness, love and joy and oneness with all. This light of awarness and love is not our direct experience yet! We experience that after that light has passed through the coloured glasses of the ego and forms the concept of I , me and mine versus others! When the glasses become too dense, no light can come through and the love of ego becomes a pure emotion based on desires. This love is the other side of the axis of hate. It belongs to the world of duality of ego. LOVE is then that emotion which expresses MY attraction. Hate is that emtion which expresses MY repulsion. Pleasure is that emotion that expresses the fulfilling of MY needs. And suffering is that emotion that expresses the vacancy of MY needs. So everything exists within an frame of identification generated by our mind. This identification is done through a sense of separation So Adam becomes fearful of DEATH and desires eternal life ( First step of ego-formation). I am and I am separate and I am not secure and I eat the fruit of the world to find that security And the Higher SELF falls to his SELFISHNESS. He becomes hypnotized and falls in sleep and ego has risen. His true Love becomes sexual desire. He wants to repress it and give them a spiritual covering (leaves of trees of haven). But that is fake! Just a ritual he needs to listen to the words of his LORD to retain the state of the HIGHER SELF again. So in spiritual practices we start with purification. We start with cleaning the glasses of ego so that some light can come through. There will come a moment when human being becomes aware of both of these presences within himself. They live side by side. Killing the ego is the next step.the greater Jihad. So Abraham was a purified man of GOD, but he still had two things which were his own belongings. His love for his principles and his love for his son. The only two things that gives Abraham a sense of identification. These are MY principle and this is My son. Abraham is intuited to give them both up. Abraham surrenders and offers his will up. And higher SELF is retained. I talked too much! We will continue later. peace,

Thanks sooooooooooooooooooooooo much for your kinds words people! jedi The poll's been updated.

Peace Nadeem. I think you do understand my point of view very well, its just that I would say that there is no proof of more than one God - which can be said to be becuase there are no other gods to have any proof for their existence. Hello Natu, Basically what you are saying is this Without god nothing would exist, therefore since something does exist there has to be atleast one god. However, there exists no proof of more than one god. So to conclude More than or less than god is false, whilst one god is logical. Do I understand you properly? Nadeem

Peace be upon you Joe Betik, the main issue is The Metaphysical (ghaib). Yes, I agree with your post, especially the above statement. We are getting closer and closer to the truth of this message. We must not let up on the studying so we can effectively present this message to others in a way that is easy to understand.

Peace, Long time I didn't hear from Natu. Does anybody know where he is? Abdelilah

Map on the other hand shows you where the hills and valleys are. But how you decide to travel to these destinations is completely up to you. You could take the route that map shows you or you could strike out on your own and find your own route and in the process of doing so "discover" a new "destination" or perhaps or a better route that is suited to you... But thats just it, the map does show you everything. It doesn't show you a specific route. It gives all the possible routes and even shows where there are no roads. I'm not talking about a map that with a line and x marks the spot. I'm talking about a regular map. You can figure out where you are, where you want to go and a variety of ways to get there. Peace

Thanks truth!

Peace be upon you, Ancient cultures believed that the solstices, the winter and summer solstice, were times when your spirit was most receptive, so it was a time of programming the spirit. If you are unaware of this and just going about your day and night wathcing reality TV, arguing, drinking and smoking, etc then that is what will be programmed into your spirit. It seems to me that would be a real trial. I offer that just for thought.

Peace be upon you Natu, I still have a question though. God says we can call him by any name we wish. What about if I call him "Murphy"? Since thats a human's name isn't it. What names could we call him other than those attributes given to him in the reading? Excellent question, and the answer is that we do not call the God by "names" but by DESCRIPTIONS/ATTRIBUTES, the BEST descriptions/attributes. The Most High, The ALL Knowing, The Most Merciful, etc. When we make up names for the God, we are off the path. The God is above "names", above defining by words. Even the attributes cannot encompass him, but that is the closet we can get on this level. This low level of names is where there are DEFINITIONS, which seperate the WHOLE into parts.

Salaamun Alaik Bro. Kyle, Congratulations on your new posting for new position. ) May Allah keep you kool even on this position ) But still All praises be to Allah. Best regards, MMKhan

1885 (free-minds numbering) So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good." How is this? Salaam, I agree with Turth's post and to add to it The issue is in not carefully reading to understand the meaning not with the translation or if you like every other translation that has been posted here, or for that matter the Arabic. If you carefully read, the verse says, ...he found it setting at a boiling lake... The Quran is faithfully and truthfully reporting what this person found, how it looked to him. It does not say that God says that sun sets in water etc. This is what it looked to the person. In fact considering this a long time ago, he might have very well thought that sun sets in water, God knows. Do you see the difference? Each word of the Quran is chosen with absolute precision. Peace Now I'm confused. I thought the Qur'an was the word of Allah. Why should Allah put in his book the report of a man, who was not even a prophet? Why did not Allah say explicitly that the earth revolves around the sun, which we know to be the truth? After all, the Qur'an is Allah's word and Allah's word is the truth. Salaam Thanks for your reply. Quran is indeed the word of God. Similar to your question, why should God put quotes from the Pharoah in the Quran? For that matter there are many many people quoted or paraphrased in the Quran, why do that? To first order, the answer is found when considering, why should the sun rise from the East and not the West? Wouldn?t it be a cooler design if the sun rose sometimes from the East and sometimes from the West? The answer is that it is as it is and it is the best design as proven to myself in numerous cases. God?s Reality always beats human imagination. In this case the most important thing to notice is that what I pointed out is in fact how it is. God is reporting how it appeared to the person. The second order question as to why all of the Quran does not read as God talking to sun directly (do not worship other than God, do not cheat, etc) without using simultudes and explaining previous history, quoting the Pharoah etc, Quran itself answers it in many verses. The answer is that God gives all kinds of examples and uses all kinds of language (direct, quote, paraphrase, simultudes, ?) so that all people can take heed, all can relate to it, yet provide a fully detailed Quran that is full of knowledge incomparable to anything man-made, so that we take lesson from history, ponder and learn or turn unappreciative and turn sour to show our idol worship? Just one example, 12111 In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe. Now if you mean the specific case of just why doesn?t God directly tell us that the earth circulates the Sun then the answer is that we are born in total freedom of choice, totally suspended in midst of freedom of choice to struggle or spend from our trust (volition) and act thus prove to our ownself who we choose as our god, God alone, or others besides him. The answer is that God similarly does not bring us into this world with the knowledge that the earth revolves around the us stamped on our forehead. We are not brought to this world to learn that the earth rotates the sun, we strive for all we have so that in the process we reveal to our own self leaving evidence of it in the material world of whether we choose God as god or we believe others can be god. Do you know how much man has struggled or strived to descover this? Same with the Quran. In the process you will prove to yourself who your God is. On the other hand God does not ask of us to accept what is not true. God does not put nonsense in the Quran and asks us to accept it on faith (the holy spirit nonsense of Paul in the Bible) Instead you will not find large amount of inconsistencies and what is in contradiction with reality in the Quran similar to what is found in every other book that claims to be answering the purpose of life. And the more you strive while not worshiping idols (being biased = worshiping idols) the more you will learn from the Quran. The day you will see things with eye of certainty is necessarily the day that this life is over. This life with all its wonders were created for us per our own request to be totally free side with God?s position, submit to God alon or Satan?s that there can be other gods beside God. 2210 Are they waiting until GOD Himself comes to them in dense clouds, together with the angels? When this happens, the whole matter will be terminated, and to GOD everything will be returned. 68 They also said, "If only an angel could come down with him!" Had we sent an angel, the whole matter would have been terminated, and they would no longer be respited. 69 Had we sent an angel, we would have sent him in the form of a man, and we would have kept them just as confused as they are confused now. Finally, why do you use the phrase Allah to refer to God when speaking English? Peace

Peace. Its like this. Every time I wana come on, I go onto the free-minds hom page, then click "whats new" and then go to the forum section. This monht nothing new has turned up so you can imagine how frustrating it is. So I was thinking, would it not be possible to have an outomatic system which sends a PM to users every time a new item appears in the whats new section, so we can have peace of mind that we are on the cutting edge. What do others think about this?

Hello Zlatan, ?and these doubts concerning my actions and ways, i believe, are partialy connected to not knowing the scripture detaily?or not being able to understand it properly and thus to aplie it to my situation or circumstances of my life....actualy sometimes i have no doubts about the rightousness( or unrightheousness) of the actions and i consider them clearly wrong or unrighteous, however sometimes i do?that is, after some further study my belief or view of them change and i found them not so incorrect or perfectly normal?and then again after a passage of time the doubts about their correctness arrise? You are no different from rest of us Zlatan! So be comforted -) You are stuck on the same "Ship Of Doubt" like the rest of us! It is just that some of us have managed, through determination, study, hard work, knowledge, understanding and trust in God, to climb on to a higher deck of that ship, and therefore can see little bit further and little bit clearly of the way ahead, and as a result are able reduce our burden of doubts little bit more. Only very few among us have managed to climb on to the mast of the ship and glimpse the horizon. And even those that have managed to climbed the mast; only few have sighted "land". We tend to call them "Prophets". Therefore in my view doubts are not bad. Doubts can be healthy. Doubts prevent us from taking anything for granted. Doubts are always a prelude to better understanding of God and religion. Doubts allows us to climb on to a higher deck so that we can understand a little more of where we are headed. And if we are brave, determined and courageous and have trust in God, then we can too, can climb on to the mast and see the horizon our self and perhaps even sight ?land? too! God is just Zlatan, He is most compassionate and most merciful, he allows every individuals to have experience like the prophets so that they too can have a "certainty" like the Prophets. If you are determined and courageous you can too have this ?certainty? and find that peace you are looking for?so don't see doubt as something that is "wrong" or "sinful" but something that continually prompts you to seek a better and better understanding of the "Truth", something that urges us to climb on to a higher deck so we can see the way ahead little better? Regards, P.S. Your English is fine... -)

The "oration" part of the PROCESS is not about "orating" a physical book, it is about speaking the Truths about the Universe (Al Kitaab). Idolfree - that is heavy stuff! I was becoming convinced of the argument about Orations, but I was a bit uneasy about it just being something ritulistic like Orating the Quran. But after this concept of it being a process, I think you've dug into great explanation of salar. And this concept of contemplating the universe - I was left speechles! The universe is the argument I put forward to myself to prove that God exists, and what better thing to do morning BTW would you say that participation on free-minds forum could be classed as Oration? Becuase I find it quite beneficial to me, it somehow keeps me connected, to God, especially living in an area where there isn't much monotheism in the blur of mullahs blaring their falsehood out all over the place. Ooohhh keep a beard and you won't burn... GET OUT! This is why I love free-minds so much. Thanks Idolfree.

Peace all, For more comments regarding 'leftys'... http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3221

of course,a beard is what separates a man from a boy , or more importantly a man from a girl Ohhh so THAT's what makes us different from eachother. Weman are boys that havent got a beard?!. lol (psssst...i have seen a naked woman a couple of times, i will swear that those boys are sorta...missing something )

Peace. Recently i've been going on the excellent PM site. It gives clear directions to FM for those who want to learn, and PM for those who want to help contribute to the cause of God alone; but the thing is, on free-minds, there isn't much mention of progressivemuslims.org at all on the home page, apart from the side advert for 'the message'. I was thinking, perhaps we could highlight that, because I've been here quite a while now (over 300 posts, I didn't even realise!), but i only just realised the different purposes of these two sites, I mean, shamsul-arefein was talking about promoting free-minds, and I thought I'd make leaflet, but I had no idea that people had that project actually going on the PM site! Otherwise I would have registered on the PM forum. The second problem is that i tried to go on the PM forum site, and I ended up at free-minds again! I tried again, and the same thing keeps happening! Is it supposed to be like that? I was under the impression that they are both separate forums! Maybe the link given has an error...dunno...