General Issues / Questions

O nice. Thanks for the link.

There are many paths to God as there are stars in the Universe. Peace LoteTree... your opinion is confirmed by Quran... And for every Ummah (a community or a nation), there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. 1047 To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your god is One God submit then your wills to Him and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves, 2234 To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. 2267

well yeah my face cus haha its always red .. i also have rosacea.. now u guys know what i go through !!!

Well, 300 years later the damage was already done and then it just got worst when the church became a part of Roman politics. Corruption happened almost immediatly after the disappearence of Jesus starting with Paul of Tarsus who claimed to have had a vision of Jesus. Now instead of going and learning the teachings of Jesus , he went to Arabia, then came back again to Damascus (Galatians 117). Only after three years did he make his return to Jerusalem, where he spent only fifteen days with Peter, and had a brief encounter with James. Paul rarely ever mentioned the teachings of Jesus. He did not seem to care about "his followers or political leanings...never cited the companions trained by Jesus as authorities for any of his facts or doctrines (Maqsood 107)." Rather, he talked about Christ, the Risen Lord. He preferred to preach the message which he received in his vision. "Knowledge of the historical Jesus was actually irrelevant to him (Maqsood 86)." Maqsood, Ruqaiyyah. A Muslim Study of the Origins of the Christian Church. Karachi Oxford University Press, 2000. Peace Riz, Wow I didnt know some of that info,and never thought about Paul doing that..Great info... Peace

Sakaran 1667 Wamin thamarati alnnakheeli waal-aAAnabi tattakhithoona minhu sakaran warizqan hasanan inna fee thalika laayatan liqawmin yaAAqiloona YUSUFALI And from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine, ye get out wholesome drink and food behold, in this also is a sign for those who are wise. PICKTHAL And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who have sense. Alkhamri 2219 Yas-aloonaka AAani alkhamri waalmaysiri qul feehima ithmun kabeerun wamanafiAAu lilnnasi wa-ithmuhuma akbaru min nafAAihima wayas-aloonaka matha yunfiqoona quli alAAafwa kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakumu al-ayati laAAallakum tatafakkaroona YUSUFALI They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs In order that ye may consider- PICKTHAL They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect. alkhamru/alkhamri 590-91 90. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo innama alkhamru waalmaysiru waal-ansabu waal-azlamu rijsun min AAamali alshshaytani faijtaniboohu laAAallakum tuflihoona Innama yureedu alshshaytanu an yooqiAAa baynakumu alAAadawata waalbaghdaa fee alkhamri waalmaysiri wayasuddakum AAan thikri Allahi waAAani alssalati fahal antum muntahoona 90.YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. 90.PICKTHAL O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. 91.YUSUFALI Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer will ye not then abstain? 91.PICKTHAL Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done? Sakaran and alkhamru/alkhamri cant be talking about the same thing..1667 uses sakaran and speaks of getting drink and food that is good for you,read 1665-69,God speaks of things created for our benefit.....but 590-91 uses a alkhamru/alkhamri and the context is speaking of things we should avoid,see also 592-93. From the 2 surahs and ayats I believe 2 things are being spoke of one sakaran is not intoxicants,its wholesome drink that is for our benefit and alkhamru/alkhamri is drink that has been fermented into intoxicating drink that even though it may have some health benefits its bad effects outway those of its good and should be avoided,especially since the satan uses it against us.. khamrin 4715 Mathalu aljannati allatee wuAAida almuttaqoona feeha anharun min ma-in ghayri asinin waanharun min labanin lam yataghayyar taAAmuhu waanharun min khamrin laththatin lilshsharibeena waanharun min AAasalin musaffan walahum feeha min kulli alththamarati wamaghfiratun min rabbihim kaman huwa khalidun fee alnnari wasuqoo maan hameeman faqattaAAa amAAaahum YUSUFALI (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)? PICKTHAL A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels? Wine/khamrin will be allowed in Paradise..see these,they speak of a pure wine that will be drink in Paradise. 7621 AAaliyahum thiyabu sundusin khudrun wa-istabraqun wahulloo asawira min fiddatin wasaqahum rabbuhum sharaban tahooran YUSUFALI Upon them will be green Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, and they will be adorned with Bracelets of silver; and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine Pure and Holy. PICKTHAL Their raiment will be fine green silk and gold embroidery. Bracelets of silver will they wear. Their Lord will slake their thirst with a pure drink. SHAKIR Upon them shall be garments of fine green silk and thick silk interwoven with gold, and they shall be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord shall make them drink a pure drink. What does kafur mean,besides wine? 7605 Inna al-abrara yashraboona min ka/sin kana mizajuha kafooran YUSUFALI As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup(of Wine) mixed with Kafur,- PICKTHAL Lo! the righteous shall drink of a cup whereof the mixture is of Kafur, SHAKIR Surely the righteous shall drink of a cup the admixture of which is camphor Whats the word here translated into pure wine/pure drink?Does it mean drink or something else? 8325 Yusqawna min raheeqin makhtoomin YUSUFALI Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed PICKTHAL They are given to drink of a pure wine, sealed, SHAKIR They are made to quaff of a pure drink that is sealed (to others).

bmbmm wrote... Peace peace -)

Peace phoenix1. Now that post makes a lot of sense.Wise words. Thank you. ) Peace all.

Perhaps Elena can clear this up.... I was asking about the three examples idolfree had given, but I can understand he could refer to others too because he had also said 'and many others' A LAW has already effected them from the culture they were born into../.. Just like joined twins and the like, you cant expect them to be able to follow the same physical disciplines as a healthy human. Likewise, hermaphrodites are SIGNS of incorrect behavior, as are all perversions, like blindness, and many others.

Muhammad have done a great job in delivering the message of God. He was chosen by God to do this great task, but it also great if we successfully maintain this great message in our life and to other people. If Muhammad were alive today, he would say "Please do your job to deliver Quran, not praising me." Yes... 100% agree... job well done Muhammad! Sadly he has been 'severely abused' with fabricated 'stories' / 'gossip' falsely attributed to his name... By reading the 'fabricated stories' we now have The dog hating Muhammad The killing machine Muhammad The oft swearing by God name Muhammad Hajar Aswad kisser Muhammad The illiterate Muhammad Salam / Peace

peace. If people start talking french(when they do not know french) then obviously the jinn(life forms,souls) must have some power,and some form of posession must be real. There also is probably an art to releasing the jinn. I think claurianta is correct that certain practices may be discouraged(eg healing,beneficial magik etc..) because of not fully understanding them. I just think care should be undertaken to proceed with these things and a good understanding gained before using them. Like a 'medical trial' or conference on beneficial magic. Esp and intuition are senses which 'science' may not fully understand,but if used sensibly(and not excessively) they can work.Same with healing arts and natural herbs. Peace.

Maybe animals were sent here as a punishment, like humans, but their crime was less than ours, so once they die they will end up in heaven. This world is afterall a punishment for many animals having to face eachother and worst of all, humans and their destructive living... However, I really cannot back this speculation up with any information... Ulf

Peace Oben, I think somewhere between the first and second. In many cases this is still ignored but just occasionally it will be scoffed at when the futile arguments against it fail. I agree, I've read in some places that some people are actively rooting this 'movement' out by harrassing people who believe in it amongst other things...but it's not widespread and could conceiveably be them just harrassing people with a different 'faith' and not targeted towards a 'movement' in general. The people who this appeals to are people who've already believed in the reading as truth. The people it appeals to are chiefly, though not exclusively, existing muslims. And they and many others who are searching for a "religion" are looking for doctrines and rituals. Indeed, or we get stuck on the issue of 'Is it really from God and how do we know?!?!", which is not just a 'quran alone' question...it's just a general question that can be debated with any book of any faith on any 'religious' forum for example, why it pops up so often here is beyond me. In either case, I think you are very right in the statement that the appeal is to those who've already believed in the reading as truth. The last statement however, leads me to more observations on the motivations for some. In a few cases, it could be a way out for people to 'do' what they want and using the verses to justify it, or talking about the 'spirit' rather than what it says (which can give rise to seeing what you want)...There are some 'kids' that I've personally witnessed claiming...oooh no prohibition on alcohol!! Sw33t!! (My younger bro's uni students, with whom I had some success, apparently maybe too much). It takes a steady mind to take in all of the pieces and keep putting it together, not just looking for justification in verses to what people want it to mean. That's very difficult, nigh impossible, as subjectivity and bias will come in or 'youthful enthusiasm' as I just mentioned, amongst other motivations. That's imo one of the trickiest parts to it all. Not just the doctrine and ritual seekers. I suppose it's every man for himself here, that further undermines the idea of a 'movement'. They want to be spoonfed a package of things that is well thought out. The biggest problem in my view is that the people who believe in the truth of following the God alone are still beholden to the package of rituals they believe the reading instructs them on. I remember talking to Zein and Damon about this a year back. I was so giddy with having found this place and all geared up to 'take it to the masses' as it were and all our problems will be solved, or a great many of them...but I came across what I consider the biggest, that of the 'elusive and flitting, as seen fit, meanings of verses' or 'why the hell do we have so many translations some not worthy to be seen let alone heard?' Surely if everyone bases their stand on the quran alone, we will all be united? It seems I was wrong. Some would say 'unity in diversity' and all that...seems very nice but I for one would not mind having just the unity, leaving aside the diversity that seems to further divide us. Why can't we all just be united on at least some basic truths? Leave the rest to people to figure out for their own. I can see people calling not just to the quran but pushing their own pills with it. On another note, some say, "why the quran eh? I thought you guys were God alone...so what's this quran alone thingy? Leave it off you hypocrites!!". I would like to remind them, if they are reading, the purpose of the forum. It's God alone based on the quran believed to be truth. This is not the place to advocate flinging oneself to the mercy of the four winds. If one wanted to do that, I doubt many would come here for the sake of pursuing serious discussion based on the quran, which sadly is lacking on the forum these days. I don't believe the answer is to replace a package with another one, but rather to believe in what is firm and trust that whatever else we need to know will come. The way of Abraham was to discover the God through rational thought about the world around one and a search within for truth. To lead a righteous life and not surrender to anything but the the supreme Lordship of the God. I agree completely.

Peace A tradition does not equal something that is wrong in my opinion. It may be wrong to say that hijab is what God has said is modest or that it is a needed article of clothing to attain to modesty. Depending on the context in which it is worn it could be either. wouldn't it be immodest to have been wearing hijab then taking it off? I do not think so. It may be a little hypocritical. Joe

The most important thing is dont be NATO(No Action Talk Only) guys!! wink

Peace 5343 And He is the One who makes laughter and tears. Laughter is fine...just not at the expense of others 4911 O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.

I don't think this is a good idea... just adding fuel to the fire. Perhaps that is exactly what is needed to awaken the Traditionalist Muslim World from the sleep of ignorance. Just as Salman Rushdie affair made many muslims examine their own conscious and look at religion in more a investigative way. So this could be in the long run a start of something better...sometimes when your own house is rotten it is right to say it is rotten so that it can be demolised and rebuilt with better foundation...Traditional Islam has become rotten to the core. The time has come to uproot it from the ground and start again... Regards,

Oh ya I am a monkey now, since you know better about science. Dear Doctor I think you missed the joke in my comments. The 100% match between apes and human suggests that we have shared same ancestor in the past. This indeed does make a "monkey" out of us wink -) Molecular studies shows that all life forms on Earth share a common ancestor. Even the leading creation scientist Dr Micheal Behe (his a biochemist) agrees with this view. Regards,

3444 We did not give them any scripture to study, nor sent any warner before you. I always think, according to the above, not warner was ever sent to the Arabs. So by saying that the Kabba etc etc was built by Abraham is not true. Peace

Peace, Some people believe that the togetherness of a group of believers is ensured by having common rituals and a common focal point to turn to ie. a point on the earth. This creates a "holy" place here and there and people begin to reverence things other than the God and associate things that should not be associated. Rather than these man made doctrines and symbols of togetherness here is the right way to ensure togetherness... Hold on firmly together to the rope of God, and be not divided among yourselves... And that rope is not a physical one that connects us to the God's support - it is a figurative rope that we hold to. By acting righteously and helping and supporting one another is how we keep a firm hold on that rope. Nothing physical and earthly can help one in this sense. Regards. Are you referring to a certain black cube by any chance? This is actually a rather difficult question to examine. The Koran does refer to the House built by Abraham which I believe is located on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. I believe that there, and at other locations around this globe of ours there are points that have a sort of energy that can be very beneficial in our quest to clean our nafs and in giving us strength of conviction. That is not to say that these places are 'holy' in the sense that God is holy, or that we should worship these places. They are tools given us to by God, rather than things worthy of worship in their own right. There is also another element that must be considered in the light of the hajj, which I believe is important not for the location, but for the gathering. In gathering for the right reasons, we are able to create together a similar sort of energy that can help each of us clean our nafs and to experience the unity of humankind. But again, this is a tool that has been given to us... just like in any other human endeavour, we can accomplish more together than we can all alone. So yes, I do believe there is a sort of energy at Mecca that has been created by everyone focusing their prayers in that direction, and that this can all be very beneficial - it creates a common connection. However, we must realize why is it that we are doing this and not resort to worshiping or exalting the focal point itself. It is like the difference between realizing that Muhammad was a great man (but still only a man like all of us) and brought us the Koran on one hand, and worshiping him on the other. It is about realizing the reality of the situation and using for bettering ourselves and this world of ours instead of creating false idols for ourselves.

No one save God has a right to judge how good or bad we are in this life or in the next. Of course we are allowed to punish crimes committed against us in this life, in accordance with the limits set out in the Koran - society in this life could not operate without such norms - but whatever crimes a person commits does not mean he is good or bad... that ultimate judgment is not ours to make. Therefore it is very pretentious of a human to pretend that he will have a stranglehold over another in another life.