Marrying someone of the same sex?
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BTW why did Allah bother creating Intersex humans? since he created them then he should tell us in the quran that no one can marry them? afterall it is fully detailed.
Excellent question, Angel. There is no answer from "godly" perspectives simply because "holy books" and "religions" are human inventions/innovations as percieved by both natural and unatural courses as dictated by time, location and nature via their very figment of imaginations.Quran is neither fully detailed nor clear on several issues, the only reason why EVERYONE has problems understanding it and from non-evidential historical point of view. The reasons are obvious. No offense, just factual data.
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BTW why did Allah bother creating Intersex humans? since he created them then he should tell us in the quran that no one can marry them? afterall it is fully detailed.
peace.
Why should He tell us we should not marry them? Does God tell anyone not to get married? Does He tell them not to get married? They can and we can marry them.
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Why should He tell us we should not marry them?
Your this very question defeats the purpose of the Quran in which you believe to be the word of God, especially when you come that strongly by saying "why should HE tell us".Does God tell anyone not to get married? Does He tell them not to get married? They can and we can marry them.
No where does the Quran talk about transexuals and hermaphrodites. The Quran also does forbid one from marrying on conditional grounds, which by the way is meaningless. Have you read and understood the entire Quran lately?Peace!
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Your this very question defeats the purpose of the Quran in which you believe to be the word of God, especially when you come that strongly by saying "why should HE tell us".
Peace!Salaam Genteel
You're taking this question out of context. If you bothered reading the quote I embedded, this sentence comes from there and hence my question.
Have you read and understood the entire Quran lately?
Have you read my posts lately?
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Samia,
I'm sorry, but it seems you are defending your own convoluted response to Angel. Your response to her by questioning her as "Why should He tell us we should not marry them?" seems out of place and disregards HIS authority. Why would you even question as such?
You ignored the second half of my post. Would you care to respond?
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Qur?an is clear?
Atatoona alththukrana mina alAAalameena
26165 "Of all the CREATURES in the world, will ye approach males,Watatharoona ma khalaqa lakum rabbukum min azwajikum bal antum qawmun AAadoona
26166 "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"Sexual arousal is not all physical else it would be as satisfying a hunger like eating a steak dinner and with ?all? humans it?s mostly a mind thing (like having only soup ? slight joke here if anyone gets it?lol) usually the more forbidding the greater the eroticism hence all sorts of fetishes; infidelity (cheating), incest, pedophilia, tree-hugging, whatever.
It?s a matter of controlling and not acting on ?suggestive urges? which happen first and same with any addiction requires larger doses leading to greater perverse actions.
On DNA they are clueless ? today people are suggestively programmed from childhood especially boys to ?view? women as objects and even drugs like Viagra won?t work unless the ?thought? is there first to trigger other chemical reactions which controls plumbing.
Peace
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Whatever is left in The Last Revelation is a gift of freedom of choice.
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Whatever is left in The Last Revelation is a gift of freedom of choice.
I agree.
Samia my question was directed at Ra-Jah because from my understanding of his post he seems to be implying that it is forbidden to marry people who's gender cannot be strictly classed as 'male' or 'female'. Since he has such a view I want it to be backed with evidence.
I know most people are not born like that but it does not mean that it is an insignificant issue.
If someone marries someone like that it does not make them gay. And Allah did not forbid people from marrying them. It's a sin to forbid what Allah has not forbidden.
Transsexual men have had their penis surgically transformed into a vagina, I would hardly class them as men.
Many mainstream Muslims don't have a problem with having a sex change, in Iran you can have a sex change paid for by the state, now lets not be more 'intolerent' in our views on Islam then our Muslim brothers and sisters in Iran D.
peace.
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Trans-sexuals have an image about themselves that's different from what their body tells. It's not all about hormones, but genes have a share in that. One of the theories is that Ch. Y carries a tiny part responsible for the male image. Sometimes during the cross-over (first division of the gamet), this tiny bit is broken and lost. The person still has the Y ch and looks masculine, but their image of themselves is feminine. It's useless, and very cruel, to force them to stay masculine.
As for hermaphrodite, how do you know the dominant sex if they are 50/50? Usually the decision to settle upon a sex and not the other is delayed until the person knows their image about themselves, then the appropriate hormones are applied .
The influence of the society can also be of influence on our image. Women for example are "forced" (so to speak) into being more 'female' and not act/look like a man/male. With that I mean that women need to wax their legs, wax their armpits etcetera, simply because the society believes that a woman has to be hairless. This little example has a very big influence on the mind of a woman. So when a woman lives in a society wherein the women wax their legs/armpits, the women who don't do that will be looked weird at, because that's a 'law' that the society created and which has to be 'obeyed' by the women. There's no 'free will' so to speak, since the (mostly) negative influence on 'hairy' women changes the mindset of these females.
So how about a hermaphrodite? They get born with both a penis and a vagina.
I hope nobody takes offence on this picture, but let's look at it like most doctors do, as a research.
http//www.sexwoordenboek.nl/assets/active/hermafrodiet2.jpg
As you people can see, it looks like a vagina with a penis in the middle. We as common people with "normal" genitals can say that it mostly looks like a vagina and can influence the mind of that individual and basically force our opinion on him/her to believe that he/she is a 'she'/female, without letting that person discover for him-/herself what he/she is.
That's exactly what we do with plain people who choose to differ in their sexual interest. We force them into heterosexuality by claiming that the Almighty doesn't allow any other sexual preference, so most 'believers' claim that homosexuality is 'haram' (prohibited). Ru?ning the mental condition of people who aren't heterosexual.These matters are very complicated and should not be regarded as pervert desires. Science is still in its first steps to understand why and how. Many commit suicide because no one understands, or imagine their dilemma
I completely agree. If we call homosexuality a 'pervert desire' then we basically can call men with multiple wives also 'perverts'. Why can't they sexually satisfy theirselves with just one single partner? Is it really because they love all those women as individuals? Or is it because they love sex with different women?
It's a very complicated issue if you want to see it that way. To me it's quite simple; people simply differ in sexual interest. We're (thank the Almighty for that!) not created the same. Love doesn't only exist between a male and female, but also between a female and female, male and male. Didn't the Almighty already mention that we're created in "pairs"? To me that means that everybody has his/her soulmate in this life. It doesn't really matter where you will find it; in China, Africa, Holland... male, female... Aslong as you've found your soulmate where you find peace, tranquillity and most importantly, love.
Should it matter if that person is male or female?
Just sharing my thoughts.
peace
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Latifah
A brief examination of the Quranic verses will show that men are created for women and vice versa. As for creation in pairs, is that within context? Not really. If I remember correctly, men and women are also described as garments for each other. Something to that effect, anyway - 2187. Remember that with "pairs" in nature, we always have opposites. Electrons and protons, or electrons and positrons, male and female, left and right, so on and so on.
As for homosexuals being "born that way", I can testify personally to the complete opposite. The person I knew was born into a broken family with a possible history of alcohol abuse, born to a single parent, and so on. He was cultured in primary school to be effeminate, and well, he's a plain screwjob now. Probably mentally unstable (if you knew!). Mostly environmental factors. Notice, that this case comes from a direct opposition to Quranic principles. If I remember correctly, the Quran testifies to this, in that disbelievers/rejectors are made to increase in their wrongfulness. Exponential effect, if you will.
Hermaphrodites are a completely different case though.
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I agree.
Samia my question was directed at Ra-Jah because from my understanding of his post he seems to be implying that it is forbidden to marry people who's gender cannot be strictly classed as 'male' or 'female'. Since he has such a view I want it to be backed with evidence.
Salaam Angel
In fact what I undersood from Rajah's post is that he did not know the difference between homosexuals and transsexuals as per the verses he posted as evidence, and that his comment was based on objecting to same sex marriage, which I agree with. That was why I was confused by your reply and did not relate it to Rajah's post. I apologize.
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As for homosexuals being "born that way", I can testify personally to the complete opposite. The person I knew was born into a broken family with a possible history of alcohol abuse, born to a single parent, and so on. He was cultured in primary school to be effeminate, and well, he's a plain screwjob now. Probably mentally unstable (if you knew!). Mostly environmental factors. Notice, that this case comes from a direct opposition to Quranic principles. If I remember correctly, the Quran testifies to this, in that disbelievers/rejectors are made to increase in their wrongfulness. Exponential effect, if you will.
c'mon OPF we've heard it all before.
unless there is a MASSIVE scientific, sociological, psychological study which attests this fact; homosexuality should not be classed as some kind of mental disorder. Notice how all those reports that try to class homosexuality as some kind of mental disorder are actually carried out by Jews, Christians and Muslims? ;D
as for homosexuality being detrimental to society, I guess only time will tell.
peace
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peace
Homosexuality can be genetic. Everyone's born a certain way, our genes and our condition before brith determines affects our personalities.
All scientists are saying that people are born gay...well, to me, that's not anything new.Everyone gets turned on by different things, and sometimes it's people of the same sex. And sometimes it's little children.
The fact is that it doesn't matter which way you're born, because you can change yourself. I bet pedophiles are born that way too, but what they're doing is wrong and no one disagrees with that.
The question is, is homosexuality wrong? Well, unless it is harming people, it isn't wrong.
and it certainly isn't detrimental to society. How does it affect people if two men are in bed together? Unless they're going at it in public it's not a problem.I've heard the argument that a penis fits into a vagina, that's the way nature intended it, so that's what we should do, because to live good lives, we must be at harmony with nature. But I don't get why that's important.
From an evolutionary point of view that argument makes sense, because gay people certainly aren't helping with the advancement of our species. -
c'mon OPF we've heard it all before.
unless there is a MASSIVE scientific, sociological, psychological study which attests this fact; homosexuality should not be classed as some kind of mental disorder. Notice how all those reports that try to class homosexuality as some kind of mental disorder are actually carried out by Jews, Christians and Muslims? ;D
as for homosexuality being detrimental to society, I guess only time will tell.
peace
I have not read any reports into this sort of stuff (homosexuality isn't exactly something I care about), but my personal experience dictates that. Of course, it may or may not be the general case, but the only homosexuals I've seen were all born into broken families, or otherwise had problems with society. Chicken or egg?
Maybe gay people are those that God/nature has decided not to breed...
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From an evolutionary point of view that argument makes sense, because gay people certainly aren't helping with the advancement of our species.
Peace,
Yeah you are right and that make me think of the story of Lut again. Lut and his people lived in the beginning of humanbeings developments on earth and then it was important to spread our species and not indulge in lust for the same sex as they did.
But if we look at the situation today, it's nearly the opposite. Many countries have too big populations and it cause alot of problems and poverty. So these days we don't need to increase our species and therefore it's not a threat to be a gay. But as we also knows we only moving closer and closer to the END or the day of judgment and maybe therefore we don't see any gay societies destroyed etc as someone else pointed out before why God didn't punish gays today as he did with the gays among Luts people.
Well just some thoughts from me!
Majidah
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homosexuality is certainly not genetic, neither is pedophilia. We don't know much about genes, much of the information out there is inaccurate, genes do play a role (how much is controversial and debatable) but they are certainly not the cause.
Pedophiles are often victims of sexual abuse when they were kids, so they have a tendency to do what has to happened them when they were a kid to other children, dunno why, theories suggest that some of them might find it "normal" and so they do it to other children, or they may be plain stupid and believe that kids enjoy it, I remember reading a study about pervs being told that their victims do not enjoy the abuse and after being shown videos of abused victims describing how traumatic the experience was, many of the offenders did not repeat the offence.
I have not read any reports into this sort of stuff (homosexuality isn't exactly something I care about),
I ain't homophobic, but god is, and I wanna know why.
peace.
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The situation with people of Lut was in a way similar to ?behavior? in today?s prisons.
Think of it as trying to protect handsome youths from prisoners not born that way rather who gravitated toward vile obscene sex/violence without regard to morals.
It?s not what turns people on chemically or how they were born and unlike animals; people can be turned on by a short story, a ?suggestive? thought ? it all starts in the mind!
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Angel, genetics do play a role. Genetics and what happens to you before birth.
New-borns are not clean slates, they have markings on them already.
But the thing is that those markings can be changed, and they always are. We all learn from our experiences and that changes how we do things in the future.
So, we are born with certain leanings, but our experiences can bolster them or change them.
Our state is not permanent, we keep changing.