Salat & Zakat

In Arabic (and other languages) one can address the audience in the plural/dual/singular, depending on the verbs/words/pronouns/etc used. In Quran, certain commands are given in the plural address, some are singular address. The latter may or may not be applicable to all. If you check the Arabic you will see this clearly. Those verses I mentioned use the singular address.

To be honest,the debate is now shifting towards the main commands like patience,truthfulness,justice,good works and a relationship with the Lord that is strictly personal and sincere. Things like Salat,hajj,sawm are less of a priority to those who seek their Lord for a sincere relationship. What was happening for the past two decades is people playing with multi meanings words of GOD and arriving at different confusing outcomes.. Words like Salat,Zakat,Hajj,Sawm,Sujud etc that GOD in His wisdom has put there to distinguish and bring out the true convictions of those who say they believe. GOD has also been true to His word by sending messengers to clarify certain rights and put more fitna into the mix. For me these type of subjects have now become irrelevant now. The main subject of importance and priority is to acquire "taqwa" to overcome the worldly desires and to clean oneself from hate,discrimination,arrogance...LOVE GOD AND LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR! Just my thoughts. Oh and some verses that come to mind 38 "Our Lord, let not our hearts waver, now that You have guided us. Shower us with Your mercy; You are the Grantor. 316 They say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so forgive us our sins, and spare us the agony of the hellfire." 317 They are steadfast, truthful, submitting, charitable, and repenters at dawn. GOD bless. Peace.. Peace, In some sense I do agree with you regarding priority and weightage of being a successful Muslim. This is why I raised the following thread; Weightage of Salat within Islam https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609466.0 Once we have a the proper weightages or criticalness we can do a Pareto analysis to focus on the 20% of actions that will produce 80% of the results focusing on the lesser critical deeds of the deen. To do so, we still have to understand the various elements of Islam in the Quran so that we know its ranking and criticalness precisely. Thus the necessity to explore terms like Salat, Zakat, Hajj ,Sawm, Sujud, etc. FULLY so that we do not missed out any thing important and significant. I think we should start a thread to establish approximate ratings and weightages for each deeds of the deen, rank them then do a Pareto Analysis to find out the 20% of critical deeds so that we can focus on these in utilizing the limited time one has . https//www.projectsmart.co.uk/pareto-analysis-step-by-step.php

Peace, again you mix SALAT with "PRAYER". Are you saying 'salat' do not involve 'prayers' at all? I understand 'salat' = 'commitment' as the main set which include the subsets of prayers , communion, various forms of worshiping, glorification, praising, meditation, etc. which will contribute to remembrance and 3budu . One point is salat = 'commitment' and encompasses prayers does not mean prayers are obligatory. Any one who believe in meditation, contemplation of Allah's name, greatness, etc. can do so. The ultimate basis and what matters is how one's external acts influence the relevant spiritual parts in the brain. So it is wrong if one prays and thereafter immediately goes on the street to demonstrate and commit violence. In this case the wrong part of the brain is triggered and thus the resulting violence.

Hi, According to Quran, prayer (I'm not talking about salat..salat is nor prayer! salat is an entirely different thing) is such a thing that doesn't rely on any standardized procedure. It must be done secretly and honestly with your inner voice or with a gentle tone. I hope this makes a bit helping in your journey of the comprehending what prayer really is according to Quran. Regards.

Peace, For those who are not familiar with analysis of criticalness by weightage %. Example of a weightage computation. There are many organs/elements within the human being and all must function properly and interdependently to enable a human being to survive effectively and healthily. Say we want to determine which organ is most critical to the survival of a human being in the case of an emergency. • The exercise for this would be; List down all the organs within the human body Estimate say 5 or 10 critical organs and lump all other as 'others' Put weightage % to each category and all % total to 100% • Thus what we have is; The 5 critical organs/elements are; Brain Heart Lungs Blood Others My weightage % assigned would be as follows; Brain - 80% Heart - 10 Lungs - 5 Blood - 2 Others - 3 Total ------100% My justifications of assigning brain =80% is because without the brain, the person would be dead. Thus in any emergency the brain must be attended to with 80% urgency. The other organs are not so critical because they can be replaced or artificially supported. The above is just an example of a weighting exercise, thus the justifications in this example is not valid for discussion. In the weighting exercise the critical elements may be more than 5 and as many as necessary to convey the point. Note the total % assigned must add up to 100%. The weighting exercise is applicable to any project and determining its critical element. Say, if one were to prepare a checklist for items necessary for an overseas trip by air. Amongst the many items a 'valid passport' would be rated 75% critical in general for the majority.

bagyane, Peace, Btw, the above is my objective point of view. I am not insisting you don't do your way of prayers, worship, etc., the only condition is you cannot insist your way is based on Allah's authority in the Quran, i.e. because Allah says so! In addition you don't have any divine authority to condemn those who do not follow your ways of salat.

I once meet someone who asked me "can you teach me how to pray" I said "sincerely" And she said "sincerely amen" After learning Arabic and all kinds of vanities, my prayer still fails in comparison.

Qibla has nothing to do with Salat

You can do all the above with corpus.quran.com brothers check it out http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=1&verse=1 I wasn't talking about the sites/lexicons where the same noun is masculine and feminine, but it can be useful. I was talking about translations of the Qur'an, our talking/writing, our thinking... we should use names of things as Qur'an named them, after we get the knowledge about them. As I see, people are trying to translate what's impossible to translate, even using many words, instead of just to name it SALAT, as brother Cerberus offered. If anybody thinks that they can explain anything from the Qur'an to others, they're very wrong. Maybe you read some book where its author is talking about some event which lasted for a very short time. He wrote a few hundreds of pages about it and he maybe could say more. The knowledge about any of Qur'anic words is like an ocean. How can it be translated to a single or a few words? We'll have to cut it into pieces. What is "Education process"? Is thinking "Education process"? Yes, it is, so, no matter what salat is, if we think about salat it's "Education Process". But, is it its only meaning? No, its only meaning is "salat". Allah's bless and selam.

Direction to pray.. For Heaven's sake, is "God" somewhere on Earth?

I first need to apologize to be blunt on this post.. The true ignorance are those who make a fuss over petty stuff which doesn't matter. Such as, but not limited to Face direction on praying What to say on praying (and insisting that everyone should say or not to say the same thing) Pointing fingers or not, how... Where should we hold our hand during prayer.. etc.. etc.. Again I apologize for being blunt, but I do understand how such mentality are being developed, it's due to the 'social environment'.. Becoming 'non sectarian' requires a drastic change of mindset.. a different set of outlook. Don't apply the same mindset but with different / alternative idea.. especially on things which doesn't matter.

the difference between the real creator and the kings of world is huge... i m also confused about the sajda after reading wakas article.. becoz he got some nice points to ponder. and i think the real sajda/humble/prostrate should be from inside. the body is a garment. real self is a actual character.. but anyway i m still doing sajda in my contact prayer but i think i will revise it soon after studying more , from his article i m convinced God dnt need outer thing, he need to serve him from truthful heart. the "niyaat" again whether somebody do sajda or not do it if real self is submitted to God . then duty accomplished i think... i still think the act of sajda is human invention... about the sajda in contact prayer is there is any thing from sources which make us clear any prophet did physical sajda in their contact prayers.. peace Philosophically ,words have no meaning other than their application .my argument is over here because by sujood means the physical prostration and we dont have any other application As far as wakas's article is concern ,i have almost answered all his valid points,both logically as well as Scriptural.his answers are still due . since you say you have seen valid points in his article and did lot of research you can read my answer here on this link http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608371.msg385983#msg385983 just follow the links i have given there and you will all his points were answered .let me hope at least you have answers for my questions

Peace hawk, I dont see how it can refer to any other than salat al 3sha. Its a perfect fit. If however someone believes in 5 salat daily for example then it is inevitable they will struggle making the verses fit - that is a problem for them to resolve. Peace, i certainly struggled for a long time to make 5 fit in. Thank our Lord, he allowed me to accept the Quran. Is reference to what is salat? Connection. its simple aqemu as-sallat = establish/make firm the connection. this is my understanding. it goes beyond just a specified time during the day, salat is something we should strive for always, but we are to (re)establish/make firm it regularly every day, as instructed in the quran. Trust strongly in God, make firm/(re)establish the connection and contribute to purification, this is the essense of the Bond.. Peace Peace.

Peace Celt, I recommend reading the Quran over with this from A-Z http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp Get familiar with some of the arabic words used and roots. Also this topic might interest you http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608220.0 Ultimately it is your relationship wit Whom the explanation is upon that may guide you to the correct interpretation. So help yourself with better study tools i.e. corpus.quran.com islamawakened.com/quran/ Project Root List http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm #WordForWordTranslationsRule

Wakas, I have read the article. It is significant but its not very clear actually. That was my impression when I read it. I would much rather have such a clear admission from an Islamic source with its sources about there ONLY being two prayers before the Israa'. An early Islamic admission (like Ibn Kathir's although he gives no explanations) is much more powerful. What I see is a lot of confusion about what is subh and if it is different from fajr, and what is 'asr and how close an asr prayer can be made when it come to dhuhr. He does not mention that 'asr can mean sundown ('ishaa/'asheey). He then goes into voluntary prayers and when the fajr or 'asr prayers can actually be done, or are supposed to be prayed. I found much of the information to be irrelevant. Subh as fajr and 'asr as 'ishaa/'asheey is a strong enough connection Quranically and linguistically. The other prayers should have been dealt with separately. Again, I found the work to be a bit jumbled. Salaam

peace Peace 1784?"Everyone acts in a manner peculiar to himself - and your Sustainer is fully aware as to who has chosen the best path." 1036 For, most of them follow nothing but conjecture behold, conjecture can never be a substitute for truth. Verily, God has full knowledge of all that they do. 1856?those who are bent on denying the truth contend with fallacious arguments, so as to render void the truth thereby, and to make My messages and warnings a target of their mockery. 1857Behold, over their hearts have We laid veils which prevent them from grasping the truth, and into their ears, deafness; and though thou call them onto the right path, they will never be guided. 1828 And contain thyself in patience by the side of all who at morn and at evening invoke their Sustainer, seeking His countenance, and let not thine eyes pass beyond them in quest of the beauties of this world's life; and pay no heed to any whose heart We have rendered heedless of all remembrance of Us because he had always followed his own desires, abandoning all that is good and true. May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.

When I first started out on my journey to seek/find the truth, I thought that the quran verses on Salat could be interpreted in various ways. But today I believe that the quranic verses on Salat clearly state Salat what salat is. In my view, there are no ambiguities regarding the quranic verses on Salat. I'd like to share a quote here. Selam, 1778 and 1779 also say 2 prayers and a extra prayer in the night, you can read my research and the wusta prayer is the night prayer from 17;79. 11114 tells us about 2 prayers. Peace

Ok I'll try. "As per this verse it is evident that the first (the forerunner or the best people of our Ummah ) are the companions( the Muhajireen and the Ansar) of our prophet and the people who followed the companions of our prophet ." From where did you get the red information? Do you have any better explanation for "the Muhajireen and the Ansar",Ben ) I Was not angry just wanted emphasis that the way you do your prayer or the way I do my prayer is something personal. Don't judge the prayers of others, they can use the same arguments to invalidate your prayer. You may be correct ,but there is specific way and purpose for each and every thing and we cannot avoid it Like I said if you analyze them with Bukhary than probably you have some very good points. I do not only believe in The Quran, I believe in every truth. Doing a ritual has nothing to do with truths, it's just a ritual. Allah will not question us about our rituals. can you elaborate the phrase "I believe in every truth" as far as i know the final truth is Quran . if we are living in a specific country then we must abide by its laws .we follow them because we fear that we will be held for them if we don't follow them . in the same pattern , i am bounded by the laws of Quran only difference is that i fear that i will be held responsible for violating it in akhira .you may correct ,as i told you before about the GOD's view in Quran you may be in these category .is it makes you lawless .this is just an inquiry . ) The only reason I started this conversation was/is because of you topic title. btw The Quran is a wonderful book, but do not turn into a quranist. the main reason for this title is, if we ask ALLAH subahnavatala to guide us to a right path then how our ancestors were not rightly guided

Good work brother

Peace From 1074-5 we can expand the idea behind the word JuNuBA. M.Assad interpreted these verses as 107(4) Woe, then, unto those praying ones (5) whose hearts from their prayer are remote. Thus giving the meaning of JuNuBA to SAHWN, God knows why, because, in his notes he stated, ?Lit., "who are unmindful of their prayers".? literal translation 1071 HAST THOU seen the one that he denying (b-al-dyn) * the reckoning/ religion/ law (2) so, this the one that repulses the orphan, (3) and not he urging over feeding the weak/ needy. (4) So, Woe, the praying ones (5) those who they of/after their prayer (SAHWN) unmindful/ absent-minded/ forgetful (6) those who they, they showing-off/ do to be seen (7) and they denying (al-ma?wn) the water/ simplest of things! and other cases in wich a person is considered tobe far/remote 4116... one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away 6116 And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's Path... from 4116 and 6116 it could be assumed that those doing such wickedness are unclean for prayer. And, In 2238 the believers are told the state of mind in which they shall attend prayer, and that to stand before Allah they must be obedient persons. Which is reasonable, because only a hypocrite could go to stand before Allah when he/she has been doing evil corrupting himself, or the land. Sahih 2238 Maintain with care the prayers and the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient. Assad 2238BE EVER mindful of prayers, and of praying in the most excellent way; and stand before God in devout obedience. May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.