Salat & Zakat

peace saladin, the verse says "if they(idolators) repent" . that means they are no longer idolators . So you think 'al quran' changes its reference and now wishes them to repent from idolatry rather than the object of reference the treaty? You think the word twb can somehow imply 'repent & convert' even though this meaning is nowhere to be found in a classical Arabic dictionary nor in the 87 occurrences of 'al quran'? You think 'al quran' actually gives an ultimatum in which people either convert or are punished? And not only that, according to your explanation it doesn't even mention it, just implies it, like its no big deal when this strikes at the very core of the deen! You think the suffix "...hum" somehow miraculously refers to the new converts not mentioned in the context, even though you have not provided one example from the entire quran in which this happens. You think its a mere coincidence the so-called converts are never referenced with a word which would prove they are converts, e.g. mumineen/believers. Do you think thieves also convert or is it just this special case? How do you explain the problem of 912? progressing options etc. Instead of making a comment, perhaps one could actually try and provide evidence for such a view. Wakas

Peace all, Are the following Arabic words correct or are there other Arabic words for the English ones? Do "tahir" and "zaka" have the same meaning? Thanks. Charity = Sadaqa (&#1577 Giving = Minha (&#1577 Tax = Dariba (&#1577 Interest = Riba (&#1575, Faida (&#1577 Usury = Riba Fahish ( &#1588 Pure/Purity = Tahir (&#1585 / Tahara (&#1577 Sacrifice = Zabiha (&#1577

peace be upon you idolfree, Peace be upon you, Taking the verses literal is the downfall, please search for the VERIFYABLE LESSON ihn the story, don't look for Large Arks, Mountains with a huge Iron wall between them holding "gog's" and "magog's", don't look for sticks to turn into snakes, etc. Look for the wisdom. what are your views on this sign regarding pharoah's body?

Peace be upon you, The reading (quran) is the knowledge of laws obtained from deep meditation of the Universe/Life. We are to recite this knowledge to others so that they can live a disciplined life according to these principles. Lfes lessons are reveled to us in stages.

And those who stay awake for their Lord, in prostration and standing. (2564) As for one who is meditating in the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord. Say "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess understanding will remember. (399) The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand up to salat, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little. (4142) these three verses also do not fulfil the requirements of my challenge i.e. they are not the verses in which we are ordered or explained to be physicaly erect or standing or stationery while performing the salaat best wishes, Zlatan

Peace be upon you Angel, Lote Tree You are not bad. Never let anyone make you feel bad. You are begining to THINK for yourself as opposed to following rules in blind obedience. You are taking your first steps towards in reclaiming your human dignity! Yes, this is the "Virgin Birth" verified yet again, can you see it!? Mary leaves her family and is seperated by a barrier (The nurturing, pure mind clears her mind from the traditions of family ...following what my fathers followed, etc) This is when the God's divine energy (ruh ul qudus) impregnates you and your WILL is born, your ability to SEE is restored, you are no longer blindly imitating as children are born doing, this is being "born again". This is when you start SEEING and CHOOSING based on OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE (thats why you need to be able to SEE), not blind belief. Congrats on making it to this level. You ever see the movie Matrix? I think you just took the Red pill I hope you reach the Level of UNBREAKEABLE PEACE that we all seek, rather than the Tension of the divided world.

Salaams azzurro, i think you have your belief and i have mine but to me the best and recomanded way to find out what salaat is is to study the context of the the ayah's it accurs in in the quran - or if you stick to your existing belief that is your business . Its like saying someone killed a man with a knife or someone ate his his dinner with a knife So do you mean a knife is only used to kill or only to eat food . Salaah is something used at different instances for different situations a type of a discussion, But then again if one tries to convince someone,a cristian,with a firm belief that jesus is not God you won't be able to unless he has an open mind to learn and to reason so i can't convince you or anyone else and its up to you to find out and may be not to find out . Sorry but i don't want to argue . God Bless.

Peace. I'm extremely occupied at the moment, so my forum participation is diluted, but I've just come to suggest that maybe Salat = sining (Oration sounds a bit iffy to me, but could sining and oration mean the same thing?) when we sing, we feel some kind of funny feeling, and it can be a spiritual experience wit the Quran. So arabs consider the meanings from ancient arabic (its not their mother tongue) and non-arabs consider it in their own language, so arabs don't have an advantgae over non-arabs. Natu out (for now...)

Salaamun alaikum brother Hafeez, Thank you for your excellent elucidation. May Allah bless you. Peace, Tanveer

peace, Your view is interesting but one must review it in all occurrences of slw IF one believes it has such a meaning throughout. What is ?kitaban mawqutan?? = timed/periodic book/decree/law What does it mean to ?remember Allah when standing, sitting or lying down?? I believe its an idiom meaning 'all the time'. Wakas

Good job brother!

Salaamun alaikum everyone, 1727 And give the relative his due, and the poor, and the wayfarer; and do not waste excessively. 1728 Those who waste excessively are brothers to the devils, and the devil was to his Lord a rejecter. 1729 And if you turn away from them to seek a mercy from your Lord which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying. 1730 And do not make your hand stingy by holding it to your neck, nor shall you lay it fully open so you become in despair and regret. 1731 Your Lord lays out openly the provision for whom He wishes, and He is able to do so. He is Expert and Watcher to His servants. IMO making your hand stingy by holding it to your neck means not giving anything (0 %) and lay it fully open means 100 % (of the excess of course). I think that here Allah is asking us to make our own judgement and the amount of charity could be any reasonable figure between those two extremes depending on our individual judgement or situation; for example it could be 25 % or 40 % or 65 % or 80 % of the excess. I dont think the above ayat implies 50 % exactly. Peace, Tanveer

Salaamun alaikum everyone, In his refutations 2 (an article on free-minds.com) brother Ayman implies that the sujud is physical based on the following ayat 17108 Say "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating, and they Say "Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled." Here IMO Allah is talking about a physical sujud in which the chin rests on the floor. Any comments from the knowledgable? Peace, Tanveer

Salaamun alaikum everyone, In his refutations 2 (an article on free-minds.com) brother Ayman implies that the sujud is physical based on the following ayat 17108 Say "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating, and they Say "Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled." Here IMO Allah is talking about a physical sujud in which the chin rests on the floor. Any comments from the knowledgable? Peace, Tanveer

You can start from here... http//www.aididsafar.com/

Salaams, Last dream. 012.043 YUSUFALI The king (of Egypt) said "I do see (in a vision) seven fat kine, whom seven lean ones devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! Expound to me my vision if it be that ye can interpret visions." PICKTHAL And the king said Lo! I saw in a dream seven fat kine which seven lean were eating, and seven green ears of corn and other (seven) dry. O notables! Expound for me my vision, if ye can interpret dreams. SHAKIR And the king said Surely I see seven fat kine which seven lean ones devoured; and seven green ears and (seven) others dry O chiefs! explain to me my dream, if you can interpret the dream. mzTRANS. 1243 And said the king verily I saw seven abundance (?s) of wealth/camels/cows/commodities/household goods fat/plump whom devoured/incapacitated seven lean ones And seven seed produce rendered/cut off (while it was green or not ripe) and others dry ?O? notables advice me in what I have seen if you are (able) of what I saw to resolve the matter. Then the following verses show us the solution to overcome such devastation due to weather/seasonal changes ? solution put forward by Prophet Joseph. To store food items on a very large enough scale for the forceable future to overcome shortages. Obviously such a stock takes a long time. By the way the word Ara is used in a number of other ayahs 2720, 37102 and 4029.? to see?, and there is nothing in the ayah 1243 to indicate this was a dream as such unless we turn to the corrupted bible or consider the first translation of the quran which was done by a Christian monk in the 11th centuary?obviously he was relating to his believes of the bible ? I think. God Bless.

Thanks Latif for the clarification ) Peace all

Peace Kyle, Yes, we are always learning, but there are times when we must sit down and give FULL ATTENTION to becoming enlightened. For example, children dont just go out and get jobs and live life and naturally learn what needs to be learned, such as how to be a doctor, lawyer, etc. No. Instead there needs to be SET TIMES when they sit down and LEARN, like school. So while it is true that one should always be learning, there is also the NEED for a PROCESS(salaat) of enlightenment when one becomes STILL and can give full concentration to the objective. The entire mankind, male and female, including children, have their obligations and duties, day-in and day-out, whether SET TIMES and giving FULL ATTENTION or not. Learning itself is a commitment. This is what is being described by "salaat". The God says not to apprach it with a mind befogged until you know what you are SAYING. This is not speaking about a 24 hour process. I understand the above as a command, not a learning process at dawn and dusk only, as some understand otherwise. It is a duty, an obligation, a commitment to obey and adhere to, hence the word "salaat". Aidid is incorrect in his assessment He has done a marvellous job as per my understanding.

Peace, besides any specific discussion on what salat means, I don't think your suggestion is appropriate. SURA 5 VERSE 6 O you who believe, if you rise to attend the contact-method, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative. The only problem perhaps is that it is mentioned in the verse itself, unless it talks of doing it prior to another 'wash'. Actually you clarified this yourself, so where do you want to get? Elke

Salut Mohamed, Peace upon you, Here are the occurences of the root "Q-D-Y". http//www.irreduciblefifth.force9.co.uk/burhan/b.x.342.htm -- Thanks for the information, this verb has several meanings according the context. In the light of 4100-103, 6210, 2200, to end/finish/complete/fulfill make more sence for me than to decree which is generally specific for the God and His judgement. Here some examples which are similar than those about the salat 29.Then let them complete (lyaqdoo) their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them partake at the ancient sanctuary. He said ?It is then an agreement between me and you. Whichever period I fulfill (qadaytu), you will not be averse to either one. And God is entrusted over what we said.? So when Moses fulfilled (qada) his obligation, he was traveling with his family and he saw a fire from the slope of the mount. He said to his family ?Stay here. I have seen a fire. Perhaps I can bring to you news from there, or a portion of the fire to warm you.? 3323 And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you ?Keep your wife and reverence God,? and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended (qada) his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended (qadaw). And God's command is always done.