Salat & Zakat

pease! Hahaha thanx zenje. well like i said.. there's not like being in the midst of a fasting month and having ur system of beliefs shaken to the core.. You'll see in alot of my posts in the last couple of days that im struggling to grasp what to do with myself ) salaam

Salaam TheNabi, I have been reading all the articles and most of the posts on the Salaat. And i must admit, at first i agreed completely with the views shown here. But the more i read into it, the more i see that it's too extreme of a re-interpertation, and may be based on a misunderstanding of what the traditions hold to be Salaat. Just as the Qur'an describes mankind to be made of non-exclusive ingredients, yet detractors will say "how can mankind be made of clay if in another verse he's made of water". Well its the same here, the prophet performed Salaat in a variety of ways. On many occasions, we are asked to do the minimum, which is it hink what most of you here are advocating with your review of what Salaat is, the bare minimum as described by the Qur'an. But if you do more and extend it, there is no harm in that. As long as you don't fall into the trap of previous Divinely revealed religions who've completly lost their Salaat and relegated it to a single day of the week. That's another thing, the Juma'a prayers are also dissecting on here to be non-necessary and not mentioned. You forget that Muslims are not an individualistic society and are community based, hence the Juma'a prayers are meant to bring communities together at a MINIMUM once a week. Yet many here are undoing the whole concept as innovation.

Understand the Qur'an in its context. If I take Shakespeare out of context, that's doing injustice to his text; I should consider the commentary of those who have more knowledge than me so that I may understand better and my thought process is guided and not all over the place. I have read it, many times over. Why don't you tell me how the context changes things. Show me how my explanation is wrong please. . It is not really their Tafseer. There was a lot of sayings of Muhammad (saw) in regards to the ayaat of Qur'an; so they incorporated that into their understanding of Qur'an. Wonderful. Why dont you show it to me? Show me how it contradicts my understanding? The Sahaba have the best understanding of Qur'an since it was revealed in their time, in front of their eyes. In many occurances was the Qur'an revealed as events were unfolding. Take a look at Surah an-Nasr; that Surah was revealed when the Muslims conquered Mecca. Who would understand an ayah better? A person that saw the event happen and saw the relevancy of the ayah or a person that came 1400 years later and puts mere guesswork upon those ayaat? That is why we follow the statements of the Sahaba I cannot understand al-quraan through SOMEONE ELSE's experience but through my own. It is not irrelevant because if a non-Muslim can prove you wrong, that is pretty sad Huh? Right or wrong doesn't depend on ur family heritage! It depends on your argument. I've read Ignaz Goldziher's 'Muhammadan Studies'. He uttterly unravelled the 'science of hadith' and till now, no 'muslim' has answered him. So what if he's not a sunni? And that was exactly what I was referring to. He is not just another person walking the streets of Mecca. He was the one who has received inspiration from Allah; that's what the ayah confirms. Did you receive any direct divine inspiration? No. The last person that did was Muhammad (saw). Wahi is coming down all the time. The problem is, people don't want to listen It is not fitting for a man that God should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills for He is Most High, Most Wise (42/51) I'm waiting for your response on my challenge. You can't even handle one verse and ur challenging people? Explain 10/15 first then you can start challenging. If you say its miscontextualised, show me how the context changes things.

BUMP (Perhaps we now have a few people who accept physically orientated salat, who may want to help usthrough this discusion)

Peace be upon you Rizwan, I am well, thank you. I hope you are enjoying peace as well. I have been doing a lot of thinking about salaat, I am not far from where we left off however. Please give me your understanding of it at this time.

yay Right! - lets get back to work!

peace Does anybody agree with the quote below Dr Mansour? Why are we God aloners finding it difficult to agree upon salaat? He has written some good articles but i cannot agree with the quote below at the moment. ? Al - Salah is the main aspect of ( Millat Ebraheem) which the Arabs have inherited from their fathers Ebraheem.It is the same prayer we have now in its shape and times, but Muslims in the Abbasy time had changed two things 1- They make instead of which is mentioned in Sura Al Imran- Verse number 18. 2- They make in the travel while it is only in time of war and the real fear. Sura Al Nesaa , verse 101- " me is confused ? peace

peace all, (I say solaa instead of salat btw) does anybody know what the Hebrew equivalent for solaa is? or if any hebrew words share a common root with it? if so are these in the Hebrew Bible and in what verses? thanx There is none of the same root (i.e. tsade - lamad - vav). However, the word "prayer" is the same in Aramaic - c'lo(tha). I have been trying to locate the word in the Targums without any success so far, but I will keep looking. Shalom! /St?phane

peace, all. i began thinking further about this topic, and began thinking about the bible as well. what commitments does it hold? and how do these compare and contrast? that brought me to the 10 commandments. i am not convinced that "salat" is to be translated literally as "commitments" as i have previously stated, but the concept is accurate, i believe. so i thought, "what is an English word that means 'things GOD wants us to do?" that's when i recalled THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. a google search for hebrew meaning of commandments brought lots of pages...here's one or 2 quotes from them And the question I am putting to you is how can we uphold and affirm as a Reform value ? The Commandments, with a Capital C ? The short answer is by means of another word beginning with C ? Commitment. We uphold them because we are committed to them. There are many things in life which we may not be able to subscribe to 100%. We may not like our job but we?re committed ? we?ve signed a contract; we may not agree with everything the State of Israel does but we stand to Israel in the same relationship as to our family and to the Jewish people as a whole. And it is a commitment. It does not have to be an uncritical commitment. But we cannot opt out without denying who we are. I put it to you, the same is true of the Commandments. We may not be able to subscribe to them all, but we are committed to the concept of Commandments, mitzvoth, simply by virtue of being Reform Jews. http//www.mcr-reform.org.uk/A-Z%20sermons/C%20is%20also%20for%20Commandments.htm The word (davar) may better be translated as "order" as in the phrase "And YHWH gave orders to Moses saying". A commanding officer does not speak to his troops. he has formulated his action plans and has determined the best means to have these plans carried out. Once all of this is determined, he gives his "orders" to his troops. These orders are "an ordered arrangement". The phrase "Ten Commandments" does not actually appear in the Hebrew Bible, instead it is aseret hadevariym" and is literally translated as "ten orders". The "Ten Commandments" are our orders from God (the general). They are an ordered arrangement of ideas that if followed will bring about peace and harmony http//www.ancient-hebrew.org/emagazine/002.html these do not verify anything, but they have helped me to feel comfortable with the concept of what commitments are. the word itself is not as important, and i'll continue reading it as commitments, with the understanding that salat falls into the same catagory as commandments, or orders GOD would like us to follow. just my thought for today. peace, brian

Peace harry and welcome to the board ) Please read through the various threads on the subject. There are many different views on salat, check them out and maybe you can also share what you think.

Peace Idris, good job! Anwar Azim

Peace be upon you IDontKNow, Thank you for the complement. The article does need some updating based on new info I have come across, but the idea is still the same. Take a look at this book on this website, very interesting argument put forth, I think you might like it. http//aididsafar.com/

Peace be upon you JM, Can you explain what have convinced you ? "Process" have never seemed cogent to me, it is like "act", it is not very clear. Just a strong argument that finally made sense to me. Nothing more than that. This is why we debate. Just have to be humble enough to admit when you see the truth. And its hard to do when a person you are debating starts to speak down to you. But when seeking the truth you really have no choice.

Peace be upon you , Yes, the word jumah, in every occurence in this reading(quran), means ASSEMBLY. Since the organized religion has thier holy day on Friday where they ASSEMBLE(jumah), they called Friday "jumah". The verse in question is telling us that even when we are in TIMES OF ASSEMBLY, perhaps together with friends, or working overtime selling goods, or just playing X Box with some friends, we need to stop and maintain the PROCESS(salaat) of meditation which is rising above this material/emotional state and purifying our Spirits with the Gods programming. We must have our meeting with the messenger.

Peace be upon you Salikah, Good information! All evidence leads to dawn and dusk being times where the universe stongly effects the physical matter from which we are created. These are times when we are receptive, especially during new and full moons. We are tied to the analogy of farming. And just like farmers, we need to take the time each day to Purify the weeds, so maintain the salaat and bring forth purification! D

eulogy part of slw

Peace be upon you, The verse tells us that there are rites given to each people, there is no indication that they are SEPERATE rights. Its like saying to each people we gave the message to Serve the One God.

peace brother Zlatan, Please provide a full and appropriately referenced translation of the signs in question, with your interpretation in place. Then we can see if it holds or not. Wakas I apologize but i am not in a mood for translating the whole passage.. but anybody can insert the idea in any word for word trans. available and figure out for himself if this hold the water or not... best wishes Zlatan

Salaams, It is and itsn't , depends whose view you are asking about. I wouldn't want my friends or Relatives to waste their precious time like that - i would say. God Bless.

Greetings, So what you are saing that God is asking us to be completely obedient to Muhammad and not God? No. To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God. Please don't change what the quran says. God could have easily said so viz. "To obey Muhammad tantamounts to obey God" if that was God's desire. I think it is wickedness to change the words and promotion of idolatry. Anwar Azim