General Issues / Questions

Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He Who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?And those to whom We gave the Book know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so do not be among the doubters. Word for word translation from emuslim.com The book which was revealed to you through Prophet Muhammed (SAW). Just like the previous scriptures. Prophet Dawood (Zuboor) Prophet Musa (Tauraat) Prophet Isa (Injeel) Prophet Muhammd (Qur'an) Allah did not send the revelations directly to people. The message is always send through a Prophet and Messanger.

1951 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses for he was specially chosen, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet. Here is one more.

peace platinum, welcome to the forum People who treat other people as less than human must not be surprised when the bread they have cast on the waters comes floating back to them, poisoned. God bless you, peace.

Dear arnoldyasin, Thank you for info. I will first find the book you mentioned by McTaggert. It is correct that some scientific works are not readily available to the public, for many reasons. And there is also a certain amount of secrecy within the various fields of science. I may take you up on your offer later on, thank you again. Regds Ali Omar

peace, i will not vote because the united states is by far the most dominant country in this world. how do mankind define good and evil? i honestly do not know... the system practiced in the united states is not always constitutional.i am pretty sure the concept is same for other nations as well... if politicians like jefferson george washington existed today, i highly doubt america would not be respected in this world (america would be a loved nation).mistakes committed by previous presidents led america to hatred and violence...(vietnam war was a mistake...) communists hate democracy because of some of american foriegn affairs. america needs a liberal, pacifist president who iswell educated, liberal and constitutional committed pacifistic president who caould defend the homeland as well as benefit the world. no offense to bush administraion -X... america plays the vital role towards betterment of the world society...we need a very strong president who could really try to make the american environment as well as the image of america(the world nations) a better society to live... i know it is off topic, but the message itself is an important one, i am seriuos about this. if you study american history, then you will know how america diverted from the central message of the constitution(the american political quran/bible) peace, rifat

"Say "O people of the book! Come to a common term between us and you that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not from among ourselves lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back say "bear witness that we are Muslims"

Peace be upon you, I agree with what most are saying, continue to study and VERIFY information through life experience. Yes it is a long journey but well worth it.

Peace be upon you, I think the main messages of this proclamation(quran) are "Waking up" and "change", as with all divine teachings. Until one wakes up, they cannot make SEE that they need to change.

Peace taj. Excellent recommendations you make in your post... I recommend men keep a diary of their partners cycles,to prepare for the 'nuclear' fallout that can potentially occur every month.... ) its best to be aware before the actual 'launch' of the 'warheads'... D ;D rotfl

Salam Brethren ) Qur?n Verse 22-5 and 73 "Follow the Revelation Given unto you from your Lord, And Follow not , as Guide or Protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition". The above Verses are sufficient for me to Follow Qur?n and Serve God alone in Deeds to the best of my ability and as Sincere as I feel . Peace and Cheers almarh0m "he who Created me , It is He who Guide me ". peace fellow believer I couldn't agree more. Wonderfully put.

Peace all, Allah has promised to protect THE MESSAGE, not the literal each and every letter. That is why there are 10 versions of al-qur'aan with minor differences in letters and verse counts, but no difference in the overall message. Any code can only be based on counting letters, but can NEVER ENCODE A MESSAGE, as a message is not like letters that can be counted and codified. The same message can be given by 10 different sentences with different words and letters and in different languages that will still express the same message, even if they do not retain the code properties. On the other hand a text can have contradictory, illogical message and yet can have a mathematical code based on each and every letter, and such a code will accomplish nothing. Example is a "mathematical surah like unto it" at the following link which is "protected" by code 19 http//monotheism.faithweb.com/response.html Code 19 DOES NOT protect against ADDITION or DELETION of surahs or verses from al-qur'aan that have similar code 19 properties. That is a mathematical fact. For example, what if there were 228 (19 x 12) original chapters with many additional chapters that began with initials and had the code 19 property, and 114 of them were deleted ? or what if there were 133 (19 x 7) original chapters and 19 of them were deleted ? Or what if there were only 57 (19 x 3) or 76 (19 x 4) or 95 (19 x 5) original chapters and extra chapters were added to make up the total of 114 chapters ? How come code 19 of al-qur'aan has not been published in a SINGLE scientifically reputable journal. If it really had the wonderful statistical significance based on valid and consistent methodology, it should have appeared in a reputable scientific journal by now. A MIRACLE based on mathematics and statistics not even worthy of being published in a reputable scientific journal ? Does not make any sense. In summary NO CODE (EVEN IF IT EXISTS) can be used to protect even the literal number of words/verses/chapters etc. let alone a MESSAGE.

Peace brother Arnold, As you can see, the Quran explains here, that the earth is part of the heavens, the stars and all other formations in the universe. So this refers to all formations in the universe of stars and planet-bodies took 2 stages. There seems to be a problem with the underlined portions of your interpretation. Then He turned to the heavens, and it was smoke (dukhaan). So He said to it and the earth "Come with willing obedience or perforce." They said "We come willingly." As is clear from the above verse, when the heaven (al-samaa) was at the smoke stage, earth was already present. This clearly shows that the two spans Allah used to CREATE earth are TEMPORALLY DIFFERENT from the two spans used to make the seven heavens (samawaat) and stars (lamps) from one heaven (al-samaa). So those two spans for creation of earth and the two spans for making seven heavens and stars from one heaven are NOT TEMPORALLY SAME as you imply in your post but are SEQUENTIAL. Also "al-samaa" is mentioned separate from "al-ardh" so "al-ardh" cannot be part of "al-samaa" as you imply. My understanding is that in 419-12 Allah doesn't mention the first timespans of creation of "al-samaa" but mentions the two timespans required to make seven heavens and stars from one heaven AFTER HEAVEN WAS CREATED. These two timespans were TEMPORALLY AFTER the two timespans of CREATION of earth. The four timespans in which Allah stabilized the earth and established its provisions therefore, logically, OVERLAP TEMPORALLY with the two timespans required to make seven heavens and stars from one smoky heaven. The 4 timespans of stabilizing and establishing provisions of earth and the two timespans of making seven heavens and stars from one heaven are not part of the six timespans of CREATION as rightly pointed out by brother Andya at the following link http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5726.msg85926#msg85926

Peace all well, i wont ask you what danda means... ;D lk Great Elke, wise decision. But I wonder how that word sounds in German or Arabic? wink Regards,

Peace, Quote May he was merely rejected ! and he is also gonna reject being thrown in hell then? get real....You can reject an order, but not the consequences of the rejection. This is throughout the whole Quran...It is a methaphor that sjeitan, your rebellious doing and thinking doesn't belong in djenna, the higher thinking. In quraish arabic, it doesn't refer to a real creature, but your 'evil'side. This concept of a real creature, came through influence of the christians and persians. The you will say, i read it so in the Quran, nobody thaught me this. But you forget that you say in your surroundings that everybody around approached it as a creature. You never thought even that it could be a metaphor for your evil side. But then you will say; dear arnold; the sjeitan in the Quran talks! But then dear arnold says have you never used the metaphor; my haert told me this? my anger made me do this? Get ye down. directly refers to this= With enmity between yourselves. The enmity is what gets us down as a society..Is the same as saying; i'm going to trip you, by sticking my foot in front in of you....you're gonna get down, by enmity between you, this is how you're gonna get down... On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." Where in this verse does it say we weren't already on earth? It just reminds us that this planet will be our dwelling place for a while. Is the same as saying the town you're living in is your dwellingplace for the time being. Does this incline in anyway that you're not present already in the town? It depends on the glasses you look through people. The word for hell in the Quran is Gehenna, which is a valley near Jerusalem where they used to sacrifice people to an idol called moluk. Why do people take the burning literaly but not the place? Because then you also have to take the position literaly, people ending up in Gehenna, 70km SE of Jerusalem, that will be one crowded valley............ And of course people will post the skin burning verse, but then i have to remind you, that God a lot of times uses real things to direct to the metaphor He really meants. A good example is this surah, that tells about the burning of the heart as in columns.... 104 The Slanderer Al-Humazah Makki In the name of Allah, most benevolent, ever-merciful. WOE TO EVERY slanderer, back-biter, 2. Who amasses wealth and hordes it. 3. Does he think his wealth will abide for ever with him? 4. By no means. He will be thrown into Hutama. 5. How will you comprehend what Hutama is? 6. It is the fire kindled by God 7. Which penetrates the hearts 8. (And) vaults them over 9. In extending columns. Of course the real fleshy heart can burn and be penetrated, but i think we all agree here that it is used metaphorically........ The heaven and hell concept that is ruling most people, was formed by the egyptians and greeks. Then will people say, i read out of the Quran, what are talking about? I'll give again an example; when a sunni reads; obey the messenger, he reads, follow hadith. We read; follow the Quran........It all depends on what your concepts were when you grew up. Nobody ever thaught people to approach djenna and gehenna as metaphors, but as real places. This is why most people will fight the metaphor concept, not because it is not true, but because they're defending their pre-programmed concept. They can't even imagine it could be wrong....... Peace

ElkeWhat i wrote was based on the memory of the following verses And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me. (3.51) Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things? (2.107) When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals,- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not.(16.101) Ok. Well 3/50 above is talking about at-tauraat and an-injeel and not al-quraan. The other 2 verses, 2/105 and 16/101 are talking about signs, ayaat. Not al-quraan. Al-quraan never mentions its an abrogation of a previous book. Indeed, all messengers were given the same message (41/43, 46/9).

Salaamun alaikum, Sugar I can?t believe Nick Griffin got away with what he said, he is entitled to his opinion if he thinks Islam is a wicked religion and Britain is a multi-cultural mess however he had no right to spread blatant lies about Islam and what is written in the Quran. I?m sure even the ?Muslim? nutcases would condemn what Nick said about Islam. As for believing that Britain is a multi-cultural mess I find that ironic since my grandparents were asked to come to live here since there was a shortage of skilled workers, if they didn?t ask people like my granddad to come into this country Britain would not be as prosperous as it is today. The only valid argument the BNP have is that there are far too many ethnic minorities in the older generation who don?t know English and are not willing to learn, they once even hung up posters in Punjabi, Urdu, Mirpuri, Bangla, Hindi, Pushtu, etc which said ?If you can read this you are in the wrong country?, only one of my 4 grandparents have bothered to learn English and it?s dead frustrating since I have forgotten Mirpuri. What Griffin said about Islam such as 'maa malakat aymankum' being 'women captured by the sword', i.e. white women according to his own complexes is patently incorrect since al-quraan uses the phrase 'maa malakat ayamanuKUNNA' , people under the your (feminine pronoun) domain. The sad thing is, the so-called muslims are either unwilling or unable to move past their indoctrinations or attachments to history and return to Al-quraan in the proper sense. The people who came here, if they had performed 'iqamuddeen' or the establishment of ad-deen according to al-quraan would create a situation where if a person like Griffin were to speak up, he would be ridiculed and possibly harmed for such a blasphemy. My experience with 'ethnic minorities' in this country tells me that they didn't 'iqamuddeen' but rather tried to survive and thrive. Therefore, when one doesn't rely on Allah, Allah owes nothing to you. The first guy who carried the 'islam will dominate' placard was right if you take his statement literally but if i'm assuming he means muslims will dominate, I think that's just wishful thinking. Al-islaam has always dominated and always will because al-islaam is a cosmic principle embedded into the fabric of reality. Every nation who adopts even some God's principles will exceed those who don't at all. The west who currently dominates the world can be seen to have in place institutions which enshrine and engender al-islaam. It's only racist labels which prevent us from seeing this.

Group gatherings have already taken place in the UK. I wasn't there, but I know some who were. The outcome was mixed. To me, the key to move forward is very simple, but its important to come to this realisation for oneself. I agree. At the moment the realisation of oneself is very important. Hope the way gets more clear. Peace

Salaamun alaikum Enquirer et al, Peace all. I have just been thinking as to why SOME muslims get soo upset,vocal and animated,about any criticism or 'tough' questions regarding the prophet,quran,questions on pork,homosexuality,literalism,hadith,relations with 'non-muslims',the west etc.......but when it comes to condemning obvious terrorism (islamic or otherwise.) ,world poverty,aids,cancer,land mines,child exploitation,human rights violations etc....they are unusually quiet...I think this is a case of mistaken priorities,and not seeing the wider picture of humanities urgent priorities... What is happening? Peace all. Ps; does all the debating about 'arab' words immediately add to 'peace' in the world? The reason for this is that they have iconised Islam (an ethno-culturo-civilisational entity) instead of worshipping Allah. Muhammed ibn Abdullah is a symbol and has been internalised as their authentication as beings in the world. Therefore, when he is maligned, they feel maligned. I have asked this before, would 'muslims' have joined the stop the war marches if the country about to be invaded was Venuezela instead of Iraq? I think the answer is no and I think people who pacifists, socialists and the like are more sincere in their rejection of the Powers That Be. Debating about Arab words do not by itself add peace, no. However, one must be careful to make a distinction between action and uninformed action. To me, the study of al-quraan is the study of the writ of humankind. Humankind's being and becoming. When I know this and study it (paralell with acting upon my knowledge, of course), my actions will then be informed at least.

peace all, All creatures are a reflection of GOD?S INTENTION to create! Dogs are marvelouse and i am mostly amazed by watching colourful world of fishes. peace, Me too Alpha. It amazing how much is down there in the sea. We might never discovery the function of all these things. I think everything created has a role/function. Us humans are unique that we can deviate because of the free choice that we have. Thus the harmony of Gods system is affected, which we have the responsibility to improve (and this is our test). I also agree that there are natural disasters that we humans have to overcome. These I think is our function/prayer/worship whatever one calls it. We serve by bringing back in order of the disorder inflected on other species and that of our own by ourselves. Peace

?and I like the idea of keeping your shoes on. Whenever I went to our local mosque my feet used to get really cold. ;D