Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
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There is no mention of Jerusalem by name in the Quran. But the Quran gave us many MANY clues that Jerusalem is the city of Abraham. You can go through some of the links that I posted previously.
Just so you know as well the Quran makes no reference to the fact that Mecca (which I believe to be the present day city of Petra) was ever the place where the Sacred Masjid resided.Peace,
Kevin
I have been reading the thread, and now it is 30 pages. I do not want to be impolite or cheeky, but I don't trust myself to find exactly which links are those you mention.
Other than that if Jerusalem was so, so, so important why not mention it?
In fact, the reluctance in the whole of Qur'an to mention places by name is remarkable. Which to me it shows that particular places are not particularly important. But even so, it mentions mekka, but not Jerusalem.
As to Mekka being Petra, what was the name of Petra in Arabic or in the language spoken at Petra?
Salaam
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Bros Kevin and Huruf,
but there is a mention in the Quran of Daru Assalam, which transliterates as House/Home of Peace close enough to Jerusalem... (cannot remember the verse / chapter (aya / sura) position
but is the Jerusalem in the ME the correct one, or the one pazuzu is unvbeiling in Asir...
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I have been reading the thread, and now it is 30 pages. I do not want to be impolite or cheeky, but I don't trust myself to find exactly which links are those you mention.
Other than that if Jerusalem was so, so, so important why not mention it?
In fact, the reluctance in the whole of Qur'an to mention places by name is remarkable. Which to me it shows that particular places are not particularly important. But even so, it mentions mekka, but not Jerusalem.
As to Mekka being Petra, what was the name of Petra in Arabic or in the language spoken at Petra?
Salaam
I understand where you are coming from. If Jerusalem was sooo important why not mention it??? I think it was because it was sooo important God decided not to mention it. Could you imagine the 'true holy city' in the hands of the present day Arabs (the bad ones not the good ones)???? I think God deliberately decided to conceal the name to prevent massive confusion and chaos in the future.
Instead he decided to leave clear signs for future generations.... for example
2158 ( As-Safa and Al-Marwah ) are amongst God's emblems. Therefore, whosoever makes Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error by oscillating between them. Whoever volunteers for goodness; indeed God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.
2159 Surely those who conceal what We have sent down to them which was clear, and the guidance, after God had made it clear in the book; these will be cursed by God and be cursed by those who curse; (The book here is implied as the previous scriptures)
As-safa and Al marwah are believed to be by some a reference to Mt.Sion and Mt.Moriah. Some also believe it to be the reference to the Rock outcropping in the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of Tablets.
396 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
397 In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.
398 Say, "O people of the book, why do you reject God's signs, while God is witness over what you do?" ( coincidently right after the mention of Bakka this verse comes up)
399 Say, "O people of the book, why do you repel from the path of God those who acknowledge? You wish to twist it while you were witness. God is not oblivious to what you do."
Question How can you bear witness to something that you do not know?????? So obviously the people of the book are fully aware of what the sign Bakka truly was.
I also posted other signs regarding the Qibla as well....
If you're looking for Quranic proof I already posted this up weeks ago ....
The historical fact of Pharaoh and Haman should be more than enough evidence to prove that Joseph and his descendants dwelt in Egypt as it as also claimed in the previous scripture.
Haman was a master builder. His job was to build 'high platforms' for Pharaoh. I wonder what type of high platforms they were talking about??? P
Regrading my belief that Bakka resided in Jerusalem and not Arabia this can be easily answered by the book which we as God Alone Monotheists read everyday. The Quran. Lets look at some verses in the Quran that talk about 'the true Qibla'
2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
2143 As such, We have made you a balanced/impartial nation so that you may be witnesses over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. We did not make the focal point that you came on except so that we know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a big deal indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your acknowledgement. God is Kind and Compassionate over the people.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
Look at the quote in red and tell me what that quote means.....
What is God talking about when he said "Those who have been given the book" ???? Who are these people who know the truth about this Qibla???
hmmm... you know what lets get back to that later lets look further into the Quran for some more clues...
Here's God instructing Muhammad that if he was in doubt about what has been sent down to him to ask those who have been given the Book (scripture ) before him
1094 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been studying the book from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.
Here are other verses showing to us who are the people who have been given the Scripture previously....
365 "O people of the book, why do you debate us about Abraham when the Torah and the Injeel were not sent down except after him? Do you not reason?"
Who are the people of the book??? Who are the people that have been given the Torah and the Injeel???? Is this a clear reference to the Jews and Christians????
Do the Jews and the Christians know the Truth????
2109 Many of the people of the book have wished that they could return you to being unappreciative after your acknowledgement, out of envy from themselves after the truth was made clear to them. You shall forgive them and overlook it until God brings His will. God is capable of all things.
370 O people of the book, why do you reject God's signs while you are bearing witness?
399 Say, "O people of the book, why do you repel from the path of God those who acknowledge? You wish to twist it while you were witness. God is not oblivious to what you do."
3199 Among the people of the book are those who acknowledge God, what was sent down to you and what was sent down to them. They revere God and they do not purchase with God's signs a cheap price. These will have their reward with their Lord. God is quick in computation.
515 People of the book, Our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you much of what you were hiding from the book, and to ignore over much. A light has come to you from God and a clarifying book.
2947 Similarly, We have sent down to you the Book. Thus, those whom We have given the book will acknowledge it. Also, some of your people will acknowledge it. The only ones who mock Our signs are the ingrates.
It is quite clear from several verses in the Quran that the People of The Book are more aware of what really is being taught in the Quran than those who are not of the People of the Book.
All these points are clear signs to me that Bakka (which is WELL KNOWN AMONG THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) resides in Jerusalem and NOT MECCA. The establishment of the Kabba in the city of Mecca is to me a failed attempt perpetrated by those who existed AFTER Prophet Muhammad's death to create a fake history that Mecca is the city of Abraham when those who have the scripture know that Jerusalem was the city of Abraham. This has been known for
thousands of years!!!! Long before the Quran even existed!!!! There is no historical proof pre-dating before the Quran that shows to us that Mecca was ever a place of pilgrimage or a place that is well known among the Jews and Christians!!!! Zero! Zip! Nada! None!!! All proofs in the Quran lead to Jerusalem and the temple Mount (Mt. Moriah (marwah in Arabic one of the signs stated in the Quran along with Safa which some believe to be Mt. Sion)) )If you need any more information and I'm sure that you and others still have many questions you can read the book "The Natural Republic" Chapter 18 "Pilgrimage Th e Lost Legacy of Abraham" and you can also check out this forum thread for more information...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.10
In this thread you will also find en-lighting historical proofs that there was a lot of covering up done by the Arabs during early Islam. You will find that the city of Petra was perhaps the real Mecca. That early Islamic cultures started to build Qiblas facing a whole bunch of different directions none of which faced the present day Mecca!!!! You will also find that earliest mosques recorded FACED JERUSALEM and not MECCA.
www.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf
http//www.indipress.ca/feature.htmlJerusalem is the true dwelling place of Abraham. The Jews and the Christians are fully aware of this and they themselves would acknowledge it. Mecca is not known to the Jews nor Christians. This place was SOOOO unimportant that it is not even in there present Scriptures. Which practicing Jew or Christian would bear witness to Mecca being the historic place of Pilgrimage??? Where is the evidence in history and in the previous scripture??? These are the type of questions we as Quran Alone Monotheists should ask ourselves.
Peace,
Kevin
To the best of my knowledge and by using the Quran as a reference and history there is no doubt in my mind that Jerusalem is the true holy city and not Mecca.
For further information regarding on the city of Petra you can check this link....
http//free-minds.org/where-was-mohammedand these
http//nabataea.net/holycity.html
www.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf (this a summary on the book 'Quranic Geography ' )
Peace,
Kevin
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So basically brother you interpret ?luxurious dwellings? to mean natural dwellings very interesting twist brother. Well then that is your view. My view is that it means buildings and not flora since this will be repetitive in the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
Salaam Kevin
Quran does not say ?luxurious dwellings?; that's another instance of Natural Republic translating
(adapting) the Qur'an to suit their desires, and you think now you can go on to criticise those who expose the great forgery and insist that the distorted translation provides proof that Egypt is the Msr of the Qur'an >(Brother my journey is finished in regards to knowing the fundamentals in what gets us into paradise. Do you think that God would put me in hell for not practicing the correct number of prays unknowingly , or that I will go to hell for believing in the wrong Qibla. These are not the fundamentals that get us into paradise brother. The fundamentals are
- Worshipping God and God alone
- Not associating beings with him
- Righteous deeds
I believe that learning does not, or should not stop until one's last breath, whereas you have chosen to ossify by giving up on the pursuit of knowledge; just go to show how different we are you and I. You apparently think by following the three steps above you have achieved perfection, but did you pay attention to what comes under 'rightous deeds? Actually you answered it here What gets us into hell brother is deliberately hiding the truth. Those who hide the truth while they know the truth are doomed to fail. If you know something is incorrect and yet you push on with arrogance you have already condemned yourself to the fire unless you repent for your sin and arrogance
Do you know what is most hateful in the sight of Allla To say what you do not do. Not only that you are angry with Pazuzu for exposing lies even though he is quoting scholars who have done research on this subject, yet you refues to contemplate on his version of events ???These are the main things that get us into paradise. Rituals are meant for people who have knowledge of them. Those who are aware of the scripture it is binding upon them to follow the rituals. Those who are not then it is not binding upon them but rather the three fundamentals are only binding upon them.
That may be a convienient excuse for you but to preach this on the forum and encourage others to follow your opinion amounts to leading people astray. God asks us to enter a 'race for goodness', but you choose to walk instead of running; is that wise?
Salaam -
Bros Kevin and Huruf,
but there is a mention in the Quran of Daru Assalam, which transliterates as House/Home of Peace close enough to Jerusalem... (cannot remember the verse / chapter (aya / sura) position
but is the Jerusalem in the ME the correct one, or the one pazuzu is unvbeiling in Asir...
Dar as-salaam may apply to many things and many places. Anybody can call something he o rshe deems so "dar as-salaam". It is far from conclusive to assign it to one single specific place unless it is made clear in the context the place of the many that could be, that is meant.
Too many things in the Qur'an have been taken for granted in spite of being merely interpetations or attributions of the reader.
Salaam
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I am sorry, but the many attributions to Jerusalem, as far as I can see, rest on the previous interpetation that the books of the bible as they are are completely right and the interpretation given to them as well is competely right and all of it from God and without contamination from human intervention (something which I do not believe is so) and once all that taken for grated aplied to the Qur'an.
On the other hand I feel aversion to idolizing cities or places and as far as Jerusalem is concerned, I am put off by that feeling of idolazation of it. I have not been to Jerusalem or Mecca so I do not know how they compare, but the idolization of Jerusalem simly puts me off. Mekkas, as far as I can feel it is just for the hajj and otherwise forgotten, but the Jerusalem thing to me feels sick.
Every place in existence should be sacred just as everything should be sacred as God's creation. God is God everywhere and no more in one place than in another.
Salaam
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I am sorry, but the many attributions to Jerusalem, as far as I can see, rest on the previous interpetation that the books of the bible as they are are completely right and the interpretation given to them as well is competely right and all of it from God and without contamination from human intervention (something which I do not believe is so) and once all that taken for grated aplied to the Qur'an.
On the other hand I feel aversion to idolizing cities or places and as far as Jerusalem is concerned, I am put off by that feeling of idolazation of it. I have not been to Jerusalem or Mecca so I do not know how they compare, but the idolization of Jerusalem simly puts me off. Mekkas, as far as I can feel it is just for the hajj and otherwise forgotten, but the Jerusalem thing to me feels sick.
Every place in existence should be sacred just as everything should be sacred as God's creation. God is God everywhere and no more in one place than in another.
Salaam
bravo
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Peace huruf,
my neurons got entangled regarding dar u assalam...
you are right it is not a place on earth, but from most interpretations a synonym for paradise...
refer ayas 6127 and 1025
6127 They will have the abode of peace (dar u assalam) with their Lord; He is their supporter because of what they used to do.
1025 God calls to the abode of peace (dar u assalam), and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
Thanks for your vigilance...
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1025 God calls to the abode of peace (dar u assalam), and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
Quoting myself here, 1025 in my view is better translated like this
1025 God calls to the abode of peace (dar u assalam), and He guides those who wish to a straight path.
the responsibility of guidance being on the guided...
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I am sorry, but the many attributions to Jerusalem, as far as I can see, rest on the previous interpetation that the books of the bible as they are are completely right and the interpretation given to them as well is competely right and all of it from God and without contamination from human intervention (something which I do not believe is so) and once all that taken for grated aplied to the Qur'an.
On the other hand I feel aversion to idolizing cities or places and as far as Jerusalem is concerned, I am put off by that feeling of idolazation of it. I have not been to Jerusalem or Mecca so I do not know how they compare, but the idolization of Jerusalem simly puts me off. Mekkas, as far as I can feel it is just for the hajj and otherwise forgotten, but the Jerusalem thing to me feels sick.
Every place in existence should be sacred just as everything should be sacred as God's creation. God is God everywhere and no more in one place than in another.
Salaam
Salam, huruf,
May be it helps to conclude
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/095.%20At%20Teen/95.1.gif
Swearing is by the Fig and the Olive,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/095.%20At%20Teen/95.2.gif
and by the long stretching and parallel/rift rock of the Peninsula of Sinai,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/095.%20At%20Teen/95.3.gif
and by this Secured City.In the above location which city seems to enjoy the qualitative trait of having been permanently secured?
Mecca; it is safe from the Eastern Rift Valley-Fault Line.
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Many Thanks Pazuzu..
your article is an eye opening and I really hope you don't give up and continue ...
Peace
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Salam Bro Layth
I read your article on "Kingdom of Isreal" and I find that there is a missing link.
AQ-02102
And they followed what the devils recited over the Kingdom of Solomon. And not Solomon who disbelieved but the devils disbelieved. They teach the people magic and what was sent down to the two angels, Harut & Marut, in Babil. And not they both teach any one unless they say, "We are only trials, so do not disbelieve." They learn from those two that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of ALLAH. And they learn what harms them and does not benefit them. And certainly they knew that whoever purchased it could not have in the hereafter any share. And surely evils is what they sold themselves, if they only knew.The a/m verse tell us that the Children of Isreal was in Babil , prior to their journey to "The Muqaddas". Babylon was the "Misr"-Citadel-Fortress.
To support the above verse,
AQ-0520
And when Moses said to his people "O my people, remember the favours of ALLAH upon you when HE placed Prophets amoung you and made you Kings and HE gave you what HE had not given to anyone from the worlds."The a/m verse tell us that the Children of Isreal after Joseph was made Prophets and Kings and as such they ruled the land of Babylon and they were prosperous until they trangressed and thats where the wrath fo ALLAH befalls them, read AQ-174-5
There are Archeological & Historical facts that tell us the children of israel was enslaves in Babylon.
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EXODUS - 0521-26
ALLAH sent Moses as a reedemer to the Israelites and they were told to enter "The Muqaddas". In order to that a military expedition has to be carried out. The Israelites refused and they were punished - barred from entering "The Muqaddasa"for 40 years. -
AFTER 40 YEARS - AQ-02246-251
After 40 years ALLAH sent a Prophet together with Thalut, the new King of Isreal, and a young warrior, David , whereby, David killed Jalut (Goliath). The Isrealites enter "The Muqaddasa"victorious. ALLAH says in the AQ-17104-
And WE said after him to the children of israel, "Dwell in the land, then when comes the promise of the hereafter, WE will bring you in gathering."
The Muqaddasa mentioned in AQ-0521 was in South Arabia near the Land of Sheba AQ-2720-27.
- FINAL WARNING TO THE ISRAELITES
AQ-1706-07
Then when WE gave back to you your independence from them and WE supplied you with wealth and sons and WE made you more influential.
If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the temples as they did the first time and they will strike down all that was raised up.
ALLAH KNOWS BEST
This is only for your info, Salam Bro
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Salaam Pazuzu,
This was a great research. It is making lots of sense. I have to verify some parts of it though.
God bless you.