General Issues / Questions

The question "which son?" can also be asked of the Bible. Genesis 222 - Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." At no time was Isaac Abraham's only son. That distinction belonged only to Ishmael, as he was Abraham's first born. In the conversations I've had on this topic, many explain this "inconsistency" by saying Issac was was Abraham's only "legitimate" son, because Hager (Ishmael's mother) was merely a hand maiden/servant to Abraham. This is untrue as the verse below clearly shows, Hager was Abraham's second wife Genesis 163 - So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. As far as what Qu'ran says on the matter, the following verses (as interpreted in QXP 2nd edition) show Ismael was the son sacrificed in Abraham's vision 37100 (Abraham emigrated to Syria and prayed), ?My Lord! Grant me the company of the righteous, and children who will be righteous.? 37101 So We gave him the good news of a clement son (Ishmael). 37102 And when he was old enough to strive along with him, Abraham said, ?O My dear son! I have a vision that I must give you to a life of test and tribulation for a Noble cause (37107). So look, what do you think?? He said, ?O My father! Do what you are commanded. God willing, you will find me of the steadfast.? The mentioning of Ishmael in parenthesis in 37101 is an addition of the QXP interpreter, which I believe is accurate, based on 37100 shows Abraham was without children when he prayed for ..."children who will be righteous.? 37101 shows "We" (Allah) answered his prayer. Even the Bible, in Genesis 154, supports the fact that Ishmael was born after Abraham spoke to God, and was promised,..."a son coming from your own body will be your heir." I, therefore, am confident that Ishmael was the son Abraham had a vision about sacrificing. Siddiq

does it really matter if layth is a messenger or not. For me it doesnt matter if anyone claims to be messenger, rasool, nabi or bush's secret agent. The bottom line is I have a brain to think whats right and wrong and thats by guide.... Peace Peace GOD IS THE ONLY GUIDE

peace no, of course u always need an insider to help you move around. the image of muslims idolizing leaders its worrying,most just follow like sheep. p.slostphilos,if u take some time to do some research about 911 youll see clearly how it was 100% an inside job.it only takes some studying to prove it,not believing in it with faith. peace

Peace Arif, Layth is correct. "Bism", or "Be Ism" means "in the name of" in Arabic. Further, there is no mandate on using "Bismillah" as a greeting, only... 486 And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. God is Reckoning over all things. Or, we can follow the example of Ibrahim whose greeting was, "Peace be upon you". Lastly, look as 1010... Their prayer in it is "Glory be to God!" and their greeting in it is "Peace", and the end of their prayer is "Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds!" Peace, Tay

Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem. It is a test. Best Regards / Salam-o-aleikum Arif.

Peace bro "Tanveer", Good pts but ive to comment on one claim of yours ...mind over matter... JK- "Mind over matter" is usually taken as a paranormal phenomenon and if taken as such is clear nonsense. Moreover the mind itself is comprised of ?nnections of molecules and atoms i.e. matter again. But if it what is meant was that once mwtter combines in a certain way so that it is able to control other loose or less complexly combined matter then the deinition will be correct. GOD Bless!

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I found this site while searching for information on reading the Qu'ran. I am interested in learing more about Islam. After skimming and reading some of the posts, I thought I could join the conversations and ask questions as they come up during my study.

Salam. I read somwhere that in the last 500 years there haven't been 25-year period of peace. Of contnious peace. Of course, i could be wrong .... Peace.

Peace Boost, Your right, the same kind of regression by division happened after others received the book. The process seems to be a movement towards unity, then one of division. Then from that divided state a renewed process towards unity etc... In using the quran I like the discription of that movemement going from darkness, to light and from light to darkness. History moves from night to day and from day to night. History is not just limited to day and night, it is also the cumulation of them, added into months and years. Although a specific group is divided amongst themselves, history progresses. The historical challenge is to pick up the relay where it stopped. I see Noah picking up where Adam dropped the relay stick, in the firmness. I see Abraham picking up where Noah dropped, in the transmission to his son, etc... The way I read things, future success will be in relationship with Allah using the quran. I can't see it in any other way. Now I mentionned 'Muslims' today as opposed to muslims today not to single them out historically, but in admission and recognition of a problem within as opposed of in denial of it. If any solution is to arise, a recognition of a problem must first be present. adjwi

Salaamun alaykum I believe Every One of The Messengers was and 'IS' a Muhammad , and the Last Prophet Who has become a Great Idol and "Cult Figure" for Millions of Sunnis and Shi?hs is a real Person with the Name of Ahmad as 616 . salaam

There is always no-brainer extremist haters on both sides. We have Osama bin Goblin and they have Crack Wine. As a Jewish proverb says "If everybody stands on the same platform, we would stumble the world."

Salam. There will be time when a black man will be the president and America will change for the better of course and there will also come a time when a black Muslim will be the president and things will change even better then before but i believe that USA will be a truly the most powerful and the best country the moment a black Muslim woman is elected not only as the president but as the vice-president, myaor of most of the big cities in USA, as .... whatever. One day. God willing. Peace.

Peace all I agree with Bro Dion KSA may not be a true islamic state but please tell me which country is? I don't understand why everyone here decided to call saudis evil and saudi arabia bad just because you need a visa to enter. Please do tell, which country in the world does not require a visa for you to enter it? Every country in the world has a right to protect itself plain and simple. Salam. I understand but as a Islamic state, which it isn't, KSA should be a little more gentle towards the outer world, after all, not everybody is crazy about visiting it, right? I eman, everybody wants to visit USA for 99 reasons but how many people wants to go to Yemen or KSA or Dubai for a vacation? And in Dubai they won't let you in, if they see in your passport that you have visited Israel. How crazy is that? I guess you're right, BOOST, times have changed. Peace.

Peace Warner, History is far from a concrete science, as I'm sure you're aware. For this reason, it is very difficult to differentiate between what is real and what was propagated as real. For our own purpose and evolution, it doesn't matter. If Muhammad, or Isa, or Ibrahim were real people, or if they are allegories, the message behind their stories is what's beneficial to me. Also, the popularity of a person or idol, imo, is not an accurate barometer of whether or not they really existed. How many people do you think actually believed in the Greek gods over the centuries? To me, the strength and longevity of a philosophy has nothing to do with the person or persons responsible for the philosophy's creation, but the level and amount of truth contained within the philosophy itself. Take christianity, for example. The core tenets are non-sensical, but the vast majority of the text strikes a chord with people because it is a message of peace and love for the most part. Thus, it's an easy trade-off for christians to blindly believe in a trinity concept as part of the package of verifiable truths. It seems the more far-fetched and unreasonable doctrines do not have as long of a shelf-life. Peace, Tay

Peace to all, Sign me up too, I agree Boost and Asperin, this is what ive been saying since I started posting here, we need to form a Quran/God alone society. It would be tolerant and inclusive, not guided by Shariah which is from hadeeth but its legal concepts would be derived from Quran. This has never yet been done in history and I have this funny feeling that if we tried to do this God just may approve, can you imagine how much good we can do if we were succesfull. I think its almost time to stop our talking here and start doing,,,, and I do have some ideas on this. Kurt Salam. Kurt, count me in. I mean, i already have several ideas how to form a Quranic country. We already have the platform, that would be USA or Europe or South America, it doesn't matter which one, it's important that these places have lots of people. AlhamdilAllah. Now, we need to elect a Quran Alone Muslim to the office and install the right laws. I'm not saying that this newly elected person should "destroy" the life of the disbelievers, i'm just saying that such a president should show to the people why should they follow him or believe like him or support him or vote for him. Example If on the next election a Quran Alone Muslim wanted to run for office (USA) and he or she wins, that president should first offer those things that all, lierally all people want and need free stuff that we are given by The God health and education. I think that if Hilary R. Clinton said that if she is elected president, that she will make medical help and education free of charge, i'm sure that they would vote for her in a second. Then, this president would start removing the bad stuff from the society but not in the way that it seems he's doing this to satisfy his own needs. For example president bans tobacco and alcohol and then brings in all the doctors in the country at the round table and they explain why we should live without tobacco and alcohol. Yes, i know, people would be unemployed. Don't worry, i got a plan for them. These people that just got fired, because their companies closed, will receive certain amount of money that will help them survive one year in which they must either look for another job or the government will search for them or help them find anothe job and stop spying on other countries. The president should then ban prostituition and gambling, which means Las Vegas will change. Many people there will become sober and will have to stop gambling because this will be the law now. People who steal, rob banks, little thiefs, all of them should be working and not lying in cells all day long thinking of the next robbery as soon as their bail kicks in. I don't care what job, give them something, they can either clean the streets, recycle paper, fish at the sea or even clean windows all day, just as long as they learn to earn money and not steal it. Weapons will not be on sale anymore. At least not the big ones. Who needs AK-47 for home protection? The biggest gun they should be selling is a hand gun and instead of bullets, a new invention rubber bullets, i think they already have them, right? So, when someone shoots someone, at least no one will die, cry, avenge or be arrested. Salaries All citizens of such a country will have equal salaries. From the president to the last maid or the miner. Cars One car per family. I mean, do we all really need to polut the air so much? We alread yhave planes, trains, buses, .... right? All soldiers will be home, protecting the borders and not caring for other people's oil or any other interests they might find in their soil. Religious duties will be allowed everywhere, kindergarten, school, workplace, airports, outdoors, everywhere. Taxes will be reduced to the minimum. Rapists will be punished with 100 lashes at the public place and therefore people will learn that looking at the woman's chest might cause him trouble in the future, let alone touching her or harming her. There are more things i wanna write but don't wanna write too long. These laws could be installed in USA today and even now, right now, if we just put our heads together. All we do is keep visiting this forum and just tlak about it. I'm not a US citizen but if i was there, i would do something. Just remember Malcolm X or Martin Luther King, they did something, they walked, they said i will do this and they did it. Many Americans from this forum have a beautiful opportunity to take charge and do something. You have the chance of a life time to make things better. I can try in my country all i want, but here, i'm just one person who thinks this way, well, two people, my brother shares the same thing i wrote here, so there, two of us here in Slovenia who would install these laws that i wrote, out of 47.000 sunnis here and bear in mind, 2.000.000 Slovenians are not exactly in love with Islam nor do they like us very much and they're strongly against building a 1. mosque so you can understand me. Peace.

Peace Wow excellent debate indeed! Winn's 15 minutes of fame appear to be almost over. The he can crawl back under the rock from which he came from. sun

Anyone else getting hungry? Makes me wonder if you can veganise a croissant, lol. I miss eating one. Allah-u-Abha, Kevyn.

Can we not put this matter to rest somehow? From what I've read, the oldest manuscript we have is 1200 years old, so the argument "We have the orginal manuscript" won't hold water since the manuscript in existence is off by 200 years (please correct me if I am wrong). Is it possible to start a project to determine once and for all whether we have the original Quran or not? Peace sikes

Peace Alen, Mekka has changed. Mecca is not anymore what it was in the beginning. I mean, today not only do people try to make profit but they are not ashamed to make profit with it. We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate." As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient. "The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people. In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone." The verses you quoted have "Bakka" as context, and not Mecca. First you make a remark about Mecca and then quote verses that have nothing to do with Mecca. The verses talk about the "bayt" at Bakka. In addition to that you have mistranslated a few words in these verses which change the meaning entirely, and I hope that was not intentional. Mistranslated verse #1 We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate." It is not "focal point" which implies "qibla", but the arabic word in the verse is "mathabatan" which means reward/replacement/compensation/model/resort/assembly. It is not "shrine" which has pagan connotations, but the arabic word is "albayta" meaning house/sanctuary. Please note that you translated the same word as "house" at the end of the verse which I bolded above. It is not "Abraham's shrine", the corresponding arabic word is "maqam" meaning place/station/persistence. Also there is no word in arabic for "sanctuary", where you said "safe sanctuary"; the arabic word is "amnan" meaning safety/security, and there is no arabic word for "sanctuary" in that place. The correct translation/interpretation in my understanding would be as follows 2125 And when We made The House (as) a reward/replacement/compensation/model/resort/assembly for the people, and (a) safety/security, and they took from Abraham's place/station/persistence a place of salat/connection/link, and We entrusted/recommended to Abraham and Ishmael "That purify/clean/wash My House for the visitors/passers by, and the devoted/dedicated/remaining, and the humble, the submissive." Mistranslated verse #2 As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient. It is not "shrine" but "house/sanctuary". It is not "foundation OF the house/sanctuary", for which the corresponding arabic would be "alqawa3ida LI albayti"; the original arabic in the verse is "alqawa3ida MIN albayti", meaning "foundation FROM the house/sanctuary". The correct translation in my understanding would be as follows 2127 And when Ibrahim raises the foundations/bases from The House/Sanctuary, and Ismail "Our Lord accept from us, that you are the hearing/listening the knowledgeable." Mistranslated verse # 3 "The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people. In it are clear signs the station/persistence of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone." Again, it is not "shrine", which has pagan connotations, but "house/sanctuary". It is not "most important", but the arabic word is "awwala" meaning "first". The correct translation would be 396-97 That (the) first House/Sanctuary was raised to the people, (is) which (is) with (in) Bakka , blessed and guidance, to the worlds/all beings. In it (are) signs/verses (in) Abraham's place/position/station, and who entered it, was/is/became safe/secure, and to God on the people performing hajj/debate/conference of the House/Sanctuary who was/is able (to find) a way/method to it, and who disbelieved, so that God (is) rich from (not in need of) the worlds/all beings.

Thats probably true, the "son" being metaphorical than spiritual. Maybe its a metaphor for Christ being gods highest angel after lucifers fall. Or maye hey just took the prophet thing one step too far? Did not Jesus say "I am the Way, I am the Truth and Life, No one can come to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him." John 146-7 I see it both as a spiritual AND metaphorical title, not a literal one. We are all children of God because we believe in Em, but it is not that we are begotten from Em. And Lord Jesus calling Himself the Son of God is a spiritual title of Prophethood. Lord Baha'u'llah is termed the "Glory/Splendour/Brilliance/Beauty of God." It is a spiritual title also. And Lord Muhammad is the "Praised One" of God, although God alone is worthy of Praise and is the Most Glorious. Lord Abraham was the "Father of the Nations." He was both a spiritual and literal father of many peoples, even though there is only one Parent in Heaven. PS I just noticed that the older bible versions, such as the KJV, Darby and DRV have "begotten" in the translation... the textus receptus used must have been doctored or something, lol. And yes, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael. lol