Here is my Ultimate Answer to the Top Question of Sunnis and Shiites
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peace belH,
Still with the same old argument? For the benefit of us all, why not get together with everyone who thinks SJD and RK3 are what you think they are and compile an article studying all occurrences in detail.
You could become famous, as I know of no-one who has done such a thing, let alone proved it.
Peace Wakas,
Is that your goal to become famous!!!
Did belH tell you that he want to become famous?
What happened to seeking TRUTH and worshipping Allah Alone?
Bad advise! (my opinion)
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Peace Wakas,
Is that your goal to become famous!!!
Did belH tell you that he want to become famous?
What happened to seeking TRUTH and worshipping Allah Alone?
Bad advise! (my opinion)
Peace guest
I think you read what he said too literally. My tips to you is to read more between the lines. I think we should not read everything literally.
Sometimes people joke or use irony/sarcasm to prove something. If you analyze the the things Wakas said and his arguments in his post, you will see that he used logic and reason to convey a message.
When it comes to worship, i think this belief is a misconception in islam. From my study of the Quran, it tells us that we should serve Allah, not worship Allah. There is a big difference between worshipping and serving. Worshipping = Selfishness. Serving = Altruism. I recommend studying the difference between serving and worship. The word worship is mistranslation.
In my opinion, what Wakas said is good advice. When we claim something about islam, we need to back what we claim with evidence from the Quran. We should cross reference and see the Quran as a whole. When we take something out of context, it will be like judging the color of a human being by looking at the color of his eyes or his hair. If we want to know what the color of a human being is we can not judge the human being only from the color of his eyes or his hair. We have to see the whole human being. Imagine trying to find what the color of a man is by looking at his eyes. Let's say the eyes of the man is blue. If a person judge the color of the man by looking at his eyes, then the person will think that the man is blue. However, if the person looks at the whole human being, he will see that the color of his eyes has nothing to do with the color of the human being (color of his skin). When looking at the man, the person should see all the man. By doing that he will get a more complete perspective of what the color of the man is. He will see the man from a realistic perspective. And he will see that the color of the man is for example white. He will see that the man is a white man.
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Peace belH,
Thank you for reminding us the verses of Allah. Only the good people will take heed. And it will increase the badness of the bad people.
Peace all,
You are welcome; may God reward those who are striving to show the truth.
peace belH,
Still with the same old argument? For the benefit of us all, why not get together with everyone who thinks SJD and RK3 are what you think they are and compile an article studying all occurrences in detail.
You could become famous, as I know of no-one who has done such a thing, let alone proved it.
Peace Wakas,
Can you tell us, what is your understanding of the following verses from chapter 7
( (And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. (11) He said What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud. (12)
Thank you
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Peace guest
I think you read what he said too literally. My tips to you is to read more between the lines. I think we should not read everything literally.
Sometimes people joke or use irony/sarcasm to prove something. If you analyze the the things Wakas said and his arguments in his post, you will see that he used logic and reason to convey a message.
When it comes to worship, i think this belief is a misconception in islam. From my study of the Quran, it tells us that we should serve Allah, not worship Allah. There is a big difference between worshipping and serving. Worshipping = Selfishness. Serving = Altruism. I recommend studying the difference between serving and worship. The word worship is mistranslation.
In my opinion, what Wakas said is good advice. When we claim something about islam, we need to back what we claim with evidence from the Quran. We should cross reference and see the Quran as a whole. When we take something out of context, it will be like judging the color of a human being by looking at the color of his eyes or his hair. If we want to know what the color of a human being is we can not judge the human being only from the color of his eyes or his hair. We have to see the whole human being. Imagine trying to find what the color of a man is by looking at his eyes. Let's say the eyes of the man is blue. If a person judge the color of the man by looking at his eyes, then the person will think that the man is blue. However, if the person looks at the whole human being, he will see that the color of his eyes has nothing to do with the color of the human being (color of his skin). When looking at the man, the person should see all the man. By doing that he will get a more complete perspective of what the color of the man is. He will see the man from a realistic perspective. And he will see that the color of the man is for example white. He will see that the man is a white man.
I have to study this further, but right now when you think that we are slaves of Allah serving him rather than worshiping makes sense. Like I said though this is just an initial reflection. I mean yes, maybe a slave worships his owner, but I'm sure the owner prefers that the slave serve him rather than just worship him. Once again though this is just an initial reflection and I need to study further to understand more.
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peace BelH,
To summarise, from my studies, sjd is an actionable representation of "hearing and obeying" or "giving recognition/acknowledgement", whatever form it takes (unless being used idiomatically of course).
I strongly recommend the links on this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0 -
I have to study this further, but right now when you think that we are slaves of Allah serving him rather than worshiping makes sense. Like I said though this is just an initial reflection. I mean yes, maybe a slave worships his owner, but I'm sure the owner prefers that the slave serve him rather than just worship him. Once again though this is just an initial reflection and I need to study further to understand more.
Peace AK85. Good point. And i think that when we understand the Quranic meaning of Salaat (not sunni and man-made meaning), we will see the difference between worshipping and serving Allah. I recommend this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16137.msg159129#msg159129
Much respect,
David -
peace BelH,
I strongly recommend the links on this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0Thank you for the recommendation; however, the verses I mentioned in my previous post (710-12) were not addressed. If you are kind enough, please enlighten us with your understanding.
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Peace
What happened to seeking TRUTH and worshipping Allah Alone?Peace,
respect.Yeah, i've been wondering the exact same thing. Sunnis don't wanna seek truth and worship Allah alone, whenever i wanna talk about Quran and islam, they point me to a sheik or a scholar. Now why is that?
Peace.
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Peace,
respect.Yeah, i've been wondering the exact same thing. Sunnis don't wanna seek truth and worship Allah alone, whenever i wanna talk about Quran and islam, they point me to a sheik or a scholar. Now why is that?
Peace.
Peace Alen,
It is inappropriate to direct that question at me since I didn?t send you to sheik or a scholar.
Many of your writing takes the position you vs. Sunnis (e.g. ask the Sunnis), this is wrong approach. If you think they are wrong then why do you keep bringing them up in your posts.
If you have a true position, then state that with rationale. It?s that simple. If people don?t agree then they will counter your truth with justification.
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Peace Alen,
It is inappropriate to direct that question at me since I didn?t send you to sheik or a scholar.
Many of your writing takes the position you vs. Sunnis (e.g. ask the Sunnis), this is wrong approach. If you think they are wrong then why do you keep bringing them up in your posts.
If you have a true position, then state that with rationale. It?s that simple. If people don?t agree then they will counter your truth with justification.Peace,
Respect.Sorry, no harm meant.
Sometimes i compare sunnis with muslims because they pretend a lot and i don't or at least try my best to be as authentic as possibluy can. God willing.Peace.
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Peace AK85. Good point. And i think that when we understand the Quranic meaning of Salaat (not sunni and man-made meaning), we will see the difference between worshipping and serving Allah. I recommend this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16137.msg159129#msg159129
Much respect,
DavidPeace David_K,
We need not follow other people blindly. We need to comprehend the matter first, seek Allah?s help for proper resolution, and then take a solid position. Your answer does not demonstrate such process because you came to wrong conclusion. Here is the problem
Serving imply helping someone or offering some service to others i.e. other people is incapable of doing such things. Are you implying you are helping Allah in some way or that He is dependent on you?
Worship on the other hand imply we are worshipping Him for our own good and that it is voluntary i.e. no compulsions.
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Peace David_K,
We need not follow other people blindly. We need to comprehend the matter first, seek Allah?s help for proper resolution, and then take a solid position. Your answer does not demonstrate such process because you came to wrong conclusion. Here is the problem
Serving imply helping someone or offering some service to others i.e. other people is incapable of doing such things. Are you implying you are helping Allah in some way or that He is dependent on you?
Worship on the other hand imply we are worshipping Him for our own good and that it is voluntary i.e. no compulsions.
Of course He is not dependent on us however I am sure He likes it when we help others, and by doing this we are serving Him. Actually there is a verse which even says He does not like disbelief, but he does not need us and we believe for our own benefit. I think we can apply this to serving Him as well. He does not need our service, we serve Him by following the Qu'ran's commands for our benefit.
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Of course He is not dependent on us however I am sure He likes it when we help others, and by doing this we are serving Him. Actually there is a verse which even says He does not like disbelief, but he does not need us and we believe for our own benefit. I think we can apply this to serving Him as well. He does not need our service, we serve Him by following the Qu'ran's commands for our benefit.
I just want to reiterate that I myself am not sure what salaat means yet, right now I am leaning towards it meaning prayer. I think that serving The God is necessary for ourselves, not necessary for The God. I do not dispute that salaat whatever it means is not necessary. However when I reflect on verses which deal with how to approach salaat, it is clear to me that salaat is something one must prepare for and as such this cannot refer to servitude in general. You don't need ritual ablution when you are serving The God by being charitable right.
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Of course He is not dependent on us however I am sure He likes it when we help others, and by doing this we are serving Him. ....
Peace AK85,
Allah gives us DOs & DON'Ts. If you implement dos then you are serving yourself (soul) i.e. doing good to yourself.
The following verses provides clear explanation of the issue at hand
296 - Those who strive, strive for their own good. GOD is in no need of anyone.
4131 - To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth, and we have enjoined on those who received the scripture before you, and enjoined on you, that you shall reverence GOD. If you disbelieve, then to GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is in no need, Praiseworthy.
2388 = Say, "In whose hand is all sovereignty over all things, and He is the only one who can provide help, but needs no help, if you know?"
2740 - The one who possessed knowledge from the book said, "I can bring it to you in the blink of your eye." When he saw it settled in front of him, he said, "This is a blessing from my Lord, whereby He tests me, to show whether I am appreciative or unappreciative. Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good, and if one turns unappreciative, then my Lord is in no need for him, Most Honorable."
4917 - They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by embracing Submission. GOD is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere."
Also, pay close attention to verse 817
817 - It was not you who killed them; GOD is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; GOD is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
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Peace all,
To those who want to perform physical prayers and to those who mock them969
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096.009 Seest thou one who forbids-096.010 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
096.011 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
096.012 Or enjoins Righteousness?
096.013 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
096.014 Knoweth he not that God doth see?
096.015 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
096.016 A lying, sinful forelock!
096.017 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades)
096.018 We will call on the angels of punishment!
096.019 Nay, heed him not But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer!
Do not obey them but get closer to your Lord by Bowing Down (Physical Prayer !)
Peace
Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers merciful one to another. You see them bowing, prostrating, seeking blessing, bounty and good pleasure (of God). Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows strong and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them it may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage(4829)
Genesis 171-4 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
Deuteronomy 56-9 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before Me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them...
Psalm 956 O come, let us worship and bow down let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
Revelations 711-12 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Joshua 76-7 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. 7 And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast Thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!
Numbers 1620-22 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying, 21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. 22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt Thou be wroth with the all of the congregation?
Numbers 206 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.
Matthew 2636-39 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gesthemane, and saith unto his disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be very sorrowful and heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death; tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou Wilt.
Then the man bowed down and worshipped the Lord. (Genesis, 2426)
...So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2930)
and I bowed down and worshiped the Lord. I praised the Lord?(Genesis, 244
.... Then the people bowed down and worshipped...did just what the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron. (Exodus, 1227-2
and they believed. And when they heard that the Lord was concerned about them and had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshipped. (Exodus, 431)
and bowed down...three times, with his face to the ground. (1 Samuel, 2041)
Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, "Amen! Amen!" Then they bowed down and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground. (Nehemiah, 86)
Abram bowed with his face touching the ground...(Genesis, 173)
When Abraham's servant heard what they said, he bowed down to the ground before the Lord. (Genesis, 2452)
Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshipped. (Exodus, 34
When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. (Numbers, 164)
the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened. (Numbers, 244)
Then Joshua bowed to the ground in reverence...(Joshua, 514)
When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The Lord?He is God! The Lord?He is God!"(1 Kings, 1839)
when I bow down in the temple...may the Lord forgive your servant for this. (2 Kings, 51
they bowed low and fell prostrate before the Lord. (1 Chronicles, 2920)
they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshipped and gave thanks to the Lord...(2 Chronicles, 73)
... the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshipped... ordered... to praise the Lord. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 2929-30)
Then he fell to the ground in worship and said ?Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.? (Job, 120-21)
What wrong with physical prayers? But maybe others have different way to pray. In the end its all about praising God and asking for His bounties and favors and guidance and refuge and protectionm however you do it.
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Peace all,
To those who want to perform physical prayers and to those who mock them9609
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9619salam,
however, this is my personal comprehension
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Ponder, in standing/status, your Lord is the one who created.
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He created the human/person like hanging/depending.
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Ponder, and your Lord is the most honorable.
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He is the one who taught by entry/item.
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He taught what the human/person did not know.
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On the contrary, verily the human/person exceeds the limit.
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It is to consider himself self-sufficient/able to know by himself.
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Verily it is to your Lord, the reference.
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Did you see/realize about the one who forbids?
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He is a servant when he establishes the relationship/connection. -
Did you see/realize if he is on the right guidance? -
Or he advised mindfully/with the mindfulness. -
Did you see/realize if he denies as he turned away? -
Doesn?t he know that God is watching? -
On the contrary, if he does not stop, We will certainly scorch in the forehead . -
It is a mind of a denier in progress. -
Let him call up his circles. -
We will summon the ?zabaniyah?/stupid followers. -
On the contrary, don?t follow him, but submit yourself and be close.
please note that v10 is about the 'salat' between a man and his rabb/Lord, not only between a man and his creator, but effectively about an man's dependence on his creator @rabb/Lord, thus He is the reference (v.
may God guide us all the correct way, insha-Allah.
peace
mohammed noh -
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- Did you see/realize about the one who forbids?
- He is a servant when he establishes the relationship/connection.
This translation has changed the entire perception of the verses, by ignoring the role and function of words therein. "Abdan" is the object of verb "yanha" for which reason it has accusative case ending. "Abdan" never means "He is a servant"
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This translation has changed the entire perception of the verses, by ignoring the role and function of words therein. "Abdan" is the object of verb "yanha" for which reason it has accusative case ending. "Abdan" never means "He is a servant"
salam mazhar,
say you are right bravo, but what is your understanding of the verses? brickwall
peace
mohammed nohp.p. i have just discovered the availability of the ignore option button.
