Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
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Thank you theNabster for your important and balanced words!
I wish more of people here could think like that!
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Salam,
IMHO wrote Thank you for your response. Ok if that's the case then how and when did they end up in Palestine?
The Kingdom of Israel that rose, and was later destroyed, was that of proximity to Sheba which was in Yemen.
As for the Children of Israel in Palestine and elsewhere, they ended up there after leaving the land of Egypt and God splitting them into groups.
7168 And We divided them through the land as nations. From them are the upright, and from them are other than that. And We tested them with good things and bad, perhaps they will return.
Samia wrote So you believe that bani Israel left with Moses to Yemen? Where were they before?
No. Moses was not with them as he and Aaron abaondoned them after they refused to enter the Holy Land.
524-25 They said ?O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!? He said ?My Lord, I do not possess except myself and my brother, so separate between us and between the wicked people.?
As pointed out in 7168 above, the Children of Israel split into groups after this incident, with the most prominent group forming in Southern Arabia generation later and establishing the Kingdom.
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Peace huruf, open a separate thread on this since this one is all over the place.
12498 yughthu
31347 l-ghaytha
42284 l-ghaytha
572015 ghaythin4228 and He the one who He sent down the rain??? from after what they despaired and spreads His mercy and He The Guardian The Praiseworthy
Read in context, rain does not belong in any of those verses nor does rain make any sense which after desolation/despair is its opposite certainly not rain/water ? this is rain?
222 the one who made to you the earth a resting place and the sky a canopy and sent down from the sky rain/water so brought forth with it from the fruits provision to you so not set up to God equals and you knowing
699 and He the one who sent down from the sky rain/water
12.49.
I am at a loss as to how one can say that rain does not fit in those passages. Of course it fits, it is the thing that fits, and of course it makes a lot of sense, far more sense than the abundance thing, for ,besides, rain has always been a herald of abundance, first comes rain, then comes abundance. If one today is enclosed in a city and sees rain as "bad whether" I suppose one would prefer that the Qur'an in those passages would say abundance, but for somebody who has not lost the link to the earth from which he or she draws his or her very nourishment and means of living, rain is foremost -for ages it has been considered a god, a very important God-, EXCEPT , of course if you live in a place like Egypt where rain doesn't matter, what matters is the river. And I think that it is de conviction that these episodes MUST at all costs have happened in Egypt the only thing that would force one to say that these occurrences of gh-y-th should have a meaning which is not their proper meaning but an offshoot.Yusuf Ali, not at all suspicious of setting this episodes out of Egypt, translates rain, I guess he saw no other possibility.
Other than that, The Qur'an, however Semitic may be the Arabic language it uses, is not bound by any precedent as to its purpose and meaning, It uses the word masr or misr as a common name, it uses it also as a proper name, but avoids naming the Nile, talks about rain, good old rain in that misr.
And there are other arguments made by Pazuzu straight from Qur'an concerning lengths and duration of travel and other little things of daily life, which however much one may want to brand him as fantasier, have not been refuted, not at all. It is the Qur'an that says those things and the Qur'an knows what it is talking about.
On the other hand the whole "happened in Egypt" theory rests on a single word, which can be understood in more than one way and certainly also as something not Egypt, like, for instance, there are a bunch of cities in Spain called Medina, always a proper name. Anybody speaking about any of those Medinas if he or she is speaking about a certain Medina, will not bother to say "Medina so and so", will simply say Medina, that Medina he or she is talking about. That is simply and example of how Misr as a proper name, even, EVEN, if one takes the amarne tablets etc., doesn't necessarily have to mean Egypt, not at all.
If you keep in mind the streams, the travel times, as said, the rains, etc., etc. that Yusuf is never mentioned with "a pharaoh"... putting Egypt in the picture is like putting a Taliban beard on the face of an American Indian.
All this for me is a proof that the famous sacred History that we were made to study when I was a kid made up with the narrations of the bible is taken in fact as Sacred. One does not discuss it, that is the truth. No matter where we turn we find the face of the Sacred History and we cannot get out of that cage. What is sacred about it? We can kick hadith, but we are still spellbound by the bible stories of this and that, and take all that as selbst-verst?ndlich, and expect the Qur'an to fit that, and consequently we try to make gh-y-th exclude rain. Why? Are we being civilised by those who possess the Sacred History?
Why does the Qur'an say "ihbiTu misran" and then it talks about that misran as the misr, and why when it speaks about countries in other instances it uses balad, qarya, diyar, and in these cases uses misr and never mentions balad or other terms? has it to do with the meaning of the episodes it narrates, putting forward a property of the kind of dunya protrayed in them? Really does it have to speak of Egypt and there is no way at all tht it may be speaking about something not Egypt?
This expression, ihbiTu... only comes in the Qur'an addressing the children of Adam sending them in the dunya, and in this case, ihbiTu misran.
Again, in the face of the many inconsistencies and lack of logic in setting those episodes in Egytp, we only have the "Sacred History" and some tablets which use a word in supossedly a semitic language which I do not know how much it has in common with Arabic, but from the tablets themselves, not that much, whereas other semitic alnguages are readily recognized. In fact I did not examine them thoroughly for that purpouse, but that mii.isri was about the only thing recognizable. At any rate, I do not know if also in Akkadian misr is a common name or not, but the whole point is that the Qur'an is not in Akkadian, it is in Arabic, has its own logic and has its own language and purpose, and in Arabic miSr is a common name that has a meaning and which is used may be as a proper name with a purpose and not imitating Akkadian for lack of a word for Egypt. And, again, that dog that did not bark and it is the lack of any mention of the Nile. It would have been simple, it would have fixed the thing, but no Nile anywhere. That is a big hole in the Egyptian set up.
Salaam
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Salam Huruf,
And there are other arguments made by Pazuzu straight from Qur'an concerning lengths and duration of travel and other little things of daily life, which however much one may want to brand him as fantasier, have not been refuted, not at all. It is the Qur'an that says those things and the Qur'an knows what it is talking about.
From the posts I have read there is no cohesion in that the subjects shift in both time and location with no rules (Jesus in Palestine becomes a false Jesus appearing centuries later - the Exodus becomes the Isralites crossing a stream, common words such as "rivers" change their meanings if they do not fit the theory, etc.).
I will say this. Let Pazuzu or anyone else who is in support of this, rather that write page after page of facts mixed with fantasy, list a number of points (say 5-10) using the Quranic verses, on why such a claim should be true and we will either be able to adress them each or be forced to admit that this theory holds water.
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Peace, already posted on this above...
http//concordances.org/hebrew/4714.htm
Young's Literal Translation
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And all the persons coming out of the thigh of Jacob are seventy persons; as to Joseph, he was in Egypt.Latin Biblia Sacra Vulgata
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erant igitur omnes animae eorum qui egressi sunt de femore Iacob septuaginta Ioseph autem in Aegypto erat
................................................................................Salaam Noon
And a believing man of Pharaoh's family, who hid his faithThat believing man was preaching from the story of Pharoah or he was from his family???
This man was important enough to be quoted in the Qur'an and he talks of
A plight like that of Noah's folk, and A'ad and Thamud, and those after them.
Yet there is no such narration mentioned in Egyptology hmmAbove proves it was Misri in all Semitic languages.
handshake
Also what was ancient roman word for Egypt and if someone asked you to translate?
Young's Literal Translation
......links given by Ndp seriously. No wonder! These Amarna Scrolls have been there since the nineteenth century!Oh my people they have put the Quran behind their back and rely on Young's Literal Translation and Amarna Scrolls
peace -
Of course Pazuzu can do that if he wants to, butthose places that people see morning and evening, and other details, I have not seen that they are refuted. And I do not know whether Pazuzu's WHOLE theory holds water 100%, but I am sure the theory that sets Yusuf and Musa in Egypt, contrary to the Nile, does not hold water.
Of course, it would be nice and more readable if everything was neatly put in good order and well organized. I hope Pazuzu does that so that justice can be done to his study of these questions and hopefully can serve as another push to this kind of investigations, where so many things have been taken for granted.
I wouldn't be surprised if many mistakes are made in the process, but it is inevitable. This is not like laying an egg, that comes so perfectly finished and shaped without any previous adjusting or retouching.
Salaam
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Salam,
The Kingdom of Israel that rose, and was later destroyed, was that of proximity to Sheba which was in Yemen.
As for the Children of Israel in Palestine and elsewhere, they ended up there after leaving the land of Egypt and God splitting them into groups.
7168 And We divided them through the land as nations. From them are the upright, and from them are other than that. And We tested them with good things and bad, perhaps they will return.
No. Moses was not with them as he and Aaron abaondoned them after they refused to enter the Holy Land.
524-25 They said ?O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!? He said ?My Lord, I do not possess except myself and my brother, so separate between us and between the wicked people.?
As pointed out in 7168 above, the Children of Israel split into groups after this incident, with the most prominent group forming in Southern Arabia generation later and establishing the Kingdom.
Salaam Layth
Could you kindly put all the above events you mentioned according to the estimated time frame, starting from the building of the pyramids by thousands of the children of Isreal, exodus, via the formation of the kingdom of Israel in Yemen to a group of them ending up in "the Holy Land" with Moses and Aron.
peace -
12.49.
I am at a loss as to how one can say that rain does not fit in those passages. Of course it fits, it is the thing that fits, and of course it makes a lot of sense, far more sense than the abundance thing, for ,besides, rain has always been a herald of abundance, first comes rain, then comes abundance. If one today is enclosed in a city and sees rain as "bad whether" I suppose one would prefer that the Qur'an in those passages would say abundance, but for somebody who has not lost the link to the earth from which he or she draws his or her very nourishment and means of living, rain is foremost -for ages it has been considered a god, a very important God-, EXCEPT , of course if you live in a place like Egypt where rain doesn't matter, what matters is the river. And I think that it is de conviction that these episodes MUST at all costs have happened in Egypt the only thing that would force one to say that these occurrences of gh-y-th should have a meaning which is not their proper meaning but an offshoot.Peace huruf,
Rain makes no sense and relief/plenty/abundance anything opposite of despair does.
4228 and He The One Who sent down the relief from after what they despaired and spreads His mercy and He The Guardian The Praiseworthy
Let?s say you have a problem with money, love life, whatever ? how is raining on your head help?
Yusuf Ali, not at all suspicious of setting this episodes out of Egypt, translates rain, I guess he saw no other possibility.
Well he got Egypt right and most translations are inconsistent, contradictory, and lack careful study.
Other than that, The Qur'an, however Semitic may be the Arabic language it uses, is not bound by any precedent as to its purpose and meaning, It uses the word masr or misr as a common name, it uses it also as a proper name, but avoids naming the Nile, talks about rain, good old rain in that misr.
This is like the tenth time you mentioned Nile and dogs barking; simply look it up --
Nile in Egyptian is iteru which means great river; Latin Nlos thought to be from Semitic Nahal also river.
And there are other arguments made by Pazuzu straight from Qur'an concerning lengths and duration of travel and other little things of daily life, which however much one may want to brand him as fantasier, have not been refuted, not at all. It is the Qur'an that says those things and the Qur'an knows what it is talking about.
What travel, like Joseph being a day or two walk from his father and didn't want to visit?
Salaam Noon
And a believing man of Pharaoh's family, who hid his faithThat believing man was preaching from the story of Pharoah or he was from his family???
This man was important enough to be quoted in the Qur'an and he talks of
A plight like that of Noah's folk, and A'ad and Thamud, and those after them.
Yet there is no such narration mentioned in Egyptology hmmPeace IMHO,
They were different people's, either the believer learned about them from the people of Moses living together for generations or they knew being in the Middle East since all have a flood story or they did not the same if a Chines believer went to preach to his people the Qur'an in China for the first time. He was simply a believer like the magicians.
7120 and fell down the magicians prostrating
7121 they said we believe in Lord the creations
7122 Lord Moses and Aaron
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7127 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugatorshandshake
Oh my people they have put the Quran behind their back and rely on Young's Literal Translation and Amarna ScrollsWas Pazuzu's hearsay according to him and conspiracy theory Qur'an?
First you ask the translation question and now you agree Semitic languages referred to the land or Egypt was called by those peoples, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc. Misri in letters to the king of Egypt and he replied back as king land of Misri -- what more evidence do you need?
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I am sure Pazuzu has gone in bewilderment, mentally, after having roamed about in many bewilderments. He cannot summarize and indicate what has he arrived at.
Salaam brother
Pazuzu has been clearly replying and writing at the same time, and he has not hidden the fact that he is using a lot of material and has compacted it in a concise form for all our benefit, yet instead of appreciating his efforts you expect him to now put bullet points for you!! This reminds me of the children of Israel when they were asked to sacrifice a heifer; tell us the exaxt colour of the cow etc.
Since you say on your website to point out your mistakes show right way so, if I was you brother Mazhar I would take off the picture of the so called Prophet's Mosque in Medina and of course "the cu be" from http//haqeeqat.org.pk and for the love of prophet give real account.
Alllah has not made the Saudies custodians of the Bayt al Haram nope -
Salaam brother
Pazuzu has been clearly replying and writing at the same time, and he has not hidden the fact that he is using a lot of material and has compacted it in a concise form for all our benefit, yet instead of appreciating his efforts you expect him to now put bullet points for you!! This reminds me of the children of Israel when they were asked to sacrifice a heifer; tell us the exaxt colour of the cow etc.
Since you say on your website to point out your mistakes show right way so, if I was you brother Mazhar I would take off the picture of the so called Prophet's Mosque in Medina and of course "the cu be" from http//haqeeqat.org.pk and for the love of prophet give real account.
Alllah has not made the Saudies custodians of the Bayt al Haram nopeLet me tell you Pazuzu really does not know where has he finally arrived. And perhaps you will not find him on the Forum after couple of days.
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Peace huruf,
Rain makes no sense and relief/plenty/abundance anything opposite of despair does.
4228 and He The One Who sent down the relief from after what they despaired and spreads His mercy and He The Guardian The Praiseworthy
Let?s say you have a problem with money, love life, whatever ? how is raining on your head help?
Well he got Egypt right and most translations are inconsistent, contradictory, and lack careful study.Let mi quote the Qur'an
""
26. And He listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, and gives them increase of His Bounty but for the Unbelievers their is a terrible Penalty.-
If Allah were to enlarge the provision for His Servants, they would indeed transgress beyond all bounds through the earth; but he sends (it) down in due measure as He pleases. For He is with His Servants Well-acquainted, Watchful.
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He is the One that sends down rain (even) after (men) have given up all hope, and scatters His Mercy (far and wide). And He is the Protector, Worthy of all Praise.
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And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them and He has power to gather them together when He wills.""
Of course the rain fits perfectly and I can't see why if the meaning of the word is rain, just because someone thinks that something else would fit better, the word has to change and just for that one occasion start to mean something that it doesn't. The one that would mean what you need would be gh-w-th, but the word that is there is not gh-w-th, it is gh-y-th, and gh-y-th is rain, not help or abundance. And the same root appears several times in Qur'an with that same meaning of rain.
It would be fairer to say that the word doesn't fit, but not that it means something it does not.
Bearing in mind that it has already said in the previous ayas, that I have quoted
once
and gives them increase of His Bounty
twice
but he sends (it) down in due measure as He pleases
You still want a third time to say more or less the same, but do not want any rain. In spite of the fact that It goes on to speak about other phenomenons of nature like the heavens, from which the rain falls and the earth on which the rain falls.
Obviously you feel that way, but I most certainly find no reason for it, nor for modifying the Arabic language of my own accord so that Egypt can be made to fit in the narrative.
This is like the tenth time you mentioned Nile and dogs barking; simply look it up --
Nile in Egyptian is iteru which means great river; Latin Nlos thought to be from Semitic Nahal also river.
Certainly not the thenth and certainly no more times than other people have repeated other things, like the Akkadian Miis-ri or whatever combination of letters supposedly meaning the same as that Misr or masr in Arabic both supposedly also being semitic languages. Any big leap is welcome, but should not miss the Nile in Egypt.
See if that is not weird. So, yes, I repeat the thing about the Nile.
The Nile, if it were mentioned in the Qur'an, it would be conclusive. It is not there, therefore it is not talking about Egypt, because if it were it wouldn't fail to be mentioned or to be made very clear. It would be inevitable, just as it is inevitable for the existence of Egypt.
Whatever the name of the Nile in ancient Egyptian, it is not in the Qur'an, and the name of the Nile in Arabic, which is Nil, is not in the Qur'an either, so what if somebody thinks that the word Nil might come from the semitic nahl -alike precisely it is not. I supose that for the science extracted from the Sacred history from the bible it may be good enough, though, provided it upholds its hadiths.
From wherever it may come, though, in Arabic the word is Nil and not nahl, and if it were nahl, then, ok, for the sake of argument let us say it is nahl, please point it out in the Qur'an, where is it with that meaning?
I know it is not easy to see certain very longheld visions crumbling, but Pazuzu as far as I am concerned has just given shape or voice or whatever to a long felt sensation that not everything is square in those Egypt and pharaoh stories and others. And the best of it is that no matter how many amarna tablets may be dug, still the source of it all is the bible, pure hadith, still older than sunni or shia hadiz and therefore with more time to trample on facts and obscuring them and ironing the whole thing over after so that nobody notices.
Salaam
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Salaam,
I did not read every post in this thread thus I don't know if what i'm going to write was all ready mentioned.
Please take a look at this ayaats
just a copy paste from freeminds translation of the first part of chapter 17171
Glory be to the One who took His servant by night from the Restricted Temple to the most distant temple which We had blessed around, so that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearer, the Seer.
172
And We gave Moses the Book and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel "Do not believe in any besides Me."
173
The progeny of those whom We carried with Noah, he was a thankful servant.
174
And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Book, that you will make corruption twice on the earth, and that you will become very high and mighty.
175
So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.
176
Then We gave back to you your independence from them, and We supplied you with wealth and sons, and We made you more influential.
177
If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Temple as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.I know that the traditional understanding thinks that 171 talks about the miraj of prophet Mohammed but I differ from understanding. I think the servant of 171 is referring to the one mentioned in 172. So I believe that 171 is talking about the journey of Moses with The Bani Israel from The Masjid AlHaraam to The Masjid AlAqsa. So I believe that we have to investigate the ayaats were these two masjids are mentioned to have a better understanding.
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Let mi quote the Qur'an
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26. And He listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, and gives them increase of His Bounty but for the Unbelievers their is a terrible Penalty.-
If Allah were to enlarge the provision for His Servants, they would indeed transgress beyond all bounds through the earth; but he sends (it) down in due measure as He pleases. For He is with His Servants Well-acquainted, Watchful.
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He is the One that sends down rain (even) after (men) have given up all hope, and scatters His Mercy (far and wide). And He is the Protector, Worthy of all Praise.
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And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them and He has power to gather them together when He wills.""
Of course the rain fits perfectly and I can't see why if the meaning of the word is rain, just because someone thinks that something else would fit better, the word has to change and just for that one occasion start to mean something that it doesn't. The one that would mean what you need would be gh-w-th, but the word that is there is not gh-w-th, it is gh-y-th, and gh-y-th is rain, not help or abundance. And the same root appears several times in Qur'an with that same meaning of rain.
It would be fairer to say that the word doesn't fit, but not that it means something it does not.
Bearing in mind that it has already said in the previous ayas, that I have quoted
once
and gives them increase of His Bounty
twice
but he sends (it) down in due measure as He pleases
I've wasted too much time on this thread.
?It? is the provision/relief not ?rain? ? it makes no sense to send rain on your head if you need help!
http//www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/blogpost/201109/Images/flooding9.JPG?uuid=m0jHwt74EeCZSGdgG42zWw
Rain does not appear in any of those verses. As stated open another thread if you want to discuss.
Peace!
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Mazhar, LOL! you wish
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 041738 PM
Let me tell you Pazuzu really does not know where has he finally arrived. And perhaps you will not find him on the Forum after couple of days.His apostle was worried by this
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 040044 PM
I am sure Pazuzu has gone in bewilderment, mentally, after having roamed about in many bewilderments. He cannot summarize and indicate what has he arrived at. -
Salam, everyone.
Well, if the purpose of asking for a summary is just for the sake of putting all the points and facts together on one page, then I suppose I could do that. But if you think I am going to debate with you again over each point, then you are mistaken.
So I will give you the summary, and it will be my last post on this thread.
The events of the Torah took place in south west Arabia, precisely in the mountainous regions of Asir and Yemen. This area was the theater of a nomadic tribe by the name of Bani Israel, whose grandfather, Abraham (P), had migrated, after a theological debate with the elders of his homeland, in the wilderness of Yemen, westwards towards the lush mountain oasises and fertile region of Asir, which Allah described as "the Blessed Land". Eventually, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, settled in a tented, tribal village, somewhere close to the trade routes. And it was there, along the mountain slopes of Asir, that the events surrounding the prophets Joseph and later Moses, took place.
Egypt had nothing to do with these events whatsoever. And here follows the points of the summary, which prove our "fantasy"
1- The title of "Pharoa" is completely alien to the culture of ancient Egypt. Any reasonable and objective archeologist or Egyptologist knows this very well. There is no mention of this title anywhere in the hieroglyphs of Egypt. The rulers of ancient Egypt were Kings and Queens, NOT "Pharoas".
2- There was only ONE person whom the Quran described as "Pahroah" (Far3oun). And this title was exclusively for the tyrant who persecuted Moses and his people. There was no "Pharoah" before him, and none came after him. And this tyrant was boasting that he had ownership of a "misr" with many rivers flowing near it.
3- The story of Joseph tells us that his brothers tossed him in a well along a caravan route. He was then picked up by a group of merchants who sold him in the nearest trade station along that route. This descrption does not fit with Egypt, in which trade took place by boats carrying goods along the Nile River, in both directions, from the Delta area, all the way to Nubia (present day Sudan).
4- The land in which Joseph lived depended on rain for its agriculture. This does not fit with the geography nor the climate of the Nile Valley, a land that sees very little rain and relies on the Nile itself (irrigation canals). In fact, heavy rains often caused flooding of the river, which proved catastrophic for their crops.
5- The rivers in Joseph's land dried up after several years drought, because they were not the type of rivers that were permanent. The Nile of Egypt has never dried up.
5- When Jacob told his children to enter "misr", he advised them to enter through diferrent doors/gates, so as not to attract attention to themselves. This proves that the word "misr" refers to a walled trade town (a citadel), having several gates. Egypt did not have any "wall" around it, nor did it have "gates". And assuming it did, the wall would have to be similar to the Great Wall of China, and the geographical expanse would be so huge, that Jacob's advice would have been completely pointless.
6 - Moses was sent to the very same people to whose ancestors Joseph was sent. This means that the Israelites were still in the same citadel, by the time "Pharoah" entered the scene. So the events most probably happened in the same place (see 4038-44). The Quran also tells us that a believer from among Pharoa's people warned them of the consequences of rejecting Moses' message, and told them to consider the examples of the people of Noah, A'd, and Thamud, nations that were destroyed for rejecting their messengers. These past nations were not in Egypt. They were in teh same geographical region (south west Arabia).
7- The Quran tells us that "Far3oun" and his men drowned in the yamm, which is a stream of abundant , flowing water. He did not drown in a "sea" of any kind. The event took place inland.
8- The drowning of Pharoah removed a serious obstacle preventing the evolution of Bani Israel. Eventually, the stage was set for them to inherit the land. They were at first split into several clans, each owning a strip of land. Eventually, around 300 years later, they were united in one kingdom under David, and later Solomon. And this kingdom was not in Palestine.
9- The number of Israelites who escaped with Moses could not have been 600,000, as the Torah claims. At any rate, there is not a single mention, in the entire archeological corpus unearthed from Egypt, of any group called "Bani Israel", or any person by the name of "Moses" or "Joseph".
10 - There is ZERO mention of "pyramids" in the Old Testament.
11- The delusional connection between the stories of Joesph and Moses and the Nile Valley came as the result of the Septuagint forgery, which replaced the word "Msrm" in the original Aramaic text with the word "Aigypto" in the Greek Torah. This was done for purely political reasons, and served a dual purpose
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First It enabled the conquering Greeks to write their own version of the history of Egypt, in a way that was mutually beneficial to both the Ptolemic Dynasty, and the Jews who lived there. This would set the stage for the Zionists ( who consider themselves to be "Descendants of Israel" to hijack Egypt and claim it as a part of their "Promised Land". (From the Euphrates to the Nile, is your Land, Oh Israel!).
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Second Ruining the reputation of the ancient Egyptian Kings (whom the Greeks conquered), and turning them into "Pharoas", and claiming that the "Pharoah" who persecuted Moses and the Israleites was one of them. As a result, all the curses and damnations of God which are mentioned in the Torah fell upon the heads of the Egyptian kings, who were completely innocent of such claims, and victims of a fabricated history.
If I have missed anything, the readers who support this view are welcome to fill in.
I am sure Pazuzu has gone in bewilderment, mentally, after having roamed about in many bewilderments. He cannot summarize and indicate what has he arrived at.
Yes, I have gone "bewildered". But not for the reason you think. I am bewildred by the idiocy of the Arabs, who don't know their own history, and have allowed OTHERS to write it for them. I am bewildered when I read passages from AL-Hamadani's book, and see in front of me, the same names of places, valleys and tribes that are mentioned in the Torah. Over 200 names, matching to the letter.
And I am bewildered that the Muslims have, in their hands, the only document from GOD which exposes the Zionist lies (he Quran), yet they have made it of no account, and have instead gone propagating these lies for centuries, without being aware of it.
Let me tell you Pazuzu really does not know where has he finally arrived. And perhaps you will not find him on the Forum after couple of days
I know full well where I have arrived. But I will grant you your wish soon.
Peace...
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So the entire story revolves around the point that Misr is not what is known in the western world by the name Egypt.
The conclusion is
The events of the Torah took place in south west Arabia, precisely in the mountainous regions of Asir and Yemen. This area was the theater of a nomadic tribe by the name of Bani Israel
And the premises is that what ever happend it happend at the same place and there was no Exodus by the Bani Israel, as stated here
6 - Moses was sent to the very same people to whose ancestors Joseph was sent. This means that the Israelites were still in the same citadel, by the time "Pharoah" entered the scene. So the events most probably happened in the same place (see 4038-44). The Quran also tells us that a believer from among Pharoa's people warned them of the consequences of rejecting Moses' message, and told them to consider the examples of the people of Noah, A'd, and Thamud, nations that were destroyed for rejecting their messengers. These past nations were not in Egypt. They were in teh same geographical region (south west Arabia).
7- The Quran tells us that "Far3oun" and his men drowned in the yamm, which is a stream of abundant , flowing water. He did not drown in a "sea" of any kind. The event took place inland.
8- The drowning of Pharoah removed a serious obstacle preventing the evolution of Bani Israel. Eventually, the stage was set for them to inherit the land. They were at first split into several clans, each owning a strip of land. Eventually, around 300 years later, they were united in one kingdom under David, and later Solomon. And this kingdom was not in Palestine.
Your conclusion
Fir3oun and his men did drown in "yamm" but did not drown in a "sea".
The first information in Qur'aan about the entire episode is by beggining it with the last scene of it and there "yamm" is not used
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.050d.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.050b%7Bdrowned%20ale%20firoun%7D.gifWhat is this Bahr? They were delievered and rescued and then Fir3oun and his men drown in a state while Bani Israel were watching this scene. "yamm" and "bahr" has two extreme edges. Rescuing means they crossed over to the other edge of Bahr.
Let us not go away from Qur'aan and find the facts only through it.
