Marrying someone of the same sex?
-
Peace
Salaam all
I think that people of Lut were destroyed, not simply for gay marriage or practice, but for all sexual practices also (women were also involved) which they performed publicly and even by force (rape), and seemed to have nothing occupying them but lust in all its forms. If you read the verses carefully, you will understand that they came after Lut's guests, and that Lut was afraid of them. They were more of perverts.
Ive always thought of it as that as well.
Does the Quran specifically state that the messengers were indeed angels? I know that it refers to them as messengers when they talk to Abraham, but does it ever mention them as "malaikah"? The Bible apparently does, but what of Quran?
What are your thoughts on sex between two men? Females arent mentioned at all in Quran, although some may state that it meant for all mankind be it male or not. Is it ok so long there is love between the two males/females?
Peace
-
People of Prophet Lut were destroyed because of gay marriages. They even tried to rape Lut's guests (da messengers) but Prophet Lut presented them his daughters so that they can marry them. You should not marry to same sex. That's haram! May God give some wisdom to all of us.
Salam,
How about marrying a hermaphrodite? What do you consider that person to be? Male or female? Or does that choice lay in his/her hands? Doesn't our mind/soul finally makes that decision of what we can become in this life?
Haram? Recheck please!
peace
-
Salaam afridi220, Latifah and all
The quraan says Our messengers...not "angels". But since they came with a message from God, were not known to Lut nor to Ibrahim (whom they visited earlier and gave him the good news of having a baby against all odds) and also promised the destruction of the people of Lut and gave him instructions as to what to do exactly and he followed them, my brain processes "ANGELS"". They were not ordinary men (Ibrahim noticed that when he noticed that they did not eat).
Verse 415 is understood to be about lesbians (although personally I have my own concerns, because of the different, even harsher, punishment compared to verse 16 which is understood as concerning gay men). I understand that there are
two kinds of sex within marriage and outside marriage
two kinds of sex outside marriage private and public (zena)
two kinds of marriage marriage with sexual practice and marriage without (milkul yameen). Marriage to a Hermaphrodite falls within this marriage. -
Peace
The quraan says Our messengers...not "angels". But since they came with a message from God, were not known to Lut nor to Ibrahim (whom they visited earlier and gave him the good news of having a baby against all odds) and also promised the destruction of the people of Lut and gave him instructions as to what to do exactly and he followed them, my brain processes "ANGELS"". They were not ordinary men (Ibrahim noticed that when he noticed that they did not eat).
If thats the case, then is it "ok" to interpret them as Angels? I know that there are sunnis that wont even say that Gabriel is The Spirit due to the fact that it doesnt state that he is The Spirit, even though in same cases in different suras it uses Gabriel in one and The Spirit in another. They state that since its not stated specifically that they dont use it as a fact. Just wondering which is the right way to go about it. I think since it says Messengers but never mentions them as Angels then it doesnt mean they angels, but at the same time the possibility of them being one isn't any less.
Also, if they didnt eat, maybe they were fasting or were one of those types of "holy men" (dont want to use that word but thats what came to mind).
Peace
-
Angel
As far as I am aware there is no prohibition on marrying a transsexual (or an intersex for that matter).
I shall retain this view unless someone quotes from the quran to provide evidence that it is forbidden.
peace
There is no Ayat in Quran which prohibits us to drink Urine? or is there any?
And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.
If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful
"You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people."
"You are approaching the men out of lust instead of the women! No, you are an ignorant people!"
Are these verses from Quran enough dear ANGEL?
Which Ayat in Quran tells us that LUT offered his daughters for rape?
-
Salam amuslim
As I understand from the qur'aan, Gabriel is not an angel, but the holy spirit, the mighty in strength and other descriptions of him. I do not know what the sunnis think (and do not bother).
I do not know the definition of an angel, but since they are good men (messengers from God), aliens (not known by both people), have extra ordinary powers and they don't eat ;D
(no materialistic desires)then they are angels to me.Also, if they didn't eat, maybe they were fasting or were one of those types of "holy men" (don't want to use that word but thats what came to mind).
1169 And our messengers came to Ibrahim with glad tidings. They said Peace. He answered Peace; and soon he brought them a roasted calf.
11.70 When he saw their hands not reaching to it, he found that abnormal and felt uneasy. They said Fear not, we have been sent to the people of Lut.So, if they were fasting or were holy men, why would he feel uncomfortable? And why wouldn't they simply say Thank you, we are fasting...Leave it until after sunset!! (maybe it was already after sunset  ., instead of Fear not. Actually their response was like (Fear not. The fact that we do not eat, is because we are no ordinary people/men We are are being sent to Lut's people, by God)
-
Salaam
Salam amuslim
As I understand from the qur'aan, Gabriel is not an angel, but the holy spirit, the mighty in strength and other descriptions of him. I do not know what the sunnis think (and do not bother).
I do not know the definition of an angel, but since they are good men (messengers from God), aliens (not known by both people), have extra ordinary powers and they don't eat ;D
(no materialistic desires)then they are angels to me.1169 And our messengers came to Ibrahim with glad tidings. They said Peace. He answered Peace; and soon he brought them a roasted calf.
11.70 When he saw their hands not reaching to it, he found that abnormal and felt uneasy. They said Fear not, we have been sent to the people of Lut.So, if they were fasting or were holy men, why would he feel uncomfortable? And why wouldn't they simply say Thank you, we are fasting...Leave it until after sunset!! (maybe it was already after sunset )., instead of Fear not. Actually their response was like (Fear not. The fact that we do not eat, is because we are no ordinary people/men We are are being sent to Lut's people, by God)
There goes another example of making Gabriel an angel, hehe, you just caught me with that. Preconceived notions. Also, what exactly is the Holy Spirit? Is it above the angels? Also, is the Holy Spirit the same as The Spirit? If memory serves me correctly, Jesus was blessed with the Holy Spirit, however the one that visited Maryam was The Spirit/Gabriel.
Back to the messengers point, you state that the translation means ordinary people/men and like I mentioned, they could have been angels. My point was, is it ok to postulate that they are angels when its not even mentioned? Just want to know how strict we need to be when interpreting the Quran.
Peace
-
Salam amuslim
If you have another definition for those messengers, use it, or just say messengers from God in the form of humans . They could be jin people rarely seen by others (one of its meanings). I just say mala'ika/angels because I have no other name for them. So as long as the name conveys how you understand them, i do not think there is a problem. The qur'aan calls them messengers, yet it puts it in a way to make us understand that they were not like other messengers because their message is different and they are different. -
Who was an ousider?
If the qur'aan allude to them as "people of Lut", and he was their messenger, so he is kind of a head figure. And yes, they did not obey him and that was why they were destroyed.
As for his fear of them, who wouldn't fear a gang rape?! Or a criminal gang at best?What if I alluded to "the people of Muhammad" or better, "the people of Jesus"? Does that actually make them the leader? If I called everyone who lived in the UK "the people of Samia", does that make Your Majesty our Queen?
-
In recent history (as far as we know), were/are there any homosexual communities destroyed, either partially or wholly, by supernatural catastrophic phenomenon (by God)? Today, there are abundance of such societies infiltrated amongst us and as well as their own built up secluded corners along with "human rights" but not a word from the almighty. hmm
In recent history, are there any wholly homosexual communities as per the people of Lot?
Where do you see "supernatural catastrophic phenomenon" anyway, in the Quran?
Oh, America does tend to get hit by an aweful lot of natural disasters...
-
if i invite someone for coffee and they cannot stay because they have business to take care of it does not make them an "angel".
Salaam all
Those angels were sent with message that is why god call them messangers, (
some time back pigeons were also called messangers)
Peace
-
What if I alluded to "the people of Muhammad" or better, "the people of Jesus"? Does that actually make them the leader? If I called everyone who lived in the UK "the people of Samia", does that make Your Majesty our Queen?
The three examples are not the same people of muhammad= muhammad is their leader; people of jesus =jesus is the leader.
You only got the third right bravo Otherwise, why would you call everyone in the UK "the people of Samia"? Not because I am their mother, I hope voodoo
-
Salaam Samia,
If Lut was not asking about his own daughters then why did people of Lut said
1179
Yusuf Ali
They said "Well dost thou know we have no need of thy daughters indeed thou knowest quite well what we want!"
Pickthal
They said Well thou knowest that we have no right to thy daughters, and well thou knowest what we want.
Shakir
They said Certainly you know that we have no claim on your daughters, and most surely you know what we desire.Do you think saying ur daughters is their sarcastic statement?
Abraham's guests
When u have unknown guests at ur home and you offer them food which they refuse to accept obviously you would think they don't have good intention and not your friends because thats rude and unusual. That is why Abraham feel discomfart and messengers said fear not we are sent for a mission (don't have time to waste). -
Angel
There is no Ayat in Quran which prohibits us to drink Urine? or is there any?
there is no verse prohibiting that because it can be used as an effective medicine for certain conditions.
And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.
If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful
"You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people."
"You are approaching the men out of lust instead of the women! No, you are an ignorant people!"
Are these verses from Quran enough dear ANGEL?
no my friend they are not enough.
A transsexual has had a sex change, they are not the same gender.
BTW why did Allah bother creating Intersex humans? since he created them then he should tell us in the quran that no one can marry them? afterall it is fully detailed.
peace.
-
A transsexual has had a sex change, they are not the same gender.
BTW why did Allah bother creating Intersex humans? since he created them then he should tell us in the quran that no one can marry them? afterall it is fully detailed.
peace.
Actually, transexuals will be the original gender regardless of modification. No amount of exterior modification will change the way that hormones affect people's development, right down to the fingertips (expression).
As for intersex humans, do you mean hermaphrodites? Presumably the dominant gender...
-
Actually, transexuals will be the original gender regardless of modification. No amount of exterior modification will change the way that hormones affect people's development, right down to the fingertips (expression).
As for intersex humans, do you mean hermaphrodites? Presumably the dominant gender...
Trans-sexuals have an image about themselves that's different from what their body tells. It's not all about hormones, but genes have a share in that. One of the theories is that Ch. Y carries a tiny part responsible for the male image. Sometimes during the cross-over (first division of the gamet), this tiny bit is broken and lost. The person still has the Y ch and looks masculine, but their image of themselves is feminine. It's useless, and very cruel, to force them to stay masculine.
As for hermaphrodite, how do you know the dominant sex if they are 50/50? Usually the decision to settle upon a sex and not the other is delayed until the person knows their image about themselves, then the appropriate hormones are applied .
These matters are very complicated and should not be regarded as pervert desires. Science is still in its first steps to understand why and how. Many commit suicide because no one understands, or imagine their dilemma
-
How common are they in history (transexuals and hermaphrodites)? I mean actual humans, not symbology/mythology.
-
How common are they in history (transexuals and hermaphrodites)? I mean actual humans, not symbology/mythology.
More than you think. You have to be in the medical or psychiatric profession to know how many there are. Last year I was chatting with a Sudanese doctor and she told me she was shocked to know how many anomalies related to sex/gender were there (in the sudan) that she changed her specialization (community medicine/sexuality)to try to help them as there are few specialists out there for them.
-
It's not the most reliable source in the world but wikipedia tells us 'About 1 in every 150,000-250,000 human births is a hermaphrodite'.
In addition to that 'In many cases, humans who are born as hermaphordites later have surgery in order to remove either the male or female organs so as to be classified as either a female or male. This can help them avoid social or societal stigmatisms that are often associated with hermaphrodites. However, this may cause problems as most of the time such corrective surgery is performed when the person is a infant. It is possible the wrong set of organs will be removed as it will not yet be clear which set is "right" and which set is "wrong" according to their true gender. In addition the person may never feel truly male or female, even after having surgery.'
Sounds like a rough situation. So I guess the question is, are you what you feel like most inside (in the head, instincts), or what actually remains after the surgical procedure removes one of the organs? If you made the decision yourself it would be easier, but since they're more often done as infants I guess it must be the worst thing for such individuals who later realise it's the 'wrong' gender for them.