Here is my Ultimate Answer to the Top Question of Sunnis and Shiites
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God is not an "external source", there is no way of being external relative to God.
Peace,
From our perspective, Allah is external to us because of the formidable barrier that exists between heavens and earth. There is no way to escape Him, but certainly one can be external to Him per Quran.
For example ahadeeth do this by adding more details onto the details prescribed in the quran. Thus they are a "bid'ah" and perhaps the perpetrators of such a "bid'ah" should be shot just as the Sunnis say (not that I condone such a thing).
The difference between ahadeeth and the concept/practice advocated here
ahadeeth (e.g. Bukhari) = Ancient innovation (bid'ah)
Concept/practice (advocated here)* = Modern innovation (bid'ah)
Maybe you are jealous of Bukhari because he got the patent of innovation ahead of you. Now you cannot claim to be the original inventor of innovation.
I shun both. I only follow Quran and what my Lord teaches me.
- = Majority of things advocated here (e.g. salat, theft punishment, Ramadan, ?.)
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peace all,
OPF, I agree that less time should be spent on responding to the archetypes mentioned in your post, although I can understand it is natural on an open forum such as this. It would be a lot easier if forum members were vigilant and reported members who breach forum rules, especially rule 2 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0
As a side note, once certain projects are done, e.g. PRL, I am planning to launch two projects which should help improve quality and increase Quranic study and insight.AK85, it is not in AQ. Some interpret "or one of you have come from al ghaiti (the toilet)" as passing wind nullifies ablution. This is RK's primary evidence based on his translation. al ghaiti literally means the hole in the ground, thus one simply needs to ask themselves if people go to such a place to break wind. If yes, then it nullifies ablution. If no, then it does not. Others argue that when one breaks wind this ejects particles of fecal matter etc thus is the same as "coming from the toilet" but if this was meant AQ could have easily said it but it did not.
AQ = al quran
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And We have created man and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
(5016)1311 - Shifts (of angels) take turns, staying with each one of you - they are in front of you and behind you. They stay with you, and guard you in accordance with GOD's commands. Thus, GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people, no force can stop it. For they have none beside Him as Lord and Master.
5017 - Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording.
8211 - They are honest recorders.
8212 - They record everything you do.
1628 - The angels put them to death in a state of wronging their souls. That is when they finally submit, and say, "We did not do anything wrong!" Yes indeed. GOD is fully aware of everything you have done.
1632 - The angels terminate their lives in a state of righteousness, saying, "Peace be upon you. Enter Paradise (now) as a reward for your works."
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No that's true, I don't disagree at all that clean earth may substitute water when it is not available. At face value I'm sure you understand that without verifying for myself I cannot agree with you automatically that sleeping & passing wind for nullifying the salat are not in the Qu'ran.
I'm not saying they are, but I don't know for myself whether they aren't either. As of right now, unless you can tell me with absolute certainty that you absolutely beyond doubt do not remember seeing this I do not know what to say.
I just want to stress to make it absolutely clear that I am not trying to insult you or deride you, and I realize when you say (not in the Qu'ran) it may imply that you have read the whole Qu'ran and not seen this. As of right now I don't know if this is clarifying 100% that you have read and remember the entire Qu'ran so I hope you understand, I do not say this to offend you.
Dr. Khalifa I'm assuming has read the entire Qu'ran (after all he would have to if he translated it) and perhaps he came across a verse which stated that these two acts nullify the ablution, but until I read for myself I cannot say with certainty that it is or isn't in the Qu'ran. I do agree very very very much so that it is dubious that he has not provided references for the two disputed acts which nullify ablution. However, based on the fact that he has read the entire Qu'ran, and his strong anti hadith stand, I think that perhaps it is in the Qu'ran and that it is reasonable perhaps to conclude that he may have simply forgotten to include the reference. With regards to verse 1736 I am happy that you are attesting to the fact that this is apparently not in the Qu'ran (I use the word apparently because I have not read the entire Qu'ran and therefore cannot say myself with certainty that it is or isn't in it). I am aware of 1736 and as such do not take a strong stand against you or anyone else who will not accept this which they have not verified. I am simply not sure what to say as I have not read the entire Qu'ran.
I hope someone who is reading this, who has read the entire Qu'ran can provide references if it is in the Qu'ran or can attest to the fact that they have read and remember the entire Qu'ran and it is nowhere in the Qu'ran.
Salam AK. Certainly I do not take offense at anything you have said at all. I have read the entire Quran and in addition to that I have studied many of its verses, I do not ever say I KNOW it all nor that I can recite it! there is a difference. My point was not that there is no verse in Quran regarding 'what nullifies ablution' but that there is no such thing as 'what nullifies ablution' and I gave reasons why in my post regarding one verse. I am of course open to anyones ideas on this and what I see tomorrow maybe not what I saw today or yesterday, as with any of us that are learning.
The verse in question was 56 and from that verse alone my opinion is that each time you prepare to pray or present yourself to God, you wash.By the way, please do not take this the wrong way and please do not scoff at this recommendation, but I have come across people who are most virulent and cruel in their ways of discourse, and yet I have not resorted to names to refer to their system of reasoning. I have erred sure and have been sarcastic and used their own terminology in quotes as a means of sarcasm but I try to most of the time (and may God forgive me if the following statement is not 100% accurate) not to resort to names. One two occasions I used profanity/name calling towards two people who's cowardice and lies disgusted me a great deal, and I apologize to God for this and one of the things I ask him every night to help me with is restraint and speaking righteously and in a just manner.
I just don't think it is good and wise to to say things like "lolgic" I am sorry if this is unwelcome, but I just don't think its right, and this poisons the discourse in my opinion, regardless of one's frustrations I think we should not resort to this, against anyone. If they do not want to understand they will not understand as God has told us, and I think we should control our frustrations. 1857
I hope the following does not paint a caricature of me as some angry mullah but personally I think some of these emoticons as well are too much. I think we should restrain ourselves from exhibiting too much of an emotional reaction to what people say like   rotfl brickwall confused whatever yeah wow hail giveup
as for rotfl I don't think it is bad when expressed in a benevolent way but to react to what someone has to say with that I think does not do any justice and is not wise.
It is of course (and I hope) not our intent to antagonize others but the above does not help (in my opinion) in preventing this. Just my opinion. We are all created weak, and as such may resort to doing these things, and others may take offense or be hurt and discouraged from responding in a thoughtful and fruitful manner to what we have to say. Sometimes we forget things, and overlook things, and if we do not humble ourselves in discourse others may not feel the urge to correct us and may purposely hide our own mistakes out of their own bitter feelings.
Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.
I agree, I will try not to get so frustrated while posting in the future, thank you for your extremely polite slap on the wrist, accepted in the manner it was given peace
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Maybe you are jealous of Bukhari because he got the patent of innovation ahead of you. Now you cannot claim to be the original inventor of innovation.
I do see this word pop up in an accusing way with just about all your people. Strange idea that one could be jealous of what we are opposing, surely jealousy would mean we join and be one with those people?
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Protip guest is a sockpuppet of TheReformer
Peace,
Thank you for letting me know of your opinion of me. You command more respect from me for being honest to yourself. However, let me remind you of the consequence of spreading rumor or false allegation.
2411 - A gang among you produced a big lie. Do not think that it was bad for you; instead, it was good for you. Meanwhile, each one of them has earned his share of the guilt. As for the one who initiated the whole incident, he has incurred a terrible retribution.
Protip guest is a sockpuppet of TheReformer
?Aside from actually studying the book and making progress, ?
What progress?
Have you implemented Quranic system?
Does this web site implements Allah?s law?
My experience of this site is ?lip service? and rushing towards making new hadith and attributing it to Quran.
What I don't understand is that if we are well aware that ahadeeth don't serve to guide one's religion then why is so much brain-time on this forum dedicated purely to the silly battle of "Islam" vs "islam" when we could make far more progress just looking at the book and letting it speak for itself?
Please define ahadeeth for me, so that I can hold your writing accountable to that standard.
See most of the explanation given here are not in the Quran verbatim ? they are just someone?s opinion. They are no different than ahadeeth.
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The weakness of Quran alone followers is here, my brother
-There are those who support 2 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 3 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 4 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who support 5 types of Salat in the Quran (the physical act)
-There are those who even don't know how many rakaats (units) there are in a Salat (the physical act)
-There are those who pretend that one can do as many rakaat (units) as wanted there is no limit (only time limit)
-There are those who pretend that Hajj is only an event of gathering
-There are those who pretend that Hajj is a pagan form of ritual
-There are those who pretend that Sol-laa (Salat), Siyam, Hajj, Zakat are not what they shoud be because of some linguistics distorsions (For example, read Aidid Safar's Thesis)
-There are those who believe in a huge conspiracy from Persians or from Pagan Arabs to distord original Islam (Shabbir Ahmad, Aidid Safar and their likes)The above list is not exhaustive, we can add other odd sorts of Quran alone followers.
Quran alone followers are more weak than Sunnis or Shiites particularly when talking about the four main practices namely salat, hajj, siyam, zakat.
unity is not always the truth. The Quran says if you listen/follow most people, you will go astray.
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I do see this word pop up in an accusing way with just about all your people. Strange idea that one could be jealous of what we are opposing, surely jealousy would mean we join and be one with those people?
Peace,
Please pay close attention to the word ?Maybe?.? before making your conclusion.
You maybe doing it without knowing it.
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Peace,
Please pay close attention to the word ?Maybe?.? before making your conclusion.
You maybe doing it without knowing it.Maybe you are jealous of Bukhari because he got the patent of innovation ahead of you. Now you cannot claim to be the original inventor of innovation.
Please pay close attention to the word "Now" in relation to the word "Maybe" in your "accusation".
Now pay close attention to the word "way" in relation to the word "accusing" and answer the question with a straight answer
"I do see this word pop up in an accusing way with just about all your people. Strange idea that one could be jealous of what we are opposing, surely jealousy would mean we join and be one with those people? "
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The dynamics of this forum are interesting. Aside from actually studying the book and making progress, there is also a group of members who keep asking "Why are Quranists in turmoil" then proceed to create the turmoil by diverting the attention of the majority towards their baseless ahadeeth.
True...it's been like that ever since I've been here. Different members, same cycle. It's not worth it usually to get into that stuff all over again, one might as well link an old thread. Unless they're bent on antagonising you. The threads sprawled over pages and pages are usually created when two opposing viewpoints clash and it keeps going because one or the other is hellbent on sticking to their position AND not leaving the battlefield without a head. The struggle causes people to dig deeper and try harder usually if they are sincere about getting to the bottom of something. If they're not sincere, it's just information recorded for posterity whichever way it's used.What I don't understand is that if we are well aware that ahadeeth don't serve to guide one's religion then why is so much brain-time on this forum dedicated purely to the silly battle of "Islam" vs "islam" when we could make far more progress just looking at the book and letting it speak for itself?
It's the clash. So many members with so many different backgrounds causes this. Like Wakas noted, it's almost always Rule 2 that causes a roadblock in discussion diverting it to other areas. Personally I relate this in a way to say for example 2 people brought up in different families (RL example, I know the people). One is mostly quiet and doesn't raise their voice much because the parents hated noise and preferred not to provoke people much because they were anti-confrontational so important subjects kinda were never discussed down to the nitty gritty as it might hurt someone causing a confrontation. The other raised in a boisterous family, raises their voice, wants to discuss down to the nitty gritty as much as possible, isn't afraid of confrontation or of provoking someone because an argument is good fun as long as there's a reasonable outcome. Put them both together in a room and there is a problem. If rule 2 is followed reasonably and without bias as in sincerely being open to any outcome then the discussion generally isn't diverted to other areas. Once you get to the other areas, it's a minefield exactly because of different backgrounds. The people who're not aware that something is ahadeeth if it is, will either due to their baggage reject outright gradually repressing the information and going into denial. Or will start discussing and accepting that it isn't and moving on to another level. The former then stick around causing clashes with the latter. One can't say that ignoring it is the best option every time because if left unattended and if you have some formers on a mission, it starts festering. -
1311 - Shifts (of angels) take turns, staying with each one of you - they are in front of you and behind you. They stay with you, and guard you in accordance with GOD's commands. Thus, GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people, no force can stop it. For they have none beside Him as Lord and Master.
Peace, guest.
I don't see how this proves that God is "external to us", as you stated. confused
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Peace, guest.
I don't see how this proves that God is "external to us", as you stated. confused
Peace Leyna,
2130 ? Do the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?
Heavens and earth are separate entities.
5533 - O you jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and penetrate. You cannot penetrate without authorization.
Above verse (5533) tells us about the barrier between heavens and earth. No one from earth can cross it without His permission i.e. no one from earth can get to Him.
5517 - Lord of the two easts and the two wests.
12 - Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.
From 5517 & 12 I conclude, heavens are contained in one domain and the earth being the other domain. Thus we are external to heavenly domain where Allah lives.
Following verses tells us what happens to those who try to cross the barrier illegally.
5535 - You get bombarded with projectiles of fire and metal, and you cannot win.
378 - They cannot spy on the High Society; they get bombarded from every side.
729 - ?We used to sit there in order to spy. Anyone who listens is pursued by a powerful projectile.
The verse you quoted did not say Allah is close ?, it said ?we? which would logically imply angels. Certainly angels are very close to us, they take our soul from the body, they keep record?. If it had said something similar to 2014 then this reasoning will not hold.
2014 - "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.
Another point to remember is this for us the distance from earth to heavens is unfathomable, whereas, from Allah?s perspective, it is indeed near.
I don?t like to analyze things from Allah?s perspective because I don?t have necessay knowledge to do so. Allah clearly said that knowledge given to us is minute. Therefore, it is a fatal mistake to do such analysis.
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Please pay close attention to the word "Now" in relation to the word "Maybe" in your "accusation".
Now pay close attention to the word "way" in relation to the word "accusing" and answer the question with a straight answer
"I do see this word pop up in an accusing way with just about all your people. Strange idea that one could be jealous of what we are opposing, surely jealousy would mean we join and be one with those people? "
Peace Ayisha,
You should carry the thought over from one sentence to the other and from one post to another within a thread. That is better for reader as well as the writer.
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Salam AK. Certainly I do not take offense at anything you have said at all. I have read the entire Quran and in addition to that I have studied many of its verses, I do not ever say I KNOW it all nor that I can recite it! there is a difference. My point was not that there is no verse in Quran regarding 'what nullifies ablution' but that there is no such thing as 'what nullifies ablution' and I gave reasons why in my post regarding one verse. I am of course open to anyones ideas on this and what I see tomorrow maybe not what I saw today or yesterday, as with any of us that are learning.
The verse in question was 56 and from that verse alone my opinion is that each time you prepare to pray or present yourself to God, you wash. I agree, I will try not to get so frustrated while posting in the future, thank you for your extremely polite slap on the wrist, accepted in the manner it was given peacelol no problem. Honestly I'm pretty bad myself. These two people in particular, I literally got an urge to smash them in a face with a hammer, I asked God to forgive me for my debased thoughts
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lol no problem. Honestly I'm pretty bad myself. These two people in particular, I literally got an urge to smash them in a face with a hammer, I asked God to forgive me for my debased thoughts
p.s. those two people I refer to and those who have been cruel and virulent in their discourse were on another forum, this forum is great I enjoy this forum and don't have a problem with anyone here
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Peace all,
To those who want to perform physical prayers and to those who mock them969
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096.009 Seest thou one who forbids-096.010 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
096.011 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
096.012 Or enjoins Righteousness?
096.013 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
096.014 Knoweth he not that God doth see?
096.015 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
096.016 A lying, sinful forelock!
096.017 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades)
096.018 We will call on the angels of punishment!
096.019 Nay, heed him not But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer!
Do not obey them but get closer to your Lord by Bowing Down (Physical Prayer !)
Peace
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since God is on the straight path 1156; and He has guided us towards that path 6161; how I understand salla is following God closely on that straight path, and not acknowledging that and deviating from that path is kazzaba watawalla.
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Peace all,
To those who want to perform physical prayers and to those who mock them969
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9614
9615
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096.009 Seest thou one who forbids-096.010 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
096.011 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
096.012 Or enjoins Righteousness?
096.013 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
096.014 Knoweth he not that God doth see?
096.015 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
096.016 A lying, sinful forelock!
096.017 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades)
096.018 We will call on the angels of punishment!
096.019 Nay, heed him not But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer!
Do not obey them but get closer to your Lord by Bowing Down (Physical Prayer !)
Peace
Peace belH,
Thank you for reminding us the verses of Allah. Only the good people will take heed. And it will increase the badness of the bad people.
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peace belH,
Still with the same old argument? For the benefit of us all, why not get together with everyone who thinks SJD and RK3 are what you think they are and compile an article studying all occurrences in detail.
You could become famous, as I know of no-one who has done such a thing, let alone proved it.
