Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Harmony be with you truthseeker,
Of course the prophets instructed to good ways and the term used for that in al-quran is "amalu
salehin", not "salat".
You need to see the distinction between minding who you are and a friendly approach. is meaning what you suggest, but you need to draw the distinction between that and salateh. Salateh refers to your way of life or lifestyle if you want to choose a relatively modern English word. I hope you can see the distinction.
The phrase that God says to Moses was not "I am with you as long as you uphold salateh as in prayer or even connection" but God said to Moses "I am with you as long as you mind who you are, i.e. mind how you lead your life.
And the root does not have a variety of meanings in Arabic but it only means mind as in mind's attention.
- How can one remember the infinite Creator by minding one's ways (2914)?
First of all it is important that also has a distorted meaning in common interpretations and does not mean remember but it means regard/focus/attention. Paying attention to this makes that example perfectly rendered (although it seems you gave reference to the wrong passage).
Of course you criticizers make the life painful to me, but well it is a quite difficult seat I am in to turn something right that has been distorted for over 1000 years and then make people listen to me. I need to shower people with all sorts of indications/signs to an overwhelming magnitude. I already shower people with inconsistency in the mainstream interpretations/translations, provide the true interpretation in a sensible way and also explain the original inconsistency.
Just look at the mainstream interpretation of q - t - l as to meaning kill. It does not make sense all the time at all.
Please look at these passages. Please look carefully and with your maximum logical ability to think
429 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you.
430 And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.If you cannot see something that is not right here then you are a victim to religionism. No author would be considered a good writer if they released a book containing this contextual mismatch.
First it allegedly speaks of no usury and then turn over to do not kill yourselves. But it is not over there, in the next passage it starts again with a conjunction and speaks about the usury again. Do you accept that?
If you have any sense you will instantly think something is wrong there. I know what is wrong in this sentence, and the errors are more than one in just the phrase about "and do not kill yourselves". Here you have a most controversial statement by me however, but this is that does not mean 'not'. That was not the point in this passage, but turning that right is needed to make most sense out of it. is used in this passage, and it means 'convince', Express Entity
To, which means that you should convince yourselves that this is ultimately wrong.
Same word is used when Moses is speaking to Allah and instead of speaking of that they sought to kill Moses, Moses speaks in doubt because he says that he has already tried to convince them but they did not let themselves be convinced by him. And he speaks of Aaron who is a better speaker than him.
Moses were trying to speak about Allah already before when he was in Mesr, but he got no positive response. This is part the reason why he is on the run, because he got no support when they tried to persecute him.
And you asked whether I channel information from God? God does not 100% exactly work that way but it is rather an assimilation with the "realm" of God, much like that Jesus speaks of in the Biblical Gospels. At best I can say like Jesus "I am in the Creator and the Creator is in me", but I am not near as merged as Jesus was. I have personal aspects to work on before I can consider myself that, which are actually spoken of in Qur'an. This symbiotic state is pretty much the meaning of the word. And the famous 'la Elah ila Allah' does also refer to this phenomenon, if you reconsider the 'la' meaning in the proper light. And the Allah word means to thereby be, i.e. "Be To Thereby Be" in a grammatical parsing. Consider then the phrase "B'sm Allah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem" and see that Allah is very very abstract and the focus should actually be on the root that comes after. literally means "in/with spirit/consciousness thereof". This is also why naming your children in Middle-Eastern culture is serious business. If you read the Biblical scriptures, the parents always name their children due to a reason in their lives or a vision they have about their children.
And to go back to the original question in the above paragraph, I have had no dialog with God no. It is not like every person speaks directly with the Creator. Usually the kind of communication works on inspirational level. And I am by far not yet perfected in God, so I do not have the prerequisites. But if you can appreciate my works to any extent, I suppose you can see that I have a connection with God in one way or another.
And the word you are looking for in terms of connection/nearness/proximity with God then you are looking for the wrong word. You are looking for , it means "Attached Condition/state Person ". is a special letter, should be treated as separate from because in the latter you have a specified character. And should you look for the real word for guidance which I just erased, you should be looking for , normally used in the narration.
Salaam
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And, dear truthseeker, please check an Arabic dictionary for the word and you shall find that one of the alternative definitions is "to follow". That is distinctively different from connection/contact. The composition of (salateh) makes it reflexive and an abstract object/concrete noun". Pay attention to that the word uses which is an Entity rather than the entity. And is a compound of the letters and in succession. Depending on what makes most sense to you then Perceive/Conceive/Follow To Be Entity/Character Thereby. Obviously it is not meant to be read in such a dull way, but it was in a demonstrative sense. I summarize it as 'ways or (life) perception'. How you act before others.
It should be noted that the other word that you referred to also has a similar meaning because it starts the same way, i.e. . Just imagine yourself. Perceive/conceive/follow To Good. It indicates that you have an intuition/feeling of what is good.
Salaam
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First it allegedly speaks of no usury and then turn over to do not kill yourselves. But it is not over there, in the next passage it starts again with a conjunction and speaks about the usury again. Do you accept that?
I now see what the problem is with your interpretation of the Quran. Basically you derive a meaning which most (if not all) other translators/readers don't derive and then use that to justify your own view. I have not seen any well known translation which mentions usury in verse 429. If I have missed it please to provide a reference to it.
I find it bizarre that you quote from your own private translation and then ask others to go and check it. Check it where? Have you published it? Has it been reviewed by others? How do you know if you have thought everything through.
For me verses 429-30 are simply saying don't spend your wealth among yourselves wrongly, spend it among yourselves in mutual consent with agreement. Don't use wealth to kill or destroy one another.
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4.29.
Obviously, in spite of the "sacred" meaning of "kill" assigned to the verb qatala overall, in this aya it is clearly not so, even for My name is Ted, since he quotes a translation that gives it as destroy, and which goes to show that the meaning of qatala uniformly given as kill, as happen with so many arabic words is not a neat pack with square sides which does not allow anything but that. Rather it is a wide concept, akin to undoing, which actualises depending on the context, again like tos many words in Arabic. And to make it always mean qatala is simply and without question an error.
Salaam
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Ted,
It is a scam nevertheless, in that passage. Please read the subsequent passage. The do not kill yourself does not work there no matter how hard you try unless you are dishonest to yourself and wish to follow lies blindly.
Of course the letter interpretation has no sources because it is I who discovered it. I am conducting research about it as we speak and I usually go here (this forum) to ventilate my thoughts. It is not like I just take a random word and then just say "It means this! I know it!". I reflect and think upon a word sometimes for hours at a time and also cross-check it several times to see if it works in a context. And sometimes I notice a word sounds wrong, but I cannot pinpoint what is wrong until much later. does mean "to convince" after months of trying. If it does not suit a context that it because the original interpretation is needing reinterpretation. Based on that I know much of classical Arabic grammar knowledge is incorrect, this invites for much misconception and also criticism that I have to deal with simultaneously.
The more I work the more I realize many of the stories are interpretation acrobatics of the past to force a meaning out of an innocent context. One is that Moses killed a man prior to his flight from Mesr. Some Jewish sources, including Josepheus does not even mention it, although according to that testament then Moses faces conspiracy because people of the Egyptians in general see him as a threat to their dominance, and as I see, the Children of Israel did not believe him either. It is then that God says to Moses to go there and say 'I am has sent me' as well as show them the signs with the staff and the white hand. From this you also have the Allah term (Be To Thereby (be)) which is Elohim in Hebrew, with both and and being grammatical functions, leaving only to be the actual God word. The same is true for Allah, i.e. is the actual God word (to be). The grammatical function means to be (lit. Be To).
There you have the famous Allah word in a nutshell. It took months to analyze and make sense in what it means. It is third person of "I am that am I" used in the Biblical narration, which I already knew months ago. I just needed how to explain it based on what I know.
But I suppose you will not be able to digest it anyway. Hopefully someone else can and if I wrote this without knowing it is a public forum I would have refrained due to it being pointless.
Salaam
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Ted,
It is a scam nevertheless, in that passage. Please read the subsequent passage. The do not kill yourself does not work there no matter how hard you try unless you are dishonest to yourself and wish to follow lies blindly.
Of course the letter interpretation has no sources because it is I who discovered it. I am conducting research about it as we speak and I usually go here (this forum) to ventilate my thoughts. It is not like I just take a random word and then just say "It means this! I know it!". I reflect and think upon a word sometimes for hours at a time and also cross-check it several times to see if it works in a context. And sometimes I notice a word sounds wrong, but I cannot pinpoint what is wrong until much later. does mean "to convince" after months of trying. If it does not suit a context that it because the original interpretation is needing reinterpretation. Based on that I know much of classical Arabic grammar knowledge is incorrect, this invites for much misconception and also criticism that I have to deal with simultaneously.
The more I work the more I realize many of the stories are interpretation acrobatics of the past to force a meaning out of an innocent context. One is that Moses killed a man prior to his flight from Mesr. Some Jewish sources, including Josepheus does not even mention it, although according to that testament then Moses faces conspiracy because people of the Egyptians in general see him as a threat to their dominance, and as I see, the Children of Israel did not believe him either. It is then that God says to Moses to go there and say 'I am has sent me' as well as show them the signs with the staff and the white hand. From this you also have the Allah term (Be To Thereby (be)) which is Elohim in Hebrew, with both and and being grammatical functions, leaving only to be the actual God word. The same is true for Allah, i.e. is the actual God word (to be). The grammatical function means to be (lit. Be To).
There you have the famous Allah word in a nutshell. It took months to analyze and make sense in what it means. It is third person of "I am that am I" used in the Biblical narration, which I already knew months ago. I just needed how to explain it based on what I know.
But I suppose you will not be able to digest it anyway. Hopefully someone else can and if I wrote this without knowing it is a public forum I would have refrained due to it being pointless.
Salaam
Also if you turn the Hebrew YHWH upside down and flip it or something it looks like the Arabic "Allah" kind of.
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Freedom,
Not sure if that was meant as sarcasm because such emphasis is hard to read in text format, but not likely. YHWH sounds like another word with another meaning. It looks like something that indicates Creator or Sustainer without further research on the real Hebrew letters.
Elohim is a series of various suffixes after the initial El. If you speak about the El of a person in Hebrew you say Elohi and when you refer to people you say Elohim. And if you simply call out from first person singular you say 'el'.
And both Allah and Elohim takes the origin as third person of "I am that am I" which was used in the Book of Moses in the Bible.
It refers as a help for people with understanding of how the realm of the Creator works.
Probably the definition was used to avoid confusion and the removal of gods, but apparently it did not work, for Paganism is still prevalent 4000 years later. Jesus had trouble conveying these facts as well. The main reason now is because people in general have a misrepresenting text they refer to. Not even the Jewish remnant of the "Commandments" are parsed in the right way. When it happened is hard to say, but I know Paganism and the visualization of a God image was also prevalent during Jesus.
Salaam
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But ?praying? is irrelevant for a lifeless object or an animal.
Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
2441 Seest thou not that it is God Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And God knows well all that they do.
4111 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke He said to it and to the earth "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
2218 Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour for Allah carries out all that He wills.
- Yusuf Ali
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
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Freedom,
Not sure if that was meant as sarcasm because such emphasis is hard to read in text format, but not likely. YHWH sounds like another word with another meaning. It looks like something that indicates Creator or Sustainer without further research on the real Hebrew letters.
Elohim is a series of various suffixes after the initial El. If you speak about the El of a person in Hebrew you say Elohi and when you refer to people you say Elohim. And if you simply call out from first person singular you say 'el'.
And both Allah and Elohim takes the origin as third person of "I am that am I" which was used in the Book of Moses in the Bible.
It refers as a help for people with understanding of how the realm of the Creator works.
Probably the definition was used to avoid confusion and the removal of gods, but apparently it did not work, for Paganism is still prevalent 4000 years later. Jesus had trouble conveying these facts as well. The main reason now is because people in general have a misrepresenting text they refer to. Not even the Jewish remnant of the "Commandments" are parsed in the right way. When it happened is hard to say, but I know Paganism and the visualization of a God image was also prevalent during Jesus.
Salaam
Did you know that apparently spoken language was before written language? How would the letter theory thing work when people were not only mostly illiterate throughout history, but even before written language when the words "Uhluh" were being pronounced but there was no writing?
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Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
Yeah, not many people realize Islam is Animistic in many ways.
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Thanks for your detailed response. I see that I need to give a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the Quran to explain my thinking. That is going to take a bit of time in order for me to collect my thoughts and put in words which can be easy to understand.
Whilst I do that I'd like for you to ponder over the following verses
I believe your understanding is that the sky, sun, stars, moon, earth, etc are all lifeless. That the animals don't "pray". However I believe the above verses say the opposite. It seems that the things in the heaven and the earth itself do salat to God. I say salat because that's what it is in the Quran and I don't want to confuse it with prayer which can mean supplication to God which is different.
Salam Brother Ted.
In case you are solely relying on translations to study Qur'an, may be a good idea would be to start paying attention to the underlying arabic words.
Salatahu (ُ does not mean to "his prayer" (prayer = du'a), rather it means something close to "his respect" and Tasbihahu (ُ does not mean to "his praise" (praise = hamd), rather it means something close to "his glorification". So, in 2441 The birds and trees do not know their "prayer" they know their respect which they establish by being true to their God-gifted nature, and they glorify Allah with their beauty and magnificence, not with their words.
If one can establish respect of Allah by being true to his conscience and intellect in every step of his life and can glorify Allah by being the person that everyone praises and remembers - then that is the best salaat and that is the best tasbih. Prayer and praises uttered in mouth is merely an "utterance of mouth" - they mean nothing till they connect to one's actions.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Ted,
The moon, stars etc etc are not lifeless due to being sustained by the "energy"/"consciousness" of Allah, but they do also not have any soul. They do not speak or think as beings.
And they do not really bow down to Allah but the word used (I suppose you imply sujud?) means in service or obedient.
Salaam
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Ted,
The moon, stars etc etc are not lifeless due to being sustained by the "energy"/"consciousness" of Allah, but they do also not have any soul. They do not speak or think as beings.
And they do not really bow down to Allah but the word used (I suppose you imply sujud?) means in service or obedient.
Salaam
I disagree. According to my understanding of the Quran they do have life. I shall be explaining how. Maybe I have got something wrong.
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You mean a lifeless stone without any organic parts or prerequisite to be animate being has a soul?
It is only part of the world which is sustained by Allah but does only exist in Allah.
Salaam
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According to my understanding of the Quran they do have life.
I suppose because of some verses which I read in the Qur'an, I got the similar impression about that. I think the creations such as the sun, the moon, the mountains, even the rocks... are servants of Allah who completely submit to Him.
It seems that they're the type of creatures which are silence toward us, but I think that Allah can make them communicate to us, if He wills. That's my current understanding.
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One thing you are right about JavaLatte. Allah can indeed make the stones alive and even make them with soul, but as long as they are not then they are just matter made of energy (the power of Allah).
Salaam
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Peace Man of Faith,
No, the initials cannot mean anything. No comprehensible text would have a sole letter and then a conjunction straight after that. The letters DO mean to carry a meaning of their own.
You still haven't told me the source of the innate meaning of the letters. How do you know what the individual letters mean other than your personal conjecture?
refers to follow/conceive what is good, while refers to follow/conceive mere being, i.e. your ways. I said behavior before, but this has been used against me in all sorts of arguments such as ambiguity.
The letter itself means good and that is why it is used in all sorts of root words that refer to good in ways. Want examples? , . Obviously they do not mean the same, but they utilize 'good' to form what they want to convey. Note that 'good' is an interpretation and that the letters are of the simplest possible abstract meaning.
You need to see the distinction between minding who you are and a friendly approach. is meaning what you suggest, but you need to draw the distinction between that and salateh. Salateh refers to your way of life or lifestyle if you want to choose a relatively modern English word. I hope you can see the distinction.
I agree with you that salat cannot mean "behavior".
You completely misunderstood what I said to you. I know that salehin means good. I wasn't comparing "salehin" and "salat". What I was saying is that "amal" can mean "ways" or "lifestyle" in al-quran, so "amalu salehin" would be "good ways" or "good lifestyle". Salat cannot mean "ways" or "lifestyle" as used in al-quran because that meaning won't fit in the salat verses. "Amal" is more likely to have that meaning.
please check an Arabic dictionary for the word and you shall find that one of the alternative definitions is "to follow". That is distinctively different from connection/contact.
I agree that one of the meanings of salat is "to follow very closely". When you follow anything very closely you "connect" with it. Actually if you use al-quran as its own dictionary, salat means "to turn towards". 7531-32 implies that the opposite of salat is to turn away. Thus implying salat is to turn towards.
7531 For he did not believe nor salla
7532 But he denied and turned away.As per al-quran, aqimi al-salat is a way of turning towards the Creator at certain times of the day so that one can remember the Creator and learn how to mind one's ways. It does not mean "mind one's ways" itself.
The people ask Shu'ayb if his ways mean they have to do this or that. Not that he channeled or had connection by that word.
They didn't ask if his salat means they have to do this or that. They asked if his salat commanded if they have to do this or that. So "ways" does not fit in that verse as meaning of salat, because "ways" don't command anything.
Mind one's ways is a general expression if you know. It is timeless. It is just what a majority of people fail to keep in mind.
Exactly! That's why "aqimi al-salat" cannot mean "mind one's ways" because as per 1778 and 11114 salat is limited to certain times of the day.
And look, the word means "conceive to be", how you lead your life. If you want to be evil that is your choice, but it is pretty obvious if someone tells you to mind who you are then you know what is expected. Salawa refers to just that.
How you lead your life is "amalu salehin" and not "aqimi al-salaat".
We can sort this out once and for all. Why don't you translate the ENTIRE salat verses 1778, 11114 and 2458 to see if your salat meaning makes any sense.
1778 Uphold al-salat at the rubbing of the sun, until the darkening of the night; and the Qur'an at dawn-the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.
11114 And uphold al-salat at two parts of the day, and the near parts of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
2458 mentions salat al-fajr/dawn salat and salat al-3isha/dusk salat.
Minding one's ways is not limited to certain times of the day. In these 3 verses salat is clearly limited to certain times of the day, so "aqimi al-salat" cannot mean "mind one's ways".
If you disagree then please translate these 3 verses completely instead of translating only salat.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Those passages do not speak of any timing. The timing inference is incorrect, everywhere in Quran. I have a few months old translations regarding the passages in my 'Nearness and Guidance' thread somewhere on the forum. I am wiser since then, but overall the translations should be fairly accurate.
And minding your ways is perfectly viable to teach your children. It is the best way and to enable a person to think for themselves. It means mind how you are. There are even parents who say to their children to mind their ways.
And no matter if I am not right about an individual letter it is hardly conjecture because you have at least a few examples in Quran where the letter(s) are followed by a conjunction. It forces the letter to have its own meaning no matter what you say or it is utterly illogical and a weird text.
Be good is part of your ways. And ways includes everything that this ancient text teaches as well. And sometimes a choice is not good but it is the wisest you can do. See in war contexts for example when you sacrifice individual soldiers for some mission where you choose the lesser of two evils. This does not have to be something you can categorize as good.
You need to understand the knowledge and wisdom of God.
While with God everything is good, in this world then due to Satan this is not always possible, but you can always do the lesser of two evils which was wise even if it is hardly good.
Mind your ways is just this, to be able to reflect upon what kind of consequences every little action will cause. It is general on your whole life. You may not always be able to do absolutely good but if you minded the options then at least you tried.
And killing someone in the course of justice is not good, even if sometimes a necessary evil. Can you then forgive an offense, then that is good.
Salaam
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I forgot to mention that the words for punishment imply an evil meaning. Words to punish include a letter that has a negative meaning, even if attributed to Allah.
The life is a balance between good vs. evil, for the cause of balance in your ways for the right cause.
Salaam
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My understanding from the Quran is that vast majority of entities in the universe such as angels, animals, the earth, mountains, the stars, the sky, the sun are alive. When I say alive I mean they have a soul and have a body. The soul I guess is the same/similar in essence in all living things such as the angels, animals, earth, humans, jinn etc. However some souls are given different levels of purpose, abilities, honour, etc. Some of these abilities are at the soul level some at the physical level. For example at the soul level some have different thoughts at the physical level they can either take the shape of the sun, earth, animals, mountains etc.
I believe the following verses in the Quran support the theory that the heavens, sky, earth and mountains are living.
3372 We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;-
4111 Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke He said to it and to the earth "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
4429 And neither heaven nor earth shed a tear over them nor were they given a respite (again).
5921 Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.
841-5 When the sky is rent asunder, And hearkens to (the Command of) its Lord, and it must needs (do so);- And when the earth is flattened out, And casts forth what is within it and becomes (clean) empty, And hearkens to (the Command of) its Lord,- and it must needs (do so);- (then will come Home the full reality).
In verse 3372 God says he offered the Trust to the Heavens and Earth but they refused to undertake it and were afraid to. What the Trust was I'm not sure on but I have theory which I'll not go into here. The key things from this verse is that the Heavens and Earth refused and that they were afraid. This to me means that the Heavens and Earth have are living as only living things can refuse and be afraid. From this I get the impression that the Heavens and Earth have a "will" just as we have a will and God has a will. It also reveals that the Heavens and Earth are actually able to and have the ability to refuse something which God commands them to do.
Verse 4111 again reinforces the argument of the sky (not the Heavens) and the earth having the ability to obey/disobey God as they responde to God by saying "We do come (together), in willing obedience".
Verses 4429 and 5921 reveal that Heaven and Earth have feelings of fear and are able to shed "tears".
I think it's easier for use to accept that animals are living entities like ourselves since we can obseve some of them having similar feelings/behaviour as us such as pain, love for their offspring, the forming of communities, etc. Hence why God makes commands us to be caring to animals and to not drink their blood as it contains life.
I disagree with the idea that angels are unable to disobey God. I don't think they're robots. Just like us they have a will, feelings, understanding and are able to obey/disobey God.
For me the above makes sense when trying to establish the meaning of the term "muslim". To me the definition of muslim as "one who submits to the will of God" is adequate and makes it concise. I take the meaning of "submit" to mean that your know what the will of God is and accept and obey it. To know the will of God you need to have been told it. This needs separation from the innate sense of right and wrong that we are all born with. We all have an innate sense of morality, we know it's wrong to lie, steal, murder, be unfaithful, defraud, curse, etc. Hence why all people, both religious and non religious, can be perfectly nice, honest and good people.
So if I take the understanding above then that means no one is born a muslim. They are born a believer as I think everyone has an innate sense of there being God but this innate sense of God usually get's overwritten by what their parents/family/community/society believe in. Even someone born in a muslim family is not a muslim unless they get to a level where they understand and know God and are then carrying out God's will with their actions. Somone born in a muslim family may simply be blindly following their parents/family/community.
The sky and Earth are muslim because they are aware of God and when God gave them a command they obeyed it. If they had disobeyed they would not be classed as muslim as they did not submit to God's will. Even if the sky and Earth had been unwilling to come together as God commanded in verse 4111 they would still be classed as muslim. So even if you carry out God's command unwillingly I think it's OK. Obeying God's is the most criteria.
Abraham was a muslim because he heard and obeyed all of God's command. The Jews are/were muslim as long as they obey God's command in the Torah. The Christians as muslim as long as they obey the teachings of Jesus. Jesus himself was muslim and I believe he was perhaps the only one born a muslim. I don't believe Prophet Mohammed was born a muslim or was a muslim in his early life. He became a muslim once he started to obey the commands of God when it was sent down to him, same applies to Abraham and the prophets such as Salih, Hud, Noah and Moses.
This means as followers of the Quran we have to obey whatever God has commanded us in there. The Quran is a revelation from God which contains guidance and God's will. If we obey those commands either willingly or unwillingy and do it with the intention of obeying God then that makes us muslim. The same applies to all nations who are given scripture from God. Those people who believe in God and work righteosness because of their innate sense of morality are not muslims. This doesn't mean that they are destined for Hell. To me they are believers of which some may actually attain highest achievement in the hereafter.
Hope the above makes sense.