General Issues / Questions

Peace Supernaut n all, Peace, Jewish immigrants from all over the world started settling in Palestine early in the twentieth century. These immigrants were tolerated upto a point, but then the Palestinians became hostile towards them. The Jewish people living in Palestine fought a war with the Palestinians and other Arab states, and then finally, the state of Israel was established. First, I would suggest we look further into this claim. I'm no expert, by no means in this subject, but lets clarify what you're talking about, if you can back it up, I would appreciate it. You say that Palestinians became hostile against the jews first, and then the jews fought a war with Palestinians? ??? Please explain. Personally, I think that the establishment of Israel was a murderous, horrible and oppressive crime against the Palestinians, but I don't think that today's Israelis (most of whom are third generation Israelis) should have to suffer the consequences of the crimes of their forefathers. Your reasoning here is flawed. Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting malice on your part, I'm just trying to understand your conclusion. You agree about the establishment of this murderous tyranny and oppression, yet you say, that since it's 3 generations ago, they should forgive and forget. 2 things... (1) There are people still alive from the 60s war, should they forget that their families were killed unjustly? (2) You make it sound like their all living righteously and in peace NOW! They're STILL a muderous and terroristic regime! I believe Layth and others have pointed out to you in what quran says. Quran is quite clear in regard to oppression and tyranny. However, IMO, I don't think the 'one state' solution will ever work. Most of he Palestinians are fighting (with words or their lives) right now for a right to live. Some of their methods, I may not agree with, but to even suggest that the Palestinians are partly the cause, is absurd. Again, let's look at the history in the past half century or even a hundred years and perhaps that will clear out some misconceptions. Example... It is impossible to turn back time, and believe it or not, most Israelis live in complete ignorance about Palestinians - they are raised to believe that Palestinians came (from Egypt) and took THEIR land - which at first they were happy to share - but then the Palestinians got greedy and started fighting for more! Sad. And that type ignorance is prevalent all over the world as well, not just with Israelis. Peace

Salam Tay, Right. Thanks again for the jam. I find it unfortunate that these jams tend to end in "Free-Minds" style (coffee house analogy) without much progression or much trace of individuality. But just as the title of the thread suggests, it's food for thought. Is the illusion of peace equal to the reality of peace? Lets put this in another way, maybe it'll help it along here. Is the illusion of peace equal to the reality of peace for an individual? Peace

Peace Brother Arnold, Thank you for the links. I will refer to them. And as a side note, after I read another post here (re tomb of Jesus), it occurred to me why it is important to prove the authenticity of the Qur'an. Not to say that I totally get it now, but I definitely now see at least one reason why it's important. Thanks again. Peace, lilyfleur

I thought you said they deny this, so I was curious to what they perceive.. they deny wen you reason with them, and finally they deny to themselves by performing makeups on themselves.

Maybe in a country with such a sexual society like USA, the constant seductions around you could possibly drive you nuts yup, that explains it all.

salam alaikum maxq, Thank-you for your attention and response. This made me look up the link to your blogspot and its links. I have discovered more valuable references. Mer?i! adjwi

Peace and welcome, Munshi, You asked The big question is WHY? I believe siki has steered you in the right direction by asking "Why do we create?". I would offer the same advice that I offered one of the brightest people I've ever met online One avenue I'd explore (and have been exploring) is love and it's branches - humility, compassion, beauty, art, etc. - not in the vain sense, but as concepts, as driving energies... Following logic will not tell you "why" you exist, only that you do. In order to find the "why", you need to look beyond logic, beyond thoughts, beyond consciousness... People spend their entire lives embarked upon spiritual journeys trying to find "why". You won't find the answer here locked into circular logical debates. This question has been asked in different forms by just about everyone. Here's the link to the thread from which I quoted, which, if nothing else, will provide plenty of food for thought... http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8696.0 Peace, Tay

Salam, I must say to argue over what is modest or not is kind of silly because it's same as argue what is delicious to eat or not. It differs from person to person and from country and from culture and from time. That must be the reason why God has it so open in Quran. And I agree with Tanver who said that we shall not do things just to please God, instead we shall do it for our own good(best). I mean are God really order us to anything in Quran? if He does He must then likely contradict himselfs, when he points out that there are no compulsions in Islam. When shall we realize that we create our own lives with guidelines from God NOT compulsions and forceful deeds to please Him. And remember that advice of low down your gaze in Quran, it's very good, it have help me many times when I have felt shy and uncomfortable. God will help us not make our lives difficult!!! Peace Sis Majidah

Thanks sooooooooooooooooooooooo much for your kinds words people! jedi The poll's been updated.

Peace "siki", As i said even if GOD wld not know every choice wed make, the choice we make occurs because particles came into a certain position because ccertain other particles pushed them in acertain position who were again pushed by other one etc to infinity. This is called causality. The particles dont just change their direction without any force acting on it, thts my pt. So even if GOD doesnt know certain things wed do it doesnt mean we have real free will which is logically non existent. Now as for hell i agree with you and bro Edip has written an article on this tht hell aint eternal according to the Quran. You may have read tht before. GOD Bless!

One more thing I dont belive Jesus is divine.

But first 'Quranic Believers' need to agree on what 'the truth of Islam is' first before they even begin to do such things, if they present themselves in dischord then it will not be such a good thing. This is something that Ahl us-Sunnah have over Qur'an aloners, regardless of what one's opinion is, there is a remarkable fluke in unity and consolidating the lesser differences in opinion (Madhabs) and in their practise of consensus no-matter how flawed it may be. And are you impying that negative media and discrimination of Muslims is the fault of 'Suunis' and 'Shias'??? Who are the true Muslims, strict Qur'an Aloners? Qur'an Firsters who use Hadith for Context? 19'ers? You see the sects are already there to add upon, Sunni, Shia, 12'ers, Zaydis etc... Perhaps it would be better simply to call oneself a 'Muslim' as specified in the Qur'an and then by the proportionality of Muslims who have Qur'an Alone beliefs, the practise of Islam changes. But please beware, lest you turn yourself into the thing that you despise, a sectarian who thinks of others in such a low manner as to know that the predujice directed at others is their fault. Salam Al-Quraishi~ I agree, we would need to be in unification of what we believe in order to clarify what we feel the true islam is. Let me clarify, I do not call myself by a sect, I call myself a muslim,and follow the Quran. I only said Quranic Belivers, because some people call themselves by this name, and I was making a relation to them. Anyhow, I am sorry to offend you, but yes I do believe the negative connotations assoicated with Islam and Muslims, are due to sects like sunnis and shias, it is their direct beliefs in conjecture, that cause some of them to commit acts of tyranny. NOT all sunni and shias are bad, but their sect beliefs I believe are far from the path. In order to define my opinion of the true islam I would need to be very specific, which to be honest, I don't want to get into, this is not about my opinion as of yet, nor is it about my belief in Islam. I was only stating that CBS, being a nationally syndicated Broadcast, by Americans, is likely to avoid beliefs about the majority of us in this forum, because conspiratorally speaking, American Government and Media, like to propagate false ideologies of muslims, and make them a mock example of fanatiscm, Thats why It was second opinion, that that is exactly why we need to be on that show or OPB, preferably. Anyhow I agree with what you were saying. I just am not on this forum for debates, as some seem to be. I am only here to find commonality. Honor

Salam~ Thank you for your prayers Sabboushi, I appreciate it. I need them, so it means alot. Ayman, thank you for all your knowledge in this matter, anytime you can share a post would be great, I haven't seen you on this forum much. Its nice to have your input. sun Honor

lol Yes, it was in fact my extreme agitation to his complete mistranslation of an Arabic word... brickwall

Peace Nadeem. I think you do understand my point of view very well, its just that I would say that there is no proof of more than one God - which can be said to be becuase there are no other gods to have any proof for their existence. Hello Natu, Basically what you are saying is this Without god nothing would exist, therefore since something does exist there has to be atleast one god. However, there exists no proof of more than one god. So to conclude More than or less than god is false, whilst one god is logical. Do I understand you properly? Nadeem

honor I believe in one god and only one God, and muhammad was his last prophet. However now when I recite shadaha, now being a quaranic only believer, during the salaat prayer, before making another Rukah, I say the shadaha, as in I believe in one god and only one God, and he is the God of the worlds. I believe in one God and only one God is the statement of faith and is from the begining. stating Muhammad Rasool Allah is statement of fact. Allah is one and Musa is Kaleem allah Allah Is One and Essa is Rooh Allah Allah is one and Ibraheem is Khalil Allah Allah is One and Muhammad is his servant and Rasool Therefore Allah is One is the statement of faith and is forever. These all are his messangers and servants and chosen one's is statement of fact. Moreover I don't see any need to utter this from my mouth to satisfy myself from time to time.

peace What is destiny?I find it hard to believe that everything that happens has already been planned out for us.But everything has a cause and effect, is that destiny? What are your thoughts on this? Peace. I don't think that everything has been planned. I mean, after The Exalted God Almighty created us, He alone knew how each human being will work, what will we say, how will we live and everything else, right? But, all the choices were made by us, we decided to do this and that and because of those choices, we see effects. We planned something, we did it and saw the effect. For example i'm planning to go have a second dinner now. I will go to the kitchen and make food, consume it and feel good, right? But what if i decided to go to the hospital instead and have my stomach removed and my mouth sealed? Wouldn't i destroy the destiny? I mean, if it was planned for me to go to the kitchen and eat, how will this destiny exist, if i remove the most important elements in the destiny? By removing my stomach and having my mouth sealed, how will destiny be fullfilled, if i won't be able to eat? The Exalted God Almighty gave us something ver precious here free choice. We can decide what to do, we are not some machines, programmed to react because of the installed programme. Of course, The Exalted God Most Powerful knows best. Peace.

I gave this some more thought but the thing is. Im not against scientology. All cults get money from their members, scientology has just taken this practice into the 21th century and made it a business transaction like if youre buying milk. all cults have some pretty shady business models at the core of it, and all cults work at some level on deceit. But my point is, if the scientologer think he got his moneys worth, then who am i to complain? My sister use fortunes on gucci etc...i think its crackpot to pay so much money for ugly clothes with a brand name, but she gets her money worth so she is happy. My brother goes on the binge often with his mates, i think thats foolish, but he gets his moneys worth so he is happy. My dad just bought a pen for the sum of 1000$. I think thats insane. But he got his moneys worth and is happy with the transaction. So if a scientologist pays money for lowlevel freudian psycho analysis mixed with a little scifi and guru meditation and think that he gets his moneys worth. Thats should be good enough for the rest of us. he is happy, why arent we? The cult has casualites behing it. All cults have, and alcohol is by far a larger killer than anything else known, but i dont see anyone parading outside the booze factories because of the insanity of legalised and encouraged poison pushing. I dont see anyone mach outside mattel's buildings for barbie that damaged whole generations of girls self worth and properbly their health aswell as the plastic contains phlaphlalates that are a destroyer of hormones. If you want to give your money away to hubbard.....great, i hope it works out for you. But my personal oppinion is that he was a liar, charlatan,fruitcake, insane mentally deranged and suffering from severe megalomania. So i dont want to give him money or listen to him for too long at a time. Best wishes.

Someone on this board i think it was, wrote this, and it stuck with me. (sorry if i quote incorrectly tho) be prepared to give up that which you love the most for Gods sake, like Abraham was Use your head and figure it out for yourself, like Abraham did be patient like Moses Be giving like Jesus etc... if someone know the correct quotations put it here, because it really fits well Best wishes.

Peace, I'm glad you enjoyed it Jankren. Yes, they all died at fairly young ages. My mom "found" God about a year before she passed away. I wish I could have shared Islam with her but I didn't discover it until she was already gone. She would have a made a kick-butt Muslim angel ! peace