Marrying someone of the same sex?
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Peace everyone,
Here we go again.
@angel
GOD is not homophobic just as He isnt fraudophobic whilst punishing Shuaib's tribe with a similarly harsh punishment for indulging in weighing less. GOD knows what is dangerous for our species and whats not. We need to trust Him once we know Hes telling us something.
Now regarding male HS- The Quran with high probability appears to prohibit the act.
- The Quran is proven to be the Word of at least a Supreme Intelligence Who knew about the big bang and every living being being made from water about 1400 years ago. It would be ridiculous to assert that the One who knoews this wouldnt know about the sexual affairs of humans and their effects on them. Furthermore Code-19 supports that the Quran is superhuman.
- The Quran prohibits gambling, astrology and mind covering drugs whilst a couple of decades ago or even less most people didnt recognize much harm in those too. The Quran prohibits ALL THESE THREE in ONE VERSE. All of them came out to be harmful. ANother reason to trust the Quran.
- HS is due to a mixture of mental and hormonal factors. Some studies have shown that male HS have a smaller brain. Note Though it is not known whther this is the cause or efect of the hs activity IMO this is already showing that this activity could lead to a degenration of the human brain and thus take away our intelligence.
- The claim that animals indulge in male hs too and thus it should be ok is so ridiculous it aint even worth discussing. I guess rape, murder etc should be normal too then. Many primates indulge in rape and lions may eat their own cups if theyr hungry.
- There are already indications showing that male HS can be very harmful to the HUMAN SPECIES. Our species has the most delicate immune system. Failure to care for it probably may cause irreversible mutations passed on to out offspring. Note Theres no guarantee male HS would stay gay all their life. Whilst indulging in this activity their body is subject to mutations. Once any one of the partners goes back to being hetero, he wold pass on these acquired traits to his offspring. Anal intercourse, as addressed by Nun de Plume, is also very dangerous.
- Transsexuals and hermaphrodites cannot be compared to male homosexuals. Note Lesbianism is NOT mentioned as a part f the story of Lot and hence is not condemned in such a serious way. Ofcourse one can derive that is wrong as well by quoting the verse which states that man and women should guard their private parts EXCEPT infront of their PAIR PART(zauj), dependent or independent(ma malkat aimaanukum).
- Whther male HS is genetic or not is unimportant since there are many claims that ones tendency to rape, murder, steal are also factors which controlled partly by the genes. Yet if these activities cause harm to other individuals theyr wrong. Plain and simple. The problem is only that people dont recognize male HS as being harmful as yet. We should trust the Quran as this is exacly one of its functions i.e. to state before time what is right and what is wrong.
Hope this is clear now. GOD Bless!
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Very good post, Jonny_K, put it better than I could for sure.
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peace jonny, I have some complaints ;D
- The Quran is proven to be the Word of at least a Supreme Intelligence Who knew about the big bang and every living being being made from water about 1400 years ago. It would be ridiculous to assert that the One who knoews this wouldnt know about the sexual affairs of humans and their effects on them. Furthermore Code-19 supports that the Quran is superhuman.
It's not that hard to understand that all living things need water...every living thing I've seen drinks water, not a hard guess. The quran never talks about the big bang. You are misinterpreting the verse. Plus, for some reason we like to underestimate the people of the past, we like to think they were idiots who didn't know anything, just look at the pyramids and the non repeating patterns on ancient mosques and tell me that these people didn't know anything.
I won't even get into how ridiculous code 19 is, but even if it is a miracle, it only proves that the quran came from a higher intelligence, and that intelligence can be evil.- The Quran prohibits gambling, astrology and mind covering drugs whilst a couple of decades ago or even less most people didnt recognize much harm in those too. The Quran prohibits ALL THESE THREE in ONE VERSE. All of them came out to be harmful. ANother reason to trust the Quran.
Again, why do you assume that people living before the twentieth century were idiots? Sure, as our knowledge has increased so has our understanding of drugs and astrology, but that doesn't mean that people didn't recognize what harmed them and what didn't. If sensible people knew that gambling was harming them, they stopped, there's absolutely no reason to believe otherwise. Trust the quran, sure, but don't use "our ancestors were dumb and they needed a book to tell them obvious things" as an argument.
- HS is due to a mixture of mental and hormonal factors. Some studies have shown that male HS have a smaller brain. Note Though it is not known whther this is the cause or efect of the hs activity IMO this is already showing that this activity could lead to a degenration of the human brain and thus take away our intelligence.
What?!?
Even if we accept your outrageous claims, why does it matter that homosexuals are retarded?
If homosexuality harms people (individually and/or collectively) then it's wrong. Otherwise you have no argument.- The claim that animals indulge in male hs too and thus it should be ok is so ridiculous it aint even worth discussing. I guess rape, murder etc should be normal too then. Many primates indulge in rape and lions may eat their own cups if theyr hungry.
True. That argument doesn't work.
- There are already indications showing that male HS can be very harmful to the HUMAN SPECIES. Our species has the most delicate immune system. Failure to care for it probably may cause irreversible mutations passed on to out offspring. Note Theres no guarantee male HS would stay gay all their life. Whilst indulging in this activity their body is subject to mutations. Once any one of the partners goes back to being hetero, he wold pass on these acquired traits to his offspring. Anal intercourse, as addressed by Nun de Plume, is also very dangerous.
What??
What kind of mutations does homosexuality cause? I would like to know.
And how do we pass on ACQUIRED traits to our offspring?? Mutations will only occur if our DNA is altered, please show me how me having sex with a male would alter my DNA. Muscular parents don't have muscular kids, it's an acquired trait, and acquired traits don't get passed down, only genetic traits do.- Transsexuals and hermaphrodites cannot be compared to male homosexuals. Note Lesbianism is NOT mentioned as a part f the story of Lot and hence is not condemned in such a serious way. Ofcourse one can derive that is wrong as well by quoting the verse which states that man and women should guard their private parts EXCEPT infront of their PAIR PART(zauj), dependent or independent(ma malkat aimaanukum).
Why not?? The arguments you are using against gay men can be applied to hermaphrodites as well.
- Whther male HS is genetic or not is unimportant since there are many claims that ones tendency to rape, murder, steal are also factors which controlled partly by the genes. Yet if these activities cause harm to other individuals theyr wrong. Plain and simple. The problem is only that people dont recognize male HS as being harmful as yet. We should trust the Quran as this is exacly one of its functions i.e. to state before time what is right and what is wrong.
Hope this is clear now. GOD Bless!
True that genetic or not is unimportant.
But you are yet to convincingly show that male homosexuality is harmful. I would like a few examples.And where does the quran say that "to state before time what is right and what is wrong" is exactly one of its functions??
In fact, the quran says exactly the opposite, it says the quran contains truths that we already know.
So if homosexuality is wrong, it should be harmful in some way. If you can prove it is harmful, I'm with you. If you can't, and if the quran does prohibit homosexuality, then the quran is wrong. -
lol no I'm not saying that. I'm saying that IF (that's a very big if) the code 19 works the way submitters believe, then it only proves the existence of a higher intelligence. That higher intelligence could be god, yes. But it could also be an alien species of higher intelligence, possibly with bad intentions. Or it could be a bunch of nerdy little alien kids pulling a prank on us.
This fact renders the whole idea of proving the quran through such a code senseless, because in the end what matters is what the quran says, not where it comes from. -
Peace,
Just saw on Larry King about Transgenders. The psychologist was saying something about how some are born with a vagina but with testicle tissue, male hormones, etc. and how the physical gender isnt necessarily the gender that the brain goes on.
I personally think that so long you are true to your self, thats your gender, no matter what it physically says. Also, a lot of these people say that they have struggled and tried to be straight, but they cant. I dont understand how anyone can say, "Their not born with it". Obviously you dont know since you are not in their situation.
Peace
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Peace,
I know this has been discussed, but that was merely on the sexual level. I want to know your opinions on marrying someone of the same sex. For example, if you met someone that you thought was a female, you get to know the person, have many things in common, etc. but turns out its a guy. Some might say "Well you were deceived" but thats a simple answer to a complex problem IMO. If you have links to this person already its not that easy.
From what I know, the Quran basis it mainly on lust for the flesh and that alone. This isnt a problem that I have, but knowing the world today and some men can pass off as a women very easily, you never know. Also I personally am going to inshallah marry someone that is a God Alone person, but still, that person may be scared and not want to tell until the relationship is already too deep, and love is there already.
PeaceSalam.
And if it was normal for two men or two women to get married, how would human kind exist 1.000 years from now? It wouldn't.
Gays and lesbians don't see that they are endangering their own species. Sadly.
Peace.
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Peace
Salam.
And if it was normal for two men or two women to get married, how would human kind exist 1.000 years from now? It wouldn't.
Gays and lesbians don't see that they are endangering their own species. Sadly.
Peace.
Endangering our species? Have you seen how overpopulated we are? The amount of resources that we consume? If anything, they are doing us a favour.
Peace
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Peace everyone,
Here we go again.
@angel)
GOD is not homophobic
yes he is.
- The Quran with high probability appears to prohibit the act.
I know.
Some studies have shown that male HS have a smaller brain.
they were probably carried out by homophobic monotheists who probably have smaller brains then the people they were studying.
- There are already indications showing that male HS can be very harmful to the HUMAN SPECIES.
a complete load of BS
Our species has the most delicate immune system.
more BS.
Failure to care for it probably may cause irreversible mutations passed on to out offspring.
More BS
- Transsexuals and hermaphrodites cannot be compared to male homosexuals.
That is what I was saying all along!
EDIT Lobster if homosexuality is genetic then which parent passed on the gay gene? and does hs run in families?
peace
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peace Angel,
I don't know much about genetics, but I do know that scientists agree that when it comes to homosexuality, the environment that a person grows up in is not a factor. So it must have some genetic cause. It's not as simple as a gay gene...many times one twin is gay and the other isn't, even though twins have the same DNA.
So I don't know what causes homosexuality, but from what I've read, the consensus among scientists seems to be that it's nature rather than nurture.But again, people aren't stuck with the way they're born, everyone changes and everyone can change. So if homosexuality is a harmful "disease" it can be gotten rid of. But so far I've found that it isn't harmful at all.
here's something from a Discover magazine article
Whether or not a gay gene, a set of gay genes, or some other biological mechanism is ever found, one thing is clear The environment a child grows up in has nothing to do with what makes most gay men gay. Two of the most convincing studies have proved conclusively that sexual orientation in men has a genetic cause.
http//discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay/?searchterm=homosexuality -
Peace Samia,
we were told at school that genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. If it is gentic then it his highly probable that it is inherited.
Salaam Angel
While hereditary diseases/traits pass through the genes; genetic disorders are mostly caused by genetic errors during the first divisons of the fertilized egg, such as Down Syndrome, other trisomies (47 chromosomes instead of 46) or absence of a chromosome (Turner syndrome) or part of it (cri du chat). These are not hereditary because most of them result in children with significantly impaired fertility, and their causes are not known. So there is no scientific basis for not believing that homosexuality might be genetic.
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People have different "levels" of femininity and masculinity, that is obvious in everyday life. Some men are more feminine than others and same for woman (regardless if they are HS, BS or straight). I wonder what the statistics would look like if we could measure and plot these "levels". I know we can't, but one can wonder. Perhaps it all will come out neatly on the standard deviation curve, making this variation (being gay or straight and all other shades and degrees) very natural. God knows I guess.
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Lobster,
yes, perhaps you are right. I still feel however that this whole matter is not even close to fully understood by scientists. But maybe it is like you say, that sexual orientation has nothing to do with the level of femininity/masculinity... but if it has, in a way we haven't discovered yet, the whole thing might be like a gradient with some critical points where you shift sexual orientation. Anyhow, this topic contains subtopics, and I just don't have enough knowledge to make any special stand.
Peace brother
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peace Zulf,
True. And that's why we should just leave homosexuals alone unless they harm someone. Seriously, we have no reason at all to condemn the way of life of others unless they are harming others in any way. And certainly we ourselves have no reason to feel guilty if we are gay, unless we believe it is harming us. -
Is there an actual Quranic order either prohibiting them from marrying or otherwise doing what they do by means of an actual punishment as per theft, murder, fraud, etc? If no, then I think it's safe to say we can just get on with our lives and let nature deal with them. Homosexuality is only having a resurgance.
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Peace
In the quran I think it is clearly defined that marriage is between a man and a woman. Otherwise it is not a marriage, but a farce. If you marry a man who you thought was a woman I believe such a marriage is null, void. Sure there are issues with transsexuals, but these are men in the fisrt place who choose to be women. Clearly they are men in the first place. A hermaphrodite is another matter and whichever sex they choose to be is invariably up to them since it is a valid choice if they want to keep their female or male organs. However, the organs that are left should reflect the individual's true gender of course. If a hermaphrodite wants to be a man than a man he is, if a woman than a woman she is if it is right. A man is a man and a woman is a woman in any other case. I know in Hawaii it is a problem with alot of guys getting sex changes, but to me this is clearly a violation of God's design and an outright sin on that person's part.
Joe
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And if it was normal for two men or two women to get married, how would human kind exist 1.000 years from now? It wouldn't.
and imagine what would happen to the world if people of different races wanted to marry eachother! oh no!
how would human kind exist 1000 years from now?
how would two men or two women getting married stop a man and a woman getting married and having kids? human kind would surely continue existence, it always has up to this point.