General Issues / Questions

Salaam, I believe that was already done a couple of years ago. Joe peace. who did what , when ?

Peace and welcome to the board. If you like, you may share your story on How you came to GOD Alone?

People, let's not get off-topic by discussing what it means to be called a Muslim here, or else I will have to drop a sentence to you all from the topic of this thread, Death Penalty. D Just kidding. Please stay on topic and take the spin-off discussions into another thread. Thanks.

Salaams All, I went to a party, and remembered what you said. You told me not to drink, Mum, so I had a sprite instead. I felt proud of myself, Mum, the way you said I would, that I didn't drink and drive, though some friends said I should. I made a healthy choice, and your advice to me was right, the party finally ended, and the kids drove out of sight. I got into my car, sure to get home in one piece. I never knew what was coming, Mum, something I expected least. Now I'm lying on the pavement, and I hear the policeman say, The kid that caused this wreck was drunk, Mum. His voice seems far away. My own blood's all around me, as I try hard not to cry. I can hear the paramedic say, This girl is going to die. I'm sure the guy had no idea, while he was flying high, Because he chose to drink and drive, now I would have to die. So why do people do it, Mum, knowing that it ruins lives? And now the pain is cutting me, like a hundred stabbing knives. Tell sister not to be afraid, Mum. Tell daddy to be brave. And when I go to heaven, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave. Someone should have taught him, That it's wrong to drink and drive. Maybe if his parents had, I'd still be alive. My breath is getting shorter, Mum, I'm getting really scared. These are my final moments, and I'm so unprepared. I wish that you could hold me Mum, as I lie here and die. I wish that I could say, "I love you, Mum!" So I love you and good-bye. From MADD (Mothers Against Drink Drivers) MADD (Mothers Against Drink Drivers) IS HOPING TO GET 5,000 SIGNATURES ON THIS, THEN PASS IT ON TO SIGN. When this petition has reached 5,000, please return it to MADD P.O. Box 541688 Dallas, TX75354-1688 1-800-GET-MADD (1-800-438-6233).

peace Andya, Confusion is good sometimes, it makes us re-evaluate our situation. But your statement that 'it is natural for humans to use their intellect' implies that almost everything us humans did that were never done in nature by any other creature before is natural! Of course other animals have not done exactly what we have done, e.g. plumbing/cars etc., but what they have done is primitive (on the whole, from our perspective) versions of what we do. Their application of intellect matched their intellect, our application of intellect matched our intellect. Perfectly natural for all species. For humans to use their intellect is perfectly natural. I doubt anyone could disagree with this. Many animals do this, but we do it on a much higher level. Since we do it on a much higher level, we test the boundaries, thus eventually application of our intellect may reach a point, where people think its become unatural, e.g. gene manipulation. Gene manipulation, to me, is not a clear example of something unatural. Whilst homosexuality for example, is clearly unatural (by examining body parts, procreation, etc.) Re ants. Yes, I could have picked a better example, but I believe the example demonstrated my point, which is detailed in the 1st paragraph of this post. Wakas

I can't believe that the lawyer showed a greater reaction to losing his Rolex than the damage on his Lexus. He doesn?t have his priorities right.

Peace It is from an article. but i knew the illustration from elsewhere, so i was searching the web for it and found it. I didnt pay attention to the article itself i must admit. Thanks for the link. Edit very interresting stuff. Same as it always been. sex drugs and rock'n'roll, and then applying the filth to spirituality and The God. Regards Noah

Peace wayoutwest & MA, Welcome and enjoy the discussion!

of course,a beard is what separates a man from a boy , or more importantly a man from a girl Ohhh so THAT's what makes us different from eachother. Weman are boys that havent got a beard?!. lol (psssst...i have seen a naked woman a couple of times, i will swear that those boys are sorta...missing something )

Thanks Layath

Indeed! And the Christians here are open-minded too and have respect for other faiths. So it is the company Like our regulars Apple Pie & Albion? roll

Salaams idm, i think the translator-original ,being a monk in the 11th centuary (who i now hear from some people was actually sent by the pope to translate the quran- if any have more information regarding this love to see it -thanks) having a firm belief in the bible put all these miracles in the translation ,But there where no miracles as such actually unless any firm believer here can proof it or show me one in the quran which isn't translatable with the aid of a dictioanary.And some of the stories depicted in the quran are from that single source aswell- as i think Allah said somewhere the people wern't aware of such stories before they came to the people from Allah So they couldn't be the exact same stories as the bible in any case and as they are depicted as such so there is something wrong in their translations. May be i am wrong though - but this is my present view. Gods Blessings.

Salaam, Well I've seen too many other cases where the .net, .org etc will be taken by other groups who want to sabotage the message of a website by taking traffic that either gets there by accident or search engine. Eventually though the sites may have different information. So the .info may have information on the message (ie. the existing content), the .net may be for networking of people, and .org would be organisational. Alright cool. I think it's a good move. Joe

Hello Saladin, what attributes of God mentioned in the koran do u think are unreasonable ? the attributes very simple and straighforward . what attributes besides the are u trying to understand about God using ur reason? Have you compared Koranic descriptions of "God" with Buddhist descriptions of Nirvana? Or the Mystics encounter of the Divine? You will see Saladin they are very similiar! What does that tell us about the reality of God? and how can u say God is "wordless reality" ?! Try meditation Saladin, then you will realise there is another level of perception which lies beyond ordinary "rational" thought processes... why do u follow their opinion . which of their opinion u think are more reasonable than the koran ? Come Saladin, if Great Seers, Sages, Prophets, Meditators and Mystics say the same thing about the reality of God which is also in the Quran - what does that tell you about the human experience of the Divine? to understand the attributes of God in the koran is very easy. it takes no einstien to understand them . i think u would agree with all the attributes of God in the koran . Hey Saladin, suprisingly enough, so would the Great Seers, Sages, Prophets, Meditators and Mystics! -) so again I ask you what does that tell us about the nature and the human experience of God? we are not able to understand God fully ofcourse... That is the challenge Saladin. To use our REASON, INTUITIONS and IMAGINATIONS to develop an understanding of GOD that goes beyond SCRIPTURE. This is the way to spiritual and intellectual growth as an individual. Obedience to scriptural rules will not make you grow Saladin, spiritually or intellecutally. after that what is important are the laws that God has created for us . the laws that we must apply in this world in order to be successful . what better way to teach those laws except by language ? we are not able to understand God fully ofcourse , but His laws and system are not a ?wordless reality? . he teaches us those laws through his scriptures . what do u say ? But I say to you Saladin again that the language of the scripture is that of the 6th Arabia, the Morality of the scripture is the morality of the 6th century Arabia. That is why you get "spoils of war" being distributed amongst the victors. That is why the victims of war becomes your "Right Hand" possesion that can be made into slaves and concubines. This kind of Morality is unacceptable in this century. Are you saying we should apply this kind morality in our present century? how can u say this ?!! koran does not indicate even slightly any such thing like this, that the koran is the word of muhammad !!! the Koran makes it clear that Muhammad did not give his own opinions in the Koran , but the koran is the word of God . back your words. You can't justify this using Koran itself Saladin. If the Koran itself says it is not the word of Muhammad, how can you be sure? Does mere claim that it is not word of Muhammad make it that it is not the word of Muhammad? That is the catch isn't it Saladin? There is no getting away from this. You either have faith in it or you don't or you use your own reason, intuition and imaginations to develop an understanding of God that goes beyond scripture... Again how can u say such things?! what was the purpose of the "encounter". what do u think ?! to let him misinterpret the revelations of God ?! You have no idea how religious experience comes about do you? It comes from meditation, contemplation and reflection. It is these things that Muhammad used to do in his Ramadan retreat according to traditions (I know you may reject all these traditions as basis of religious doctrine and thats ok, but they provide some historical insights how the revelations came about, and so do the experiences of the Hebrew Prophets, Seers, Sages and Mystics provide further insights into the nature of the human experience of Divine). You enter the Divine Realm when you go beyond yourself, when trascend language and reason in a "meditative trance" - this the wordless reality that we call God. The only way to verify that there is a another level of perception from the ordinary rational thought processes is to practice meditation, reflection and contemplation... Regards,

Hello Natu, You really are the definition of free-mind arent you?! Well, thank you very much -) But always remember, don't let anyone IMPOSE their free-minds on you! When people deny your reason they undermine your human dignity... Anyway, I think it would still be a good idea to help raise awareness. I don't think Antar is trying to get the debating person to see the truth publicly, but rather he is thinking that it would be a good idea to use such activity to increase awareness ,to kind of kick start the free-thinking wink . Good man Natu and that is a good thing to do. And you have understood my concern... Regards,

Salaam all This occured to me while I watched "Million Dollar Baby". I for one moment put myself in that boxer girl's shoes, how would I feel if I had to live my life confined to bed. I thought that I probably would want to die, too (I know it's prohibited but I'd beg for God's mercy and do it). Because you're dependent on people around you, and a burden for them. you can't walk by yourself, you can't eat, you can't go to toilet, you can't change your clothes, you can't change your lying position. you just hardly breath (on life support). I wanted to know what would you do A. If a paralysed person that you love wanted you to put an end to his/her life (may God forbid)? B. if you were to spend the rest rest of your life lying still in a bed (May God forbid)? Sorry for disturbing questions by the way ) Its a million dollar question and i have no answer. Perhaps im twisted, but i would prefer to be put out of my misery, given the situation you draw. And the other hand, who are we to know or tell if its a good life or not. Its tough. There was a case in US just recently where Terri was killed with government approval. In a natural state of b eing she would have died a long time ago, all that kept her alive was machinery. So if power was not avaible, God would have taken her a long time a go, on the other hand. Now machinery ARE avaible that kan sustend the life of someone who would obviously have been dead.....sigh down with modern society, we put ourself in too many moral dilemmas with all the flaming toy's the devil provides us with, especially those that at first glimpse seem good. Peace Noah

Peace LoteTree, all, I am not sure why you keep referring to "scripture" as "a truth", when you don't hold such a view in your statements. To be more accurate to your views, you should say that you believe "scripture" to contain "some truth", or that it "was the truth". peace

Peace all Hey Natu, i was breaking my head over the "nightgroup". Could someone tell me what the arab word used actually means, the same with the other names. I dont wanna go on a wild goose chase here. But if the correct traslation is nightgroup. Perhaps this is what nightgroup are; http//1scom.net/~kjblackford/constellations/leo-star-map.gif The constalations of the zodiac. Groups of heavely bodies visible at night. nightgroup. But now we are out guissing in the wild. Please someone, tell us what the original meaning of the words used are. reagrds Noah

Peace all, For more comments regarding 'leftys'... http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3221

peace all I too think icke is putting forth some halfbaked arguments, and i think it is to sell his newage relegion that makes everybody God, wich would make him part of the misinformation league.. If you want to get more into it here is a good starting point. http//www.hermetics.org/ebooks.html However it is important to look into what runs society, and has shaped it the way it is. And the symbols tell a tale if you now how to decipher them. As for the reptillian brain, thats a viewpoint, but none of us knows. It could be another race aswell, being that they where created before man. So first God created man with a reptillian brain and then he regretted and created man with a mammal brain? I dont get it? Im open to possabilities, and try not to get stuck with any one explanation that i cannot confirm for myself. reagards Noah