Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
-
Also another question, and it is not a slight one, one cannot say that there have not been since many many centuries ago vested interests in offering versions of history that suit precisely the narrative as it is generally admitted now. Had the ancient Egyptians kept power I am convinced that not only history would have been different, obviously, but it would have been told very, very differently. And the hands it has gone through since the ancient Egyptians held their own have not been hands that would have any interest in giving a version of history differnet of the one that is currently offered.
So the history is long and the manipulation of history is also very long.
The only proof as far as I am concerned that is not manipulated is the Qur'an.
Again there is the history of Yusuf, there the whole episode of Moses and others, and not a single time, not once, the Nile is mentioned. Either the whole thing in the Qur'an is purposefully unlocated, which could be, either it is totally an open question.
The whole bulding rests on the word Misr and something in some language or languages which purportedly resembles it.
Salaam
-
No time to address latest Pazuzu's post which again is non factual, hearsay, and careless study.
PeaceSalaam Noon
I am sorry to say I find it very unlike you to discard the latest post from Pazuzu as non factual, hearsay, and careless study.
Could you point out about what and where he is being non factual. He has used the Qur'aan as the base of his findings and he is putting facts on the table with regard to what is situated in Saudia Arabia/Yemin. I fail to see that he has been in any way careless.
Salaam -
Peace,
I do not see how the stories in the Quran can be based on fantasy or fictitious accounts just for the purpose of ramming in moral lessons, or clarifications about how to and why obey God's Laws... this flies in the face of a rational, purposeful and logical God who keeps on exhorting Mankind and the Believers to move in the Land, ponder the stories of Men of old from what they left, and learn from the findings...
In my view, and absolute belief, Allah made the Quran to also give us clues about how to direct our research and methodologies to get answers about what the missing links in the stories Allah is telling us on the one hand, and as a filter to measure against to discount fabrications and manipulations...
So the shame is not to use this valuable document as the base for distinguishing between what is sound and what is plain wrong, the answers must be there if we are (and we should) accept an ayat like the one in my signature as a signal for such
4153 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'?n) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness
over all things? -
9 ) The Source of the Delusion ? The Septuagint Translation
After Alexander?s successful conquest of many of the world?s nations during the 4th Century B.C, his empire soon became the dominant force on the map, and stretched to include Mesopotamia, West India, Persia, and Egypt. As a result, the Greek language became the language on the ?tongue of the world?, from horizon to horizon. It was in that era that King Ptolemy Philodelphis (a.k.a Ptolemy II), King of Egypt under Greek mandate, commissioned a group of Jewish priests living in the city of Alexandria to translate the Old Testament from Aramaic to Greek. So the priests, who numbered around 70, took it upon themselves to achieve this task, the first of its kind in the history of the old world.
Eventually, the Greek Torah was born to the world, some 900 years before Muhamad?s time. And it was in this Greek translation that the great LIES which would later become rampant in the world as unquestionable truths, were born. Not only did this translation condone great slanders against the prophets of Allah; slanders llike the following
1- Noah gets drunk and falls asleep, his private parts becoming visible in front of his sons. One unfortunate son makes the mistake of restoring his father's dignity by covering them, only to incur the wrath and curses of Noah when he wakes up.
2 - Lot perpetrating incest with his own daughters and impregnating one of them.
3- David sleeps with 99 women, among them the wife of the captain of his own guard.
4- Mariam, daughter of Imran, becomes jealous of her brother Moses, and is stricken blind by God.
5- Abraham was a cuckold who sold his wife, Sara, to the ?Pharoah? of Egypt, and profited from great riches in the process.
But it also included entire passages which were nowhere to be found in the original Aramaic test. The sane and logical mind would certainly reject such allegations; however, history has proven that it is indeed possible to pass many grave errors ? crimes, actually ? under the cloak of ?God Said So?.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Greece.jpg
Alexander's Empire, during its zenith (4th Centiry B.C)
In fact, Jim Cornwell, in his book ?History of the Bible? points to many of these new passages not found in the Semitic text; among which is the story of ?Eve being created from Adam?s rib, and bearing the blame for the loss of Paradise?. And it was in this way that the Jews regarded the woman as an inferior and ?cursed? being, rather than being the half which completes the man.
And so it was that the great council of Jewish Authorities of that time stamped its approval on the Greek translation ? which is known as the Septuagint Torah (in reference of the 70 or so priests who ?translated? it) ? despite the glaring and grievous errors and falsehoods it contained. And it was this Septuagint Torah which then spread like a wildfire across the nations of the old world, carried on the wings of the rapidly spreading Greek language. (No different that the American ?culture? and ?values? have been carried to all corners of today?s world, via the English language). And since the vast majority of the people of the world could not get access to the original Aramaic text, they took the Greek translation to be the truth, without ever having the possibility to verify its texts.
And one of the greatest forgeries contained in the Septuagint Torah was the replacement of the term ?Misrim? (or ?Mitzrim?) which appeared in the original Aramaic text, with the Greek term ?Aigypto?, thereby transferring the events surrounding the life of the Patriarch Abraham and his descendants from their original location, to the Nile Valley, which was ruled by the Greek Ptolemaic Dynasty, for purely POLITICAL reasons, as we shall soon see.
So let us together examine the texts of the Torah, to see what their hands wrote to the world.
We will randomly chose any passage or sentence in the Torah, which contains the term ?Misrim?, in order to see just how this great delusion was born
Let it be the following passage, from (Genesis 2121)
The last word, on the left (Aramaic is read from right to left, like Arabic) will be the center of our attention. But first, we need to see just how this word is actually pronounced. And despite the fact that most of us here do not read Aramaic, this is no longer an obstacle, since it is possible today to obtain a vocal glossary of all the languages ever known in the world.
I will spell it out for you, first in Aramaic (or what they call ?Hebrew? today), and then we will see how the same term is spelled in the Greek translation
The first letter "" is ?mem?, pronounced ?m?.
The second letter "" is ?tzade?, pronounced ?tz?.
The third letter "" is ?resh?, pronounced ?r?.
The fourth letter "" is ?yod?, pronounced ?i? or ?y?.
The fifth letter "" is also ?mem? (when it?s at the end of a word), pronounced ?m?.Reading the whole word, , we get M ? tz ? r ? i ? m (Mitzrim), which is how the word is spoken in what they call ?Hebrew?. Please note something very important here In the original Aramaic text ? whose letters were silent and contained no vowels ? the actual word is written ?Msrm? (with the heavy ?s? sound, exactly like the Arabic letter ). In the modern so-called ?Hebrew?, it became ?Mitzrim? (This is because the modern ?Hebrew? could not pronounce the Aramaic heavy ?s? sound, so they replaced it with ?tz?)
Now the question is How did the Septuagint priests translate this word into Greek, which was the language that carried the new, dominant culture to the entire ancient world?
Let?s take that same passage again (Genesis ? 2121), and study again, this time in Greek
.
There?s the word again, which, in the context of the passage, is indicating the name of a land, and is therefore a PROPER noun. It is the last word to the right (Greek is read from left to right). Again, using any vocal glossary for the pronunciation of Greek letters, let?s spell it out
The first letter "A" is ?alpha?, pronounced ?a?.
The second letter "" is ?iota?, pronounced ?i?.
The third letter "" is ?gamma?, pronounced ?g?.
The fourth letter "" is ?upsilon?, pronounced ?i?or ?y?
The fifth letter "" is ?pi?, pronounced ?p?.
The sixth letter "? is ?tau?, pronounced ?t?.
The seventh letter "" is ?omicron?, pronounced ?o?.Now, joining the letters together, we get A-i-g-i(y)-p-t-o (Aigypto).
And there you have it folks The ?translation? of what is clearly a proper noun ?Mizrim? (or ?Misrim?), a land that was unknown to the ancient world, into ?Aigypto?, a very famous land, whose name was recognized by every child and adult in the East and the West of the globe. This is the land of ?Egypt? as it is pronounced in English, and ?Qibt? as it is pronounced in Arabic.
Here is the English translation of the textAnd he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran (Pharan), and his mother took for him a wife from the land of Egypt (Genesis ? 2121).
And so it was that the famous land of Egypt and its great civilization was hijacked, without any effort, by a pack of Ptolemic Jewish priests, who wrote a book with their own hands and called it ?the Holy Torah?. No sooner had the name ?Misrim? been replaced with ?Aegypto?, that the entire culture of the Nile Country became, almost overnight, a cultural heritage owned by the Children of Israel, and a theater for the events surrounding Moses and ?Pharoah?. And they perpetrated the exact same crime with the Chaldeans of Mesopotamia, when they ?translated? the name ?Ur-Kasdeem? which appears in the original Aramaic text as the birthplace of Abraham (P), into the name ?Ur-Kaldon? in the Greek version, in order to claim that the Patriarch was born there. And they would do it later with Roman Palestine, when the Imperialist Zionist movement claimed that the Kingdom of Solomon was located there. And they are doing it TODAY with the United States of America, as we showed you in the story of Joseph Smith. Wherever there was a great power in the world (Greece, Rome, Babylon, USA), you will find those prospective forgers start to hover around it, and shower it with ?Israeli Holiness?, until eventually, they place their hands on it and steal its resources, while projecting to the entire world the image that they are ?persecuted? and ?victims of injustice?. And whenever any thinker or archeologist steps forward and shows the courage to break the silence and expose their LIES, and their prostitution of a fake history, they immediately label him as ?Anti-Semitic? (As if Semitism has anything to do with them in the first place!).
This is the truth of the whole matter, brothers and sisters. Remember
A LIE PROPAGATED FOR POLITICAL MANIPULATION.
Just imagine the fame and renown that was gifted to the Ptolemaic Dynasty, when their land was imagined, by the whole world, as the theater of the ?Holy? events surrounding the Children of Israel! It was all perpetrated for the mutual benefit of the Greeks and the Jewish priests whom they commissioned to translate the original text.
And so it was that this great LIE was propagated, which created the illusion of a connection between the land of Egypt and the events described in the Torah. And only Allah knows how the story will end.
But what does the word "Misrim" (or Msrm - as it appears in the original, silent Aramaic text) actually mean? Soon I will reveal to you what it means. For now I will tell you that it does NOT have the same meaning as the Arabic word "misr" which appears in the Quran. The term "Misrim" is the PROPER noun of a land or region that is central in the story of the Patriarch Abraham, as I will show you in a future thread.
10 ) Where did Far3oun Drown?
The key to cracking this puzzle lies in our understanding of the word ?yamm? , which has been erroneously translated as ?sea?. The Quran, in some places, states that Far3oun and his goons drowned in the ?bahr?, while in other places, it states that he was drowned in the ?yamm?. So does this mean that the two words are synonymous?
Absolutely not. There are NO synonyms whatsoever in the eloquent Arabic tongue. Each word has its own precise placement and meaning.
We have already showed you that the word ?bahr? does not necessarily mean ?sea?. It simply indicates a large body with abundant water. So what about ?yamm?? Since there are no synonyms in the Quranic language, the only possible explanation is that ?yamm? is a description of this body of water. It is giving more detail about this ?bahr? in order to specify exactly what kind of water body it is.
Here, I will quote member Noon dhe plume from another thread
Ya-Miim-Miim al-yami seems best as simply the flowing water
This is actually spot on!
If you go now to the regions of Asir and Yemen and ask any Bedouin who lives there what the meaning of the word is, he/she will tell you simply that it means a course of running, or flowing water.
In fact, this meaning is common to Arabic, Aramaic, and Syriac. And you can go research it all you want.
So now we know what kind of ?bahr? (body of water) it was that Far3oun drowned in.
Now take a close look at the following verses, and see for yourself how they corrupt the meaning of Allah?s words
{When We inspired to your mother what was inspired * Cast him in the casket and cast the casket in the yamm, so the yamm will place him on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will take him. And I placed upon you a love from Me. And that you shall be raised under My eye}?
In the above verses, the classical ?translators? of the Quran interpreted the word ?yamm? as indicating the Nile river.
Now, let's read the following
{He said "Then be gone, for you will have it in this life to say "I am not to be touched" And you will have an appointed time which you will not forsake. And look to your god that you remained devoted to, we will burn him, then we will destroy him in the yamm completely."?
Here, Moses is reprimanding a man whom the Quran calls ?al-samiri?, who tricked the Israelites into worshiping a jeweled calf figurine. In this verse, they translated the same word, yamm, as meaning a small stream. Well of course! How can it be otherwise? Didn?t the event take place on the slopes of what they call "Mount Sinai", AFTER they had crossed the sea? (See the map below for the alleged location of the Mount). There are no known rivers anywhere in Sinai. So, the most convenient interpretation of the yamm there is a small stream in the desert.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Sinai.png
The alleged location of "Mount Sinai".
Now look at this next verse
{We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in the yamm, for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them}?
In the above verse, they interpreted the word as meaning ?sea? (When they found the idea of the Red Sea crossing a bit too outrageous, they decided Far3oun must have drowned in the Sea of Reeds).
As you can see, brothers and sisters, they gave the word ?yamm? three different meanings, thereby ignoring the precision of the eloquent language of the Quran, and making it completely irrelevant! The goal, of course, was to make Egypt fit, by force, with the events being described in the Quran. Instead of letting Allah's words be the judge of their inherited beliefs, they did the opposite they twisted the meaning of the Quranic verses to make them fit with those beliefs.
Had they stuck to the original and true meaning of the word ?yamm?, which means simply ? a flowing or running stream of water?, they would have realized the truth
Moses? mother placed him in a casket, and set him loose in a flowing stream.
The jeweled calf of the ?samiriy? was trashed in a flowing stream.
Far3oun and his men drowned in a flowing stream.This is the truth that they did not want to see, because it doesn?t fit with their pre-conception of the events.
So how did the drowning happen?
{And We inspired Moses "Go, with my servants, in secret. You will be followed" * So Far3oun sent gatherers to the towns * "They are but a small band." * "And they have enraged us." * "And we are all gathered and forewarned." * So, We evicted them out of gardens and springs * And treasures and an honorable station * As such, We made Bani Israel inherit it all * So they were pursued at sunrise * But when the two groups saw each other, the companions of Moses said "We are caught!" * He said "No, my Rabb is with me and He will guide me." * So We inspired to Moses "Strike forth towards the bahr with conviction." So it split into two, each side like a great cliff face * And We then brought the others (the pursuers) near * And We saved Moses and all those with him *Then We drowned the others}....
Here is a possible explanation
As we said before, Moses (P) and his people fled the citadel, in secret, by night. Far3oun didn?t gather the search party until after he realized they were gone. The Children of Israel were probably no more than 600 in number. Far3oun caught up to them the next morning, which proves that the distance the evaders had covered could not have been long. When they SAW that Far3oun was getting close and feared he would have them, Allah comforted the heart of Moses and told him to head towards a river valley descending the slope of the mountainside. The Israelites walked along a narrow path between two huge streams of water, like cliff banks on either side of them, until they reached the lowland wilderness. When the pursuers tried to take the same route, the flowing streams (yamm) closed in on them and they drowned.
11 ) Who was Far3oun?
The truth of this matter will never be known. We cannot say for sure, what his name was, nor is that information important. The importance is the LESSON learned from the story. That is the whole purpose of the ?qasas? of the Quran (narrations of past nations).
But what we can say for sure is the following
1- Far3oun (?small chief?), was the ruler of a trade citadel. And this citadel was along a caravan trade route in a MOUNTAINOUS country that was nowhere near Egypt.
2- The Quran tells us clearly where this mountainous region is. The truth has always been under our noses, but we have been blinded from it by the Imams of Forgery.
{These are the towns whose news We told to you of (O Muhamad); their messengers had come to them with proofs, but they would not believe in what they had denied before. It is such that Allah stamps on the hearts of the rejecters}?
{And thus We have inspired to you (O Muhamad) an eloquent Quran, so that you may warn the Mother of Towns and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering that is inevitable. A group will be in the Paradise, and a group in Hell}?
{And We destroyed the towns around you (O people of Muhamad) and We had dispatched the signs, perhaps they would repent}?
{And We have not sent before you (O Muhamad) except men, to whom We gave inspiration, from among the people of the towns. Will they not roam the land and see how was the punishment of those before them? And the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware. Do you not comprehend?}?
{Many nations have come before you (O people of Muhamad), so roam the land and see how the consequence was for the deniers}?
So where do we roam? Where were those towns? And where was the Mother of Towns?
We have been looking everywhere BUT the right place. What have we found?
We have been blinded from the truth by a league of corruptors and LIARS who have hijacked our history to achieve their own selfish goals, and scattered the prophets of Allah in lands that they never set foot upon.
But there is one land whose faint cry has fallen on deaf ears. A land that is waiting to tell us a different version of the story.
And that land is in the black circle?
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Saudia_Physical.jpg
And now at last, dear brothers and sisters, I put before you again the same two photos that you saw on page 1 of this thread
Now tell me. After all the evidence I have shown you, and all the proofs I have put forth concerning the identity of Far3oun, will you still, despite all this, continue to walk in the dark night of the Septuagint forgery and insist on chosing picture number 1?Or will you at least pause and think, before transferring this knowledge to your children and grand children, and research more into the matter, until you see the light of dawn?
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Picture1.jpg
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Picture2.jpg
The End
Peace, OUT.
-
I think the primary meaning as per the dictionaries is the rain. Whether rain brings abundance is something else. And Yusuf Ali does translate rain, in other parts except in that where it says yughathu the people, but even there does say water, and if you check Lane all there is about this root is rain, rain and more rain.
Peace huruf, open a separate thread on this since this one is all over the place.
12498 yughthu
31347 l-ghaytha
42284 l-ghaytha
572015 ghaythin4228 and He the one who He sent down the rain??? from after what they despaired and spreads His mercy and He The Guardian The Praiseworthy
Read in context, rain does not belong in any of those verses nor does rain make any sense which after desolation/despair is its opposite certainly not rain/water ? this is rain?
222 the one who made to you the earth a resting place and the sky a canopy and sent down from the sky rain/water so brought forth with it from the fruits provision to you so not set up to God equals and you knowing
699 and He the one who sent down from the sky rain/water
Salaam Noon
I am sorry to say I find it very unlike you to discard the latest post from Pazuzu as non factual, hearsay, and careless study.
Could you point out about what and where he is being non factual. He has used the Qur'aan as the base of his findings and he is putting facts on the table with regard to what is situated in Saudia Arabia/Yemin. I fail to see that he has been in any way careless.
SalaamPeace IMHO,
I don't know where begin; this is worst than the nineteen crowd and their appendixes/multiples.
How is this Bible thread Qur'an? He simply finds contradictions in Bible like this which are plenty.
Exodus 1240 Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years.
Allah tells us that Far3oun?s trade citadel had MANY rivers near it (not just one); whereas Joseph?s area suffered from a 7-year drought, due to lack of rain.
I've started a separate thread on meanings for oceans, seas, rivers, fountains ...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603161.0
{And a believing man from among the people of Far3oun...4028-34
Where did these events take place? The man is reminding the people of the example of what happened to the nations who came before them, in the SAME REGION!! He is reminding them of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad and Thamud. Where were those nations located? In Egypt?
Keep reading from 4028 to 4045 see that he was believer and was simply preaching to his people.
Instead of wasting time responding to everything why not you instead bring out what you believe are his most compelling points one-at-time and we'll have look like that last bit on Alexander's empire and "the conspiracy" of translating the Aramaic or Semitic the land Misri (NOT CITADEL!) and they simply "translated" it as they were asked to do into Greek who referred to it as land of Egypt in their language.
Peace
-
Brother pazuzu,
Allah is most pleased with you, at least I am convinced of it...
Jazaka Allah alfu khaireen for being the vector of mercy to open my eyes on this absolutely fundamental clarification on the Deen of Allah...
My perception is that Allah encoded levels of understanding in the Quran, and corresponding abilities hard wired in our brains, and the Universe, and they are real phenomena to be studied and benefited from mentally, emotionally, spiritually, theologically and physically, all linked...
The Quran has plenty of secrets that are waiting to be unfolded by the faithful, doesn't Allah say that if there is a way Believers can accomplish amazing feats like speaking to the dead, moving mountains, and more, then it is most surely and absolutely through this Quran... a Quran we neglected and put aside whereas it is the only central element to bring pervading and unimaginable changes in this Universe... we have the most formidable and powerful weapon, if we but become worthy of unlocking its capabilities that are there to be used by Allah's leave...
This is why, all the descriptions in the Quran refer exactly to true events, with some hidden allegorically either because they are hard to comprehend without preparation, or so that they be tests from Allah to see who are the most dedicated, open minded, and self sacrificing souls who accept to read and obey without any restraint or fear the guidance of the almighty...
May Allah bless your soul and grant you a place in Jannah....
Salaam
It is also time for archeological and forensic studies in Asir and Yemen region, so let us pray that dedicated people will move forward and spend of their wealth and their energy to make this happen...I was waiting for this from Allah for a very long time, as this status quo was not satisfying to me...
So far you have convinced me...and looking forward for the final instalments of the other thread on Muhammad...
-
Thank you Pazuzu!
For me it is a sort of miracle from Allah that I came to this Forum only to read your posts, because it is the most important breakthrough in my knowledge!
May Allah reward you for your work!
-
Salam Imho,
Slaam Layth
I am surprised that you started this subject back in 2003 and wonder why you left it in the middle this seems beyond logic to me
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7301.0This is not the same subject. Please re-read that thread - which I still stand by. I was making the observation that the Children of Israel, after the Exodus, resided in the area of Yemen and that is where the Kingdom of Israel was created.
I have never made, nor supported, these absurd claims that Misr/Egypt was in fact in Yemen, that Jesus was sent to Yemen, that all prophets ended up in Yemen - or any other such theories being put forth by a twisting of the Quran and a redefinition of all words/names that do not fit the desired theory.
-
Salam Imho,
This is not the same subject. Please re-read that thread - which I still stand by. I was making the observation that the Children of Israel, after the Exodus, resided in the area of Yemen and that is where the Kingdom of Israel was created.
Salaam Layth
Does this mean that the qur'aan was revealed in Yemen, since a good part of it addresses the Children of Israel and speaks of them?
-
Salam Samia,
Does this mean that the qur'aan was revealed in Yemen, since a good part of it addresses the Children of Israel and speaks of them?
No. The kingdom of Israel in Yemen was destroyed at the hands of a powerful army (believed to be the Babylonians).
The tribes of Israel were scattered already in various geographies, so that groups of them existed in northern Arabia around Yathrib and Petra and in Jerusalem etc. is justifiable that they were the ones being adressed by the Quran.
-
Peace IMHO,
I've started a separate thread on meanings for oceans, seas, rivers, fountains ...http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603161.0
PeaceSalaam Noon
I have been trying to follow your translation above, but I'm finding it difficult to put it all together, as its merely a translation of words. I agree with Abdun Nur Reply 12 The second point I'd think relevant is in attempting to use a word to describe a concept, this generates confusion; unless you are limited by space, which you are not, then present the concept of the Arabic term, as that was the original intent, even if that means writing 50 words in English, as you are conveying the understanding not a list of headings
I believe even a simple world like yatim in the Qur'an, often translated as orphan, should be taken as a concept ie someone who has no one to take care of him/her.I don't know where begin; this is worst than the nineteen crowd and their appendixes/multiples.......
Instead of wasting time responding to everything why not you instead bring out what you believe are his most compelling points one-at-time and we'll have look like that last bit on Alexander's empire and "the conspiracy" of translating the Aramaic or Semitic the land Misri (NOT CITADEL!) and they simply "translated" it as they were asked to do into Greek who referred to it as land of Egypt in their language.I see Pazuzu's findings fallinto in three sections; one based on the Qur'an, which I found most compelling, the scond is based on historical facts and archeological finds, which is again convincing and third and last is his theory on Alexander, which is always debatable. That is why I questioned you where you found it to be non factual, hearsay, and careless study.
The burden of proof is on the accuser; in this case you brother
peace -
Salam Imho,
I was making the observation that the Children of Israel, after the Exodus, resided in the area of Yemen and that is where the Kingdom of Israel was created.Salaam Layth
Thank you for your response. Ok if that's the case then how and when did they end up in Palestine? -
Salam Samia,
No. The kingdom of Israel in Yemen was destroyed at the hands of a powerful army (believed to be the Babylonians).
The tribes of Israel were scattered already in various geographies, so that groups of them existed in northern Arabia around Yathrib and Petra and in Jerusalem etc. is justifiable that they were the ones being adressed by the Quran.
Thanks for the response.
So you believe that bani Israel left with Moses to Yemen? Where were they before? -
I see Pazuzu's findings fallinto in three sections; one based on the Qur'an, which I found most compelling,
Peace IMHO,
Please quote one or two exactly and post what was compelling tie to the Yemen theory?
the scond is based on historical facts and archeological finds, which is again convincing
There were hardly any historical facts presented only Bible hearsay contradictions and other stories according Pazuzu talking about events in 400 BCE "they the Jews conspired" etc, as if he video taped everything. Again post one or two historical facts which where presented without the added fluff.
and third and last is his theory on Alexander, which is always debatable. That is why I questioned you where you found it to be non factual, hearsay, and careless study.
The burden of proof is on the accuser; in this case you brotherEverything we know about Alexander was hearsay written by Plutarch mostly 400 years after the events. Therefore the burden of proof is on him. I'm still waiting on real evidence not conjecture with pictures of Arabs and Yemeni tourist attraction videos being applauded.
Peace
-
Pazuzu Salaam,
I'm an old member drawn back to this board by your tantalizing expose on the Pharao of Moses being in Arabia. I want to compliment you on your excellent research and say Jazzakh Allahu Kheir, may Allah be pleased with you brother. Just a question; am I understanding you correctly in assuming that Sanaa in Yemen is the real Jerusalem (the mother of cities), and also the place to which we as Muslims should perform Hajj and Umrah? wow
Omar Bockman
-
Peace IMHO,
Please quote one or two exactly and post what was compelling tie to the Yemen theory?
Peace
Salaam Noon
Pls see above Reply #94 on November 09, 2011, 033728 PM
1 And the one who believed said "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the Day of the Opponents * Like the fate of the people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud, and those after them. And Allah does not wish any injustice for the servants * And, O my people, I fear for you the Day of Mutual Blaming * A Day when you will turn around and flee, you will have no protector besides Allah, and whoever Allah sends astray, then there is none who can guide him * And Joseph had come to you before with proofs, but you remained in doubt regarding what he came to you with, until when he died, you said 'Allah will not send any messenger after him'. It is such that Allah sends astray he who is a transgressor, a doubter"}...Where did these events take place? The man is reminding the people of the example of what happened to the nations who came before them, in the SAME REGION!! He is reminding them of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad and Thamud. Where were those nations located? In Egypt?
Where did these events take place? The man is reminding the people of the example of what happened to the nations who came before them, in the SAME REGION!! He is reminding them of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad and Thamud2 I will spell it out for you, first in Aramaic (or what they call ?Hebrew? today), and then we will see how the same term is spelled in the Greek translation
The first letter "" is ?mem?, pronounced ?m?.
The second letter "" is ?tzade?, pronounced ?tz?.
The third letter "" is ?resh?, pronounced ?r?.
The fourth letter "" is ?yod?, pronounced ?i? or ?y?.
The fifth letter "" is also ?mem? (when it?s at the end of a word), pronounced ?m?.Again, using any vocal glossary for the pronunciation of Greek letters, let?s spell it out
The first letter "A" is ?alpha?, pronounced ?a?.
The second letter "" is ?iota?, pronounced ?i?.
The third letter "" is ?gamma?, pronounced ?g?.
The fourth letter "" is ?upsilon?, pronounced ?i?or ?y?
The fifth letter "" is ?pi?, pronounced ?p?.
The sixth letter "? is ?tau?, pronounced ?t?.
The seventh letter "" is ?omicron?, pronounced ?o?.Now, joining the letters together, we get A-i-g-i(y)-p-t-o (Aigypto).
And there you have it folks The ?translation? of what is clearly a proper noun ?Mizrim? (or ?Misrim?), a land that was unknown to the ancient world, into ?Aigypto?, a very famous land, whose name was recognized by every child and adult in the East and the West of the globe. This is the land of ?Egypt? as it is pronounced in English, and ?Qibt? as it is pronounced in Arabic.
I have taken all form above post and look forward to your comments
peace -
I find most people going into circles here just to fulfill desires. But no one took the links given by Ndp seriously. No wonder! These Amarna Scrolls have been there since the nineteenth century!
What's interesting in them is that they are written in a language other than hieroglyphic, but were found in Egypt and were written partially by Egyptian kings. They were mostly in Akkadian language, which is a Semitic language . It is normal if you want to find the name of "Misr" is to search in Semitic. Some did not accept the Hebrew spelling which is much similar to Misr, and now this is another proof from an ancient language giving the name Misr to Egypt.
Another interesting thing I found while reading about these links is that the Akkadian was the language of diplomacy it seems, that was why it was used in foreign correspondence by Egyptian kings, and does not show in local archaeology. That might be the reason why the name Misr would not be seen in Hieroglyph. It's normal then that the qur'aan uses the name written in Semitic and known to all in the region, in and outside Egypt. -
Salaam Noon
Pls see above Reply #94 on November 09, 2011, 033728 PM
1 And the one who believed said "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the Day of the Opponents * Like the fate of the people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud, and those after them. And Allah does not wish any injustice for the servants * And, O my people, I fear for you the Day of Mutual Blaming * A Day when you will turn around and flee, you will have no protector besides Allah, and whoever Allah sends astray, then there is none who can guide him * And Joseph had come to you before with proofs, but you remained in doubt regarding what he came to you with, until when he died, you said 'Allah will not send any messenger after him'. It is such that Allah sends astray he who is a transgressor, a doubter"}...Where did these events take place? The man is reminding the people of the example of what happened to the nations who came before them, in the SAME REGION!! He is reminding them of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad and Thamud. Where were those nations located? In Egypt?
Where did these events take place? The man is reminding the people of the example of what happened to the nations who came before them, in the SAME REGION!! He is reminding them of the fate of the people of Noah, Ad and ThamudPeace, already posted on this above...
Keep reading from 4028 to 4045 see that he was believer and was simply preaching to his people.
2 I will spell it out for you, first in Aramaic (or what they call ?Hebrew? today), and then we will see how the same term is spelled in the Greek translation
The first letter "" is ?mem?, pronounced ?m?.
The second letter "" is ?tzade?, pronounced ?tz?.
The third letter "" is ?resh?, pronounced ?r?.
The fourth letter "" is ?yod?, pronounced ?i? or ?y?.
The fifth letter "" is also ?mem? (when it?s at the end of a word), pronounced ?m?.Again, using any vocal glossary for the pronunciation of Greek letters, let?s spell it out
The first letter "A" is ?alpha?, pronounced ?a?.
The second letter "" is ?iota?, pronounced ?i?.
The third letter "" is ?gamma?, pronounced ?g?.
The fourth letter "" is ?upsilon?, pronounced ?i?or ?y?
The fifth letter "" is ?pi?, pronounced ?p?.
The sixth letter "? is ?tau?, pronounced ?t?.
The seventh letter "" is ?omicron?, pronounced ?o?.Now, joining the letters together, we get A-i-g-i(y)-p-t-o (Aigypto).
And there you have it folks The ?translation? of what is clearly a proper noun ?Mizrim? (or ?Misrim?), a land that was unknown to the ancient world, into ?Aigypto?, a very famous land, whose name was recognized by every child and adult in the East and the West of the globe. This is the land of ?Egypt? as it is pronounced in English, and ?Qibt? as it is pronounced in Arabic.
I have taken all form above post and look forward to your comments
peaceAbove proves it was Misri in all Semitic languages.
http//concordances.org/hebrew/4714.htm
Mitsrayim a son of Ham, also his desc. and their country in N.W. Africa
Original Word
Transliteration Mitsrayim
Phonetic Spelling (mits-rah'-yim)
Short Definition EgyptAlso what was ancient roman word for Egypt and if someone asked you to translate?
Young's Literal Translation
................................................................................
And all the persons coming out of the thigh of Jacob are seventy persons; as to Joseph, he was in Egypt.Latin Biblia Sacra Vulgata
................................................................................
erant igitur omnes animae eorum qui egressi sunt de femore Iacob septuaginta Ioseph autem in Aegypto erat
................................................................................I don't get the point, Jew's in BCE whatever time conspired by maliciousness changing a name?
-
I find most people going into circles here just to fulfill desires. But no one took the links given by Ndp seriously. No wonder! These Amarna Scrolls have been there since the nineteenth century!
What's interesting in them is that they are written in a language other than hieroglyphic, but were found in Egypt and were written partially by Egyptian kings. They were mostly in Akkadian language, which is a Semitic language . It is normal if you want to find the name of "Misr" is to search in Semitic. Some did not accept the Hebrew spelling which is much similar to Misr, and now this is another proof from an ancient language giving the name Misr to Egypt.
Another interesting thing I found while reading about these links is that the Akkadian was the language of diplomacy it seems, that was why it was used in foreign correspondence by Egyptian kings, and does not show in local archaeology. That might be the reason why the name Misr would not be seen in Hieroglyph. It's normal then that the qur'aan uses the name written in Semitic and known to all in the region, in and outside Egypt.Thank you Samia! bravo
It was the language correspondence standard as English is today.
-
Peace
Well well, nothing new...
Layth "proves" Ramadan is in the winter time... Ayman "proves" that Ramadan is in summer time...
Edip/Rachid "prove" 19 is miraculous number for Quran... Ayman "proves" it is a hoax...
pazuzu "proves" Misr is not Egypt, Jerusalem is not David's Temple, Layth/NDP "prove" the opposite...
However the one who do the most work and have the most data is in my view the one who has the upper hand...
As in our case, I find it too convenient that Akkadian scrolls in the 19th century are unearthed to prove that Misr is Egypt... and if Akkadian semitic language was used as language of diplomacy, an important and vital tool of communication between Nations' rulers, will it be not rational to expect far more scrolls of this type than the ones waiting to be miraculously exposed in the 19th century, a century where banking and financial transactions using the forbidden system of usury becoming the norm in Europe and America?
And in any event why would we shy away from any possibility, why absolutely want that a scenario we are used to be the true factual scenario...
Will it really be the end of the world if it were not?
Let us give a chance for Allah's truth to shine no matter how annoying/damaging it be to our ego or creatures' comforts... a bit like a change of Qiblah for the Believers in Muhammad's time...
nabil
peace
