Salat & Zakat

Salaam Bigmo, if we make any source other than the Quran as binding than we really can't say we are Quranist as that defeats the whole purpose. It also breaks away the unity. We don't have to... 2278 2278 And strive in the cause of Allah its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you Muslims from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold the bond and contribute towards purification and hold tight to Allah, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.

U really thinking i don't know what does mean ASR in arabic, been to school, , read these 2 sentences i sent u , been there , a year at echool studing ASR HADJARI AND ASR ENNAHDA ASR means Time or Era or Epoch , ask any arab speaking person, and actually u need a dictionnary , before accusing me of inventing the meaning of the word Asr He is having a geometry box do you have?

Basic perception infolded in the Root is frequent moving over an area-place. is a place for moving about. is a night watchman, who keeps moving in a locality to guard. In the light of the relationships inherent and perceived from this Root the word denotes a fraternity-homogenous group/circle of people who share common values. The word "circling", on the contrary, denotes moving following a curving route which is not inherent in the said Root.

Type in "zulfa" into the forum search function. About 10 discussions come up. Thanx man !

Shoes are not allowed in any mosque I know so they obviously all ignore that one and have decided prayer is barefoot over time. You also should know that mosques are made of carpets nowerdays and it would be very improper to walk with your shoes over carpets. You can pray bare foot on the ground if you want, I do it at home sometimes.

Peace Mazhar, One can remember the god without understanding the god. We can understand a little bit by remembering and keeping in mind the attributes he told us about himself. You can remember that we will all eventually die but you don't understand death. Remembering helps us understand. But understanding is a deeper level than just remembering. If you remember correctly than you will gradually reach a better understanding. Reminders are hints that help us understand better. They are not understanding. To understand a little bit better you need to connect a lot of reminders together. Peace, Ayman Peace Ayman, "Zikr" its basic/primary perception-meaning is to save. Nothing can be saved in long term memory until you have reached some level of perception/understanding whereafter one will be able to recall/retrieve it from the memory which is termed as rememberance.

Peace again "Badr", Pffffffff ! JK- Nothing to say. The reality is very much so. People who follow hadith want to emulate Muhammad down to how he dressed, ate, urinated, etc etc. Ridiculous in our understanidng. This is my favorite who goes on war against muslims now? JK- But this is in self defense isnt it after "muslims" have continuously killed people just for preaching their religion, especially CHristinity, in their contries. People cant take that forever. And whilst i don't agree to cause collateral damage absolutely agree in fighting those Mullahs who make laws to mke women wear head scarfs, force them to obey their husbands with exception of violations against sharia elements, killing apostates, stoning married adulterers etc etc coz all these are an attack on humanity in general. The Hajj is clearely stated in the Quran and especially the circling that you claim beign a superstition ?And when We assigned for Abraham the place of the House, saying ?Do not associate Anything with Me, and purify My House for those who go around it and for those who stand and bow and prostrate themselves in worship. And proclaim the Pilgrimage among humankind They will come to you on foot and on every camel made lean By traveling deep, distant ravines.?? (Quran 2226-27) The Holy Kaaba is the house of God as it is said in the Quran Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, a maintenance for the people, and the sacred month and the offerings and the sacrificial animals with garlands; this is that you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and that Allah is the Knower of all things. (Quran 5 So according to you (who believe in the words of the Quran) ; those who go around the Holy Kaaba wich is the sacred house, the House (of god) as commanded in the Quran are superstitious ? JK- "Twf" can mean just "to visit" not necessarily go around. But for this you should read detailed articles on Hajj on the main site first to at least understand our view. 7 as the layers of the sky JK- As quantified by us currently, though there are more sublayers now if you imply the atmosphere. There is no evidence for 7 smawaat as yet. 7 as the scales in music JK- This has been standardized by us humans. It's not necessarily so. Look up scales of music here http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_scales#Scales_in_Western_music http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_scales 7 as the necessary months to the foetus to become a viable baby JK- One event selected out of alarge no of possble events in the cosmos. 7 as the types of stars classified by luminosity JK- Same as above. 7 as the days of the week JK- Man made possibly first set by Jews from the OT Bible. 7 as the periods of the periodic table JK- Another event taken out of many possible events and given significance. ???? you trippin right here. Anyone is free to use the count that fits him best. Maybe you get confused but this is very clear for those who use it. Next argument will be "why don't Sunni celebrate Halloween?" ? "Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein." (Quran 2186) Why do you need to witness the month if it's already decided ? Clearly, it's by witnessing the first moon so the moon decide the months. JK- I agree with you we vary on this issue. HOWEVER as I've said there's ongoing debate as to what Ramadan might mean and we're not sure as yet. At least I'm not. Circumcision for males have been proven to highly reduces the risk of sexual ilnesses, this is even not a subject to discuss atheists get circumcised nowerdays. JK- WRONG there is huge controversy in the scientific community regarding this. Checkout http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfPajxmfbE&feature=related and google "circumcision aids fraud". I know the hadeeth is not a reliable source for you but gold and silk are forbidden by a hadeeth. JK- Yes they are but we say this prohibition is absurd. Do you think muslims are happy with it ? Do you still think Saudi are a reference when it comes to Islam ? they're not. You also better stop thinking they are perfect example of muslims, islam aint a vaccine for stupidity, if you are stupid you'll be a stupid muslim and if you are wise you'll be a wise muslim. JK- IT IS according to the "scholars" in saudi arabia who have studied hadith literature just like your "imams". Now by your logic hadith scholars in mecca should be more knowledgable since they are closer to the birth place of Muhammad IYU, rnt they plus they study intensively hadith. ALSO the Prophet said in one hadith that LEADERS will come from the Quraish tribe Volume 9, Book 89, Number 329 Narrated Jabir bin Samura I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish." So if anywhere is a true Muslim ruler, he should be in the heartland of sunni/shia "islam". GOD Bless!

salaam Salat two time a day ,read and understand quran alone or with family Salat fajhar(quran fajhar) and salat esha 17/78. 0ne hr morning(salat fajhar) and one hr evning(salat esha),mohammad (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) teach quran these time to mumneens and others,these two time of gethering called salat fajar and salat esha,mortal enemy of islam replaced quran in salat with rakat namaaz,so afterthat teaching and learning of quran finished and worship of allah start in the form of salat(s time namaaz)

Thanks Progressive1993 for those articles. These are certainly ideas worth consideration and I'll keep them in mind until certainty comes to me, God willing. http//www.free-minds.org/zakat http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598902.0

Articles can be found here http//www.scribd.com/ahadith_studies

Peace Abdelilah, Today I read it... and I'm glad I did. The reason it took me so long is because I thought I never would understand it with my limited knowledge of Arabic. Nothing was more untrue. Style The article is well organized, to the point, very powerful and easy to read. Content It examines almost everything; function, timing, the "middle" salaat, the "friday" salaat, SJD etc. I really like how it starts by looking at functionality to define the meaning. Always cross-referencing. Note Everyone knows these expressions "allahuma salli 3ala" / "salla allah 3alayh". If you don't really know what it means or if we should say it or not, read this article. It's really convincing, especially more so in Arabic. For me personally one of the main arguments why "salaat" in the clear book can never mean "ritual prayer". Thank you for your kind evaluation. I agree that in Arabic the arguments are even more compelling and surprisingly easy to understand even for those who know limited Arabic. Peace, Ayman

it appears that there is 2 rakaa, in the verse where they were at war, people shirtened, the prophet prayed one rakaa with one group than when done with sajda went back and the other group come for the 2nd rakaa of the prophet abrahem purified the house for people , u see them standing bowing prostratin another verse speak of companion, it says 'u see them bowing prostrating"

Thanks everyone, I'm clear on this point now. handshake

peace to all Behold Joseph said to his father "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon I saw them prostrate themselves to me!" 124 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity) and they fell (KHARRU) down in prostration (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfillment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom. 12100 This is a physical prostration by a father prophet to a son prophet, except as a token of acceptance of his greatness. Allah it is who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and (MADE) the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord. 132 The sun and the moon are His creation and they are subjected to mankind, therefore they cannot be gods. They themselves submit to God Ah woe that Day to the Rejecters of Truth! 7745 (O ye Unjust!) Eat ye and enjoy yourselves (but) a little while for that ye are Sinners 7746 Ah woe that Day to the Rejecters of Truth! 7747 And when it is said to them "PROSTRATE yourselves!" They do not so 7748 Ah woe that Day to the Rejecters of truth! 7749 Then what Message after that will they believe in? 7750 Kafir physically prostrate to various gods, but in the above verse they do not. They are the rejectors of truth (Quran, Qiyamah etc.). Therefore prostration is symbolic and it is submission Rather prostrate yourselves before Allah and serve Him.5362 Serving comes only after prostration, How? Without submission it is not possible But hymn the praise of thy Lord, and be of those who make prostration (unto Him). 1598 And serve thy Lord until there come unto thee the Hour that is Certain. 1599 Again the same thing. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward. 4829 No one seeks His Bounties and His Pleasures while in physical prostration, but only after fully submitting to Him. Hast thou seen HIM who dissuadeth A slave when he prayeth? Hast thou seen if HE (relieth) on the guidance (of Allah) Or enjoineth piety? Hast thou seen if HE denieth (Allah's guidance) and is froward? Is HE then unaware that Allah seeth? Nay, but if HE cease not, We will seize HIM by the forelock-- The lying, sinful forelock-- Then let HIM call upon his henchmen! We will call the guards of hell. Nay! Obey not thou HIM. But PROSTRATE thyself, and draw near (unto Allah). 969 TO 19 Obeying the above man is equal to the Prostration to God. So it cannot be physical prostration, but submission (obey) to God. Hoopoe was with Prophet Solomon and he knew whom and how he served God. He never prostrated physically like we Muslims do otherwise why hoopoe will inform Prophet Solomon that they were prostrating the Sun and the Moon. This time he saw a different thing and therefore relayed the news to the Prophet.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0

Peace, And Salat is the method/mission/programming that enables the worker bee to do its tasks (tasbih) mentioned above. When we approach the concept of salat, we should not see it as black and white (either Ritual prayer or nothing at all). To believe that salat is Ritual prayer, is like looking at one little cloud while ignoring the whole sky. This is a one-dimensional view. When we approach the concept of salat, we should be concerned with the whole. Salat can be compared to a huge tree. The tree is only one, but it has many branches. Salat can be compared to a tree, while tasbih can be compared to the branches of the tree. Salat is the method for every creature in the universe (2441). Hence, Salat is a Universal concept. From my understanding of the Quran, if we follow our Salat (the purpose of our lives), we will evolve and reach the next stage in the next life. David, i mostly agree with your view on Salat, as i have come to similar conclusions regarding some aspects of Salat. There's just this one thing, apparently a quite important part in your exposition --i don't find your rendering of SbH/tasbiH to be literally accurate. You translated tasbiH as "task". I think this or this will more or less explain what you mean by task, CMIIW. I don't know for sure, but there could be another word in AQ that is more related to this concept, related to obligation/responsibility etc. However, from Lane's sbH entry sibaAHat signifies "coursing along upon water without immersion of oneself" sabH also signifies "the /running/ of a horse" ~yasbaHuwna~ "All (glide/) travel along swiftly, like the swimmer upon the surface of the water" ~yasbaHuw~ "Such a one busies himself in going to and fro" sabHa~ "He occupies himself according to his own judgement/discretion in the accomplishment of his needful affairs" ... We can see that the original concept of sbH is more closer to swimming, gliding, floating, moving swiftly/continuously/gracefully. The pattern here is of a continuous motion or continuous movement--not dropping, falling or drowning, not fluctuating wildly, but instead the one who's in motion is floating/gliding stably and swiftly in his course (e.g. like a swimmer or a running horse). The word "course" for the bird's tasbiH in 2441 is therefore more accurate, though i'd prefer "flow" or something similar, to suggest the "movement" instead of the "path/route" taken. So, if you want to relate this sbH concept to the word "task", then i think the emphasis should be on the continuous/flowing motion through the tasks/deeds/actions (without stopping/breaking the flow e.g. to engage in utterly useless things ~ hmm, talking about procrastination -X ~ of course a good break is always a useful thing when you're feeling stuck, so that could be categorized as "part of the flow" peace. Other examples related to sbH to our rabb/his names--i'm sure you're familiar with these sabbiH Asma rabbika ... fa sabbiH bi Hamdi rabbika ... Just as the birds/bees following their own "flow", we are commanded --for our own sake-- to continuously hold the Asma/names of our Rabb (as guidance/inspiration/reference) through day and night, morning and afternoon etc. Then for us, the tasbiH is in continuously observing, referring to, and applying (or taking lesson/inspiration from) the best names of our Rabb into our daily actions. As for exactly how to practice this--personally i need to investigate these verses more carefully, but i hope you get my point. For example, it could be as simple as observing the name "Sustainer", "originator", then taking inspirations from how some little bit of nature efficiently solves its problems, and then you obtain an idea to solve your own problem. Sounds cliche -[ but really isn't that how science work? For your tree analogy, then, i think its Salat is in the sustenance of its life, while its tasbiH is in every flow/movement happening continuously in its system (transportations, respiratory, syntheses, growth etc). For us, ... quite similar! After all, this concept of continuous/flowing movement pattern will be even more fitting to your view on Salat, imho. What d'you think?

Ayisha Now that is a bulls eye Yes but no BULL laugh http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601114.msg259202#new

peace Same with period! How would my having period make praying "unlawful" for me? Especially if I use tampons? I prayed anyway... Ditto. All those silly man-made restrictions for menstruating women never made any sense to me at all. http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-022.gif

My thoughts are as follows.. Just salat, cause whether you salat X times a day or Y or Z times a day, whenever you miss a salat or did not pray salat righteously, it comes down to that's the amount of faith and wisdom God granted you. Think about it, whether it is X or Z being the number of times a day, wether we pray those times righteously or not is really up to what God has decreed for us. Some submitters are granted with more righteousness than others. Some even have the amount of granted wisdom to read the salat related verses and contexts to know the correct amount of times. Others may not have been granted that much wisdom or faith but will still perform their granted amount of righteous salat in their lifetime. But arguing about the amount of times, when you don't really know, that's dangerous.

?Goodness is not in turning your face to the east or to the west???. The Quran teaches instead that God is always with us and asks us to speak to Him directly ?And if My servants ask about Me?behold I am near, I respond to whoever calls on Me, whenever they call, let them then respond to Me, and believe in Me, so that they may benefit.? ?Successful indeed are the believers, who are sincere in their prayers ?( 231-2). The Quran wants us to know that God is ever present in our lives, and that we can turn to Him at any time to establish prayer. Sincere prayer is not a set of rituals that can become empty and stale over time. God wants our hearts. Sincere prayer is direct communication to God, meditating upon God's omnipotence and mercy, asking God for mercy, praising His presence in our lives...etc. Imposing a set of rituals is compulsion in a format of worship. When the mind is half concentrating on prostrations and rakkats, then prayers become useless, as our whole mind is not involved in our communication with God. The Quran does not prescribe any procedure for prayer. The current form of prayer practiced by so many brothers and sisters are a throwback to pre-Islamic times. It is how the pagans worshipped. This is an example of how Arab culture was infused into religion. Rakkats and prostrations are fine for those who chose to do them, but as they become rote duties to perform, they lose meaning and can damage our relating to God. Alhamdulillah.