Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Talk about the desperation of understanding your man-made holier-than-thou-book in Allahs name that has caused an atomic flare in the entire world in destitute, disputes, chaos, disharmony, wars, lies, jealousies, deceptions, power, and multitude of divisions, you name it, and the history seems to be repeating itself with Quran Aloners at an advanced phase in case you seem to be missing out on this one..the level of witticism at its peak.
You really don't understand global politics do you?
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This is a very unhealthy and uncivilized way of behavior. What it only lends credence to is the incorrigible nature of human beings. The great ?prophets/messengers? came and did their utmost to elevate us in terms of character, morality and spiritual values, to do good to others, to open our minds and to show compassion and tolerance, NOT BY BOOKS but by the ESSENSE OF NATURE. Well, they all were mortal and passed away, and what do we see after them..? The same blessed unfortunate bunch, divided amongst themselves, bickering over practices, traditions, rights and power!
So the book we have that claims to be from God is basically not from God. Alrighty.
That a layman's appoach without substantiating from how and where the book itself got derived from to begin with. The rest of your rebuttle is simply vented out and back-knifed and I am not going to play your silly game.
Here, once again, in case you fogot to take this into account
Quran is foremost a hand-written/printed man-made book and that too a historical one passed over generations in its unoriginal format. There is absolutely no doubt about that and the entire earth stands witness. And many such books have come and gone. So treat it as such and the only possible way to understand it is with open-mindedness, objectivity, scientific and logical relevancy in order to critically analyze the subject without buffering and buttering up Allah and mocking HIM in vain, which the alleged Muslims including Quran Aloners are quite skilled at.
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Talk about the desperation of understanding your man-made holier-than-thou-book in Allah?s name that has caused an atomic flare in the entire world in destitute, disputes, chaos, disharmony, wars, lies, jealousies, deceptions, power, and multitude of divisions, you name it, and the history seems to be repeating itself with ?Quran Aloners? at an advanced phase in case you seem to be missing out on this one?..the level of witticism at its peak.
You really don't understand global politics do you?
Do you?? Please explain in terms of my statement above.
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Peace Enquirer
to be frank you have no idea about me,
I have a pretty clear view of your dabbling ways Enquirer.
so you are just making vague assumptions,
You prove against yourself that you are ignorant of the different theologies you claim to study. You assumed that Buddhism was a good practice and knew nothing of the basis of Buddhism. All you had with you were quotes by Buddhists.
and as for harmful behaviour...,where?...
In your uninformed conclusions as I shall point out in answer to another statement of your's below.
And whats harmful about pointing out inconsistencies in the 'literal' interpretations...or do you believe sticks turn into snakes,or hands should be chopped of nowadays.?..(careful with 17;36 .)
You are accusing people of being too literal according to your very own idea about what being literal is. One can think by analogy and obtain literal results. When I step into the world of the reading I take it literally from a symbolic point of view. I do not assume that sticks used to turn into snakes nor that hands were asked to be chopped off.
You must see that you are only becoming a caricature of Kyle, taking his stand, but not understanding that position. You agree with him, and have no knowledge of the means to his conclusions. You are superficial.
Joe
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Here, once again, in case you fogot to take this into account
Quran is foremost a hand-written/printed man-made book and that too a historical one passed over generations in its unoriginal format. There is absolutely no doubt about that and the entire earth stands witness. And many such books have come and gone. So treat it as such and the only possible way to understand it is with open-mindedness, objectivity, scientific and logical relevancy in order to critically analyze the subject without buffering and buttering up Allah and mocking HIM in vain, which the alleged Muslims including Quran Aloners are quite skilled at.
Lol, flamebait posed as argument?
Anyway, the authenticity of the Quran (regards to its preservation) is a well known historical fact.
Do you?? Please explain in terms of my statement above.
One word socioeconomics.
By the way, your comment about the "jealousy" of the Islamic nations made me laugh yes, people hate "freedom and justice" because they really want to have them. Seriously though, save this kind of trolling for idiots.
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That a layman's appoach without substantiating from how and where the book itself got derived from to begin with.
So you have substantiated it for yourself and everyone else, hence your claim of 'there is absolutely no doubt and the entire earth stands witness'.The rest of your rebuttle is simply vented out and back-knifed and I am not going to play your silly game.
Indeed. It's a game is it, depending on perspective one sees what they want.
Here, once again, in case you fogot to take this into account and the only possible way to understand it is with open-mindedness, objectivity, scientific and logical relevancy in order to critically analyze the subject without buffering and buttering up Allah and mocking HIM in vain,
And of course then it will become clear that it is man-made. Thank you.
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Lol, flamebait posed as argument?
Lol, typical. Global politics starts with an niche abuse (flamebait)?
Anyway, the authenticity of the Quran (regards to its preservation) is a well known historical fact.
Perhaps your socioeconomics or rather religious politics can explain that?
Do you?? Please explain in terms of my statement above.
One word socioeconomics.
Great explanation??? LOL!!!
By the way, your comment about the "jealousy" of the Islamic nations made me laugh yes, people hate "freedom and justice" because they really want to be them.
Good for you, keep laughing! It will give an added boost to socioeconomics.
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Lol, typical. Global politics starts with an niche abuse (flamebait)?
"a niche". "An" is used only if the word begins with a vowel (rare exceptions in the case of "u".
And typical of what? I don't think you know what my "beliefs" are for you to call me "typical". Following the same tactics, I can call you a typical idiotic atheist.
Perhaps your socioeconomics or rather religious politics can explain that?
Wait, so you don't believe in historical analysis?
Great explanation??? LOL!!!
You expect me to explain global political issues to someone who thinks the Islamic world is jealous of the freedom of the west? Please. I didn't reply to you intending to correct your ways or engage in a debate with you, I replied to you because I thought your idiocy was funny.
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Lol, typical. Global politics starts with an niche abuse (flamebait)?
"a niche". "An" is used only if the word begins with a vowel (rare exceptions in the case of "u".
And typical of what? I don't think you know what my "beliefs" are for me to call me "typical". Following the same tactics, I can call you a typical idiotic atheist.
Perhaps your socioeconomics or rather religious politics can explain that?
Wait, so you don't believe in historical analysis?
Great explanation??? LOL!!!
You expect me to explain global political issues to someone who thinks the Islamic world is jealous of the freedom of the west? Please. I didn't reply to you intending to correct your ways or engage in a debate with you, I replied to you because I thought your idiocy was funny.
Flamebait, idiotic atheist.....keep adding and it will prove my point....err....perhaps your 'global politics'.
"Islamic world is jealous of freedom of west"; hmmm..now that's a newbie.
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Lol, typical. Global politics starts with an niche abuse (flamebait)?
"a niche". "An" is used only if the word begins with a vowel (rare exceptions in the case of "u".
And typical of what? I don't think you know what my "beliefs" are for me to call me "typical". Following the same tactics, I can call you a typical idiotic atheist.
Perhaps your socioeconomics or rather religious politics can explain that?
Wait, so you don't believe in historical analysis?
Great explanation??? LOL!!!
You expect me to explain global political issues to someone who thinks the Islamic world is jealous of the freedom of the west? Please. I didn't reply to you intending to correct your ways or engage in a debate with you, I replied to you because I thought your idiocy was funny.
Flamebait, idiotic atheist.....keep adding and it will prove my point....err....perhaps your 'global politics'.
"Islamic world is jealous of freedom of west"; hmmm..now that's a newbie.
You're trying to prove a point against someone who's just having a few laughs at the expense of your 'intelligence'? Excellent.
So anyway, tell me why you don't believe in historical analysis.
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I just went through this entire thread and am glad to read some great stuff from your end, begging for sincere answers rather than twists and twinky doodles.
Salam Danish
It is strange that you support someone denies the Quran totally and wants to spread his unfounded crap while others who are Quran believers and knowledgeable with it like Mquran and Laila been condemned by you, this says it all indeed, simply you are a Quran rejector like him, the likes of you is another proof that the Quran is the words of Allah, because it clearly told us that we will meet the likes of you and it even told us why the likes of you will be deaf, dumb, and blind, thanks to the veil, now, enq has nothing to say, he does not even put an effort to debate the ones who put an effort to reply to his non sense, he is very novice, but for me you are not, so let me see what you have to say against the Quran
Am surprised that your post above carrying much grounds to your topic seems to have tossed out, unnoticed. Anyhow, here's one for the road and several more to come as we travel along
Sure, let?s go on a trip, but I hope non of us is tripping though
415
Khalifa
Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.
Yusuf Ali
If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.
Pickthal
As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).415 is talking about ?Lesbians?, this is clear from 416, so the 4 witnesses above is not about a woman cheating with another man, rather, women who likes to sleep with women, and in this case 4 witnesses sounds more possible, as well the punishment to imprison them in the houses is sort of confirming that because if we let them go then they will sleep with each other again and if we put them in jail, the jail will be their paradise, that is the most realistic explanation to the above verse.
- Who knows, in this case, the adulteresses may live longer than others until old age catches them in confinement. But hang on, lets see what happens to them next.
Do you mean a lesbian?
- Four witnesses needed for lewdness of adulteress. What happens when witnesses fall short of four (3 or 2 or 1)?
If you are talking about a lesbian and there is no 4 witnesses then the charges must be dropped
- What is the punishment for men (adulterer) in this case? Perhaps the answer is given elsewhere in a twisted fashion (see below).
The twisting is coming from you and others who can?t understand the Arabic Quran, there is no men involved in lesbian relationships
242
Khalifa
The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.
Yusuf Ali
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Pickthal
The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.But this is another crime, 242 is talking about those who sleeps with others outside the wedlock, come one man, please don?t compare Apples with Mangos, 415 is talking about Lesbians, 416 is talking about Homos and 242 is talking about adultery (sleeping with others outside the wedlock)
- Isn?t the punishment for adulteresses (women) in 415 to confine them at homes until death do them away OR is it 100 lashes as per 242?
Wrong answer, 415 is talking about Lesbians, 416 is talking about Homos, and 242 is talking about those who like to have sex outside the wedlock
- Giving 100 lashes as per 242 may very likely not save their lives of either of them, but saves the adulteress?s life from getting beaten up in public as per 415?
Man, stop comparing Apples with Mangos please, how about you eat them?
- The demonstration of punishment prescribed in 242 will surely inflict bodily injury, mental deprivation and societal/family trauma but rather hushed out in 415, Why?
Comparing Apples with Mangos again?, come on man, eat them please, the Mangos is more sweater than the Apples if it is Indian Mangos though.
- How many witnesses are needed on this case?
In which case, the Zani and Zania?
Well, the verse never mentioned it, therefore it will apply as long as the charges has been proven by even one witness and possibly without witnesses at all like a photo
425
Khalifa
Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women. GOD knows best about your belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. You shall obtain permission from their guardians before you marry them, and pay them their due dowry equitably. They shall maintain moral behavior, by not committing adultery, or having secret lovers. Once they are freed through marriage, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half of that for the free women. Marrying a slave shall be a last resort for those unable to wait. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Yusuf Ali
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And God hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthal
And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another; so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness, they being honest, not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they are honourably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.Btw, the above is not an easy verse anyway, and I?m sure you didn?t understand it as many Muslims do, but let?s see
- Now the adulteress?s punishment is halved because she is married. Okayyy. But halved as per 415 or 242 or what?
Here we go, you didn?t understand the verse, yes the punishment is halved BUT NOT because she is married as you are suggesting rather because her status WAS ?Ma Malakatu Aymanikum? before marriage
- What about the married adulterer?s punishement?
Ma Malakatu Aymanikum only includes women as far as I believe
- How many witnesses are needed to this case?
At least 4 for lesbianism
And at least the crime is proven for adultery3330
Khalifa
O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits a gross sin, the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for GOD to do.
Yusuf Ali
O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for God.
Pickthal
O ye wives of the Prophet! Whosoever of you committeth manifest lewdness, the punishment for her will be doubled, and that is easy for Allah.Orignal Arabic Text
(30)
The verse above is clear, it is talking about punishment by Allah ?NOT BY HUMANS? this is clear from the words , ?Wa Kana Zalika Ala Allah Yasira?, i.e. ?, and that is easy for Allah?
This is a tough one.
Oh thanks, I like tough ones, but would that mean you are aware that the previous ones by you were child play?
- In this case the punishment for adulteress is doubled, but by which standards/rule. Is it doubled as per 415 or 242 or 425?
Now you are comparing Mangos with Avocado, please understand bro 3330 is talking about the punishment that will be incurred by Allah to the wifes of the prophet if they commit Fahisha (lesbianism, adultry, etc etc?)
- Who and how many witnesses shall we bring to this scenario, knowing that a prophet?s wife is being exposed of adultery?
If you are talking the human punishment then the same I said before apply
At least 4 for lesbianism
And at least the crime is proven for adulteryBut Allah punishment is something else and Allah does not need witnesses and 3330 was talking about Allah punishment not the human punishment that should be enforced by Allah laws on earth
- Imagine what painful emotions and disgrace this would bring to the community, prophet?s own family members and followers and to top it up, his preachings?
What the hell was that if you don?t mind?, are you talking when we see the double punishment to them in the JD?
- Would the punishment be same (whatever that is) for prophet?s divorcees?
You mean if their status has changed?
NO because the moment they married the prophet they became the mothers of all believers and are not allowed to marry after him, all these conditions was told to them before marrying so they had the freewill to accept it or not
If the commit an Fahisha then the same Quran laws apply but they will also have double punishment by Allah in the Judgment Day
Not only are these verses in total contradiction, but inconsistent and incoherent.
It is your statements about the Quran that I found lacking knowledge/merit, in total contradiction, inconsistent and incoherent
Finally, what?s the prescription for gays and lisbians retribution?
415 and 416
Are there any standards inherited on them? Are any standards described above valid, witnessed and declared/honored today, other than a few shreds of jahiliah seen once in a blue moon, withering away.
415 and 416
That was really tough, I?m sweating very bad, mister Danish, you have to understand that my job is only to insert doubts in what you say about the Quran and if doubts are successfully inserted then your so called clear cut contradictions can?t be admissible and MUST be thrown in the rubbish bin, you should go back now and eat some Mangos (Indian Mangos though)
brother Agent, i just remembered that you are indian, please donlt take offencd as there Indian mangos in egypt and is one of the most delcious and expensive ones and i love it, in fact i can't find this mangos in australia and once i went to Dubbai and straight went and bought indian mangos there, you are one lucky indian, i love mangos bro
Many Slam Dunks
Cheers
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You're trying to prove a point against someone who's just having a few laughs at the expense of your 'intelligence'? Excellent.
And I keep repeating myself....good for you, as I'm laughing along with you.
So anyway, tell me why you don't believe in historical analysis.
And where did you get that from that I don't believe in historical analaysis. Besides, it will only expose the hand-written man-made book coming out of thin air. Now that's a good laugh.
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Ahmed, if you care to rebuttle my last post addressed to you in reference to agentxxx's concerns, then we can move on to your recent lengthy one presented mischievieously at best. One at a time. No need to drum beat, jump the ladder and get carried away with flowery slam dunks.
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I don't think I've seen a topic get so many posts on a saturday! Keep em coming guys, really, I'm having quite a time reading them.
Here's some interesting clips...
Who's against quran? I'm against the literal harmful interpretations. But it's an excellent read. Even though it has contradictions across the board. Which might not really be contradictions, just bad harmful literal interpretations. It has created chaos in the world. I'm not saying dont read it. Better to learn from more than one source. There's many scriptures you can learn from. You're trusting your future in a book? The problem is it's hard to understand, and it says it's clear!.. and it's in arabic. And why are you being defensive and emotional!!popcorn emoticon here
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As a side note to Ahmed, if people start discussing and rebutting in the manner so pugnacious, outwitting and deficient as yours, they might as well believe in myths, magics and mimes mercilessly.
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Thanks Ahmed, I got your point.
No worries Danish
You see, the issue is not the time and place in which the two aforementioned verses speak about; it is the congruency and tangency of PUNISHMENT justified in inconsistent and incoherent manner
not really because every crime has its own punishment as well clauses regarding excpetions and/or further elabortaion by others who understand the laws, like judges and the human laws exactly
, especially when allegedly elevated to an unimaginable source of a higher merciful authority.
would that mean you are denying God's existance as well?
In other words, the punishment given in one verse is irreflective/doesn't relate to the punishment given in another verse for the same or worse cause.
you need to elaborate with examples, i responded to your other long thread at page 8 or 9 as i'm still reaidng the pages
Did you get my point without me going into detail or need further explanation?
not really, you need to provide examples accompanied withyour elaboration, but please find new examples as the examples you posted before were slam dunked
cheers
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Ahmed, if you care to rebuttle my last post addressed to you in reference to agentxxx's concerns, then we can move on to your recent lengthy one presented mischievieously at best. One at a time. No need to drum beat, jump the ladder and get carried away with flowery slam dunks.
I think I did but it seems you need to elaborate on it but with new examples please
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And where did you get that from that I don't believe in historical analaysis. Besides, it will only expose the hand-written man-made book coming out of thin air. Now that's a good laugh.
When I mentioned that the Qur'an has indeed been preserved 'perfectly' and that this face is corroborated by historical analysis you scoffed at it - I'm just wondering why, since I don't really think you know much about the Qur'an and are talking out of your arse.
But hey, keep dodging the question if that's what lets you get away with tricking yourself into thinking your posts are anything but flamebait.
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As a side note to Ahmed, if people start discussing and rebutting in the manner so pugnacious, outwitting and deficient as yours, they might as well believe in myths, magics and mimes mercilessly.
Good, i think this is what they need to do
also mate can you please talk to me in more simpler english, I concede that you are an excellent english speaker, but can you please let go of his habit of posting whichever words you learnt in the thesauraus on a particular day that have nothing to do with what you are 'trying' to say. And that cheating at crossword puzzles is not very nice.
Thanks