General Issues / Questions

nice post mohamed

Many thought the same thing when Hurricane Katrina hit new Orleans! But why is it always the poor to pay?

Salam, Not only Circumcision is a contradiction with regards to the Quran as there is nowhere in the Quran that God asks the believing men and women to circumcise their boys!!! but also deviant tradition, supported by a well known cultural and religious bias, even thought they claim otherwise. All the pseudo scientific researches trying to prove that circumcision is good for sex and health, and those promoting it are conveniently biased! Do a background check, please. Also while you're at it what about try and look into the Risks, complications, and drawbacks of circumcision? This is not something insignificant! you might consider it thought, same as do the majority of traditionalists. Many of us here were brought up in different environment socially, economically and traditionally, and this plays a major role in forging inside each one of us a sense of belonging, a link that is difficult to part from. We are told in the Quran to follow the Quran, and not accumulated traditions. Circumcision is an old tradition and has nothing to do with Islam. Islam doesn't impose anything on anyone.. so may I ask you what choice does a child has? Regards

I am always somewhat mytified when people see clearly that the end of the world, or of civilisation is coming, or a new extinction of species end-of-the-world-like or whatever. 20.15 I see as a reminder of the fact that that every soul will be weighd and every atom of good will be acknowledged, and every atom of evil will be acknowledged. A do not particularly bind that to any worldly event. In the dunya we are in a material realm where everything is constrained and subject to the time and space dimensions. Once we are dead, do we know what kind of conditions we will be in? Will time-space be of any consequence. 72.27 does not say anything about the future, it talks about al-Ga'ib. Al ga'ib may well be beyond space-time constraints and not refer at all to end of the world. The end of the world is at hand, that is for sure, for many of us much closer than fifty years. The end of the world is when we die. Salaam

Seen the stuff...Sad. Yet in the near future WikiLeaks is going to have a new vid about American troops in Afghanistan killing innocent civilians. Seems these guys make killing Muslims the new version of the movie Death Race 2000. One question...What would be their reaction to foreign troops killing innocent people on American soil?

YIKES! Next thing, they'll have bacon flavored chicken... I wouldn't be surprised. ;D Reminds me of this Coming soon vegetarian chicken that tastes just like chicken!

Piracy is making a copy of a copy. Theft is REMOVING the original.

Its been some time since I stopped in. BTW, hi all. This incident of the lightning hitting the Jesus statue. It was nature, pure and simple. Attributing anything else can be compared to a tornado hitting a mosque, church, or synagogue. Just because one particular religious item was targeted by nature, this is no reason to start any wild conspiracy theories.

Think about this, you are Muhammad and you have finally delivered the message from THE LORD OF EXISTENCE, would you say "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray" after YOU have completely delivered a message from an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-hearing force? Very good point.

salam Alen, i am just curious, because your quote of my post is different (your insertion is marked bold & red) from my original. your quote was salamun AAalaykum, it seems quite common nowadays, almost like a rule unfortunately, that most discussions in this forum have taken a digressing turn; developing from naive queries into diabolicaling the same discussion, me included.arguments & fights. personal attacks are common, as if some people are holding the absolute truth and reserved the right to run down on the others. name calling is almost a routine. why is that? why? when my original post was salamun AAalaykum, it seems quite common nowadays, almost like a rule unfortunately, that most discussions in this forum have taken a digressing turn; developing from naive queries into diabolical arguments & fights. personal attacks are common, as if some people are holding the absolute truth and reserved the right to run down on the others. name calling is almost a routine. why is that? why? rest assured that i took your insertion as a personal reminder to me, but is there any other particular reason for this? and perhaps i may also add another personal observation here; i believe that the message of the qur'an teaches us to liberate ourselves rather than dominate. liberating here implies among others freeing ourselves from prejudices, e.g. against traditions; or against things that our forefathers opined and did; or for our personal truth against others (for God attains one accordingly in progression), etc. therefore in this regard, why do we have to make an issue out of, for e.g., hadiths, rashad khalifa, others' translations/understandings or exegesis, etc.? essentially, liberating also may imply a detachment from attachments, e.g., freeing the heart from all sorts of feelings (all types of illness of the heart, including ill feelings, cravings, obsessions, hate, jealousy, happiness, fear, despair, anger, etc.) to enjoy the peaceful/tranquil state of the heart; or freeing the mind from the thoughts, perhaps by observing them; or freeing the eyes from all that is visible (where there is no beauty or ugliness) to attain the enlightenment that everything is 'qudratu allah' (where nothing moves without His leave), thus it is what it is and as is, and finally to attain 'AAayna alyaqeen' or the eye of certainty. this is all about the stages/progressions in one's journey in the path/way of God. it entails 'haqeeqat' and 'maAArifat', but the ultimate is beyond both. and those embarking on the journey in path/way of God will definitely traverse this route. as such, our disposition will surely reflect our station/standing/status at any point of time. it is all about 'khuluq' or character, effected only by a paradigm shift and a change of habits or a break of habits which essentially is a 'AAamila salihan' (self reform). but as always, this is merely my personal comprehension. it could be wrong as much as it could be true. it is just something that perhaps should be pondered upon and considered. it is a personal choice. again, thanks for the reminder, Alen, and may peace be upon you. and may God guide us all the correct way, insha-Allah. warm regards mohammed noh

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Additional verses And of men is he who takes instead frivolous discourse to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement. And when Our communications are recited to him, he turns back proudly, as if he had not heard them, as though in his ears were a heaviness, therefore announce to him a painful chastisement. And when you see those who enter into false discourses about Our communications, withdraw from them until they enter into some other discourse, and if the Shaitan causes you to forget, then do not sit after recollection with the unjust people. Believe me when I say it, the quran does really have an example for EVERYTHING. These are part of the clear examples/signs, the more intricate complexities of life are completely covered by quran also but it requires a good mindset to understand where they are shown in the verses.

Peace be upon you, with all due Respect. One should always keep in mind this 494 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace You are not a believer! You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do. There is an article regarding war in Bosnia. Since my relatives are from Bosnia and some of them still live in USA and Belgium, i might add a few words, God willing. God bless you all. Peace.

Alright all my bros n sistas here.. cool it.. wierd how so many of u are so ignorant abt basic issues before u start blaming the Quran and even God... yeesh! So u guys feel the Quran has done nothing to ban SLAVERY?? Heyyy before u start accusing, understand something... this so called "slaves" in the Quran (and for tat matter even the Bible) refers to the working class of the day... u know the labourers and workers? im sure everybody knows tat those days there were no employment-contracts, no offices and no salaries ryt... so naturally they had workers for life who lived and worked with the family in their homes, their whole lives till death... tat was the only possibility then...... So rather than treating such workers like animals, the Quran taught the landlord-class to be kind and compassionate to their slaves (worker).. Ofcourse wen we hear abt slaves today, we get a picture of some naked guy tied up in big chains..... (well blame the disbelievers for such treatments of their workers) hope tat answers the qstn of this gr8 debate, dudes...... sun -Harris O0

The following site is a must www.StudyQuran.org Thanks Wakas! ) Salam

peace Arnold, all, I had a chance to read some of Shahrur's book. Specifically the part on 434 and I wasn't impressed. In fact, his understanding has significant flaws. The following are my brief notes States nushuz = neglect of responsibility. Where is this from? Likely interpretation. Tries to make a case for al-rijal referring to both men/women in the context of 434. Whilst seemingly plausible, provides no Classical Arabic Dictionary evidence other than the dual can sometimes refer to male & female. Cites 937 which is a different root for nisa compared to others yet does not explain reasoning/evidence for this. Neglects to comment on guard in the unseen. Probably because it causes significant problems in his view. Neglects to mention why it is "fears nushuz", implying something not blatant/direct/obvious. Inserts his own "and if a woman is married a refusal to share her bed". States Finally, if these things fail, she should be punished by the withdrawal of her right of guardianship/qiwama qiwama = the provision of strong leadership and financial power God is the one who bestows it upon some, not it is something taken away (and thus given) by another. How this so-called punishment even works is anyone's guess. It is explained as "civilized conveyance of discontent and rebuke". It says DRB them, not DRB right of guardianship. When discussing 4128, mentions The text does not use the sexually charged terms for wife/husband (zawja/zawj) In classical arabic, zawj (pl. azwaj) are NOT sexually charged terms. Akin to "spouse/mate/pair" in English. Inserts bal as provider with no evidence. His point about bal being non-conjugal husband and zawj being conjugal husband is refuted by 2232. Not to mention the logical implications and cites no Classical Arabic Dictionary evidence. Does not mention the context of 4128, i.e. linked to 4127 with "wa". Adds a significant amount of explanation, most likely in order for it to make sense. Inadequate explanation of 4129. States This is exactly how the previous verse defined men?s nush?z and neglect as the two reasons why men have lost their qiwama. Technically it is nushuz OR neglect. Lost qiwama is not mentioned, and is an insertion/interpretation. Provides no resolution strategy for the wife, in terms of divorce. Seemingly misunderstands Quranic divorce procedure. Does not explain coherence (if any) of 434 and 4128, nor of 581-4. ################# However, he does bring up some interesting points. If you compare his analysis with my own at www.Quran434.com there is a big difference. However, mine is by far the most coherent understanding of all. Of course, I may be biased, so it is recommended to read/verify for oneself. If you have his contact details, let him know of the site.

Selam Wandering I would try to answer your experiences/questions from a book I have read, which has left a positive influence on me. If you get a chance download it from http//www.aididsafar.com/pdf/Mental%20Bondage.pdf Must warn you its not everyones cup of tea. So you make your own mind up. Background When it came to religion, everyone has to ask "why?". It's a part of the human psyche to question things on a level beyond our comprehension. Religion is there to fill the gaps and satisfy that need. Since Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all prophets could not bring anyone towards God - how is it then the pope, priests, scholars, ayatollahs, rabbis, monks, mullahs, are all claiming they can bring others toward God? Surely something must be wrong with their claim or something is not right with their followers - or people are simply deceived without their knowledge. However, the Reading gives the best advice to every man and woman to overcome this predicament You shall return to Him, observe Him, and uphold your commitments. Do not become idol-worshipers like those who change the way of life into ?religion?, each sectarian is happy with what they have. (3031-32) Follow those who do not ask from you any wage, they are guided. (3621) Religion is a false creation of men. Religion?s devotees are happy with what they practice. There are so many religions today but only one Creator. The fact is these religious torchbearers survive through various forms of income. The Reading is against such a system. (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) Growing up, reciting the Quran was considered paramount but understanding was something not to be dabbled in. Whenever I did pose any questions, I would be rebuked and told to go on reading and that I was not smart enough to comprehend it's meaning. From what little I did understand, I found the book as extremely peaceful and soothing. The first and fundamental rule in understanding the meanings of the Quran is the testimony of one word from the Quran itself. CONSISTENCY. ?Why do they not ponder over the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than God, they would surely find many contradictions therein? (482) In simple term the message of the Quran is consistent or inerrant. Any misunderstanding or inconsistency of interpreting the words is the results of humans? errors. When humans interptret a word or a verse of the book he or she must determine if the intepretation supports the meaning of similar words or verses in other parts of the Quran. If such an interpretation contradicts with each other ? then the interpretation is incorrect. (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) No court in the world accepts a plea of ignorance as vindication ignorance of the law is no excuse. By the same token, we cannot plead ignorance on the Day of Judgement or blame someone else for the wrong things that we have done. Nothing could be clearer than the statement in the Reading when it says So that you will not say on the Day of Judgement, ?Indeed we did not know about this.? (7172) Muslims on the whole ? and the modern Arabs in particular ? are grossly ignorant of God?s message in the Reading. They read without comprehension, believing that they gain merit for just chanting the Arabic verses aloud. They leave the understanding to the u?lema. On the whole, they are sincere and simple people who feel that they need to serve their Lord and lead a righteous life. They have been born into a suffocating inheritance of religion. While it is easy to empathise with this situation, we all have to take responsibility for what we do. We cannot blame our parents for our lot on Judgement Day. Or you may say, ?It was our parents who set up idols, and as descendants we followed their footsteps. Will You punish us because they strayed?? (7173) Today, people depend on the u?lema for guidance, but more often than not, the u?lema misguides them. By their deeds, and words we know that these u?lema are agents of the same wicked religionists who invented the Arab religion. We have seen how these fanatics twisted the meaning of the words deen, ?abd, and Sol-laa. They also twisted the word zakaa (so often mentioned with the word Sol-laa). (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) The hadiths, on the other hand, were like a poison. Most of my family isn't really religious except for one. He would go about bashing people with hadiths and a holier than thou attitude. He would use this condescending tone when it came to religion. His attitude was disgusting at best. What i still find frightening to this day was how he celebrated 9-11 and declared it a great victory for Islam (the only time i've ever physically assaulted a person). For sincere Muslims, the Reading clearly says Shall I seek other than God as a source of law when He revealed to you the Scripture fully detailed? Even those who receive the previous Scripture recognise that it came down from your Lord truthfully. Therefore you shall not harbour any doubt. (6114) The word of your Lord is complete in truth and justice. Nothing can abrogate His words. He is the hearer and the knower. (6115) If you follow the majority of people on earth - they will divert you from the path of God. They only follow conjecture - and they only guess (6116). After reading the above verses - try to pose a question to any rabbi or priest in the Arab religion - why do they need the extra Quranic laws in Islam? They will pick some verses from the Reading and quote it out of context like 'Obey God and obey the messenger' implying that Obeying God is to obey the Quran and obeying the messenger means to obey the sayings (hadith) of the prophet written by their imams who appeared more than 150 years after his death. These imams admitted they collected these sayings from sources who claimed they heard the stories from others. All the sharia laws in the Islamic countries are formulated from these extra Quranic writings and none of them can be found in the Quran. (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) After that incident, I stopped believing in my faith. For about 9 years, I believed that if god ever existed, he had failed humanity. Those who believe in God and His messenger are called to focus sincerely and consent to God?s prescribed way. The Last Prophet was made to declare Say, ?My Lord advocates justice. And be upright in your centre of attention by consenting fully, and invoke Him sincerely as a way of life (deen) the same way He created you that you may return.? (729) Whatever good happens to you is from God. Whatever bad happens to you are the consequences of your own deeds. (479) In other words, whilst a person is given the total freedom of choice in charting their way of life, God stresses the distinction between right and wrong, and there the golden rule applies God advocates only justice. (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) Fast forward to may 20th 2010. The facebook page was a massacre of sorts. I felt an extreme disgust for the Muslims posting holocaust jokes. I hated how the Muslims came across as ignorant and unwillling discuss. Most would resort to threat of sodomy. On the other hand, hadiths were being launched from both sides. I kept reading hadith upon hadith of perversion. At this point, I was completely disillusioned with Islam, not because of the insulting hadith but because of the ignorance of my fellow muslims. 4911 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors. (The Message) During this crises of faith, I received a revelation. An atheist friend goes "there is no better hadith than the Quran why don't you follow it for a change?". I guess this was one of those born again moments but I felt it was more of a blessing from above Studying the Quran brought me a little closer to myself and made me understand that god doesn't really care whether I pray or not, he only wants me to become a better person. The message of the Reading The basic message of the Reading is to observe God the Lord of Universe by consent. It is to believe in the One God and the Last Day and to work righteousness; it is to fulfil one?s obligations by upholding the covenants one commits oneself to. In God?s consented decree (mas-jidil-lah) there are also God?s laws and God?s limits which are the sha?iral-lah and hududul-lah respectively. For example, in 53 God prescribes the limits of restrictions about food. He says, prohibited for us is the consumption of blood carrion the decaying meat food dedicated to other than God animals that die through violent death. The subject of food is among God?s consented decrees. He decreed that only five types of foods are sanctioned as prohibited. Those who consent themselves to the deen are required to focus on these sanctions. You shall focus towards the sanctions in the consented decree. Wherever you may be, you shall focus on it. Even those who received the previous Scripture recognise that this is the truth from their Lord. God is never unaware of what you do. (2144) God says He is aware of everything we do. He is not concerned with where we live or where we go. But wherever we are we must focus on the consented sanctions revealed by Him. Each time God instructs His servants to observe a certain set of commitments He indicates this by saying, ?these are the limits of God?. For example Divorce may be retracted twice. Thereafter, you shall allow them to stay in your home amicably if they so desire, or allow them to go amicably. You shall not take anything back you have given to them, unless the couple fears the violation of God?s limit (hududul-lah). If they fear the violations of God?s limit (hududul-lah) then they incur no sin if the wife forfeits anything voluntarily. These are God?s limits. You shall not transgress them. If anyone transgresses God?s limits (hududul-lah), then they are wicked. (2229) These are God?s prescribed limits for individuals to uphold in this domestic institution. The prescribed limits (or hududul-lah) are mentioned 14 times and they are confined to domestic issues. The religionists have abused the word hudud by introducing a set of barbaric laws of their own contrivance which they have named the hudud law. Naturally, it has nothing in common with sane and balanced Qur?anic injunctions. This is how they abuse God?s name. In the hudud law they invented ? which goes by the same name God chose for His limits ? they can stone people to death, annul marriages arbitrarily without hearing the parties involved, declare you an apostate measured against their Arab religion, incarcerate you for not professing the Arab religion, banish you from the state and confiscate your property. And this they do in the name of God! Here is another challenge to the u?lema priests. There is not a single hudud law in the Arab religion implemented by the so-called Islamic countries, which is derived from the Reading. Not one. Can you prove otherwise? If not then hang up your robes and do something more useful with your lives before it is too late. The Arabic tribal laws (which they call hudud laws) were not prescribed by God in the Reading. The true prescribed limits or hudud in the Reading are fair principles which are meant to be interpreted and applied by individuals without any religious elements. These are the facts. (Aidid Safar, Mental Bondage) Well this is my experience, I would love to hear from other people Hope the reply was useful. May Allah guide us on the right path. Peace

"The saudhis are blessed people. We don't want to argue with them because they have beards. That shows how rightly guided they are" ;D ;D

DH, What does this verse have to do with 'Allah is some kind of a sadist' ? It simply states that 'kafirs' are tormented through what they've gained. This has nothing to do with 'children suffering'. Tell me this are the children of Israel also being 'punished' by the hands of allah? By your logic, Pharoah was on the right path! Those children suffered, so they had to have been disbelievers! See 249. Pharoah was a messenger from God, and the children of israel denied him, hence the torment! &nbsp The verse refers to Allah punishing kafirs THROUGH/WITH THEIR CHILDREN. What do you think that might involve in practice? Simply saying "'kafirs are tormented through what they've gained" does not constitute an answer. Provide some examples of how Allah might use the Kafirs' children to punish them. No one is punished without first receiving a messenger (1715). All nations have now received messengers/warners (1636). Therefore ignorance can no longer be a defense. Please tell me where in the Quran, atheists are mentioned. Atheists clearly come under the category of those who deny Allah, his messengers and his signs. Are you claiming only 'atheists' can be 'disbelievers'? No. There are a gazillion different reasons why 'babies suffer' Provide just one. It's simple you are reciprocated for your own works (good and bad), without the least injustice (see 2281, 325, 330, etc). Indeed, and if Allah decides to leave a group of atheists or other wrongdoers isolated on an island in pig ignorance of the wrong they are doing to the end of their days and burns them in hell that is Allah's justice. If you are implying above that these atheists might somehow avoid hell through "good works" then you are deluding yourself I am afraid. BABIES have no works! It is nonsensical to claim they can believers/disbelievers simply based on how they lived/died/'suffered'. Why otherwise would Allah cause apparently innocent babies to suffer and die? There are a gazillion different reasons why 'babies suffer' Provide just one. and none of which has to do with God inflicting pain for his own amusement. Why otherwise would a being inflict pain for no apparent reason? If you saw someone pulling the wings of a fly for what reason would you imagine they were doing it? If our fates are predetermined why is Moses being instructed in this way "Go, both of you, to Pharaoh, for he has transgressed." "So say to him soft words, perhaps he will remember or take heed." - 2043- Allah guides whom he will and leads astray whom he will. Babies have no Free Will, they are not psychologically mature enough to make any decision. So why does Allah make babies suffer and then kill them before they develop faculties of judgement?

Peace all ) I have a question. The first sentence of the verse below is telling us that human beings can not create any living thing (not even something as small as as a fly). But i want to know what the second sentence of the verse is telling us. What is your interpretation/explanation of the second sentence in the verse below? Quran 2273 O people, an example is being put forth so listen to it those you call upon besides God will not create a fly even if they all gathered to do so. And if the fly takes anything from them, they will not be able to return anything from it. Weak is both the seeker and the sought! It would be interesting to hear your explanations. Peace, Respect. I'd say that this fly, if ther eis one, and she decides to take something away from a human, they would be unable to get it back from her. Obviously this fly was not and is not the creation of human. The first part speaks about how human cannot reate and the second how the existing creation, as small and powerless as a fly can take something from us and we wouldn't be able to get it back. A pigeon can "steal" my piece of bread from my hands and i won't be able to get it back, since i got no wings. God knows best. Peace.