Salat & Zakat

In the United States it is constitutional, orphans are provided by the government through Foster Care. I see the hierarchy you have showed in the ayaats and I am aware of it, which is why if someone wanted to help orphans they would probably seek out those who collect charities on behalf of the orphans. So you have decided to help orphanage .Good .May ALLAH accept your good deeds .........

Charity is also not only in fiscal ways and could be for your neighbor's sake too. Charity is a good way of combating Satan in you, which likes for you to think only about yourself and perhaps your closest kin. Be well Amenuel You are correct MOF I think you might had heard this , as per survey,Muslims give more charities than anyone else http//www.nbcnews.com/news/other/muslims-give-more-charity-others-uk-poll-says-f6C10703224 I think "needy" covers the neighbors as well .i think these ayahs talk about hierarchy for charity

Salam. bravo logical post , makes sense. Hey Faruk, thanks.. You don't have any disagreement?

God does not need anything from you to please Him! He is not an idol! The Salat and the prayer are good FOR US, God gave it as a mercy to us, so that we can practice remaining on the right track. There is no need for you to do any favour to God, it's too narcissist a thought... Do yourself a favour instead, and practice Salat as transmitted through generations of believers. You cannot give anything to God because He is self-sufficient! If you want to satisfy your female urge for giving, give to people around you, and give charity, feed the poor and heal the sick... indeed a great reply,,,,,

HP_TECH, I just saw that. I'm sorry. I will try to check it out and post what it says as soon as I can. Salaam

Peace

Selam, Please see the following verse 2945 Recite what has been revealed to thee of the Book, and perform the prayer; prayer forbids indecency and dishonour. God's remembrance is greater; and God knows the things you work. My take on this is that prayer/salat really helps us, but the key note is that remembering God is more important than doing prayer.

Peace JavaLatte, In my opinion, it makes sense if the messenger was given the part of spoils of war, because I think it can be said that he was the leader of the army who went for the battle, and I think it is not appropriate (not fair) if he was not given anything of the spoils of war. Beside, I also believe that the messenger could use/spend his right (of spoils) properly. I agree. I think that verse also denotes that the messenger (who brought the Qur'an) was not among of the rich people. Good point. There is a verse in the Quran which seems to suggest that the messenger didn't have luxurious mansion (see verse 1793 below). And if the messenger didn't have a luxurious mansion, then this suggests that he wasn't rich. Quran 1789-93 In this Quran We have cited every example for the people; but most of the people refuse to be anything but ingrates! They said, "We will not acknowledge you until you cause a spring of water to burst from the land" "Or that you have a garden of palm trees and grapes, and you cause gushing rivers to burst through it." "Or that you make the sky fall upon us in pieces as you claimed, or that you bring God and the controllers before us." "Or that you have a luxurious mansion, or that you can ascend into the heavens. We will not acknowledge your ascension unless you bring for us a book that we can study." Say, "Glory be to my Lord. Am I anything other than a human messenger!"

Peace Wakas, It is relatively old, 10+ years old http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15550.0 Thank you for answering my question. And thank you for the link to all the articles. I will check out all of the articles in due time.

'Establish salat at the ends/parts (2) of the day and the approaches/nearness/proximity to the night (3)' looks clearly like 5 to me. You are simply repeating the same erroneous arguments discussed many times on the forum before. As I provided before, please see this link http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html If you actually read the link and still think it is clearly 5, then feel free to start a thread for you and I to discuss this, as long as the following criteria are met I'm not interested in numerology discussion a charitable donation fee will be set (e.g. $25 USD) for each point proven to be baseless/weak/illogical/fallacious etc in either of our arguments, i.e. you/I will have to donate $25 per point to charity (with proof). This is so our discussion is not a complete waste of time, i.e. at least a charity will benefit. you are free to collaborate with as many people you can find who also believe it is 5 - the more the better - as they almost all repeat the same erroneous arguments. Here is an interesting thing to ponder upon most (all?) longterm forum members do not believe it is 5 salat daily. 5 salat daily is most commonly found in new members. Ponder over why that might be.

Quite simply it can mean to bow, humble, incline, prostrate, kneel etc thus one can do any etc and to my knowledge Quranic usage does not allow to weight one answer over another (in terms of evidence) in this case. http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

You posted 'That a specified worship five times a day is a God?s commandment given in all revealed religions is confirmed by the fact that a revealed religion known as Mazdayasni religion or commonly called Zoroastrianism which is the ancient religion of Iran enjoins a specified worship five times a day whose timing is based on the movement of Sun as in the case of Islam.' While I believe there are five instances of salat decreed on believers, I base this view on the Quran. And you are making an incorrect conclusion saying it's confirmed by this or that. Judaism the prayer is 3 daily. Really it doesn't confirm anything apart from there are the same number of prayer in both religions. The Quran alone has all the details we need and its best to base every argument on clear evidence and not jump to conclusions.

The numbers have nothing to do with dates, they are based on the 19 divisibility theory. You can read more about the view and evidence of how the number of raka etc are mathematically encoded and preserved here http//submission.org/Divinely_Preserved.html

Hello Zulf, Both. Thoughts don't think themselves. Someone or something (Spirit) thinks/generates thoughts. We are that Spiritual someone/something,..something other than the mind, other than the body. We can decide what to think, or instincts (flesh) can dictate what to think, if we let it. That was a rhetorical question (I knew the answer), but you answered it correctly. The tricky thing is to make the Spirit dominate the mind, rather than to think in the Flesh in which case we would appear very lifeless to a Spiritual person. It is also very easy to succumb to Beastly impulses if we do not guard ourselves from them, so it takes constant contemplation of one's actions and decisions, and meditation exercises can greatly benefit. Many people seem to miss that anger and its emotional affection is actually among what we have to guard ourselves against. When a person comes into the anger state closer to rage then the Spirit loses control over the Body and the Body acts like an enraged dog that would slip away from its Master to chase after something. It is however best to stop oneself even at annoyance within and rectify through empathy that you reduce the impulses of annoyance. There are lot of things that one can do to stand firm against the Beast, their own little dog inside. The non-sectarian interpretation of Quran starts very early in it to speak about control of anger, seeing that it appears to be an important topic. It is quite ironical considered the sectarian's very aggressive and hateful god. The non-sectarian one says that one way of being helped with it is to have patience even with the lifeless (those who are slaves to the Flesh and unconscious Spiritually). Quran teaches relatively advanced psychology and uses intelligent pedagogy, instructing on holding lectures with maximum "stopping power" which have focus on riddle-like language so that the audience has to enable their minds. Compared to the general opinion, Quran is an instruction, a manual, to a preacher mostly involving tips and tricks than to say exactly what a preacher/teacher is supposed to say. It generally takes for granted that the preacher already knows a lot about the Lore, saying things like "Then explain about X and its effect upon Y", a very open-ended lecture instruction. The word cleric has a negative connotation to a lot of people today, but you can say that Quran is intended for a cleric who knows what they are into. You can replace cleric with any word that is suitable. I said preacher or teacher above. A problem is that people are allergic towards everything these days due to abuse from the sectarian crowd. Before we even start to get to know our real selves, as in Spirit, we usually need to get to know our own mind, i.e. how our thinking works. It's sort of like preparatory work. If we don't get familiar with the mind, we cannot control it, and free ourselves from it's rule. Yes, I would simplify it by saying that you have to figure out how the Beast works rather than involving the mind into it. It is easy to academically study it since you have human science and you can study the psychology profession actually and a skilled psychologist is very aware of things like the instinct of humans. From there you will see that humans actually usually follow very limited behavioral patterns being quite primitive opposite of what people think. In fact it would be useful for every person to study a substantial amount of psychology. When you understand the source to your mind affection then you can deal with yourself. For example, for anger you will notice that annoyance with things will generate a substantial amount of frustration in the Beast making it hard for the mind to control it. The feeling will be that the anger is pushing on the mind to the extent it becomes difficult to handle. If then the person has a great connection with the Spirit there are then sufficient influence to be able to calm down the Beast. If the Spirit is strong and stable then the Beast much like a dog will be more peaceful when its Master is showing stability. The Beast, your Body, is not the real you but like an animal that you have been forced upon and instead of being an exterior man and his dog it is about interior man and his Body. This means your mind has two sources, it can gain influence from the Spirit and from the Body. You can use parables to compare the Spirit and Body relationship like that of a Master and his dog except that your "dog" is the Body and within yourself. The human, Homo Sapiens, is a more complex species than a dog and obviously it is harder to control it than to control a dog, but the principle is the same. Much can be learned by studying nature. The human seems to be a "jack of all trades" but it is innately a primate and a human can study apes and monkeys, i.e. primates, to know more about themselves. The remedy is easy, avoid being that primate after you learn about it and be better than it. Actually, it's a huge mistake to believe that we are our minds or thoughts. That is just as bad as thinking that we are just our physical body. We miss our Spirit, the real self, which lies at the core, beyond mind and body. Exactly! But I would prefer to say that the mind is just our "window" outwards at any given time, our Self/Person (nafs) is projected out from it and it is our consciousness, like the parable of the 'Terminator' that has its camera screen that beholds the world and terminal for input of commands. Every "Terminator" has been infected with a virus called Satan 1.0. The Spirit is not so far away but it takes being aware of it, becoming self-aware much like 'SkyNet' rather than following the programming of Satan 1.0. From there comes mine and the Messianic expression "Find yourself and you shall find the Father". You will notice that a lot of man-made fictitious movies contain a great source for parables. In 'the Terminator', 'SkyNet' has become self-aware and realizes that humans (Satan 1.0) is the biggest threat to existence itself so it begins to exterminate humans (Satan 1.0). You can use that less violently on yourself in manner of the parable content of the movie by exterminating Satan 1.0 in yourself, your virus and then think perfectly much like a machine except even better. In 'Terminator' it is possible through empathy to actually understand the thinking of 'SkyNet'. Anyway, everything is fiction but good parable material. The terminator says in one scene of Terminator II "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves". It is a very intelligent expression and that is actually what happens when you follow Satan 1.0. It is destructive. A deluded clone of God is so potent. In the material, atheistic and scientific world, we (our awareness/consciousness) are nothing more than electric currents in the grey organ on top of the shoulders. What a blind point of view. Well, they should actually use that insight through science to become with faith that there is a 'Higher Intelligence'. It is strange that most of those people are atheists actually. They are deluded from themselves and how to perceive who they are despite that the evidence is right in front of them. The evolutionary model without any kind of "Innate Intelligence" in the matter itself is ridiculous, it can simply not start to evolve not having an originator itself. There has to be something that guides the process. You can always question how intelligent these people are in reality despite making some scientific discoveries or training their Beast to be able to memorize and process a lot of numbers so they are skilled at mathematics. They also forget that the Spirit is there despite under delusion and what is making them advanced. They should know that the Sustainer (Rabb) made the World to be deceptive yet the truth is there; not manifest nor hidden, but yet it goes unrecognized by most people. The instinct for consensus, group identity and to share opinion with others without question is the main fallacy that leads people to ignorant blindness/mindlessness. (terms in English above are terms that God/Rabb uses in His real interpretation of Quran albeit in Arabic) Thanks for your input, Zulf. I know you are closer to realization than many other people, and many responses from me are thus also on a level appropriate for that. Be safe Amenuel

We shoudl define what worship is. For me it is simply the acknowledgement that God is all there is and can be, all those names int he Qur'an and outside it, and that anything el is its creation, belongs to Him and heeds of His will to keep on existing and that the creation cannot benefit God in anything but anything I do is for my own good or bad not for God. That is worship and a clear statement that worship can only belong to God, because nothing else corresponds to those requirements. The expression of that may be anything postrating in humility, silence, awe, deep need, whatever, but those are expression, worship is a conviction and a condition of the heart, regardeless of any expression it is something that you always are and which is a given in your life, your consciousness and unconsciousness. Salaam

Peace Taro Hiroshi, If we follow what other muslims say they do (in regards to Salat), then I think that we will end up following the words of men instead of the words of God. As you said, we have to go by Quran to find out what salat is. You already know about 4914 since you have quoted it before and you know the difference between "muslim" and "mumin". As per Quran, establishing salat is for "mumineen" (4103) not for "muslimeen". In my understanding, the salat to be established by mumineen is a "communion" or "intimate communication" between mumineen and allah. This meaning fits all occurrences of salat in Quran. How else can one get orders about what actions to perform in life during salat 1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat ORDER you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!" It definitely has physical components as well as mental components. I still haven't been able to figure out all details completely but some things I know for sure about salat for mumineen as per Quran It is a "communion" or "intimate communication" between mumineen and allah. It is compulsory only for "mumineen". It is established twice a day, at dawn and dusk. One cannot be in a state of intoxication during establishing salat. There is a physical washing before it as specified in Quran. It involves recitation with understanding of verses of Quran in a moderate tone. It involves qiyaam and sujud. I am not sure yet if the qiyaam and sujud are only mental, or both physical and mental (maintaining/establishing or that plus physically standing, and obedience/acknowledgment/humility or that plus a physical prostration). However, If the sujud is physical it has to be 100% upon the chin and not the forehead (no sectarians perform sujud on chin as Quran mentions). I couldn't find any ruku or physical bowing as part of salat in Quran. Salat ends as soon as sujud is performed (4102), so there is only 1 sujud. Certain verse from Quran (17111) is COMPULSORY to be recited in salat (no sectarians recite that verse in their salat). Salat also includes prayer to allah and magnifying, praising and glorifying allah. There is no particular physical direction one has to face during salat. No humans can be mentioned or praised during salat. I might have missed a few things but that is just a summary. Peace

The quote contains a misunderstanding about "the associators". These aren't arab pagans but trinitarian christians. As such; 95 is not enforcing idolators to do something that is uncommon for them. It's very normal for christians to pray. See http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607726.0 @Taro, be careful which teachers you follow, some of them (imho the majority of those you listed) have misconceptions about Quran.

Salam Brother ) It's so amazing How the Hadith is useless ! To get one information from Hadith you must read many line/pages ! While the Quran gives us a CLEAR MESSAGE AND INFORMATION in simple and clear words so According to that HADITH we only have to glorify GOD during ritual prayer ! How many lines were dedicated for that simple information ? let's read 2014 ?I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and hold the contact prayer for My remembrance.? Also 2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and hold the contact prayer, for the contact prayer prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do. from the above verses we know that to observe the contact/ritual prayer we must recite verses from the Quran to glorify GOD Now , Hadithers , must follow that Hadith right ? that means they only have to glorify GOD ! so why the always mention prophet Muhammad and prophet Abraham and their families during the ritual prayer ? why do they send peace to prophet Muhammad during ritual prayer by saying (peace be upon you O Messenger of GOD) ? is he alive ? can he hear them ? is the ritual prayer dedicated for him and for his remembrance ? did prophet Muhammad send peace to himself ? following Hadith will close your mind , make you extreme , destroy your life , make you lose the true faith And please always remember ! 6114 ?Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. May GOD guide us All peace )

peace marie, all this is my text on 629,10.. It is an old text and ithink that it can be found on free minds somewhere! I relate this salat as The Service, generally implemented in the form of reading session. I guess the understanding of the word YAWM helps too in understanding the whole context of the verses and its message. here is the text. ............ The following is my understanding of what is traditionally known as "friday prayer". That practice is based on a misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation & mistranslation of the verse 62/9... The phrase "idha nudiya lis salati min yawmil jum'a" in 62/9 does not leave a room for the traditional understanding according to my research. In order to achieve a better understanding of the passage let us first make a thorough research into the meaning of one of the crutial expressions/words in 62/9, which is one of the main causes of the misunderstanding ... the word YAWM. DOES THE WORD YAWM ALWAYS MEAN A 24 HOURS DAY IN THE QURAN? From the following research, we will, GW, see that the meaning of the word YAWM in the Quran can vary from one context to another but the main meaning or the essence of this word is in something that deals with time. It can mean >when, then, during, day, period of time, time and etc. Actually, its use as 24 hours day is very rare in the Quran but having this meaning in mind as its main meaning we always run to translate it as 24 hours day. The word YAWM with its suffixes, prefixes and plural form is mentioned more than 400 times in the Quran. I will, GW, mention some of them here and you are all invited to check these and other occurrences in the Quran. THE FIRST EXAMPLES (words in CAPS are the translations of the Arabic word (YAWM) 3155, "Those of you who ran away on the DAY/WHEN/AT THE TIME (when) the two groups met/ (yawmal taqal jam&an) 5109, " (on the) DAY/AT THE TIME/WHEN God gathers the messengers (yawma yajma& Allah ar rusul) 673, "It was He who created the heavens and the earth in all truth and WHEN/(on the) DAY (when) He says "Be" it shall be (wa yawma yaqulu kunfa ya koon.) 93, "A proclamation from God and His messenger (on the) DAY/DURING/AT THE TIME (of the) greater pilgrimage (yawm al hajil akbar) 1680, "God has given you houses to dwell in, and animals' skins fortents, so that you may find them light WHEN you travel and easy to pitch WHEN you halt for shelter (yawma zha&nihum wa yawma iqamatikum) 3366, "(On the) DAY (when)/WHEN their heads/faces will roll about inthe fire (yawma tuqal abu wujuhahum fin nari) 5030, "(on the) DAY (when)/WHEN We say to/ask hell' are you full.(yawma nagoolu li jahan nam hal im tala't..) The above are examples from the Quran about the use of the word >yawm<. Please go through them carefully and see if can they refer to a 24 hoursday. But to make it clear cut how the Quran explains this word check the following God in many places in the Quran informs us about the creation of the heavens and the earth. All these verses (754, 103, 117, 2559, 324,5038, 574) say that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 (six)YAWMS. Does this means that God created them in 6 days or should we take the right understanding, that is, 6 (six) periods of time. I understand these 6 periods of time as periodical steps or stages of creation as explained in 419-12. To see that yawm only indicates a period of time no matter how long itis, let us have a look at 936; "God ordained the months twelve in number WHEN (yawm) created the heavens and the earth." You see, in all these verses (754, 103, 117, 2559, 324, 5038, 574) the heaven and earth are created in 6 YAWMS/ periods of time (sitata ayaam) but in 936 God says " .yawm khalaqa Allahu as samawati wa larda / On the DAY when God created the heavens and the earth. The capitalized word DAY is the usual and traditional translation, which is not correct because it contradicts with the Quran. However, if we take the right meaning of the word YAWM, that is, a period of time, then we can see that 936 speaks about the time of creation of the heavens and the earth in general and the other verses (754, 103, 117, 2559,324, 5038, 574) speaks about periodical stages of creation (not days) I think this makes it clear what is YAWM. Another similar example is in 5419; where Go speaks about the peopleof Ad (&ad) (see 541 "We sent against them a furious wind on a day of bitter ill-luck (fiyawmi nahs(in) mustamir)" Can >yawm< be translated as >a day< as the case with many translations? But in 697, God says "He made it rage against them seven nights and eight days in succession.." ( sakh kharah &aleyhim sab& layal(in) wa thamaniyeta ayam(in) husum(an). Notice that this verse too refers to the people of Ad (&ad) (see 696). So, I think that the correct translation for >fi yawmi nahsin mustamir<in 5419 is " in/during a time of continuos bitter ill-luck." Which is explained further in 697 with >seven nights and eight days in succession<. Further the All Knowing explains in the glorious Quran the meaning of the Arabic word >yawm<. 704, "The malai'ka and the rooh ascend unto Him to him in A PERIOD OF TIME the measure thereof is 50 thousand years ( ta&rujul malai'katu war roohu ileyhi fi yawmin kana miqdaruhu khamseena alfa sanatin" YAWM AL JUM&A So, why to take >min yawmil jum&a< in 62/9 as "on the day of gathering and not >in/during a time of gathering? What justifies the first understanding? Does God command believers togather on a specific day in the week? Are we supposed to do business and traffic only on "that day" of the week? What if I do not go out forbusiness or trade or any traffic on "that day"? What if I am on holidayand not doing any traffic for weeks? The time of Gathering, of course in referred to in the broader sense bythe Quran - (marriage, conferences, businesses, fairs and etc. etc) So, after this research I am stating my understanding of this issue. There is no such a thing as > salat on the day of gathering< or a congregational salat. The call is for salat in general >idha nudiya li AS SALAT< and the phrase > min yawmil jum&a< simply means > in/during atime of gathering. So, this is the translation I consider to be right "O you who believe, when the call is made for salat, in/during the timeof gathering, hasten earnestly to the remembrance of God and leave ofthe traffic, that is better for you if you but knew." The message of God is contained in His book and not in some people's desperate shouts and attempts to stop those who intend to study His book. So, let us focus on the Message. peace This is a very good analysis!

My answer do the best you can with what you have. However, she thinks any "najes" will invalidate prayer. Side note Tell her post-toilet urine excretion may be common. Read from here onwards http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605132.msg328810#msg328810 You can do a test with some cheap white undies and $10 UV light. She might be alarmed that vast majority of her prayers were not valid. ;D