Does Islam allow homosexuality?
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Simple answer. It's not mentioned in Quran at all. If it was sinful it would have certainly been mentioned. Similarly, how to wipe your butt is nowhere mentioned in Quran, still I assume you are wiping your butt without feeling like you are violating Gods system with it.
You are injecting rules into Gods system. You are filling in the gaps as you feel is right. Quran clearly warns against doing such a thing.
You can still be a homophobic yourself but there is no proof whatsoever God is sharing that opinion.
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I'll ignore the insults you made (I'll let a moderator deal with that part) and ask you to show your quranic evidence.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Then, why can't you provide one single (Quranic) evidence in favor of homosexuality !?
This request is not rational. The reason being that nobody can provide specific verses in support of MOST things they encounter in life. For example, please give me the verse in support of using computers and the internet. You won't find such a verse. So, the RATIONAL rules of interpretation should be to not assume that something is ILLEGAL unless there is a LAW against it. In the same manner, if you cannot make a case AGAINST homosexuality based on the Qur'an, it automatically gets a green signal from Qur'an.
Peace
----------------- Student of Allah -
I'll ignore the insults you made (I'll let a moderator deal with that part) ...
Fair enough.
Just make sure you point out your innocent and respectful reply first. Especially the part where you assume I wipe my butt.
and ask you to show your quranic evidence.
My Quranic evidence can be found in the free-minds' topic index.
Search for a Quranic Topic named 'Homosexuality'
You'll be directed to the following passages 415-16, 26165-166, 2755, 2928-29 -
Fair enough.
Just make sure they read your innocent reply first.Especially the part where you assume I wipe my butt.
I don't see how that's an insult. It was just a mundane example of a topic not covered within Quran that is normal human behaviour.
My quranic evidence can be found in the free-minds topic index (here).
Search for a topic named 'homosexuality'
You''ll be given the following passages 415-16, 26165-166, 2755, 2928-29415-16 contains no reference to homosexuality. I'm assuming you see evidence in the word fahisha being used. But fahisha is nowhere in Quran defined as including any sexual sin.
26165-166 "Do you approach the men among the worlds" is no reference to homosexual behaviour. The men among the worlds in the story of Lut are the angels visiting Lut. Are you saying the whole crowd men, women, the elderly were all trying to homosexually rape these angels? If so this only gives proof of your perverted mind and lack of rationality.
2755 "Approach the men with lust" again is no reference to homosexuality. The men are the angels visiting Lut. The word translated as lust has no occurrence in entire Quran of referring to sexual lust, in contrary. It's among other examples used for "attraction caused by fascination" as one who is drawn to magic. Approaching in this verse describes the movement of the crowd. There is no evidence of it implying to be a sexual approach. If you think about it, it cant be a sexual approach since it was an entire crowd. Men, women, children all being homosexual rapists? Right -)
2928-29 Committing immorality it says. Again the definition of fahisha in Quran has no evidence of including sexual immorality. You define homosexuality as immoral and you have made them synonyms but there is no evidence for it in Quran.Again, this shows you are injecting your own value system and feeling of what's moral into Quran and attributing your system to God.
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Let's be patient, brother hicham9.
We should be grateful that Allah protects us from supporting such an immorality. It is a blessing from Allah that I am not among people who support immoral lifestyle.
May Allah bless you and increase His guidance for you, brother. )
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This request is not rational. The reason being that nobody can provide specific verses in support of MOST things they encounter in life. For example, please give me the verse in support of using computers and the internet. You won't find such a verse. So, the RATIONAL rules of interpretation should be to not assume that something is ILLEGAL unless there is a LAW against it. In the same manner, if you cannot make a case AGAINST homosexuality based on the Qur'an, it automatically gets a green signal from Qur'an.
Sorry, but I don't like wasting time repeating myself!
Soccer is not in Quran.
Ducks aren't in Quran.
Internet isn't in Quran.Are you condemning those as well?
Nop! because instead of teaching us how to play man-made games (such as soccer), or how to use man-made things (such as a computer) or what not, Our Master teachs us to be authentic, guard our chastity by avoiding lewdness, AND EMBRACE THE (COMPATIBLE) MATES THAT WERE ASSIGNED TO US (in my case a female).
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If Quran would contain anything condemning homosexuality it would be contradicting the entire message we find in Quran. Does God promote social injustice, discrimination, oppression, persecution in Quran? No, God condemns such a thing in Quran. This should make you rethink your position hicham9, next to the total lack of Quranic evidence supporting your views. By your standards Vladimir Putin would be the perfect Muslim.
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hicham9, are you perhaps an ex-sunni?
because what you are doing is exactly the same thing as the sunni's expectation that God needs to give us instructions for everything. From how we should wash ourselves, how we should pray up to how one should experience their sexuality. They abuse this flawed argument to justify their belief in Quran-violating hadith.
To me you have all the traits of still not being freed of the sunni brainwashing. Which is a sad thing. I hope one day you will be able to transcend the indoctrinations that were forced onto you. Nowhere am I expecting anyone to support or say homosexuality is wonderful. Anyone can think what they want about it. You can still be averse to the concept while not falsely attributing this as a command by God.
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Let's be patient, brother hicham9.
We should be grateful that Allah protects us from supporting such an immorality. It is a blessing from Allah that I am not among people who support immoral lifestyle.
May Allah bless you and increase His guidance for you, brother. )
Thank you for the kind words, my sister.
Unlike these devils, you're an angel.
May G-D bless you for being authentic, wise, and loyal (to The Master of the worldlings).SLM
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Why don't you refrain from the insults for a brief moment and try to step into a logical an rational debate hicham9?
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Who knows? I am perhaps the "pope of Islam".
What is it that is not backed up with information from the text called Quran?
It is not productive? What does it yield except pleasure?
And anyone could become gay if not their thinking prevented them.
Some people seem to be born with wrong proportions of hormones and thus have a body that instinctively is attracted to the other sex, but that is natural, because the body was coming out that way and the person cannot help it. And concerning innate homosexuality in individuals not showing any bodily diversion is hard to tell, and I have not tried to read their minds.
But homosexual thoughts I consider that anyone could project given the circumstances.
Whatever the reason is, it is against the design, because the flesh is not anatomically designed for the activity.
It is quite a dull analogy you use with empty solar systems and galaxies. Since there is no life there then there was no guided evolution anyway.
But the male and female physical bodies are evolutionary developed for copulation. Male-male or female-female does not biologically produce anything.
Anything beyond is pleasure in their respective ways. It depends on if one finds it worth having homosexual copulation for pleasure.
The biggest crime if one in the history of Lot is that they force their victims to have sex.
And it would appear that it seems shameful that they prefer men over females since the crowd rejects Lot's daughters.
But unless further comprehensive shocks with the text it is unlikely that the people did engage in homosexual intercourse and that it is regarded as negative.
No matter embarrassing or not it is against the anatomical design of the physical bodies.
Salaam
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Sorry, but I don't like wasting time repeating myself!
Nop! because instead of teaching us how to play man-made games (such as soccer), or how to use man-made things (such as a computer) or what not, Our Master teachs us to be authentic, guard our chastity by avoiding lewdness, AND EMBRACE THE (COMPATIBLE) MATES THAT WERE ASSIGNED TO US (in my case a female).
And how do you know that "God" didn't put love between two homosexuals to assign them as mates?
I am not contesting if God gave you feelings for females. I am only asking how you know that just because God made you in a manner that you are heterosexual, everybody else has to be heterosexuals too?
Peace
------------------ Student of Allah
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Who knows? I am perhaps the "pope of Islam".
I've learned to react to your messiah complex with a smile whenever it shows its face
What is it that is not backed up with information from the text called Quran?
That homosexuality is not allowed/sinful/immoral.
It is not productive? What does it yield except pleasure?
Where does it state in Quran productiveness is a criterium to define whats moral and whats not? That's an economic model not the system in Quran. On top of this, you don't know if it's productive. Just like the many examples in this universe of failed galaxies, and the many examples in this world of extinct species and cultures - we can't tell if their existence is entirely unproductive. If there is one productive value in homosexuality existing as a natural phenomenon, it is confronting people such as yourself with their intolerance to anything that's different from themselves. Then you are questioning if we are allowed to enjoy things this world offers us? Quran is pretty clear we can enjoy/have pleasure as long as we respect Gods system. A heterosexual or homosexual who finds pleasure in sex without wanting kids is not committing any sin. There is nothing to backup the criteria you are applying here inside Quran.
And anyone could become gay if not their thinking prevented them.
Lol. I can't become gay even if I wanted to. Sexual preference is part of your identity. You can't just change such a thing. If you think your thinking is preventing you from becoming gay, maybe you are gay but surpressing it. This explains your homophobia to me. You are afraid you may be one yourself. The most extreme homophobics are as research points out surpressed homosexuals.
Some people seem to be born with wrong proportions of hormones and thus have a body that instinctively is attracted to the other sex, but that is natural, because the body was coming out that way and the person cannot help it. And concerning innate homosexuality in individuals not showing any bodily diversion is hard to tell, and I have not tried to read their minds.
Your total ignorance on the topic of sexual identity is showing.
But homosexual thoughts I consider that anyone could project given the circumstances.
So ignorant. Homosexuality is not a thought its a sexual identity. Maybe you wanted to say "homo-erotic" thoughts. That's something else.
Whatever the reason is, it is against the design, because the flesh is not anatomically designed for the activity.
Proven wrong by reality. Many homosexuals are perfectly capable of having sex. There is no anatomical design preventing it.
It is quite a dull analogy you use with empty solar systems and galaxies. Since there is no life there then there was no guided evolution anyway.
Entire evolution is guided by God or nothing of it is. There is no middle ground. Those collapsed and collapsing galaxies are created by God and have their function. We just don't understand the reasons for it. Just like you don't understand homosexuality. The analogy may be dull but it's spot on.
But the male and female physical bodies are evolutionary developed for copulation. Male-male or female-female does not biologically produce anything.
If you think the value of life is to reproduce you are contradicting Quran. We dont live for wordly reasons. We are preparing for the afterlife. It seems the book you judge by is Evolution of species by Darwin and books about economic models instead of Quran. You only speak bout worldy productivity. Next to this you sound like one of those midieval people who think every sperm is sacred and we are all forced to reproduce. Many people don't reproduce, for different reasons it says nothing about them being truthful/loyal to Gods system whatsoever.
The biggest crime if one in the history of Lot is that they force their victims to have sex.
Sex is nowhere mentioned in the story of Lut. Can't you read?
And it would appear that it seems shameful that they prefer men over females since the crowd rejects Lot's daughters.
They rejected Lots peace offer that doesnt imply they wanted to have sex with the angels visiting Lot. You have a sick mind if you think that story is about sex at all. My god!
But unless further comprehensive shocks with the text it is unlikely that the people did engage in homosexual intercourse and that it is regarded as negative.
Where on earth do you get the idea sex is even mentioned in the story of Lut? You seem brainwashed by hadith and tradition.
No matter embarrassing or not it is against the anatomical design of the physical bodies.
You may find it embarassing, anatomically it's perfectly possible to have anal sex. Also by heterosexuals btw. You are so narrow minded you think anal sex is exclusive to homosexuals. Truth is both among heterosexuals and homosexuals this is practiced. Studies point out among homosexuals couples the majority never has anal sex.
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@MoF your criteria of "being productive" is so failed and you are totally blind for it. If those criteria were valid, overpopulation of this earth is a good thing? Starvation is a good thing? Birth control is a major sin? Yeah, you are starting to sound like the pope - but alas not one of Islam, your place is in the vatican.
Of course this isn't one of Gods criteria. Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon and productive by your standards in the sense that it prevents overpopulation.
When I converted to Islam, I was so naive to think I would not face this kind of failed catholic ideas on reproduction and sexual morality ever again. I'm no longer that na?ve person, ignorance has no religion, no race, no gender.
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Runninglikezebras
Yet you cannot speak against the basic logic. It is not productive with homosexual copulation. It is not designed that way. It is not coherent.
Overpopulation is when people get children from right to left irresponsibly and the community cannot accommodate them. It is a weak argument to use countering the anatomical design of humans.
Innate homosexuality in some people due to biological reasons is rather a birth defect. Like any other handicap it has to be respected because it cannot be helped.
There are also animals showing homosexual tendencies in some species. Environmental effects can cause adverse development in the fetus phase so that the brain malfunctions. The same could happen in humans.
Then there are also people indulging in homosexual acts as plain pleasure without being simply homosexual but they enjoy bisexual relations. It rings a bell somewhere about that it is a cognitive abnormality that causes many people to be involved in same-sex relations. It is a trend in Western countries beyond doubt.
Salaam
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Yet you cannot speak against the basic logic. It is not productive with homosexual copulation. It is not designed that way. It is not coherent.
You ignored all my arguments why reproduction is not a valid criteria for morality within Islam. Nowhere in Quran does God say we can only have sex only to reproduce. It's a medieval idea, only still shared by the pedophiles ruling the Vatican and you apparently.
Overpopulation is when people get children from right to left irresponsibly and the community cannot accommodate them. It is a weak argument to use countering the anatomical design of humans.
Wrong it's a direct consequence of applying criteria like you stated above. People had to reproduce for the church for communism or whatever. The anatomical design of humans allows homosexuality perfectly well. It has allowed it for entire human history.
Innate homosexuality in some people due to biological reasons is rather a birth defect. Like any other handicap it has to be respected because it cannot be helped. There are also animals showing homosexual tendencies in some species. Environmental effects can cause adverse development in the fetus phase so that the brain malfunctions. The same could happen in humans.
Unscientific bullshit.
Then there are also people indulging in homosexual acts as plain pleasure without being simply homosexual but they enjoy bisexual relations. It rings a bell somewhere about that it is a cognitive abnormality that causes many people to be involved in same-sex relations. It is a trend in Western countries beyond doubt.
I'm not surprised at all an extreme homophobic person such as yourself also discriminates bi-sexual people and even denies them their identity.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Runninglikezebras
Yet you cannot speak against the basic logic. It is not productive with homosexual copulation. It is not designed that way. It is not coherent.
Overpopulation is when people get children from right to left irresponsibly and the community cannot accommodate them. It is a weak argument to use countering the anatomical design of humans.
Innate homosexuality in some people due to biological reasons is rather a birth defect. Like any other handicap it has to be respected because it cannot be helped.
There are also animals showing homosexual tendencies in some species. Environmental effects can cause adverse development in the fetus phase so that the brain malfunctions. The same could happen in humans.
Then there are also people indulging in homosexual acts as plain pleasure without being simply homosexual but they enjoy bisexual relations. It rings a bell somewhere about that it is a cognitive abnormality that causes many people to be involved in same-sex relations. It is a trend in Western countries beyond doubt.
Salaam
I am totally lost. Which side are you on? Are you saying that homosexuality is sinful?
You are suggesting that basic logic implies that Qur'an forbids sexual relationships that do not bring forth children. According to that logic, it should be sinful for impotent heterosexual couples to have sex too. Not to mention that all sexual activities between an impotent heterosexual couple becomes sinful as well. That is one giant claim that requires you to drop some verses and explain how the Qur'an warrants that.
Arguments based on "what is naturally occurring" are inherently week. For example, God didn't give you wings. Does this mean that you flying via unnatural means(example airplane/jet pack) is automatically sinful? It's a VERY WEAK line of reasoning.
Your assumptions about WHY we observe homosexuality in the animal kingdom are totally unfounded. They are not contingent on environmental disasters of any kind. For the sake of simplicity, you may assume that in any given population, 10% will turn out to be homosexuals irrespective of the environment.
Homosexuality and bisexuality does not have anything to do with WESTERN CULTURE. It is prevalent all across animal kingdom including human societies. It just happens that in the west, due to establishment of human rights, these people can dare come out of the closet at higher rates than elsewhere. On top of that, I have no idea what is sooooooooo wrong in having sexual intercourse purely for pleasure whether it be homosexual or heterosexual. What problem do you have with that? How does that become a mental disorder? or do you just label any behavior that makes you feel uncomfortable as "mental disorder"?
------------ Student of Allah