General Issues / Questions

Peace 1CELOSTNOWFOUND, I don't see this as being immoral. Nobody is being extorted. He is talking about a society in which evry able person is required to contribute to society. If people contribute willingly, without being forced, then that's A-OK, but people should never be taxed. Tax is extortion because the government uses the threat of violence to ensure people pay their taxes. That seems immoral/unislamic to me. Where in the great reading are the believers commanded to force people to pay sadaqa or contribute to zakat? Nowhere. Yes, the god does warn people of Hell and of an upheaval in society if they don't do those things, but those are only the natural consequences of not paying sadaqa or contributing to zakat. The god tells us that idol worshipers will always do stupid things, that a society of idol worshipers will always be backward and that idol worshipers will go to Hell, but It doesn't tell us to persecute them. Do you get what I'm saying (I'm in a rush so I might not have explained too well)? Greed and idol worship are punished by the god's natural laws; no human has the authority to enforce those natural laws. My opinion is that people who want to benefit from an Iskamic society needs to be willing to contribute to that society. Be a bit more specific. People only benefit from three things peaceful trade, charity and force. Charity's okay and trade's dandy, but the use of force or the threat of the use of force are horrible! When AQ mentions that there is no compulsion in "deen", it does not mean that there is no compulsion & that's the end of it. No, I think it does. I think that there is no compulsion in the system one chooses to follow, but once you have chosen a system, you are compelled to follow that system by upholding its principles. I disagree. If you read 542-55, you'll see that every group is allowed to live according to its own laws and 2256 tells us that no one should be forced to follow islam. Muslims can choose to take other people as their awliya (which I very humbly believe should be translated as "Patrons" in 551 and not "Allies&quot, but are told that doing so would make them disbelievers. From your post it seems that you are a capitalist at heart One billion trillion zillion percent. And you might be surprised where I got my somewhat anarcho-capitalist beliefs. I don't describe myself as an anarcho-capitalist, but my humble study of the quran has lead me to conclude that the quran's political philosophy is very libertarian. I don't study the quran with a libertarian bias; the quran made me a libertarian. I learnt the word "Libertarian", the lingo libertarians use and about libertarian thinkers long after I developed my libertarian understanding of the quran. I lean more towards socialism. Socialism is all about subjugating people and stealing from them. It's a monstrous ideology that I think islam is diametrically opposed to. Either way, niether one compares with Islam. I once tried to initiate a discussion on this forum regarding whether the system of Islam has been better copied by capitalism or socialism, but there was almost zero response. Maybe this is the start of that dialogue. Imraan I suppose it is, but I won't be able to partake in this discussion because I'm really, really busy these days.

Cushan, You're signature warms my heart )

Peace Thats fine I was just saying that I never give my own interpretation as an answer or in a debate. I would only use it in a discussion so that we can work on it together and learn from oneanother. I would be interested to know how you view the verses. I would never call someone a disbeliever etc to their face but how would you describe someone who rejects the Quran's verses (not interpretation)? God bless What I am trying to say that we should define who is a believer and disbeliever from the Koran. The Koran says God made as as different communities, whether these communities are tribal, ethnic, national or religious. The Koran say 5.43. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. We ordained therein for them "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; And this (He commands) Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah.s purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious. Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. Here the Koran makes it clear that though the Koran, Gospel and OT are three different communities of believers, they are one in faith. There are believers among these communities and non believers. Sunnis take these verses as meaning theocratic laws in an Islamic state. There is the famous hadith in Sahih Muslim 'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported A Jew and a Jewess, who had committed adultery, were brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said What do you find in Torah for those guilty of adultery? They said We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hands on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. 'Abdullah bin Salam who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body. Of course this hadith is a fabrication(I believe, I have no proof). Why, because what would happen if the adulterers were Christians and the Gospel was used? There is no theocracy in the Gospel. It is quite clear the Koran is not talking about a theocracy where Muslims live by Islamic law and Jews and Christians by Christian and Judaic law, as the case in the so called Islamic state. The Koran is saying each community should take its religious laws from the scriptures and not from(I believe) the talmud, the Church and their trinity and the so called hadith of Muslims. This is because the religion of the scriptures are one, but they are followed by different communities. These communities have abandoned the scriptures for man made dogmas with each accusing the other of disbelief regardless of an individuals faith in God and the hereafter. It is clear the Sunnis could not bring a hadith of a theocratic nature regarding Christians so they brough a Jew instead to twist the verse to mean the law of man and not the law of God. It is clear that the same hadith could not have worked with a Christian and a Gospel. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. The Koran then say "To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way" So its not believing in the Koran that we should emphasize but what was revealed by the Koran. The religion of the Koran is the religion of all the scriptures. Yes the scriptures differ in detail and linguistic but they have the same theology. Which is what I have said before, the Koran is a Book of theology. "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (262, 569, and many other verses). "If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course, but many of them follow a course that is evil" (566). Our message to Christians should be to remind them about holding to the teachings of the Gospel and not the Church or any Christian denomination that adds a theology that contradicts the OT, Gospel and the Koran alike "Oh People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of God anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. Say not, 'Trinity.' Desist! It will be better for you, for God is One God, Glory be to Him! (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs" (4171). These verses in chapter 5 are very important in understanding the intended message of the Koran. To remind people to hold to the teachings of the scriptures. But faith is all about faith in God and the hereafter and we should define it in any other way but the Koran's way.

"Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?" (2130) Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? This is talking about the Solar system and not big bang. This is the problem with some Koranist who went to interpret the Koran in English and not translate the Koran to English. A translation is a linguistic process and not an interpretive one. I don't know why Koranist run away to the outside world and start translating the Koran and authoring books before even convincing the others of their interpretation. Thats why I think after all these years the Koranist persuasion is still minimal in exposure. There is no unity and everyone is acting individually. You would think a movement that started to emerge in the 1890s would by now claim a large share of at least the Muslim market. But there is no organization and no unity.

peace Code worshiper ??? ??? (who are those) The method in which God has protected the Quran is debatable. EXACTLY! Even the meaning of preserve is not universally understood but even more challenging is understanding the process of preservation.

peace Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmm hmm ! Your method on code 7 is unreasonable. It's not unique as you can do steps 1 and 2 then multiply by 6 and you will always get 6. This unlike the purpose of 19 in the Quran is not unique. I'm pretty sure that u already knew that though nope Peace ; Yes you can create codes as many as you like. It is a universal method. Regards

This (p17) seems to be the only break in the entire text. Can someone please give me a rough translation of the line before or after the break so I can identify it in the translation? http//tinyurl.com/qjgson OK does it begin after the break 'Our ancestors, may Allah be pleased with them, report that there was an island...'?

Yeah, I think so. Compare how stagnant and unexamined Islam and the Quran was just fifteen years ago. Before the internet, finding resources was near impossible. Now everything is within Googling distance. Yes, but will achieve results? I don't know about that. Koranist still don't have effective activism. But I hope so. I think the Koranist can do a lot to the world, but we just don't seem to have a voice till now. We have individual or group activities, we do not have an international organization and we are still unheard of by the majority of people.

Peace, Professor Samarrae'ey is not the host of the show "Who writes history?"

"A.L.R. These are the signs of the clear book" 121 I said theocracatic issues are not clear in the Koran and not the theological issues. It depends on how you see the Koran and if its what you mean it is then why do we differ? You are applying "clear" in every issue the Koran talks about. Well, good luck in understanding everything the Koran says.

Brothers nsws, almarh0m It is heartening to find two such like minded servants of Allah; I am denounced by my parents, my brothers, my in laws, my friends, my relatives near and far except a few I could count with my fingers. The bearded terrorists organization,the imams and mullahs have issued fatwa 18 years ago. But when the hindu community, and to a lesser extent christian community listen to the preaching of the righteousness they receive the Quran with fear and devotion; today, thousands of hindu families have accepted Quran in their life and their life style has changed towards Allah, the one and the Only who is All-In-One for them. They won't visit their temples any more; not only that, they had cleansed their homes of the deities and their pooja rooms are their happy living rooms. The 'muslims' who were visiting mosques listening to mullahs, are now good muslims after abandoning their mosques and their preaching of 5 times prayer at home while resorting to all time Remembrance in the Rahmath-Grace of Allah. The christians after following The Reading in the way they should Read and Recite, have said good-bye to their priests and churches and the new community as a whole are lovingly listening to Quran, heartily, far more judiciously and they now see the difference for themselves when they compared their new life to the past when they ridiculously followed the poojaris, mullahs, priests thus far putting their lives to waste all these days! A new community is on the rise here which shall wipe out all nonsenses in the prevailing so called religions for only the religious people shall replace them, soon inheriting the earth. 4 133 If it were His will, He could destroy you, O mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do. I even admonish the new generation of the following verse that if they too are to fall through the cracks, ungratefully for all that Allah had Graced them with, He shall replace them for even a better community. 47 38 If you turn back, He will substitute in your stead another people; then they would not be like you! My website http//foolproofcure.net/newsbulletin.aspx Peace. . Its True and happening. All praise leads to Lord, Lord of the Universe and we all pray Almighty and His God's blessings upon you and your new community who follows QURAN and being in Straight Path. Countless Proofs from you and your followers of Quran made our minds cooled with peace... Is there any words to describe?. We need Allah's help to describe the proof's whose proof spanning from birth to peace and faith heeling . And very Abrahim Path is taking place. Thanks for the Lord for your preaching it reaches our heart directly as the nature prostrates before GOD. God Loves who follow and practise Quran and Quran only. Jango O0

This is to be expected, and is discussed in many parts of The Quran. I think many people see differences as some sort of bad thing or a barrier which prevents something. Perhaps, but I know one thing, differences in opinion do not prevent one from doing good deeds, being charitable, telling the truth etc. In this is a sign to reflect upon. 2/05/02 A Muslim sister asked me if there were easier & simpler ways to study The Quran, as she was struggling understanding the English translation she had. She blamed this difficulty upon her "not very intelligent" self, I answered her as follows... "Your comments reminded me of a theory of mine... I personally think that intelligence can be divided into two parts, spiritual intelligence & academic intelligence. I consider spiritual intelligence to be far superior to academic intelligence. For example, if a man was very intelligent, high IQ, good grades etc but was not charitable/caring/honest etc (ie. low spiritual intelligence) and another man was only of average intelligence but very charitable/caring/pious/honest etc. (ie. high spiritual intelligence) I would consider the latter man to be of superior intelligence overall as spiritual intelligence is what will be counted in the next life, not academic... so dont be too hard on yourself, if you are on the right path, you are surely one of the intelligent ones."

Accidentally double posted. Delete option anyone

Peace Another problem I have with those Imams/Prayer Leaders/Preachers is that , most of them take payments whenever they have to attend social gatherings such as weddings , funerals , aqiqah , circumcisions etc by simply reminding people with verses from the Qur'an . We know that even the prophets and messengers mentioned in The Qur'an , men who were chosen by god to deliver His message never asked for any reward for doing their tasks as these ayats indicate " And, O my people! I ask you not for wealth in return for it; my reward is only with Allah and I am not going to drive away those who believe; surely they shall meet their Lord, but I consider you a people who are ignorant " ( 1129 ). and , " But if you turn back, I did not ask for any reward from you; my reward is only with Allah, and I am commanded that I should be of those who submit " ( 1072 ) . and " These are they whom Allah guided, therefore follow their guidance. Say I do not ask you for any reward for it; it is nothing but a reminder to the nations " ( 690 ). From the above verses alone , it is clear that none of the prophets/messengers who were specially tasked to convey and teach The Message to the people get any AJR from their effort , they all had real jobs to earn their livings . So what make these "Leeches" of Imams/Mullahs exceptions to this 'rule' ? Shouldn't these Imams , Mullahs , Preachers and Soothsayers get real jobs instead of living off people's ignorance ? Peace almarh0m

People who belive in Code 19, do NOT worship it. The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD. 7421 Then he looked 7422 Then he frowned and scowled 7423 Then he turned away in arrogance 7424 He said, "This is nothing but an impressive magic." 7425 "This is nothing but the words of a human." (NOTE You fulfilled a prophecy) 7426 I will cast him in the Saqar 7427 Do you know what Saqar is? 7428 It does not spare nor leave anything 7429 Manifest to all the people 7430 On it is nineteen 7431 We have made the guardians of the fire to be angels; and We did not make their number except as a test for those who have rejected, to convince those who were given the book, to strengthen the acknowledgment of those who have acknowledged, so that those who have been given the book and those who acknowledge do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the ingrates would say, "What did God mean by this example?" Thus God misguides whoever/whomever He wishes, and He guides whoever/whomever He wishes. None knows your Lord's soldiers except Him. It is but a reminder for people. The first verse 11 known as "Basmallah" consists of 19 letters. The Quran consists of 114 suras, which is 19X6 From the missing Basmalla of Sura 9 to the extra Basmalla of Sura 27, there are precisely 19 Suras Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists of 19 verses This first Chronological sura is placed atop the last 19 suras The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or 19X334 (6234 numbered verses and 112 unnumbered verses (Basmalla). 6234+112=6346. notice also that 6+3+4+6= 19 Why 19? The word "Wahid" itself, (one) has a numerical value of 19. W=6, A=1, H=8, D= 4. These are a well known values. and so on... for more info... http//www.submission.org/tampering.html Besides, do you think it is a coincidence that God did not sign the chapter (9) with a basmallah where the false verses were added??? Would God sign the chapter that contained/still contains (in some translations) the two false verses???!! Is this yet another "coincidence"?? Peace, brother salam, was it also mere coincidence that there was a real tree for adam and his wife to be forbidden from coming near it? it is obvious that a tree must exist before someone can be forbidden from it. now, can you or any one of the champions of what you call or refer to as "code 19" (a name nowhere to be found in the book the great alqur'an) explain to me what does the statement "and we have not rendered their count to be but a fitnat for those who" mean? sincerely khodr

Peace How long do you think before Code19 turns into some sort of " Islamic Scientology " sect ? To all disciples of Rashad Khalifa , please re-instate 9128-129 into The Qur'an where they rightfully belong . Peace almarh0m

Sister, with all due respect, comapre prophet Muhammad from The Quran with prophet Muhammad from the hadith books. I did it and discovered that person portrayed as prophet Muhammad from the hadith, is not Muhammad, let alone a prophet. It is a lie against the prophet Muhammad. However, if you read The Quran carefully, God willing, you'll see that prophet Muhammad is described very well in there, Thank God. Glory be to our God. peace. I understand what you mean as far as the negative portrayal within many hadith, as I can see this with the very few hadith I've already looked at (and I'm definitely not looking towards hadith as a definitive description of who he was). I'm just seeking a little more depth into who he was. I'm sure Quran gives the best description, all that I need to know, but I'm just curious about the things that aren't necessarily "need to know" in regards to religion. Though perhaps I've just not read the Quran thoroughly enough at this point to see everything that is there. My focus is usually more about the message when I read Quran, so maybe I'm neglecting the things within it that are pointing out his character. About music praising Muhammad The Messenger of God , if you enjoy it , continue to listen to it , but why only music about praising Muhammad but not the other prophets and messengers ? are you not aware that as believers we must not differentiate/discriminate from one messenger to the other ? What is special about Muhammad the messenger of god that he is singled out for this praise and adulation ? My intention is not to discriminate or differentiate between them. I'm simply learning about Muhammad as a messenger for the first time in my life, and so I'm naturally curious to know more about him in particular. Not as a way to put him above all of the messengers/prophets, but to appreciate him individually in a similar way as I've grown up learning about and appreciating some of the others mentioned in Quran (like Moses, Jesus, Noah, etc). Why don't your broaden your focus by only not focusing too much on Muhammad? No problem with this at all... though I am a little weary of some christian sources, not because of the praise, but because some of it speaks of the trinity idea and it is something I moved away from long ago. But should I come upon things that focus on others, I'm definitely interested in it as well. As far as music goes, there's just not as big of a selection in regards to others mentioned in Quran (at least that I've seen so far). My thanks to all. Peace.

Definition of god 1capitalized the supreme or ultimate reality as a the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe bChristian Science the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit infinite Mind 2 a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship ; specifically one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality 3 a person or thing of supreme value 4 a powerful ruler a. God. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being. 2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality. 3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol. 4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed Money was their god. 5. A very handsome man. 6. A powerful ruler or despot. a supernatural being, worshipped as the controller of the universe or some aspect of life or as the personification of some force an image of such a being a person or thing to which excessive attention is given the All Blacks are gods in New Zealand the gods the top balcony in a theatre

Peace, respectfully. God is testing us all the time, differently. We are 24 hours a day on the tes, this whole life is a school, we are learning all the time and we must pass this exam. God willing. Glory be to our God. Peace. I was looking for something more specific to this situation as Samia said she now understands what fitna means. PEACE

Salamun alaykum " O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end " ( 459 ) . Is this not a further proof that obeying "The Law of God" and 'the law of the land' as the focal point for muslims and believers ? Peace almarh0m