Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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In verse 3372 God says he offered the Trust to the Heavens and Earth but they refused to undertake it and were afraid to. What the Trust was I'm not sure on but I have theory which I'll not go into here. The key things from this verse is that the Heavens and Earth refused and that they were afraid. This to me means that the Heavens and Earth have are living as only living things can refuse and be afraid. From this I get the impression that the Heavens and Earth have a "will" just as we have a will and God has a will. It also reveals that the Heavens and Earth are actually able to and have the ability to refuse something which God commands them to do.
I like your understanding which I quoted above, it is pleasant to read. Praise be to Allah.
And remember also this verse.
(274)
Then your hearts became hardened after that, being like rocks or even harder. For indeed, there are rocks from which rivers gush forth, and there are some of them that split open and water comes out, and there are some of them that fall down for fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. -
I disagree with the idea that angels are unable to disobey God. I don't think they're robots. Just like us they have a will, feelings, understanding and are able to obey/disobey God.
I'm open for similar understanding as yours in this issue. I think it's possible that the angels are able to disobey Allah, because as far as I know and as far as I can understand, there is no verse in the Qur'an which refutes such understanding.
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Ted,
Your writings are not too bad. I disagree that planets, stars or stones have any soul however but they are just illusive matter shaped out of the "energy"/force which sustains the universe and have no attached soul even if they could have an attached soul should God will.
Most people here misunderstand my stance on faith due to certain controversial "Islam" arguments and that I found an interpretation which is more in line with typical Jesus expressions in the Biblical Gospels and even the Old Testament concerning Moses and "I AM". I do acknowledge God as the only One in existence, and even more so than many others despite their misconception and I do not seek to remove prayers either; I only seek to remove Pagan elements and the visualization delusion concerning God and turning Allah into an image separate from existence. Doing that has already broken commandment two of the COMMANDMENTS to Moses, which still are active because the decree never changes. God does not change nature.
Prayers exist in Quran and they are performed using the Arabic word du'a which does not only mean supplication but it does mean to call upon/pray for. And prayers have no compulsory timing schedule but that is a forced derivative based on ancient interpretation acrobatics on an innocent text. Even the wrong word has been attributed. It is ironically now saying that you should only mind your ways on specific occasions throughout the day. Very selective.
All prophets call upon Rabb according to Quran and not Allah and it has its reasons. Rabb literally means 'Foundation With/In' so you basically call upon your foundation, which can be best referred to as Sustainer, in my opinion based on the literal Arabic meaning.
There is a reason why Allah is not used as a dialog option for conversation by the prophets and other people and that is due to it being wrong from a linguistic sense depending on the literal Hebrew and Arabic meaning of the Allah word. I wrote earlier that it literally means "To be that is".
Allah is used once in direct conversation and then by ignorant sectarian people who call upon Allah by that title clearly viewing God as an image. Otherwise Allah is only used in reference as demonstration for people.
God can perhaps be referred to as an entity but then you have to view it properly and that you refer to everything in existence. Only those who find the spirit in God truly exist. The rest will experience the phenomenon traditionally called Gehenna. Our purpose is to make sure we merge and belong with the Sustainer and for that we need the right affinity.
Salaam -
I like your understanding which I quoted above, it is pleasant to read. Praise be to Allah.
And remember also this verse.
(274)
Then your hearts became hardened after that, being like rocks or even harder. For indeed, there are rocks from which rivers gush forth, and there are some of them that split open and water comes out, and there are some of them that fall down for fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.Thanks for your kind words. It's nice to hear other believers share a similar understanding of your own.
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I'm open for similar understanding as yours in this issue. I think it's possible that the angels are able to disobey Allah, because as far as I know and as far as I can understand, there is no verse in the Qur'an which refutes such understanding.
I believe that the angels fear God and they love him. They fear God because they know that there are consequences. They love him because he is just, righteous, caring, merciful and forgiving and probably many other things we don't know. If the angels were robotic then to me it doesn't make sense for them to have fear. They wouldn't question God as to why he was creating mankind and God would not test their knowledge. For me the angels are a special class of beings who are devoutly obedient to God and are pure in thought and actions and are extremely beautiful. Hence people using the term "his behaviour was like that of an angel", "he looks like an angel", etc.
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Most people here misunderstand my stance on faith due to certain controversial "Islam" arguments and that I found an interpretation which is more in line with typical Jesus expressions in the Biblical Gospels and even the Old Testament concerning Moses and "I AM". I do acknowledge God as the only One in existence, and even more so than many others despite their misconception and I do not seek to remove prayers either; I only seek to remove Pagan elements and the visualization delusion concerning God and turning Allah into an image separate from existence. Doing that has already broken commandment two of the COMMANDMENTS to Moses, which still are active because the decree never changes. God does not change nature.
Prayers exist in Quran and they are performed using the Arabic word du'a which does not only mean supplication but it does mean to call upon/pray for. And prayers have no compulsory timing schedule but that is a forced derivative based on ancient interpretation acrobatics on an innocent text. Even the wrong word has been attributed. It is ironically now saying that you should only mind your ways on specific occasions throughout the day. Very selective.
All prophets call upon Rabb according to Quran and not Allah and it has its reasons. Rabb literally means 'Foundation With/In' so you basically call upon your foundation, which can be best referred to as Sustainer, in my opinion based on the literal Arabic meaning.
There is a reason why Allah is not used as a dialog option for conversation by the prophets and other people and that is due to it being wrong from a linguistic sense depending on the literal Hebrew and Arabic meaning of the Allah word. I wrote earlier that it literally means "To be that is".
Allah is used once in direct conversation and then by ignorant sectarian people who call upon Allah by that title clearly viewing God as an image. Otherwise Allah is only used in reference as demonstration for people.
God can perhaps be referred to as an entity but then you have to view it properly and that you refer to everything in existence. Only those who find the spirit in God truly exist. The rest will experience the phenomenon traditionally called Gehenna. Our purpose is to make sure we merge and belong with the Sustainer and for that we need the right affinity.
SalaamI think I'm beginning to understand your model/view of the world. However I disagree with it. I don't think you've understood some things correctly.
You say "I do acknowledge God as the only One in existence". Not entirely sure what you mean here but we all exist. The heavens, earth, sky, angels, animals, plants, trees, etc. God made all these things and they will continue to exist as long as God wills them to exist. On Day of Judgement some things will be destroyed, some will be reshaped, some things will be created new. Our bodies will be resurrected. All of creation has been created into a reality in which we all exist and God exists in. All this will not be spiritual. The hereafter will not be spiritual. It will be real, physical just as it is today. Except that in the hereafter there will be no death. For those who make it to paradise they will reside their in physical bodies and eat, drink, walk around, wear clothes, enjoy time just as they do in this life. Except that there will no longer be decay, uncleanliness, vain talk, pain, etc. Everything will just perfect for the residents of paradise. We are born into this reality and we will return to this reality on the Day of Judgement.
You said "I only seek to remove Pagan elements and the visualization delusion concerning God and turning Allah into an image separate from existence.". I think what you are saying is that by doing salat the way billions of muslims currently do it by bowing and prostrating 5 times a day or more at certain times makes this a pagan element since there is "visualization" involved. And that the proper way to do it is with just your mind. I don't believe this is from paganism and I do think salat needs to be done in the current form as it is done by billions of muslims today.
We exist in a physical reality. Everything in this physical reality has been subjected to us for our needs and for other purposes, for example to be tested with. As believers in God we use this physical reality to learn and know about God and purify our souls. We learn about God by being able to observe the world around us, by talking and listening to those who are wiser than us, or by sharing experiences with one another and when we are tested by God through hunger, loss of life, wealth, children, families, etc.
We show our obedience to God physically through our actions. It's not enough to simply be obedient through the mind. We have to go through hunger, pain, suffering. We have to physically give our wealth in the name of God and we have to physically help people. We don't do it through the mind. For me, salat by bowing and prostrating has been around since the beginning much before paganism started being practiced. Pagans most likely were doing as the muslims were doing until the pagans decided to create their false gods and worship them in the same/similar manner that the muslims were worshipping God. The Old Testament clearly describes the way in which the priests need to worship God. It's mostly physical. This includes the sacrificing of animals.
Abraham was instructed to build the Kaaba to which pilgrims could visit and perform rituals. As I understand it Hajj was already being performed by the pagans at Mecca but they had added their own false gods. The prophet Mohammed was sent to restore the ritual back to it's original purpose, the worship of God, as well as deliver a message to all of mankind and establish a new People of the Book. The existing People of the Book at the time were the Jews and Christians. Today the Muslims are now also the People of the Book even though the Jews and Christians would disagree.
The Qibla and other rituals are different to that of the Jews and Christians and other religions is because that's what separates us from being a Jew, Christian and Muslim. I don't believe it's God's intention that all of mankind do salat in the same way or to have the same days of celebrations or to have the exact same laws or to dress the same way or to have the same name of God. God made each nation different so that we can get to know each other nicely and celebrate our differences, yet we are all to worship the same God.
If you read the New Testament, Jesus was sent to correct/help the Jews. He wasn't sent to create new laws or remove existing ones. He never complained about the way the pharisees worshipped God in the temples. He told them to stop doing things just to show people how righteous and holy they were when they were meant to only do things for the purpose of pleasing God. So Jesus told his followers to put oil on their head and wash their faces so that no one could tell they were fasting. When praying he told them to go into a room by themselves and close the door and pray.
By doing salat we are not only showing our obedience to God physically but we can also use it to discipline ourselves and remind ourselves of God properly. It also serves as something which separates us from people of other religions and non believers. For non believers it can be a way of subtly inviting them to God. Maybe God uses this to bring non believers to his religion and also remind other believers as to their duty to God.
So doing physical rituals in worshipping God is not paganism. Paganism is of the mind rather than something of the physical world. If you look at certain pagan religions of today and the past you'll find they are worshipping their own desires. Some worshipped a fertility god in order to have children. In india today some worship the god Ganesh in order to have obstacles to removed from their path and maybe be successful in life. Paganism is about worshipping your desires or the desire of others.
People of the Book worship and do the will/desire of God if they follow it.
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I believe that the angels fear God and they love him. They fear God because they know that there are consequences. They love him because he is just, righteous, caring, merciful and forgiving and probably many other things we don't know. If the angels were robotic then to me it doesn't make sense for them to have fear. They wouldn't question God as to why he was creating mankind and God would not test their knowledge. For me the angels are a special class of beings who are devoutly obedient to God and are pure in thought and actions and are extremely beautiful. Hence people using the term "his behaviour was like that of an angel", "he looks like an angel", etc.
Lovely explanation, brother Ted,
but maybe we could review this part
and are extremely beautiful.
This... I don't know. I'm not sure if they're all extremely beautiful.
I don't know how they look like, maybe their looks are adjusted to their tasks.
Because of what mentioned in the verse 666, I'm not sure if they (the angels who guard hell) look beautiful.
(666)
O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are angels, harsh and severe, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.(7431)
And We have not made the guardians of the Fire except angels, . . .Peace.
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This... I don't know. I'm not sure if they're all extremely beautiful.
I don't know how they look like, maybe their looks are adjusted to their tasks.
Because of what mentioned in the verse 666, I'm not sure if they (the angels who guard hell) look beautiful.
(666)
O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are angels, harsh and severe, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.(7431)
And We have not made the guardians of the Fire except angels, . . .Peace.
I agree.
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The heavens, earth, sky, angels, animals, plants, trees, etc. God made all these things and they will continue to exist as long as God wills them to exist. On Day of Judgement some things will be destroyed, some will be reshaped, some things will be created new. Our bodies will be resurrected. All of creation has been created into a reality in which we all exist and God exists in. All this will not be spiritual. The hereafter will not be spiritual. It will be real, physical just as it is today. Except that in the hereafter there will be no death. For those who make it to paradise they will reside their in physical bodies and eat, drink, walk around, wear clothes, enjoy time just as they do in this life. Except that there will no longer be decay, uncleanliness, vain talk, pain, etc. Everything will just perfect for the residents of paradise. We are born into this reality and we will return to this reality on the Day of Judgement.
Wow! I like what you wrote above, I really LIKE it. It's refreshing to finally read such understanding in this forum. Clear and simple, easy to understand.
I disagree with people who describe paradise and hell far-fetched/different from the explanation in the Qur'an, but at the same time also use some parts of the Qur'an to back up their understanding.
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Salam Ted.
Looks like we are set for a long discussion here. Let me take a deep breath and begin.
Form your last response to me, I gather the following summary points which I?d like to discuss one after another
- Majority of entities in the universe such as angels, animals, the earth, mountains, the stars, the sky, the sun are alive ? that is they have a soul and a body.
- You disagree with the idea that angels are unable to disobey God. Just like us they have a will, feelings, understanding and are able to obey/disobey God.
- To you the definition of muslim as "one who submits to the will of God" is adequate and makes it concise. I take the meaning of "submit" to mean that your know what the will of God is and accept and obey it.
I believe the third point is the key point which we need to discuss in great details. For the first 2 points I?ll just share my views with you.
Majority of entities in the universe such as angels, animals, the earth, mountains, the stars, the sky, the sun are alive ? that is they have a soul and a body.
My agreement and disagreement with you solely depends on how you define ?life / alive? and ?soul?.
Qur?an repeatedly says Allah brings dead from the alive and alive from the dead (example, verse 327). The terms alive and dead totally loose there meaning if we consider inanimate objects as ?alive?. Per my definition, to be alive one needs to have a soul (nafs) - an individual ?consciousness? quarantined from the overreaching consciousness driving the entire universe (i.e. The ?Spirit/Ruh? of Allah), and inanimate objects per this definition are not alive.
Also you can see in my definition inanimate objects (stars, sun, mountains etc.) do not have ?soul (nafs)? of their own. But then again, everything in the universe do leverage upon the overreaching consciousness of the singularity driving the entire universe (i.e. The ?Spirit/Ruh? of Allah) ? and from that perspective everything has access to a soul.
So, when Allah says Allah told the mountain such and such and they replied such and such it does not necessarily mean that the mountain has a separate individual ?consciousness? quarantined from Ruh of Allah. Rather it simply means the Ruh of Allah commanded the mountain to do something and it obliged as it has no separate free will OR, the Ruh of Allah considered some task for the mountain but Ruh of Allah decided that it would be too much to ask from the mountain.
A good illustration of this concept can be our heart. Although our heart is a critical part of our body, it is not under direct control of our individual ?consciousness? quarantined from the Ruh of Allah. Rather it is under direct control of Ruh of Allah. It bits in its own rhythm just like Allah wants it to beat. The moment Allah will ?say? ?O heart of Armanaziz, stop beating? ? it will stop and there is absolutely nothing the individual ?consciousness? of Armanaziz can do to force it to continue beating. And the heart of Armanaziz will not shed a drop of tear over ?individual? Armanaziz.
The above doesn?t mean my heart can talk and shed tear out of its own individual consciousness. No - at least not in the life of this world.
Angels have a will, feelings, understanding and are able to obey/disobey God.
I understand angels to be spiritual beings, rather than physical beings. But I tend to agree that it is likely they have free will and soul (i.e. individual ?consciousness? quarantined from the Ruh of Allah). Accurate knowledge of their nature is a matter of Al-ghaib (unobservable realm) and I am happy to admit I have faith in them but I do not ?understand? them.
The meaning of "submit" to mean that your know what the will of God is and accept and obey it.
Those people who believe in God and work righteousness because of their innate sense of morality are not muslims. This doesn't mean that they are destined for Hell. To me they are believers of which some may actually attain highest achievement in the hereafter.
I am bringing your last comment affront because this contradicts the understanding how the term ?muslim? and ?islam? has been used in Qur?an. All your arguments seem to be based on the idea that ?islam? or being ?muslim? is a higher quality that we should strive to achieve ? it is not a mandatory requirement. That simply doesn?t seem to match what Qur?an says. Let?s explore the below verses
383 So, do they seek (ways) besides Allah?s resolution (ِ, while whatever is in the heavens and the earth have submitted to Him willingly or under compulsion, and they will be returned to Him?
384 Say, ?We put faith in Allah and what is sent down on us and what was sent down on Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Master. We do not differentiate among any of them and we are submissive (َ to Him.
385 And whoever seeks a resolution (ا other than peace/submission (ِ then never will (it) be accepted from him and in the hereafter he will be among the losers.
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
Two important points to note for you in the above. First, accepting ?islam/submission? and being ?muslim? has been portrayed as a mandatory requirement ? not an optional ?higher rank? that believers should strive to achieve as you put it.
Second point, even though the message is towards the readers / followers of Qur?an, verse 384 even does not mention ?Qur?an? or ?Muhammad? while explaining how to be a muslim. Rather the emphasis is one ? we are muslim by accepting the ?same? teaching which is brought to humanity by all the Prophets. And the ?same? teaching is nothing but obeying our God-gifted senses of right and wrong.
A real Prophet and/or Gabriel can never seek blind adherence to a message which is contrary to our God-gifted senses of right and wrong. If someone claims to preach God?s message and tell us to blindly follow it ? immediately that has to be a red-flag. Either we are misunderstanding or he is an imposter.
379 It is not to be for any (living) being that Allah would give him the book, the wisdom and the prophet-hood, (but) later he would say to mankind, ?Be slaves to me from beside Allah.? But rather (he would say), ?Be rabbis (i.e. devotees of the Master) because you would be teaching the book, and because you would be studying it.?
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
If we understand that being a muslim is all about taking the resolution / life-choice (Arabic deen) that I would be submissive to my senses of right and wrong and live in harmony with the universe ? then it becomes clear that messengers and scriptures do not play an essential role in this resolution ? they only play a supporting role.
The Jews are/were muslim as long as they obey God's command in the Torah. The Christians as muslim as long as they obey the teachings of Jesus. Jesus himself was muslim and I believe he was perhaps the only one born a muslim. I don't believe Prophet Mohammed was born a muslim or was a muslim in his early life. He became a muslim once he started to obey the commands of God when it was sent down to him, same applies to Abraham and the prophets such as Salih, Hud, Noah and Moses.
And what is the verdict for the Hindus, Budhdhist, Followers of Confucius and traditional Chinese / Japanese religion, Taoism, Deists, Agnostics and so on? The mercy and compassion of Allah is only for the followers of Abrahamic faith?
A human being born in a rural setting (say in a remote village of China) fully grateful to have the gift of life, taking full responsibility for being fair and equitable to everyone, taking full accountability of his actions and striving with his life and wealth to do good to others ? will be considered not submitting to God?s will (and thereby non-muslim) simply because he did not have access to the ?knowledge of scriptures?? His resolution / life-choice (Arabic deen) of upholding his conscience and morality will never be acceptable to Allah (385)?
Think.
Now I?d focus on some of your other comments
To know the will of God you need to have been told it. This needs separation from the innate sense of right and wrong that we are all born with. We all have an innate sense of morality, we know it's wrong to lie, steal, murder, be unfaithful, defraud, curse, etc. Hence why all people, both religious and non religious, can be perfectly nice, honest and good people.
The refutation of your assumption that to know will of God we need to have been told it - is already built into in your argument above. Your argument is our inherent sense alone does not suffice to keep us from doing bad. So the additional information must be a necessity. I would say, even those who are ?told? to do good frequently misunderstand the message and continue doing bad anyway. So the message the messengers bring to us are nothing but reminder.
So if I take the understanding above then that means no one is born a muslim. They are born a believer as I think everyone has an innate sense of there being God but this innate sense of God usually get's overwritten by what their parents/family/community/society believe in. Even someone born in a muslim family is not a muslim unless they get to a level where they understand and know God and are then carrying out God's will with their actions. Somone born in a muslim family may simply be blindly following their parents/family/community.
This is very problematic understanding. This gives rise to conclusions which are morally not acceptable. For example, if children are not born muslim, do you say a child born in a ?non-muslim? family, who dies before his senses are developed ? say at the age of 5 ? is a ?non-Muslim? and his ?deen? will never be acceptable to Allah (385)?
So even if you carry out God's command unwillingly I think it's OK. Obeying God's is the most criteria.
Doesn?t this statement directly contradict what you said before ? that Even someone born in a muslim family is not a muslim unless they get to a level where they understand and know God and are then carrying out God's will with their actions. If really obeying God?s commands is the key criteria ? then why do you emphasize ?Understanding and knowing God?s command? to be an indispensable criteria. Does everybody in the world need to study some scripture or other and if they don?t they are destined to hell? Do everybody in the world have fair and equitable access to the knowledge of religious scriptures? If they don?t then has God done injustice to them by simply letting them to be born in families with zero or minimum access to religious teaching?
Abraham was a muslim because he heard and obeyed all of God's command.
No I disagree. This is not what I read about Abraham in Qur?an. Abraham was a muslim when he willingly submitted to the Master of the Universe by upholding his God gifted senses of right and wrong. Physically ?hearing? God?s message, even if we assume that happened, it was an after effect.
This means as followers of the Quran we have to obey whatever God has commanded us in there.
This is a dangerous line of thought which may lead to sin of blind faith ? leading up to shirk (associating a book as a partner to Allah). The Boko Haram / ISIS gong has been led astray because of thinking like this. Be very careful, Qur?an can both guide and deviate ? depends on how you approach it
226 Indeed Allah is not embarrassed to set forth an example of even a mosquito or something above it ? then as for those who have put faith, so they know that is the truth from their Master, and as for those who repress (faith) so they say ?What does Allah intend by this example?? He deviates many with it and guides many with it, but He does not deviate with it anyone except the willfully disobedient .
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
The correct way of articulation should be as followers of the Quran we have to obey our God-gifted conscience and intellect and we have to be obedient to our Master who has given the sense of right and wrong. For us Qur?an is a wise reminder and an illuminating guide.
Only if we put obedience to God first, the consciousness of our utter dependence on the overreaching consciousness driving the entire universe (i.e. The ?Spirit/Ruh? of Allah) first, ONLY THEN we can hope to derive the guidance from Qur?an. Otherwise ?zihad? will continue to sound like war against Non-Muslims and Salaat will continue to sound like ?Our daily dose of song and dance mandatorily required by our deity ? if someone doesn?t do it, he is an apostate and it is our duty to kill him?.
Please try to go through the examples of messengers in Qur'an. Again and again they are telling their people I am only an advisor, I am only reminding you, I am only warning you etc. They never say, blindly obey me because I am telling you what God wants you to do and if you have not heard me you do not know what God wants you to do.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Ok Ted. You are free to think whatever you like. But my understanding is from what Quran teaches. There are no rituals. Those are from Paganism.
And the next world is not physical. It will not be the same kind of experience. Your body you have here is not what you will have next.
Salaam
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Redundant post. Sorry.
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And the next world is not physical. It will not be the same kind of experience. Your body you have here is not what you will have next.
I agree that our bodies here on earth won't be the exact same ones in the hereafter. I think they will be better most likely still made from the earth. However it will still be physical. I'd appreciate if you could let me know why and support your view using the Quran.
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Ok Ted. You are free to think whatever you like. But my understanding is from what Quran teaches. There are no rituals. Those are from Paganism.
Please let me know why think the Quran does prescribe rituals on Muslims and other nations. Do you not consider Hajj, fasting, Eid, passover, Friday congregations, sabbath, etc. rituals? Maybe I have misunderstood your meaning of ritual.
Would also appreciate your understanding of paganism and how it arose/arises.
Thanks
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No. None of that stuff is in Quran.
Salaam -
No. None of that stuff is in Quran.
SalaamAre you saying Hajj is not in the Quran?
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Salaam Ted,
I was a bit short last post due to time limitation and I gave no explanation. It is more fair to say that the inferred rituals you referred to do not exist in Quran, for I suppose you referred to Hajj pilgrimage, Ramadhan marathon fast and salateh prostration ritual.
Hajj as a pilgrimage to a holy site does not exist in Quran. It is important to first of all clear out that masjed haram does not mean a remote building in the desert of Arabia and the next prerequisite is also ultimate fail since masjed does not even refer to a building but a specific referral (attribute) to a person who is sujud which in return does not imply prostration but obedience.
To my understanding "Hajj" as a true interpretation refers to the kind of community service which Jesus was involved in and commanded his disciples about, to go around serving the assembly and do good which I take is general charitable deeds.
Since Quran seems to mainly aim its attention primarily at select people who devote their whole time to the faith, then this is obviously their Hajj. Quran basically teaches how a person is supposed to preach the message. This is evident in all 'say' commands. In certain passages of chapter 2 it even reads; "if you speak to X then say Y".
Given some light on the scripture it reveals both a vastly different message as the traditional interpretation and also shows that it is aimed towards select people, i.e. those wise enough to not be beguiled by the Pagan delusion distorting the whole text. It is meant as a help to go around preaching about God, basically, to find arguments to be able to proclaim the faith without Pagan delusions. For example, the huge image making of God contrary to the second commandment of the list revealed to Moses.
Fasting as a practice is no ritual and it is either as a repentance, show of grief or a personal preference to help oneself learn to reduce their worldliness. I personally would rather reduce consumption and become aware of my meal sizes and just give the body what it needs. Or do like the Jews during the Passover by abstaining from leavened bread which can be equal today with not consuming any sweetened food for a period.
Paganism you asked for a definition about and I will attempt to make one.
Paganism is fundamentally
Making god(s) into (an) image(s). Does not matter if the God is called Allah.
Worship of the same image in an attempt to please it in very primitive ways.
Seemingly meaningless rituals considered the lack of need for any rituals due to that the real Allah does not really need it. And you cannot bribe Allah. Plus Allah has no ego.
Misconception that leads to separation of Allah through image-making from the real concept of merging and become assimilated with the phenomenon of Allah and to walk in its spirit.
It also often leads to animosity because people consider "their god" (image) to be better than another Pagan sect's god and what that image revealed in terms of religion and rituals. Quran gives example of that in a quarrel between what it calls Yahood and Nasara, despite that both pursue the same knowledge, yet the already failed because they make images (traditionally idolatry). It is a bit ironical that you can commit idolatry with Allah, but you can. Their prophets are often the real images however and this becomes stronger for those who indulge in a lot of falsehood (like Muslims tragically have done in ignorance). Muhammad is as much idol.as Jesus and none is better than the other. It does not really matter about that Muslims refrain from the son word because it is still on the same level of fixation.
And both the prophet of the Quran and Jesus would have taught using the principle "Be in the Creator and the Creator is in you". They say this because they let their identity and ego get absorbed into the consciousness of Allah instead of existing separately. Those who exist separately will have trouble later, even if their good deeds may save them if they led a sufficiently good life.
And to get absorbed in Allah is no magic procedure of pleasing a god through meaningless and empty glorification but it is about getting spiritual affinity and do the assimilated works. Affinity-building generates affiliation and guidance inspiration and soon knowledge and wisdom of the realm.
But it takes devout dedication and to work on your ways and to convince yourself and to be more aware of animalistic instincts of your beast body and to mend them. Control the beast in you by finding the spirit, that spirit of the Creator in which image you were made to tread. And no separate image because think "I am that am I".
Now you got a little lesson. Mind it or not is up to you, but I hope someone else will appreciate it if you do not.
And remember to treat Allah devoutly. And that means to show your works in union.
Otherwise you do not belong with the Creator and is not the Creation of the Creator. Your empty shell is a mere illusion projected by the "force field" of Allah and your soul shall be cast out or rather not be let into the realm.Salaam
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Fasting as a practice is no ritual and it is either as a repentance, show of grief or a personal preference to help oneself learn to reduce their worldliness. I personally would rather reduce consumption and become aware of my meal sizes and just give the body what it needs. Or do like the Jews during the Passover by abstaining from leavened bread which can be equal today with not consuming any sweetened food for a period.
Can you please cite from the Quran why you think fasting is "either as a repentance, show of grief or a personal preference to help oneself learn to reduce their worldliness".
Why do you think Jews and Jesus himself celebrated passover? Please cite your references to the Bible or other text.
Thanks
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Salam Ted.
Looks like we are set for a long discussion here. Let me take a deep breath and begin.
Form your last response to me, I gather the following summary points which I?d like to discuss one after another
- Majority of entities in the universe such as angels, animals, the earth, mountains, the stars, the sky, the sun are alive ? that is they have a soul and a body.
- You disagree with the idea that angels are unable to disobey God. Just like us they have a will, feelings, understanding and are able to obey/disobey God.
- To you the definition of muslim as "one who submits to the will of God" is adequate and makes it concise. I take the meaning of "submit" to mean that your know what the will of God is and accept and obey it.
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Armanaziz,
Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed well written response. I shall be collecting my thoughts and writing a response shortly.