Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
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Salaam bro Nabil
I too got this from a list of sites, given by a member here, and I pasted it here for all those who continue to hold Egypt as Misr and claim that Pazuzu is deluded .
Like many others on this site I am anxiously looking forward to more information as, unlike Margret S. King, Pazuzu gives abundant references from the Quran
peaceSalaam IMHO
Who claims Pazuzu is deluded?
Do you think that King' heory agrees with Pazuzu's? Would you say that King claims Pazuzu is deluded?
To disagree with a theory on specific points and critically discuss it is more beneficial to the theory holder (i.e Pazuzu) than clapping and agreeing on every point then post another theory that ruins Pazuzu's theory and clap for it too. This means that such a person does not understand what Pazuzu wants to say.
King extends the land of Misr to contain, beside Egypt, Mesopotamia, Iraq now. So no rejection of the whole story taking place in Northern Arabia and Egypt. She does not say "Misr" is a citadel or it is a place in Yemen.
Pazuzu, on the other hand, believes that the whole story took place in Southern Arabia. He even claims that Aramaic was the language of Southern Arabia, a matter I am sure King will not agree with. -
Salaam IMHO
Who claims Pazuzu is deluded?
Do you think that King' heory agrees with Pazuzu's? Would you say that King claims Pazuzu is deluded?
To disagree with a theory on specific points and critically discuss it is more beneficial to the theory holder (i.e Pazuzu) than clapping and agreeing on every point then post another theory that ruins Pazuzu's theory and clap for it too.The article is a translation (and at the same time a summary) of a book called "The Call of the Surat The Search for Pharoah".
PuzazuIs he the author of this book?
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Purpose was simply to point out that it is not he who is propounding a theory. He is merely pasting the contents of a book already available.
Thanks to Wakas that he gave many books to this Forum but did not start cut and paste from a whole lengthy book.
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Salaam Sis Samia
Who claims Pazuzu is deluded?
Now you can't say that you did not read all the posts on this thread or you wouldnt ask this question o
Pls. read the posts from Layth and Noon and Mazher and work out if what I said is true or not.Do you think that King' heory agrees with Pazuzu's? Would you say that King claims Pazuzu is deluded?
I am reading with interest all posts from Pazuzu and I support him for challenging the status quo,
I am sure Margrat King would be pleased to know that Pazuzu is doing what she too believes in; If a story does not match historical fact, then the story is not true. Should you throw the story away? Not at all. You should keep looking until you find the truth. Inside of every fabricated story is a kernel of truth. You should look for the kernel, no matter what it involves. ?Seek, and thou shalt find.?In my opinion she would certainly not claim that Pazuzu is deluded, as she too is seeking answers from the Qur'an and is sure that Pyramids of Egypt did not belong to Pharoahs the Quran tells us that Pharaoh?s entire civilization was destroyed. God destroyed all of his buildings, and everything on the surface of the earth that was created by him and his civilization.
To disagree with a theory on specific points and critically discuss it is more beneficial to the theory holder (i.e Pazuzu) than clapping and agreeing on every point then post another theory that ruins Pazuzu's theory and clap for it too. This means that such a person does not understand what Pazuzu wants to say.
I would advice you to read my posts on this thread and you will notice that I appreciate scrutiny by the followers of the Qur'an, and as Pazuzu is no longer willing to engage in this thread, I and those who support his theory have been replying on this thread as to why its worth considering. hmm
BTW you appear to be more upset with the pasting of Margrets, I did not past it to refute Pazuzu's theory but to show to those who religiously claim that Egypt of today was Misr and the place of Yousuff(as) and Musa(as). They should pay attention to one who is taking her cue from the Qur'an about this historical era
Now look at today?s Egypt. Are the pyramids still standing? Of course they are. Some of them date to the early third millennium B.C.E. So, these could not be the pyramids of the Exodus story. All of the pyramids after 2667 B.C.E. were built of stone.King extends the land of Misr to contain, beside Egypt, Mesopotamia, Iraq now. So no rejection of the whole story taking place in Northern Arabia and Egypt. She does not say "Misr" is a citadel or it is a place in Yemen.
As I said several time in my post that what Pazuzu says is a combination of interpretation of the Qur'an and archelogy, as well as his own opinion and even if I do not 100% agree with him I am pleased to see his version of the events and I am waiting for this whole subject to finish then only I will discuss which are the things that I agree with Pazuzu or not.
Pazuzu, on the other hand, believes that the whole story took place in Southern Arabia. He even claims that Aramaic was the language of Southern Arabia, a matter I am sure King will not agree with.
Pazuz has a right to give his view of events, and again I will not comments until he fininshes all of his posts on related subjects.
For now I am not pasting a quote from Mazher to compare;
Qur'aan lays down a principle. Just know that some incident did happen, do not go and look for microscopic details to waste your own and other's time by throwing arrows in darkness.Where as Margrat King says
So I decided to closely examine the Quran?s versions of the stories of the prophets, and found language that was often not Arabic. It is so straightforward and honest, that the unsuspecting reader might never grasp why we are being given such information that sometimes seems trivial. I asked myself, if God is the Creator of the universe, He certainly wouldn?t be conversing in trivialities. So, I decided to analyze the words and realized their roots are in the ancient Near Eastern languages that ceased to exist long before the biblical authors began writing their saga.
peace
PS I hope brother Nabeel will not see it as a separate subject. On the other hand this could be seen as more on this subject as I feel the first step is to accept that today's Egypt is not Msr and then move on to other issues. -
PS I hope brother Nabeel will not see it as a separate subject. On the other hand this could be seen as more on this subject as I feel the first step is to accept that today's Egypt is not Msr and then move on to other issues.
Aye IMHO and Peace
if I were to disclose my most controversial views, I do not think you or anyone else on this forum will wish to be associated (at least publicly) with me ;D
now thanks but only one possibility, either Abraham was from Mesopotamia, or from Yemen... so the stories are mutually exclusive...
but I am extremely interested in what pazuzu has to say... for reasons you are quoting and some...
now why would we not ask a Muslim Jinn who lived long enough with a lifespan that stretched to the time of Abraham the whole true story?
and I know those who do not believe that Jinns exist and are non human "plasma" beings will answer because the Jinns are metaphors...
but as I believe they do exist, I have always wondered why the Muslims of them have not made clear contact with humans? and maybe there are valid reasons for that, I think (speculative of course, as with anything to do with the unseen)... -
Aye IMHO and Peace
if I were to disclose my most controversial views, I do not think you or anyone else on this forum will wish to be associated (at least publicly) with me ;D
Salaam
Everyone has the right to hold a view and a choice to share is with others or not, but I am sure you do not care if any of us would associate with you, as long as Allah(swt) is happy with your inner most views prbut only one possibility, either Abraham was from Mesopotamia, or from Yemen... so the stories are mutually exclusive...
The subject of this thread is Who Was the Pharoah of Moses, we can always start another thread Where was Mukaam e Ibrahim
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Salaam IMHO
...Would you say that King claims Pazuzu is deluded?Here is a reply from Ms King( hmm to Pazuzu)
susianapress says
November 18, 2011 at 546 pm
I read your blog postings and am so pleased that you are thinking, as Muslims should be thinking about what they are reading in the Quran. The Quran tells us where the real Pharaoh was, and you are correct, he was not in today?s Egypt. His civilization existed a millennium prior to the biblical chronology, and the ancient civilization that we find in today?s Egypt is just part of the extensive holdings of the pharaohs who existed in other parts of the Middle East during the early- to mid-third millennium BCE. The word ?Misr? was a reference to an urbanized settlement that was established initially as a military settlement. The roots of the word are in ancient Akkadian. The civilization of pharaohs during that era were conquerors and they had military outposts in various parts of the Asian continent, perhaps as far as the Indus Valley and Afghanistan. They persecuted the beni Isra?il in the location of Moses (real name Musa) because they feared their power and were afraid that the beni Isra?il, who were large in numbers, would one day overthrow their civilization, just as every conqueror fears the indigenous people he has subdued. Apparently, it had been foretold in a prophecy, but the tyrannical pharaoh of the Exodus story, refused to believe it. As the Quran makes clear, everything of the Pharaoh in question was destroyed, which included all his buildings that he constructed. I give the exact location of the Exodus, and show you the archaeological remains of the real pharaoh. Archaeologists simply have failed to connect the dots because they are limited in imagination (tunnel-vision), and they never took the legends of Middle Eastern people seriously. In every legend, there is a kernel of truth. Sadly, Muslims have not been reading their Quran carefully, and they were instructed to read from the cradle to the grave. They are not equipped to challenge the non-Islamic world because they don?t read much, and they don?t understand the era before the rise of Islam. They have, unfortunately, listened to Christian Arabs, who quite honestly, are completely clueless about their own history and are also afraid of their own loss of power. The Jews are no different. They actually believe that Moses was one of their people, but he wasn?t, and the ancient Hebrews were not limited to the Jews. Once again, the key is in terminology. The Jews were from Judaea, and they liked tracing their roots to the Benjaminites who settled in Palestine much later in history, long after the era of Moses. As the Quran states, the Jewish scribes took the stories of the prophets out of their correct location and chronology.It?s about time Muslims start to take archaeology more seriously. They regard archaeology as a science that enables them to attract tourists to their lands and therefore become tour guides. Very sad indeed.
I am sorry that I have not posted anything recently, but there is ample evidence of the location of the Exodus in my book. It was published in Arabic by Dar Tlass in Damascus in 2010(they forgot to add the reference pages and bibliography and forgot to update their website, so you won?t see it listed). My impressions are that the Syrians are not very interested in reading about religious history, so they are not reading the book. They obviously have other things on their minds right now. However, I am in the process of publishing my next book in the U.S. The publisher will probably be done within the next month or two. That one will rock the foundation of religious scholarship by the roots, because it will explain exactly who the Messiah ?Isa was and how he foretold the future arrival of the Prophet Muhammad. The proof will be very convincing and the evidence will be extensive. In the introduction of the book, I will summarize some of the facts that took me to the real location of the Exodus, so the readers will comprehend more fully who the Messiah was, and why he was not born in Palestine. I show evidence for the exact location of his birth and who his real followers were. If the scribes in Palestine during the mid-first century BCE lied about the Exodus, then why wouldn?t they lie about the Messiah? Heresay was very popular in the Near East under the beni Isra?il. They were prone to it, and they were all over the Fertile Crescent. That is why the final covenant was given to the Arabs of the lineage of Isma?il as the final rulers, and Palestinian Jerusalem was never to rise again. You mention Kamal Salibi in your blog as someone who challenged thinking. He saw things through Christian eyes, nonetheless, and I wouldn?t take what he wrote seriously. I have read his works, and I am not impressed with his evidence that is very speculative. I believe in hard evidence, like the evidence that took me to the real location of the Exodus. The real followers of the Messiah ?Isa and the Prophet Yahya described the Exodus in the same location that the evidence took me to, and that will be given in my upcoming book. I discovered that added bonus only recently, and incorporated it in my book.
Once my next book will be published, it will be available as an e-book, so it will be possible to download it from the publisher. Once the book is published, I will mention it in my blog, but I will also have a separate website for it. It will be available through Amazon and Barnes and Noble, as well as by the publisher
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/ask a Muslim Jinn who lived long enough with a lifespan that stretched to the time of Abraham the whole true story?
Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins yay
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Peace,
Would someone care to post real evidence instead of links to mindless rants and conjecture.
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refute Misr meant the land of Egypt in ancient Semitic languages
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refute Misr meant the land of Egypt and was understood as such in Arabic at time of revelation
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refute Misr meant the land of Eqypt in corresponds between Egypt king and neighbors Amarna letters
simply search mi-i-ri in TEXTS http//oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amarna/corpus
It appears on 119 different tablets/letters as KUR (land) Misri or LUGAL KUR (king land) Misri -
refute Sennacherib Prism Column 3 mentions Jerusalem
http//www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism3.html
18 As for Hezekiah the Judahite, 19 who did not submit to my yoke forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as 20 the small towns in their area, 21 which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams 22 and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, 23 by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 24 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, 25 horses, mules, asses, camels, 26 cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them 27 and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird 28 I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. 29 I threw up earthworks against him? 30 the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. 31 His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land, and 32 to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, 33 Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-b?l, 34 king of Gaza, I gave (them). And thus I diminished his land. 35 I added to the former tribute, 36 and I lad upon him the surrender of their land and imposts?gifts for my majesty. 37 As for Hezekiah, 38 the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and 39 the Arabs and his mercenary troops which he had brought in to strengthen 40 Jerusalem , his royal city, 41 deserted him. In addition to the thirty talents of gold and 42 eight hundred talents of silver, gems, antimony, 43 jewels, large carnelians, ivory-inlaid couches, 44 ivory-inlaid chairs, elephant hides, elephant tusks, 45 ebony, boxwood, all kinds of valuable treasures, 46 as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female 47 musicians, which he had brought after me 48 to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute 49 and to accept servitude, he dispatched his messengers.
- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean_img.htm
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/large/color_lg_jpeg/fig04_c_lg.jpg
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- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean_img.htm
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/large/color_lg_jpeg/fig04_c_lg.jpg
It was the black people of aksum (ethiopians) who ruled southern arabia peninsula region which is now called as Yemen...
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...
Documentary of their plight..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MqjbkwVEISalam / Peace
- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
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Peace IMHO,
"Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins"
I suppose you mean this as a joke, but I will be careful if in your shoes, unless you are a real Believer, jinns do not take lightly being treated with ridicule...
as for laziness, you do not know my circumstances... so the same here too...
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It was the black people of aksum (ethiopians) who ruled southern arabia peninsula region which is now called as Yemen...
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...Salaam Jafar
Yes it's an outrage the way some who call themselves Muslims treat black people, but you seem to be very partial to those murderous landgrabbers,who call their stolen land Eretz Yisroel. One injustice from one people does not cancel the oppression of a different people and Allah (swt) says in Aal-e-`Imran Chapter 3 Verse 119"O ye who believe! take not others than your own people as intimate friends; they will not fail to corrupt you. They love to see you in trouble. Hatred has already shown itself through the utterances of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still. We have made clear to you Our commandments, if you will understand."
He further cautions us in Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 Verse 140
Those who take disbelievers for friends rather than believers. Do they seek honour at their hands? Then let them remember that all honour belongs to Allah.and He instructs us in Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 Verse 136
O ye who believe! be strict in observing justice, and be witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or against parents and kindred. Whether he be rich or poor, Allah is more regardful of them both than you are. Therefore follow not low desires so that you may be able to act equitably. And if you conceal the truth or evade it, then remember that Allah is well aware of what you do. -
Peace IMHO,
"Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins"
I suppose you mean this as a joke, but I will be careful if in your shoes, unless you are a real Believer, jinns do not take lightly being treated with ridicule...
as for laziness, you do not know my circumstances... so the same here too...
Salaam bro Nabil
No!!! I did not call YOU lazy! I was referring to all those, who have given up hope on human beings to do the research and find out the truth.
As for joking about Jinns, I believe, if they can understand the Quran and are able to differentiate between believers and non believers, so can they sense some lighthearted humour.
Why on earth would I ridicule Allah's creatons ) -
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...
Documentary of their plight..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MqjbkwVEISalam / Peace
Salaam
Why don't you start a new thread those who do far worse than what the Zionists did/do to the arabs in Israel.
It will benefit all to see how many nations and tribes are commiting atrocities and who backs those nations and who finance and support them and how we humans can persuade UN to uphold human rights.
As for this thread it is a quest for the truth, so please do not try to tarnish and divert it with your politics.
peace -
Peace,
Would someone care to post real evidence instead of links to mindless rants and conjecture.
susianapress says
November 20, 2011 at 623 am
I would recommend that you read, as a starter, ?The Bible Unearthed? by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman published in 2001. They are Israeli archaeologists, and they prove that the Exodus could not have happened anywhere in Sinai..
You should also read the 1997 book titled the ?Exodus, The Egyptian Evidence? by Ernest Frerichs and Leonard Lesko, eds. The book has the writings of the various scholars who examined all the evidence and they too obliterate the Exodus from Egypt story. All the well known and most respected archaeologists have accepted the story as a fabrication. Anyone reading Biblical Archaeology magazine would realize that honest scholars have now come to terms with the fact that the Bible distorted the epic of the Israelites. Unfortunately, it is evangelical Christianity and the orthodox Jews who have had difficulty accepting the discoveries.
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/
( ( ( ( (Thus was the Truth vindicated and that which they were doing was made vain. (11 Thus were they there defeated and brought low. (119) And the wizards fell down prostrate, (120) Crying We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, (121) The Lord of Moses and Aaron.
hail -
susianapress says
November 20, 2011 at 623 am
I would recommend that you read, as a starter, ?The Bible Unearthed? by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman published in 2001. They are Israeli archaeologists, and they prove that the Exodus could not have happened anywhere in Sinai..Peace IMHO,
Who cares if they are Israeli or not. I posted for you hard evidence and asked you to stay on topic refute my above last post or to post specific evidence which you find compelling not for links to bible, books, and internet rants.
You should also read the 1997 book titled the ?Exodus, The Egyptian Evidence? by Ernest Frerichs and Leonard Lesko, eds. The book has the writings of the various scholars who examined all the evidence and they too obliterate the Exodus from Egypt story. All the well known and most respected archaeologists have accepted the story as a fabrication. Anyone reading Biblical Archaeology magazine would realize that honest scholars have now come to terms with the fact that the Bible distorted the epic of the Israelites. Unfortunately, it is evangelical Christianity and the orthodox Jews who have had difficulty accepting the discoveries.
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/Again, post evidence which is most compelling to you (one or two of their best examples will suffice) not rants by Margaret King who is not here to defend herself nor can you defend her information-less blog or claim "ALL" archaeologists have accepted the story as fabrication -- the Amarna letters and Sennacherib Prism proves them wrong likewise the thread is about everything revolving around Yemen which is clearly been proven false by the non evidence and evidence to the contrary. If you want to start a new thread saying events happened elsewhere like Iraq then do so.
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Peace IMHO,
Who cares if they are Israeli or not. I posted for you hard evidence and asked you to stay on topic refute my above last post or to post specific evidence which you find compelling not for links to bible, books, and internet rants.
Again, post evidence which is most compelling to you (one or two of their best examples will suffice) not rants by Margaret King who is not here to defend herself nor can you defend her information-less blog or claim "ALL" archaeologists have accepted the story as fabrication -- the Amarna letters and Sennacherib Prism proves them wrong likewise the thread is about everything revolving around Yemen which is clearly been proven false by the non evidence and evidence to the contrary. If you want to start a new thread saying events happened elsewhere like Iraq then do so.
Salaam
The thread Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
According to Pazuzu he was from Yemen, but one thing is certain the current Egypt is not Msr, as the Qur'an says what ever Pharoah built was destroyed and none left standing(not exact words)and we all know the pyramids are still standing and that's how I refute your assertion and that's not ranting. peace