General Issues / Questions

I have locked this topic because these posts are bordering on "spamming" and are simply eating up the bandwidth on the site for no good reason. Please refrain from long posts.

Yes, I see what you mean and you are right, as far as I can see. This kind of issues will never do to see who is right or who is wrong or who is good or bad, unless it is on the extremes of the question. But I think God throws them on us, for the same reason that he throws everything else to make us know, and struggle in his way. As you rightly say, to be more understanding, to help go through those trials, also to help people who have not yet got to that point but are still in time to avoid it, to get there. It may be a trial for those who are subject to those situations , but also for those around and the whole society. Salaam

So do you research the lives of every single prophet? I wouldnt call it research but yea.i like reading up on the prophets' struggles..the way they went about spreading the truth..the obstacles in their ways etc.i dont know about every single prophet to ever come to earth, but yea im interested in all i come across in the Book. Why, when the Word of God is complete and fully detailed? God's word is complete and fully detailed, but i like knowing how the righteous men of God dealt with situations. theres a reason why the Word was sent down through messengers..through ordinary humans with extraordinary strength and wisdom, instead of just a book falling from the sky. and i think its partly so this "test" can be a valid test..where our choice is based on us understanding the message instead of just seeing miracles happen all the time. I find comfort in knowing how even the most righteous men stumbled and got scared at times...gives me strength and allows me to tell myself that if they can do it..then maybe i can try achieving atleast some level of enlightenment as them. Does that include those who are mentioned in the Quran but whose name we don't know? as i mentioned before, i like reading up on whomever I come across mentioned in the quran....specially if their struggles hit close to home. If yes, how do you research them? If not, why do you differentiate among prophets? I basically read the quran to get more information.....if i happen to stumble across some other source ill read it like a history book i guess...sometimes i read the bible to see glimpses of Jesus's teachings....its interesting to me, which is why i do it. nothing religious about it i guess. regarding the prophets who arent mentioned in the quran, well I have no idea about them so I dont have any interest in them. its not differentiating among them if you dont know who they are.

Even though there is lawful and unlawful divide about things and actions, the ultimate rule is that normal laws are for normal situations and circumstances therefore under normal siutation and ciurcumstances what is unlawful is unlawful including suicide. However not all situations and circumstances are normal for everyone everywhere therefore, it is up to individuals or society to decide whether the rules of the game have changed or not. For example under normal circumstances one cannot kill anyone but when attacked one is allowed to defend and in that context killing of the attacker is no sin if that is the only way for the attacked to survival. Same with food that haraam become halaal when situation dictates. Islam has laws regarding three situations; laws that are private for individuals ie things between man and his god. So long as a matter does not affect anyone else in any way, it is one's own business. 2)Matters between individuals and their god relating social conduct. Two people do with each other whatever they like it is between god and them and nothing to do with legal authorities in the land. Two people fight each other and make up and do not go to police to report the incident then that is the end of matter. 3)matters between individuals and their god relating social conduct as well as law enforcing authorities in the land. Matters like birth, death, marriage, divorce, killing, robbing etc etc are not personal because such things need legal proofs for proper functioning of a society for various purposes. Society is an organisation or an association hence the rules and regulations for organisational purposes. Therefore suicide is only sin if it is intended for wrong reason not otherwise. A perons sees a kid in the road and sees a car coming which is going to crush him and dives to save him and dies in the process is not a sin. So the intension and purpose or motive behind going for one's death decides whether one has sacrficed one's life or merely taken it away. If one is in pain beyond one's capability to bear it, then suicide would not be sin because one is not taking one's life merely for sake of it or happily. Sin is only there when one does something with intention of sinning. Likewise intentions, situations and circumstances are between god and the person acting therein. Just thought that one is going to die if one does not get the food and one is not aware of getting the hallaal food, is enough to turn the unlawful lawful for the person. You don't have to actually die to prove to youself that you were really in need of it.

Why would Allah give us a powerful brain if we were supposed not to use it? Ijitihad is important since it allows us to grow close to Allah. It allows us to understand what Allah wants from us. It allows us to be what he wants us to be. We cannot be in a state of islam if we don't use Ijitihad. Yes we will be in submission. Not in submission to Allah, submission to those who tell us we can't use Ijitihad. Think for yourselves and grow close to Allah. Just my thoughts. JewishDude peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace

PEACE JAFAR, Ive gone through the link and my questioned not answered therein. Meanwhile, thanks for your observation. So, what did quran say about tax? Brother Annur, Did quran talk about tax ? If yes, what did it say? ZUBAIRUS

Within this land/community there is freedom of belief and if certain groups want dispensation from the central authority, they can write up and agree on treaties, which basically mean any offence or procedure or compensation within their own group, not anyone else, can be dealt with according to that group's own laws/customs. That would be fine. If at some point, a crime occurred involving someone with dispensation and others (not from the same group), the central authority law would be the default. If there are any disputes within the groups with dispensation, they can seek the central authority for arbitration/decision/etc. Central authority has final say. I would revised the procedures to be "Any offence or procedure or compensation performed by anyone including person who is outside of 'the group' within 'the group' specific area of jurisdiction are dealt with according to 'the group' own laws / customs." As within the world today it's hard to define 'the group' in terms of personal membership, given The rate of inter-marriage among "the groups" (which is actually good) The movement rate of people which has become faster these days much thanks to the advancement of travel technology (airplane, railways, cars) As thus it is more practical to define "the group" as "area of jurisdiction". The common example of this are within the US, where every state could have their own set of laws which is applicable to anyone who perform such activity / crime within the state area, including foreigner or non-state citizen. Even the world today has commonly practice such mechanism, US citizen caught carrying certain amount of narcotics within Singapore area of jurisdiction shall be treated and punished accordingly to the Singaporean law. As a side note Mutual self-defence policy is obligatory upon all who are able living in the land, i.e. if any external forces attack members of the land/community, it is an obligation upon the rest of the community to engage in self-defence etc. An opt out is possible by way of tax. Agreed.. and it's already commonly in place among many countries in the world today.. With "Permanent Resident" (Different tax arrangement yet exempted from mandatory military services) and "Citizen" status. Regardless of their "Theological View" and/or "Belief". Salam / Peace

On the contrary it does make sense to him, but he is adament, not because of having a solid argument but merely emotionally. And ultimately finds this excuse; "We do not worship/allegiant to them except for the purpose that they may cause us to be nearer in access to Allah". That's an interesting one. So you mean they argue that by worshipping something else it is bringing them closer to Allah? If so, I bet that argument could work for many things lol

In parts of Britain, Muslims are effectively under siege... ...They are routinely spat at and abused in the street. Over the past couple of months there have been arson and other attacks on mosques in Hemel Hempstead, Leicester, Scunthorpe, Stoke and Kingston, as well as desecration of a Muslim graveyard and fire-bombing of a halal shop. Most of these outrages weren't even reported in the national media, let alone the occasion for a supportive visit from a government minister. As elsewhere in Europe, far-right organisations such as the British National party have increasingly switched the focus of their hatred from Jews and migrant populations in general to Muslims. <<

Sura 21 is added. We are over halfway, and thus the majority of the argument is officially ours. Peace.

I like to use a knife and cut it -- this is definitely not proper sunna... o I will pray for you to be guided to the right way SEid. However until then I'm gonna to stay well away as you know that these types of mistakes can be catching.

Interesting how the discussion now has gone into 'indonesians politics'.. ) In which I'm not an expert.. ) From my (simple) perspective, what I see in the video is A group of thugs attacking people. A subset of those thugs murder (at least) two people. The men in uniform (police?? they're too fat to be a policemen for me, does indonesian police forgot to do their exercise and eat donuts all the time too??) are neglecting their task of protecting those poor people. Infact I saw in those video that one of the men in uniform are also 'filming' the 'murder process' using his mobile phone and doing nothing to prevent it. What need to be done is Identify those thugs who are sadistically murdering those poor people, which is very easy to do thanks to the video. Apprehend them and charge them for murder in court. I don't know about indonesian law, but personally I'm against death penalty (hanging, beheading, electric char). A maximum of life prison for murder is just enough for me. Put forward a sanction against those men in uniform due to their negligence of task. Salam / Peace

I am not very much concerned about history from the point of view of religion. I believe the Qur'an is truthful by itself, regardless of what historians discover or say. From the historical point of view of course, yes, I am interested in knowing all about it. I see a big problem though in that there is always o lot of straneous interest invested in history, as if someone was winning a contest or something. I am not interested in that. I am not interested in anybody showing me either that the Qur'an is invented by this or that person or the opposite, for that I can manage myselfas I said. But I will be glad to read what people who have really gone into it have to say about these questions from the historical point of view. It is also a fact that most shit about Muhammad has been written by so called Muslims, like Ibn Isahk, so it is difficult that it can get worse than that. Salaam

rana, totally agree! i know people who hurt their spouses and spouses who were hurt. if cyrus thinks getting a girlfriend or marrying is the solution, it is not. this is something that he needs to figure out for himself before hurting a whole lot of people.

Alan Watt The Neo-Eugenics War On Humanity Part 1 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7foJ9ad3PM&feature=related Part 2 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDndeMN5MQA&feature=related Part 3 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXxXUtvb0k&feature=related Part 4 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7D30tw4dm4 Alan Watt continues to divulge his fascinating in-depth insights into how culture is created from the top down and used by the elite to manipulate and pervert natural human instincts towards their own ends. Every change in culture, right down to fashion and music, points out Watt citing Plato, had to be authorized and promoted from the top. This science of mass mind control is still taught today by the insiders and mediums such as television are used as weapons of social control to prevent humanity from ever realizing its full potential. Watt talks about how the elite technocrats plan for the long term, in 50, 100 and even 150 year cycles in which to implement the different aspects of their agenda, and how each cultural shift was deliberately timed to be implemented at a certain time. The current cultural bombardment surrounds the emergence of neo-eugenics, with big foundations and organizations like the Optimum Population Trust pushing the idea that humans are superfluous, virus-like, and therefore worthless. Watt discusses how sperm counts across Europe and America have dropped at an alarming rate of up to 80 per cent over the past 50 years, and how the media's complete ignorance of this crisis proves that it was authorized as a deliberate program of de-population. Watt traces the program back to its origins in the 1950's, where synthetic female hormones like estrogen were put in baby foods by companies like Proctor and Gamble, as well as baby milk bottles washed with Bisphenol A, the very substance that attacks male genitalia and prevents it from developing properly. Watt also outlines how Bisphenol A in women's cosmetic products contributes to toxifying their bodies, leading to an environment for male babies that leads them to have a reduced sperm count or even become sterile.The foundation of the agenda can be discovered in the writings of people like Bertrand Russell and the Huxley brothers, who talked about the need to sterilize the masses as far back as the 1930's. Watt also divulges how the elite's ultimate goal for every human allowed to be born is for them to serve the state and be deceived into accepting this enslavement as a natural form of existence. The elite's greatest fear is that the "inferiors" will out-breed the "superiors," which is why they continually push neo-eugenics and are obsessed with inter-breeding to keep their own genetics intellectually pure. <<

Salam, my understanding of "those whom the right hands possess" is the people you are engaged with, e.g. someone you are mariying but haven't consumed the mariage yet, someone you are divorcing but you still can get back with. In these 2 cases, you stil can go back before concluding you are married, but if you have "sexual relation" with her/him then you are "quranicaly" married. Peace

This is a very popular hadith among Sunni muslims as it gives them legitimacy as being the largest sect. I was wondering the opinion of the group on this and any verses from the Qur'an that counter this. I think the hadith contradicts 262 which says "Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve." What do you think? (Hafiz Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullah) in The Signs Before The Day of Judgement (pg. 14) "Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).&#039 As clearly stated by God in the Quran. GOD IS NON-SECTARIAN also known as SECULAR, GOD IS SECULAR. He doesn't care about sect, cult, religion, races as consideration for passing His judgement When finally all of the people realize this and thus becoming secular, the sect / cult will lose their appeal, and the sect / cult leaders (read ulema) will lose their power and relevancy. That's why among the sectarians, secularism are their greatest enemy. That is why they constantly abuses and demonized the concept of 'secularity' up until now. This attitude is not only commonly found among the Sunnis a.k.a Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah but also among other sectarian / cultist group such as Catholics, Shiites / Ahlul Bayt, Orthodox, Judaism, LDS, Mormons and hundreds others.. Salam / Peace

Salaam alaykum. I reject the term "traditional" Muslim. The Muslim ummah began with Prophet Mohamed and he certainly did not write the hadiths. He only shared surahs and gave advice, not tell others to follow conjecture. To refer to them as "traditional" Muslims suggests that their views is traditional and thus closer to how Islam was in the beginning, when really the hadith is just conjecture. I don't mean to offend you with this, just giving my viewpoint on that. I don't think we should follow conjecture. As long as we don't identify ourselves as anything else except as simply Muslim (ie. "submitters to God&quot instead of Quranist, Shia, Sunni, Sufi, or anything else, then our consciences should be clear because we're not separating ourselves. I can only speak for myself and I don't tell others that I am different from them because I reject the hadith. I don't ask whether they do or don't but if the topic comes up, I will say what is true, but I don't try to separate myself. If others choose to not consider us part of the ummah because we disagree about the hadith or because we don't consider ourselves Sunni, Shia, or part of any sect, then we are fine. I don't consider Muslims who reject the hadith as part of a certain sect. We are simply Muslims, "submitters to God", who follow God in His instruction to consider ourselves part of one ummah (ie. simply Muslim), not to follow conjecture, not even out of peer pressure.

Thanks for the replies everyone! I didn't mean argue as in yelling or evangelizing I meant discussing my beliefs with the people in my community that we're interested in hearing about them or had questions.

To make the first cause argument simple, it pretty much states that If the first cause is nothing, no subsequent cause would exist, and nothing would exist. If the first cause is eternal, subsequent causes may be created by it. And so it is, because something exists. Now, God (first cause) did not become something more, because logic deduces that the first cause is eternal, unchangable. So the later must be created from nothing, and not the same. And there you have Abrahams God.